yiming

True. But this applies to those who have the ability to live faultlessly without following a book. The rest of us are compulsive bookworms and you are stuffed with knowledge on the Tao scripts like a walking Wikipedia.

Well, the man has said it. What do you think?

I thought that the basic purpose for studying the Chinese Classics including the Tao Te Ching is to learn how to live the right way. (學做人)

老師，我在這裡。我的名字是易明。我想學習中國古典語言。

Let me ask you this. 大盜 與 小偷 孰 親？ What you perceive as "fast reaction" is spontaneity to me. If my way (道) makes me miss my target, then point out where I am off the mark. Is that your way (道) ? If one is intent on following one's nature, then why bother to ask questions?

It is not a crime to have higher understanding or insight. But is it ok for Flowing Hand to speak of the Tao (even though it cannot be told) in his own words and offer that as Chapter 52 of the Tao te Ching? This is worse than plagiarism. This is standard, knock-off, "made-in-China" fakery offered as original, branded 難 得 之 貨 . Why are you condoning such felony? Chapter 3 (Original attributed to Lao Tze) says: 不 貴 難 得 之 貨，使 民 不 為 盜 . I told Sifu Chi that this would happen! Lao Tze, in making the Tao a 難 得 之 貨, has turned Flowing Hands into a typical Chinese crook 盜 stealing intellectual property. "Flowing Hands" makes a great classical Chinese term for a pickpocket.

I am still perplexed at why you disallowed my translation of 則 無 不 治。 You know that classical Chinese is vague and lends itself to various interpretations. Take Chapter 52 for example. Just compare your translation to Flowing Hand's below. The two are as different as 天 and 地. Sifu Chi's Translation: Chapter 52 1. The beginning of the world was considered to be the root of all things. 2. If we've discovered its root, then we'll recognized all things. 3. If we recognized all things and held on to its root, 4. Then, there will be no danger throughout life. 5. Block its gap to desires, 6. Close its door of desires, 7. Then, there will be no disturbance throughout life. 8. Open its gap to desires, 9. Increasing its distractions, 10. Then, it cannot be helped. 11. Observe it microscopically, it was said to be comprehensible. 12. One can guard its softness was said to be strong. 13. Utilize the light(of wisdom), 14. It was considered to be the inner wisdom. 15. To keep one out of trouble, 16. It was considered to be practicing the normal principle(tao). Flowing Hands translation: CHAPTER 52 The Ten Thousand Things are born of the Universe, the Universe is born from the Dao. From whence the Dao came from, I do not know, but I know it exists. It is the Mother of Heaven and Earth. In silence and in the void the Dao formed Heaven and Earth. The Ten Thousand Things are formed by it. In silence and peace, one can feel and sense the mystery. Be forever at one, do only what has to be done and then remain at one.

Let's not be gross, Jeff.

Ok, I'll take your word for it and find out how much elbow room there is in this sandbox.

I wish. Even in the land of the free - America - you'd be wise not to do that.

I see. It would be helpful if Flowing Hands made it clear that it was not Chapter 52 (Tao Te Ching). Not everyone who comes to Tao Bums wants to be a part of an initiated gang - a townie - who knows who is who and what is what. Or is that a Tao Bum " be one of us or get out" condition for joining this site?

How come your Chapter 52 is not the same as Gia-Fu Feng's Chapter 52?

and thanks for sharing your views.

Well, then the average Dharma teacher will just have to go to hell. Next life, he gets another shot.

This "silence" is the absence of sound. I was told that there is a silence in which there is sound. Would you buy that? What about those thoughts that are not troublesome? Would they count as contents of your mind?

I see. You are using the idea of Mother Nature as the basis for your female principle. I wonder who coined this term "Mother Nature". Interesting.

Why do you regard "giving without taking" a female principle? Can you define "female" within the context of this topic?

Oh, we are good then? Great! I know that you have reverence for the Tao Te Ching. I will take care not to treat it with irreverence in class. We are studying classical Chinese, ok? I am like Sun Wukong. I like to cause havoc in Tao Heaven chasing Jade fairies like rene and fighting Jade warlords like dawei. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYZmv8upiGY

You obviously feel Sam is pretty well spot on. He is persuasive and I can't find a flaw in his argument. What I find suspect is his motive. Where is he going with this? Pointing out to us that hugging Teddy Bear is a neurosis is his schtick. Does he think that giving up Teddy is the cure? Sam may not be hugging any soft toy. His neurosis is trying to get us to drop ours.

It is the same with falling for women. At first sight, they all are profound; afterwards...you'd said it.

Ok, Sifu Chi. Looks like you are throwing me out of your Classical Chinese class. Sorry, the Tao Te Ching that can be taught is not esoteric to me. At best, it is great literature to be studied as a work of art in the use of the Chinese language. You have been a good teacher. It is a pity that you won't accept a student who won't bow to the Tao.

"wu wei" is untranslated Chinese. Similarly, Tao is not an English word. But when we use such unintelligible terms in the English language, we are creating fuzzy "english" words and assign them mystical Chinese concepts. What is the point to that? wu-wei (無 為) to a New Yorker simply means "don't give a rat's ass". So, if I want to make your idea of 為「無 為」，則 無 不 治 intelligible to a black thug contemplating armed robbery, I would just say, " If you really don't give a rat's ass, there is nothing that cannot be done.

Why not? Direct word-for-word translation of 則 無 不 治 is as follows: Thus (則) none (無) not (不) cure (治). If you can interpret the above to mean "Thus nothing that cannot be cured, Why can't you accept "Thus no cannot cure"? Surely, 不 治 can be treated as a noun meaning an uncurable malaise or situation such as getting killed in an earthquake.

It can also mean no unavoidable misfortune; such as, no encounter with an adverse life situation that is beyond control. If that is admissible, then allow me to modify your translation as follows: 14. Trailing to a natural path, 15. Thus no uncontrollable (misfortune happens). Would you accept that?

I was just making an exclamation like "mama mia!" and have no intention to divert from the thread. At any rate, I don't have the stomach for Taoist Cathechism. Thanks for the direction anyway.