Kirtanman

Hi TI & All,

 

Hi Mokona,

Yes, it is a good sign, and yes, it takes some getting used to when this happens. I think it is harder to identify vivid sounds for me because I'm more of a visual person and to me, a sound is just a sound. I guess it could be louder, or more crisp. I have heard some bells, electric gongs and other various sounds in my right ear, espescially before going to bed but that was before I was practising increasing vividness..

...

 

 

TI

 

Hey, TI -- when you're not practicing Argumentative Buddhism ... you've got some interesting and insightful stuff to say. As always, actually - but I was impressed with this reply - I haven't read much of what you've written since 2009 or so. Good stuff.

 

One of the reasons you've never seen me talk about vividness, specifically, is because I'm not familiar with a lot of Buddhist terminology, and this post helped me to be more clear on what you're referring to, with the term vividness.

 

I'd much rather share useful information than debate, for several reasons, including that, at heart, you and I, and pretty much everyone here, I presume, is about that which is beneficial.

 

Thanks again; good post.

 

 

 

Kirtanman

Hi TI,

 

Your sig. file states:

 

Rest the mind in the natural state, without distraction, without grasping or aversion.

 

That's a statement I can, and do, agree with completely. All that's pertinent with respect to the natural state, in my experience, is our own perspective and experience, right now.

 

All concepts, opinions, revisiting of the past and opinions about the past, ideas about the experiences of others, and so on, all fall into the categories of distraction, and/or grasping or aversion, I would say ... and so, they are not of interest to me.

 

Per your sig. file, I'm not so sure why they're of such interest to you.

 

All The Best,

 

Kirtanman

 

Hi TI,

 

It's been a while; I hope all is well with you.

 

 

You made a few statements about me (quoted below) where it seems like some clarification might be useful.

 

Hi Serene,

 

 

The second quote you quoted is from Kirtanman, who is a member from AYP, who runs his own "sister AYP site" and pushes Yogani's books (affiliate program for kickbacks? ). Notice his last statement of " as some of us can attest"? Kirtanman is a self-declared enlightened person. He makes it a point to tell everyone that he is enlightened and that AYP enlightened him.

 

The website in question, Living Unbound, is not a sister website to AYP; the two websites simply have links to one another. We recommend Yogani's books, along with quite a few others, in the website bookstore.

 

I actually don't recall the last time I had a specific discussion along those lines, and I don't recall ever having one exactly as you imply in your statement quoted above -- understanding, of course, that opinions and perceptions vary, as opinions and perceptions will do.

 

Why do you imagine omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence as being requirements for the natural state?

 

As far as I know, the definition of enlightenment I've used, and continue to use, is the same definition used by many recognized teachers from various traditions, including teachers from the Kashmir Shaivism tradition, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi, Adyashanti, and other teachers expressing similar views of the natural state.

 

 

So, no rainbow body, no walking through walls, no clairvoyance or any minor siddhis, just a ludicrous statement and self-absorbed arrogant attitude, a redefinition of enlightenment and a denial of the classic characteristics of the truly enlightened beings throughout history. .

 

And ... so?

 

Why do you imagine the rainbow body, walking through walls, and siddhis, as being requirements for experience of the natural state?

 

They call it the natural state for a reason.

 

This is no definition of enlightenment, or liberation! If is was, then why bother?

 

Well, the (literal) freedom beyond imagination, the ongoing peace, and the living in, from and in harmony with reality are all pretty good.

 

 

 

No wonder there are so many people from AYP who think they're enlightened!

 

Anyone who thinks they're enlightened .... isn't.

 

Thinking has nothing to do with realizing the natural state.

 

The natural state, or what I tend to refer to simply as wholeness, these days -- or enlightenment, or liberation -- are all just words - terms for recognition of the real which is always present, now -- and is simply obscured by the over-focus on conditioned thoughts, feelings and reactions.

 

If there is attachment or aversion or non-peace, then there's obscuring of the real in that moment of experience.

 

By over-focusing on conditioned forms of mind - by attachment to them, as driven by conditioned memory - we make up unenlightenment.

 

"Enlightenment" is simply what's here when we don't do that.

 

You seem to have kind of declared war on AYP.

 

What's up with that?

 

By the way, for what it's worth, I highly recommend Alan Wallace, too.

 

He's quite awesome.

 

All The Best,

 

Kirtanman

 

Hello All,

 

I'm Kirtanman, a long-term practitioner of Advanced Yoga Practices (AYP), the system started by Yogani, which is discussed at times here at Tao Bums.

 

Per my "moniker", I'm also a fan of, and participant in devotional chanting from the Indian traditions, aka kirtan.

 

I also resonate with various teachers of real-world enlightenment, such as Adyashanti and Jed McKenna.

 

I look forward to participating in Tao Bums discussions.

 

Thanks,

 

Kirtanman