dao zhen

On 2/10/2010 at 11:35 AM, Aetherous said:

 

Question to everybody...

 

I wonder why the small circulation is taught first. Why not just do the grand circulation at the same time?

 

There are so many different practices and approaches - even though some may use the same names such as Dantian or Small Heavenly Cycle, the method, or approach and even underlying theory can be quite different...

Some are from a Qigong lineage, others maybe from the Martial Arts branch - and also half teachings, or things made up... 

 

I can not try and say I know an absolute way or the 'correct' way - but I was taught in a living manner in China, and have had wonderful personal experiences and development - which in my opinion exactly mirror what I read in many of the old books and classics.

So I am replying as my Teacher taught me, which is from the branch of practice often called the Taoist 'Immortal Tradition' - and also from my personal experience in Self Practice.

 

My Teacher spoke that generally there are two paths found when we get into the realm of Taoist Inner Alchemy Practice:

 

1. - Following the Path - using technique, or distinct methods to try and force or create a result or outcome - this is what we usually find in the public - and even with many masters - technique and method based - can be use with direction of the Mind Will, Visualisation Methods, and a method seeking a specific outcome or result (having an intention to 'do' something and also to 'gain'..

 

2. - Reversal of the Path - this was how my Teacher trained me - it is thought of as the way from the Immortal School, and is a living process which you begin or 'turn on' through following specific preparation practices (some of which are physical based) - and then the process is engaged usually in a retreat setting - sitting for specific periods of time - over specific lengths of time - there is much work to purify the Heart and also to reside in the Empty State... 

 

The problem with the Path of Reversal and why most just practice technique methods was as my teacher said, "To follow the Way of Reversal depends on Purification and Transformation of the Heart.  Most do not want to face their Heart, and go through the process of Purification and Transformation.  Most wish to seek Power, Skills and Ability through the use of the Acquired Mind Will..."

 

If we look at the two Circulations in a very general manner - 

 

* the Small Circulation is at the stage of - 'Transforming Jing to Qi' - 
* the Large Circulation is at the stage of - 'Transforming Qi to Shen' - 

 

The way I was taught - the Small Circulation is performed in a cross leg posture. 

The Large Circulation we perform lying on the back.

 

After finishing the Large Circulation stage, we sit back up in the cross leg posture once again.

 

The basic view of the course to take in practice is as outlined :

 

* Use the form of Body to Replenish Jing *

* Transformation of Jing to Qi *

* Transformation of Qi to Shen *

* Transformation of Shen to Emptiness *

* Transformation of Emptiness to Gain Union with Tao *

 

In my tradition we go through a process to first gather and harvest the External 'Yang Qi' in the Dantian,

after going through the process of Tendon Transformation and Opening all of the Meridians. 

At this stage we also go through a process to recover the lost Jing Qi.

 

The gathering and harvesting of 'Yang Qi' is often termed the 'Gathering of External Medicine'.

 

It seems from looking at things in the public this aspect of the practice is not so known or talked about - or just some part is understood....

 

So people will be working with what my Teacher termed - 'Mental Energy' within the 'Realm of Mind' - 

rather than cultivation and developing the 'Yang Qi', within the Realm of No Mind or residing in the Empty State.

 

As my Teacher said, 'Yang Qi is the one which will spiritualize a person, heal the disease, rejuvenate the physical body, and begin the process of Becoming an Immortal.  

 

When the Yang Qi becomes full in the Dantian, it begins to move and stir and there are very exact signs which present themselves, so one may know the time to move into the next step - which is the Circulation of the Water Wheel or the Small Heavenly Cycle (MCO).

There were three stages of the Small Circulation as I was taught - 

 

Before these Three Stages, one may often be taught what my Teacher termed - the Mind Circulation - or Acquired Breath Circulation - 

(this was called the 'False Circulation' or the 'Untrue Circulation' by some other teachers I met later on.)

my teacher taught some exercises, but they were not stressed - just out of the traditional learning he taught them,

the aim is to gain a state of mind and a transformation of Heart - so the circulation takes place naturally and automatically. 

 

*Three Circulations of the Small Water Wheel: 

 

1.  First Circulation of the External Medicine.

2. Second Circulation of the Inner Medicine.

3. Third Circulation of the Inner Elixir 

 

Depending on one's attributes they are born with and ability, they can do one or all or even none of these stages....

Everyone is different, with different inherent conditions and qualities they bring in at birth...

 

Between the First and Second Circulation is the Incubation period - in this stage of constant stillness practice, the 'External Medicine' which has transformed and purified in the Small Circulation, is nurtured and transformed in the Lower Dantian to become the 'Inner Medicine'.   When this is complete, there will be the Circulation of the Inner Medicine in the Small Heavenly Cycle route.

 

In general, to think deeply on these subjects - 

 

* there are methods based around and designed to work with the physical body.

 

* the Immortal Method or the Path of Reversal seeks to work within the Realm of the True Body, sometimes called the Dharma Body, and not the physical body.  The practice and process is taking place not within the physical body or the physical realm -- though as the changes in cultivation takes place within the Dharma Body - there is like an echo which emanates and ripples through the physical body - thus the physical body goes through some changes, transformations and there can also be sensation experiences at times within the physical body....

 

Practice is so rare to come across, so whatever you may find - be thankful - and approach it with a pure and sincere heart. 

 

Even a very simple method, if approached with deep sincerity can yield wonderful experiences...

 

Blessings and Good Luck on your Journey....

 

*** We now seek to share some of our experience online with those who like to practice - and are having gatherings to practice by ZOOM - you can find the details on our website at - http://www.ImmortalArts.org - 

 

 

"Change....

Both inception and transformation,

relies on Qi – Vital Life Force Energy...

There is no being in the cosmos which does not originate from it.

Thus Qi envelops the cosmos from without,

and moves the cosmos from within.

How else than by Qi can the sun, moon, planets and stars shine...

How else than by Qi ,

can thunder resound and rain, wind and clouds be formed...

How else than by Qi can all beings take rise, mature, bear fruit and withdraw in the course of the four seasons....

Humans existence too depends upon this Qi,

the Vital Life Force Energy...."

 

~ Yellow Emperor's Classic on Inner Medicine

 

The question to perhaps first ask ourselves -- "What is Qi...?"

 

We can see from the Yellow Emperor's words - Qi is all things -

knowing this we may also ask, "What is the relationship of Qi and Tao...?"

 

Qi is like an Agent, sent out from Tao to fulfil various tasks and jobs -

Qi has it's own consciousness, it's own intelligence...

 

Qi can take many shapes, and forms and qualities - this depends on the frequency - the lower frequency, Qi can become dense and form matter, the higher the frequency, Qi can become expansive and spacious - all is simply Qi - Qi is Nature....

 

Then why all of these Arts and Exercises to Cultivate Qi...?

 

The Human has separated from the Nature, we became Un-Natural....

 

This is where it can be important to ask, "How to return to Nature and what is Natural...?"

 

Often times, much of the arts and practices we find being termed - 'Qigong', 'NeiGong', or this and that, may not have within their design and parameter the Aim to bring the Practitioner back to Nature and what is Natural...

 

The Human often wishes to gain power, rank, and all manner of material things....

 

This desire has influenced many systems and method of practice we find....

 

In cultivating Qi, we must look at what are we really doing, and what are we cultivating....

 

In the Way I Practice and was Taught we Cultivate the Qi of the Great Nature...

 

This has it's own aim and direction, which outlines how we approach practice.

 

In other methods the Qi being cultivated is much more like Qi of the Mind or Will, and is in some way attached and influenced by the Ego Nature...

 

In cultivation of the Qi of Great Nature we have the idea and aim to let go of the Small Ego Self, and embrace the Great Nature.

 

"When there is the ego nature,
I am embraced by Heaven & Earth.

When there is no ego nature,
Heaven & Earth are in my embrace.
A unity arises, where once there was separation..."

 

This approach of practice in many ways is like we are simply preparing ourselves, to become an Appropriate Vessel for the Great Nature...

 

It is like we are living in an Ocean of the Qi of the Great Nature....

 

Yet we are so filled with our Own Ideas, Acquired Thoughts and Attitudes, and various levels of Defilement - 

there is no Empty Space at all...

 

So the Cup is Full - the Ocean of Qi may not enter....

 

Then the question to ask is -- "How to Empty the Cup and create the Vessel...?"

 

The beginning work and various methods can be outlined simply as:

 

1. Stilling Mind and Transforming Heart

2. Transforming the Physical Body / Purification of Physical Body

3. Developing the Dantian Center

4. Opening the Energy Channels

5. Rebuilding the Lost Vital Essence 

6. Transforming Essence into Energy

 

This all slowly leads to a different condition and quality of being...

 

This Quality of Being you have become is very attractive to the Great Nature...

 

The Great Nature begins to contact you and commune with you....

 

This is a process of Qi Cultivation...

 

Cultivating the Qi of the Great Nature...

 

Yet you have no idea or intention to do this work...

 

It does the work itself - naturally.....

 

Without effort or idea.....

 

 

The clouds emerge from the Mountain of Chung

And they return to the Mountain of Chung.

I would like to ask the dweller in this mountain,

'Where are the clouds now?'

Clouds emerge from No-mind

And then return to No-mind.

No-mind is nowhere to be found.

We need not seek the home of No-mind.

 

- Wang An-shih

Tao is Nothing….

How can it give birth to the Divine, and cause the world to be produced..?

Tao does not give birth to the Divine, the Divine is born of itself.

There is the Innate or True Nature.

 

there is the Spirit...

 

next we find the Heart...

 

then we may find mind will...

 

and so on...

 

what you are able to encounter, depends on the depth you reach.

 

if you have only reached the level of thought and thinking mind - the heart may seem obscure or far away...

 

Heart is not a reference to the physical organ - it is reference to the quality of our Inner Nature, an Innate Quality.

 

You must have some practice methods which will work to deal with the negative acquired nature which covers and obscures the Heart.

 

Purifying the Heart is reference to dealing with and washing away the Acquired Negative Nature or Mind.

 

You need some technique or method to do this...

 

In my system of teaching -- we begin with movement and stillness methods.

 

Movement is a path to gain physical transformation, develop health and begin opening the channel system.

 

Stillness begins training and disciplining the mind, and awakening the Dantian Center...

 

This beginning process is termed Foundation Training...

 

During this process, you will begin to encounter and deal with the Negative Nature and through following the practice method, it is transformed to some degree...

 

the results  gained depend upon the effort put forth and the perseverance over time...

 

gaining a concrete and real practice method is perhaps the most important beginning...  

 

Thank you my friends...

i am sorry I stoped posting.

honestly, I was tired of the arguing.

i simply have focused my life on the way of Taoist Practice - and now for the past 9 years actively teaching in Japan.

I feel the main point overlooked by those exploring Taoist Methods is the process of refining and purifying the Heart.

Too much focus is put on the fascination of Qi Powers, Technique, and also Political Ranking. 

Purify and Simplify the Heart -- 

uncover your original state of sincerity.

this is an important foundation for making Internal Progress...

all my best,

dao zhen 

 

Wander like a cloud....

In ancient China, those seeking the truth of The Way would wander through the sacred mountains and temple areas seeking wisdom and truth, wandering like a cloud.

 

These seekers of wisdom took the Earth as their bed and the Sky as their blanket.

They strove to become one with Heaven and Earth.

 

The ancient traditions of Tao have inspired us to create clothing for the modern day Taoist.

 

Whether you're a Tai Chi player, a practitioner of Qigong, Kung Fu, Tao Yoga, an acupuncturist, a massage therapist, or even a poet or artist we have the styles to reflect your life, love and personal philosophy.

 

We are Empty Cloud Clothing!

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Become one with Heaven & Earth......

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Earth....

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Heaven.

We become one with Heaven & Earth.....

~This set is composed of three aspects~

1. Opening with Standing Meditation.

2. Middle section of movement -
Gathering Heaven and Earthly Energy and merging and harmonizing with Heaven and Earth....

3. Closing with standing meditation; then a gathering of Qi in the Lower Dantian.

Please note that in actual practice, please perform this entire set for 45 min to 90 min.

Standing - 5-15 min

Motion - 15-30 min

Standing (closing) - 5-15 min

The combination of Stillness and Motion create a very balanced and healthy combination of energy and are important.

When in the standing posture, please begin with a connection from the soles of the feet to the earth; feel as if slight roots connect the feet to the earth - Please do not imagine, or visualize.

Then begin to connect the crown of the head with the sky above - feel as if the crown is connected with a slight string pulling from above.

Allow the spine to elongate...

Let the teeth lightly touch, mouth closed, tongue connecting to the upper pallet, breathing in and out gently from the nose.

Allow the 'inner vision' to connect to the Lower Dantian.

The Lower Dantian (Tan Tien) is located in the empty space below the navel in the middle place between the kidney and navel -- a sphere of around 3.8 cm.

Let the inner vision gaze upon that place.

As you gaze, have a very nurturing or caring intention.

Do not gaze internally with force, tension, or strength - this will cause trouble internally -

Let golden virtue begin to grow within, releasing all negative qualities and deeply relaxing the body.

Deeply relax, and let all things drop away naturally....

While standing, draw the in breath deeply to the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4, then pause and exhale from the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4...

Allow the inhalation and exhalation to be balanced and in harmony...

It is important to gain a complete balance and union of the inhalation and exhalation...

After some time, forget the breathing.

Continue standing.....

Allow yourself to become one with the surrounding nature.

Let virtue fill your heart, and gain union with all of heaven and earth as you stand.

Breathe Deeply....

After some time of silent standing, then begin to enter the movement phase of the practice.

During the movement practice, let the movements flow from one to another.....

As you come down, allow all the Healing Force of Nature and the Universe shower down.....

After each round of movement, allow the 'inside' to feel more and more clean.....

Become more and more Pure.....

After some time of the movement practice, allow yourself to go back to silent standing meditation.

Then after the standing, perform the closing and gathering of Qi for some time.

After this, when it feels that all has settled and returned to the Lower Dantian, please rub the face with the palms, comb the fingers through the hair to stimulate the scalp, and gently pat the body to help make the transition from the deep meditation to walking.

~A note on breathing~

Do not hold the breath when doing these exercises.

Breath deeply and full and draw the inhalation and exhalation from the Dan Tian or lower abdomen.

Inhale and exhale from the nose.

During the movement practice, generally you can inhale as you rise up, and exahale as you bend down - generally.

Let it all be natural...

When you practice, please feel a connection from the feet to the earth, as if rooted. Please also feel a connection from the crown of the head to the sky, as if suspended by a string.

Be sure to let the tongue touch the hard pallet of the mouth, and the teeth are lightly closed.

Breath in and out gently through the nose.

~A note on closing at the end of the exercise~

Allow a feeling of all things settling in to the Lower Dantian and feel very grounded and centered.

Let all things return to and settle to the Lower Dantian.

Then just stand for some time, and let all become harmony, and do not think or focus to anything.

You may massage the face, and gently pat the body before moving on after finishing the exercise...

Let the Heart be pure and clean during all practice.....

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Become one with Heaven & Earth......

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Earth....

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Heaven.

We become one with Heaven & Earth.....

~This set is composed of three aspects~

1. Opening with Standing Meditation.

2. Middle section of movement -
Gathering Heaven and Earthly Energy and merging and harmonizing with Heaven and Earth....

3. Closing with standing meditation; then a gathering of Qi in the Lower Dantian.

Please note that in actual practice, please perform this entire set for 45 min to 90 min.

Standing - 5-15 min

Motion - 15-30 min

Standing (closing) - 5-15 min

The combination of Stillness and Motion create a very balanced and healthy combination of energy and are important.

When in the standing posture, please begin with a connection from the soles of the feet to the earth; feel as if slight roots connect the feet to the earth - Please do not imagine, or visualize.

Then begin to connect the crown of the head with the sky above - feel as if the crown is connected with a slight string pulling from above.

Allow the spine to elongate...

Let the teeth lightly touch, mouth closed, tongue connecting to the upper pallet, breathing in and out gently from the nose.

Allow the 'inner vision' to connect to the Lower Dantian.

The Lower Dantian (Tan Tien) is located in the empty space below the navel in the middle place between the kidney and navel -- a sphere of around 3.8 cm.

Let the inner vision gaze upon that place.

As you gaze, have a very nurturing or caring intention.

Do not gaze internally with force, tension, or strength - this will cause trouble internally -

Let golden virtue begin to grow within, releasing all negative qualities and deeply relaxing the body.

Deeply relax, and let all things drop away naturally....

While standing, draw the in breath deeply to the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4, then pause and exhale from the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4...

Allow the inhalation and exhalation to be balanced and in harmony...

It is important to gain a complete balance and union of the inhalation and exhalation...

After some time, forget the breathing.

Continue standing.....

Allow yourself to become one with the surrounding nature.

Let virtue fill your heart, and gain union with all of heaven and earth as you stand.

Breathe Deeply....

After some time of silent standing, then begin to enter the movement phase of the practice.

During the movement practice, let the movements flow from one to another.....

As you come down, allow all the Healing Force of Nature and the Universe shower down.....

After each round of movement, allow the 'inside' to feel more and more clean.....

Become more and more Pure.....

After some time of the movement practice, allow yourself to go back to silent standing meditation.

Then after the standing, perform the closing and gathering of Qi for some time.

After this, when it feels that all has settled and returned to the Lower Dantian, please rub the face with the palms, comb the fingers through the hair to stimulate the scalp, and gently pat the body to help make the transition from the deep meditation to walking.

~A note on breathing~

Do not hold the breath when doing these exercises.

Breath deeply and full and draw the inhalation and exhalation from the Dan Tian or lower abdomen.

Inhale and exhale from the nose.

During the movement practice, generally you can inhale as you rise up, and exahale as you bend down - generally.

Let it all be natural...

When you practice, please feel a connection from the feet to the earth, as if rooted. Please also feel a connection from the crown of the head to the sky, as if suspended by a string.

Be sure to let the tongue touch the hard pallet of the mouth, and the teeth are lightly closed.

Breath in and out gently through the nose.

~A note on closing at the end of the exercise~

Allow a feeling of all things settling in to the Lower Dantian and feel very grounded and centered.

Let all things return to and settle to the Lower Dantian.

Then just stand for some time, and let all become harmony, and do not think or focus to anything.

You may massage the face, and gently pat the body before moving on after finishing the exercise...

Let the Heart be pure and clean during all practice.....

It is not that one thing stands for another thing....

 

This discourse is related to observations on what experiences one goes through in the process of 'change' that happens over the course of practice...

 

'Internal Change'

 

By my limited experience and also very limited understanding of this practice, the red ball is what is formed in the 'Incubation' stage where the Qi combines with the Shen.....

 

I have to look back over my notes to see the exact process that takes place as far as color changes....

 

But it is as if there is a 'ball' one views in the lower Dantian, and then as the Qi and Shen combine, a color change takes place.....

 

Then this begins to circulate....

 

This is the stage when many adepts die.

 

So usually during the period of passing through the 7 days, it appears the adept is dead....

 

After the process is finished, while he is still in meditation, a 'Golden Halo' will appear....

 

But these days, I think we should all work more gaining personal harmony and cultivation of virtue....

 

This is a foundation that many of us ignore, yet it is the foundation for the entire course of development...

 

Work on your character, transform negative emotions, live a good life.....

 

This is the foundation for any real inner work.....

 

 

I read the text some times and it's very interesting and almost everything is understandable to me, but not this part about the Red Ball that rise up.

 

Can you tell us more about this stage ? For example, what does the Red Ball stand for ?

 

Thx!

Tao is the original root source of all life and gives birth to all things.....

 

Tao is also contained within all things....

 

The Tao that is contained within all is termed 'Te'....

 

Te serves the function of a root source or much like the source of a spring...

 

To regain Union with Tao, we must first cultivate 'Te'.....

I personally have spent time in China with Damo.

 

He came with me to Wudang on two separate occasions to study Qigong and Internal Alchemy with a teacher of mine at that time...

 

It was back in 2006 or 2007 if I remember correctly.

 

Very nice guy, and very hard worker....

 

I was most impressed that in addition to the VERY hard meditation training schedule, he would jog daily to a very far away cliff side temple in the free time between afternoon and evening class to practice his forms and stuff.

 

Hard working guy, and serious....

 

Lets see more love and unity.......

 

We all have the same aim......

 

To deeply understand these internal arts, and gain wisdom from direct personal experience.....

It is a method of Dao Yin.

 

As such it is mostly designed to lengthen the tendon network, stretch the large and small muscle fibers, open the space in the joints, lengthen the spine, and also work on regulation of breath, build some endurance, and also calmness of mind.

 

There is some small aspect of this set that will naturally cause circulation of Qi in the channels due to the patterns of movement and stretching, and also some awareness and contact is begun with the Lower Dantian area.

 

The second set of 24 movements (not shown) is much more demanding, and generally most people do not have the endurance, flexibilty, or physical stamina to learn and perform it.

 

Both this set of 12, and the 24 set are a basic and foundation exercise.

 

Of course there can be some aspect of Qi cultivation gained - but very basic -

 

Such methods can be a good place to start and lay a foundation for further advanced practices.

 

Many schools start students off with physical methods first before working on more advanced energetic practices - such as Seated Internal Alchemy, etc...

 

Different schools have different ways to begin the students on the path of energetic cultivation.

 

Some schools in the Taoist traditions will have the students do physical work to build stamina, endurance, flexibilty, and also change the tendon network as a first step in the process....

 

Usually at this stage, a special diet is taken, and often times herbs are given to detoxify the system, or to build up weakness that is present in the organ system, etc...

 

Why is the is the form moving so fast at times?

looks like a demonstration or something,not like effective qi gong

 

 

It is a new automatic feature

 

http://www.labnol.org/internet/video-title...be-player/7064/

 

To remove it

 

http://www.reelseo.com/youtube-player-info/

 

YM

 

Thank you........

 

(((bow)))

sorry Tao Bums....

 

off topic question, but I am sure someone knows the answer...

 

i am planing to post some various youtube videos online with some basic exercises, practice, etc....

 

so far i posted a set of 2, and now it shows the title in the youtube screen now....

 

before there was no title in the window screen....

 

see film below, with the white title thing....

 

any idea how to take these off when i post youtube video?

 

sorry, not very good with such things....

 

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Yes, yes, yes.....

 

Our system has nothing to do with "practices" nor "techniques"....

 

In the first few stages, some technique must be given, some guidelines, etc....

 

Most never move past such a stage, and even the basic level of Transformation of Jing to Qi is given as a "technique" or method in the first steps - but even this must become natural, and the mind-will should not be involved in any direction or guiding...

 

The process is like "growth" or a natural "movement" in a direction that you are "pushed" to from the first trainings and "transmissions" from the teacher...

 

Yes, it is much like "seeds" or "software" is installed....

 

As internal "signs" arise, at times the teacher will advise the student to "employ" a slight method, and this can cause the growth to continue on in a proper direction.

 

For example, at one stage, there is an experience of a strong light that flashes in front of the eyes three times, and at this same time the Qi feels very active and a sound like a roaring will arise from behind - at this time of these signs, there is an action to be taken to continue in the proper growth, etc...

 

The way it was taught to me was we learned the "practice" and we also learned the "theory"...

 

But in reality, they are two different things, and the practice is what is important.

 

The outline of the practice course is not a reference to "technique", but a view of the main stages of growth that take place along the journey.

 

A tree grows from a seed, to a sapling, to a small tree, to a large one....

 

Perhaps we can on paper chart such "stages" of growth of the tree, and give each stage a "name"....

 

But in reality, it is one process of growth, and it is completely "seamless"....

 

Such is the practice of Internal Alchemy....

 

Growth.....

 

I do not have my stack of theory notebooks with me right now....

 

I am recalling now one stage of the practice where the bones will become like some feeling of "fire" and very intense pain......

 

I did not reach this stage yet, and am just recalling the lecture....

 

I will be back in Wudang in 3 weeks or so, and can go through my notebooks to look for that stage.....

 

I also know there was talk about "false pain", being created by the "false heart" at a stage to try and stop you from practice....

 

This was talked about in reference to one reaching an important point of "breakthrough" in the practice.

 

In this reference, it was advised to just sit and move through it, no matter how bad the pain gets - to totally ignore it, and give it no mind, thought, or vision - and attempt to be empty with no movement of the mind-will....

 

Sorry, but I do not remember all the theory, and try and practice more than memorizing such things....

 

Perhaps if you are a seasoned seated meditation adept, then the pain is another thing besides just sore tendons, stiff hip joints, or closed channels in the legs......

 

I just read about you feeling tired.......

 

Let me tell you what I went through perhaps one or two years ago....

 

When sitting with my teacher, it was as if there was a HUGE pressure, almost crushing me about 30 min in.

 

This would then lead to a great heat, and a huge pain, almost inside my bones, and a strong fight / flight response to open the legs due to the pain......

 

I would hold, breath and just be with this......

 

After the sessions would end, I would be soaked in sweat, and REALLY tired.......

 

It reached a point of intensity after about 5 days, and then it was as if I came face to face with this wall, and there arose a pure and sincere intention internally, and my heart had a vow - "I do not care about this pain. I shall not move, ever....." A force arose inside, and the pressure become stronger, more pain, but this "vow" was like a light growing.... Then the pressure and pain suddenly "melted", and I had a huge breakthrough in the practice - whole body become light, like being in a shower of golden light, and I fell into emptiness, and just kept sitting and sitting, and when I came out, Teacher had already left the room, and it was quite late....

 

Maybe this is something like where you are at in your practice?

 

Perhaps when the heart feels strong and it is the right "time", just sit.....

 

Till the wall comes down........

 

Maybe a great breakthrough is waiting on the otherside of the pain.............

 

 

Hua, as in flower, opening, melting, transformation, liberation etc, correct.

 

I agree as to your list of tangible results of good alchemy practice.

 

Yet, maybe our approaches are abit different. I do not know.

 

Here I think our ways part abit.

What I have been taught is a system that teaches Internal Alchemy as one of the two most advanced aspects of a practice that is always changing. What is taught is never the same, and will even change as it is taught from retreat to retreat, even if it is minor changes. So what I practice now may have been changed, almost like a Windows upgrade. In a sense, there is not a formal system, since the information changes.

 

I have only a very fragmented understanding, and not a comprehensive outlook like you seem to have. Neither do I study as a recluse, and my form of practice is adapted to people living in the western society.

What it emphasizes is that the core transmissions and basic seeds contains all the information for higher practice, and thus the basic practice can be the most advanced.

 

But my post was not about my particular form of Int. alchemy, but instead adress the basic nature of bodily, psychosomatic reactions and energetic consequences of dedicated sitting. Pain being one central aspect that seems to come up for me now.

 

I'd like to know why (for example) I feel like i've been running a marathon after sitting still for 1 hour, and if the opening and transformation of the chi in certain cavities, on a micro level really transforms something deep even on an information level, not only chi level/meridian level. Also, how the Shen aspect of the transformation process affects the Jing and Chi aspect.

 

Thank you for your helpful hints on transcending pain above.

 

h

If I were to understand your question correctly, you wonder if I should be more systematic?

 

I practice Hua Gong, and maybe I underestimate the uniqueness of the reactions that I face in relation to the nature of my practice........

 

Recall that I have adressed the nature of my system elsewhere, but my undertanding of it unfolds continuously, so to your basic layout of your system, I could say in general that this is not very similar to what I work at, atleast on the higher levels.

 

To avoid the easy reply and drawing the outline, my honest reply is that I have realy no clue how this unfolds. The feeling and experience I have is that there is atleas 4 different, separate yet interdependent dimensions of practice that takes turns in emphasis: physical transformation, energy purification, integration (both of energies and in life) and liberation (both on a micro and macro-plane).

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

h

 

I think as friends and companions, and also as Westerners exploring these Taoist Arts, we have to be objective, honest, and also have a spirit of sharing; then maybe we can make some headway...

 

I do not know of a traditional practice termed "Hua Gong" is this Hua as in "Flower"....?

 

To be honest, we must seriously look at the RESULTS gained or LACK OF RESULTS.

 

I think three basic hallmarks of a good Internal Alchemy system would be:

 

1. A real and tangible method to quiet the stray thoughts and desires from the very start of the journey.

 

2. A real and tangible method to quickly open all channels - thereby allowing the student to be free of disease and in health and also to be able to sit for longer and longer periods of time in no pain.

 

3. A real and tangible method to deal with the first main door one approaches - "what to do when Jing is full" -

 

By my research and understanding from personal practice, a "SYSTEM" would address the above points in a very clear manner, and also other points that come later on.....

 

I agree with you in a simple manner on your 4 areas that arise as dimensions of practice; though we could analyze and list quite a bit more -or maybe that is the job of the Buddhists

 

It is good to look at a system in outline form, as it can give you some idea of where you are in your practice,

if you are progressing on course, and also if perhaps you made some error, and are going in a wrong direction.

 

Beijing able to look at a system in outline form, can also show if in fact this system has some aim of Union with Tao, and a means to provide a vehicle to allow the student to make such a journey....

 

I would also go one step further, and say that to qualify as a True Method, such a system should have some living examples of adepts who have made advanced headway using these methods - otherwise it is all fancy talk, legendary stories and tall tales...

 

Without a good map, it is perhaps almost imossible to get to the destination.....

 

In a simple way, our practice could be outlined as such:

 

1. Laying Foundation - 100 days

2. Incubation - 1 year

3. Journey through the Big Pass - 7 days

4. Nursing the Infant - 3 years

5. Facing a Wall - 9 years

 

In a more complex way as listed by my senior:

 

STEP 1 Preparatory work

STEP 2 Cleanse the heart of all stray thoughts, desires and passions

STEP 3 Settle mind-will in Lower Elixir Field

STEP 4 Open up the Eight Extra Channels

STEP 5 Administer Jing

STEP 6 Harvest Yang Qi

STEP 7 Revolve the first small waterwheel

STEP 8 Gather Psychical Rays

STEP 9 Gather the Qi of Great Unification

STEP 10 Automatic revolution---Fetal Breathing

STEP 11 Preserve the Buddhist Relic

STEP 12 Nourish the Buddhist Relic

STEP 13 Golden lightning flashes three times

STEP 14 Conduct the Buddhist Relic to pass through the Three Passes

STEP 15 Conceive a Fetus of the True Self in ten months' time

STEP 16 Give birth to the Fetus of the True Self

STEP 17 Raise the Fetus of True Self in three years' time

STEP 18 Possess the same body with Tao

STEP 19 Fill up the infinite emptiness with my brilliant psychical light in nine years time

If one is just practicing sitting, and encounters pain, there are a few ways of dealing with it.

 

FIRST - in ancient times, and in many modern systems of Taoist practice, there is "preliminary" work that is done to prepare for sitting. By my personal experience these are usually Dao Yin stretches with breath training done in a cross leg posture, and also standing Dao Yin methods to stretch the body and tendon network, etc. These methods also begin some very basic work to open the meridian system, train the breath, and circulate the Qi. So look around for Dao Yin methods, or even doing Indian Yoga and Tai Chi can help lay some foundation of BODY for the work of SITTING.

 

SECOND - When sitting there are two methods to work with in passing through the stage of PAIN. Do this, and make it past this stage, as the reward is worth the effort. The pleasure, internal peace, and UNION we gain from the journey past the PAIN stage is really worth the effort.

 

I was taught to allow progress to take shape naturally in meditation.

 

So one method in this regard is to allow the pain to come - say in the hips, or knees, or numbness in the feet - let is build slightly, and before it becomes HUGE, very slowly stretch the feet out and allow things to become comfortable again - then very slowly draw the feet back - AND CONTINUE THE PRACTICE - with this method, a beginer can stretch a practice session out for 1.5 to 2 hours no problem.

 

A second method is to use the breath to push past the pain, or to seek to reach an experience of the meridian opening. This method is usually only good to use if one has a method of practice that combines with the meditation to build up the Qi. As the pain arises, you begin to focus deeply on the breath, and pumping the breath in and out from the Lower Dantian. DO NOT focus on the pain, just focus on the breath. Sometimes one will need a soft breath, sometimes a strong breath. If you can hold the mindfullness, and keep the mind and breath together, and not DRIFT off into the area of pain - oftentimes you will reach a WALL, and then suddenly the WALL breaks down, and there is an OPENING, and the channel opens, and the pain MELTS away like ice, and there is a WARM, comfortable feeling that arises, and the body feels very light, and usually this will lead one to a deep state of emptiness........

 

These are just to give you something to play with.

 

Really, I wish you can all experience to learning of the hand postures - and the related other methods - as it opens things up quickly, builds a healthy qi, and leads one in a very specific direction in the practice.....

how long do you practice for? i think that is a huge factor as well.

 

For students who are just starting out, in our system, we sit for 1 hour to 1 hour and 15 min or so - 3 sessions a day at morning / afternoon / evening -

 

This time period is slowly lengthened.

 

The student will spend half of the sitting session holding the hand postures to open the meridians, and building a balanced Qi (stillness quality / medium quality / active quality - combined - ) , then the last half is sitting in stillness, and letting this Qi naturally run its course.

 

*** This is a tried and true method that opens the energy channels quickly - and if the method is followed correctly, the student can experience sitting for one hour or longer in the begining with not a lot of pain.

 

Pain is caused by closed meridians, and lack of circulation of Qi.

 

Personally, I try now and sit through a good period of the night - 2 - 3 hours in a session - rest, or lie down, then sit up again.

 

This is interspersed with periods of practice lying on the back at times.

 

If I have been busy, I of course sleep as needed.

 

By my observation, a true method is something that is passed down from the experience of many generations or adepts.

 

They have a very exact - step by step - method of practice.

 

As such, they will generally have charted the time it takes to accomplish stages of the practice, sensations one should experience along the way, etc.

 

It is not guesswork.......

I think the big problem by my observation is people have bits and pieces of information, and are trying to put them together.

 

Like feeling around in a dark room, trying to find something..........

 

There is not a "complete view" of practice.

 

Another big problem in the area of Taoist Alchemy Practice in the West is that people view visualization as a part of the practice, when in reality, it is a false one.

 

Using the Mind Will to direct the Qi in the Ren and Du channel has often been termed the "False Water Wheel", by the few Taoist Adepts I met in China.

 

You want to circulate the "External Medicine" in the Water Wheel, so first you have to begin cultivation and "Harvest of Yang Qi."

 

Yet, without having practiced something we may term, "True Practice", people are happy to keep using visualization, or other methods that gain no real resulats, thinking they are walking along the road.

 

I think practices like Vipasana can be a good foundation for learning Alchemy Meditation later on, though it is not needed.

 

As people may learn to still the mind will, or thought of in another light, to bring the mind will back to a unified force, rather than a scattered force.

 

In the very end, we should be practical.

 

Do you get results right away from the practice?

 

By my observation in 90% of people, when engaged in a True Practice, results should be gained in a matter of 4 - 12 days.

 

If you do a method for months and months, and nothing is really happening (such as VERY strong Qi flow, transformation of Jing, and the above lead or pull one to a deep state of stillness) - then it is time to take an honest look at what you practice.

 

 

I think people are confusing different practices here. If you want to cultivate a good qi flow, you're going to be doing something totally different than shikantaza. If you want to do shikantaza, you're going to be doing something totally different than vipassana, etc.

 

Yes at the core of all spiritual practices there is the same path and result, but those practices aren't similar at all in some cases.

 

You can either sit totally still, or allow spontaneous movement. You can confront your deepest fears by being present with the pain, or focus on diminishing the pain by working on your meridians with different mudras.

 

You can't mix them all together.

What do you practice?

 

I think in an authentic method, there is a usually a very systematic practice to follow.

 

In the system that was passed on to me, the practice is outlined as follows:

 

1. How to Still the Mind - Resting the Mind Will in the Lower Dantian

 

2. Hand Posture and Hand Mudra Forms to Open the Meridian System

 

3. Transformation of Jing to Qi

 

4. Harvest of Yang Qi

 

5. Small Water Wheel

 

6. Etc...

 

Pain is usually present in the legs and lower back, knees, tendons and other spots in the first stages mainly due to the closed meridian system.

 

You have to work through this stage.

 

I experienced HUGE pain in my first 25 day training retreat, but I did not have a lot of experience in sitting.

 

While passing through the pain phase, I found regulation of the breath to help a lot - while we also had to hold "extended" hand postures, and this helped to "push" through the pain so to speak....

 

In this system, the meridian system can generally be opened in around 7 days - doing full time practice of sitting with hand posture forms - 3 sessions a day -

 

Once the opening of the meridians begins to take place generally around day 4 to day 7, the body takes on a feeling of being very light, soft and open - then you begin to feel you can sit for a longer and longer time with no discomfort.

 

Pain is less and less, and then as you keep practicing, feelings of more lightness of body, and pleasurable states come on the scene....

 

YET, as mostly we live in society, and can have emotional reactions, the meridian system can get blocked and closed again - so generally we must practice the hand postures and mudras for some time before we just sit in total stillness with no hand posture forms.

 

We were taught NOT to just sit in a stillness posture till the meridian system is opened, and there is a strong and natural flow of Qi through the entire system.

 

Just sitting in a stillness posture without laying a proper foundation may result in one not moving in the proper direction of growth in practice.

 

Yet everyone is unique, and we can not say anything in an absolute manner.

I personally think the term Qigong is one we should move away from....

 

In my study with authentic Taoist Adepts in China, none of them used the tem "Qigong"...

 

I have mostly heard the term - YangSheng - used in reference to arts we may term - Qigong -

 

By my understanding the term - YangSheng - can be translated as - The Art of Nourishing Life -

 

Kind of says it all.........

 

If we wish to classify the term - Qigong - I would say it is an art that deals with opening the channels in the body and balancing the Qi in the organ spheres - from the superficial level to a deeper level -

 

Where as - Neigong - works from a deeper level from the first, and thereby will affect the superficial level naturally.

 

By my understanding, the art most would term - Nei Dan Gong - or Internal Alchemy Meditation - actually uses the practice we look at as - Qigong - in the first stage - but later it moves beyond such a practice naturally -

 

Qigong - the art of mastery of internal energy -

 

Perhaps........

 

Really I dislike the term - Qigong -

 

I think it has been a term in vogue for the past 50 years or so by one account....

 

YangSheng - the art of nourishing life...........

It is interesting to me to see these things forming in the west - generally from people who have had no contact with the Taoist Tradition as it is passed on in China.

 

In China, there is no real distinction of Tao practice, and often times in temples or with lay people, many have a different expression of what they "practice" to "express" Tao.

 

There is no concept of a Religious Tao and something seperate that is a Philosophical Tao......

 

There are generally thought to be different human activity we can take part in to get closer to Tao or to express Tao.

 

Music, calligraphy, chanting, ritual, meditation, etc......

 

Such activity can help us to contact with Tao and also to express Tao....

 

By my research, it seems the most ancient activity that took place - before there was an organized movement called Dao Jiao or Taoism - was the practice of meditation in a hermit tradition in the mountains of China....

 

Perhaps this is something people who wish to understand Tao should explore.........

I think for the most part, this subject is misunderstood - due to lack of education -

 

I have been taught that the first stages of cultivation has to be done in society.

 

As in the first stages, we have to temper our heart.

 

How to learn to transform anger, negative patterns, desire and all the rest, unless we are confronted with it on a daily basis?

 

I was taught that while living in society, one can generally pass through the stages of:

 

1. Cleanse the Heart of all Desire and Passion

2. Settle Mind Will in Lower Dantian

3. Transform Jing to Qi

4. Small Water Wheel

5. Harvest of Yang Qi

 

Etc.........

 

The Stage of "Incubation" MUST be done in an isolated nature area, where there is no real contact with other humans...

 

There are many reasons for this.....

 

I think to go off into the mountains without first dealing with people, situations and society is a big mistake.

 

But also, it is a big mistake to fool oneself into thinking they can stay in society, be around people and complete the whole course of evolution in Alchemy Practice.

 

Just depends on what your goals are.

 

I think there is amazing growth to be had in relationships and family life.

 

Going to the higher levels of Alchemy practice is something for the few and not the many..........

 

 

Here's my take on this . . .

 

If you're strong enough and disciplined enough, you might as well adhere to normal human activity.

 

Those hermetic traditions - going off into the mountains or living as a monk in a temple . . . They seek to eliminate your human attachments by removing you from them.

 

It's much more difficult, and much better as far as cultivation goes to deal with them head on, confront them, eliminate them, and move on.

 

I've thought so many times throughout the years about monkhood or hermetism, but in the end . . . I would rather stay in society and be tested by fire than the gentle luke warm breezes in the mountains.

 

IMHO,

 

Jonathan

~ now ~

 

being completely in the present moment with absolute mindfullness........