oat1239

I've been doing meditation practice a lot more these days. I've been trying to just be aware of the flow of air in and out of my nose.

 

I've been surprised about a few things like....

 

Just how damn many thoughts I have running through my head. There's a whole cascade of them in there! Like a blizzard.

 

Also how damn hard it is to keep focused on just being aware of my breathing. I do not know how the hell it happens but sometimes a thought or reverie will come up and I'll kinda get swept up in it. Then something snaps...it's like waking up in a daze and I'll be shocked wondering how the hell did THAT happen?! I don't even remember getting swept up in the reverie...it just happens.

 

I notice that as my breathing gets softer and slower the blizzard of thoughts gets softer or quieter. There's still tons of them there but they do get softer or quieter. On a few rare occasions a few tiny moments of no thoughts pops up here and there. But those moments are rare.

 

I'm trying hard to "have the mind of a beginner" like Zen teachers recommend. It's not easy to keep Beginner's Mind.

It sounds like you are doing well. Just gently bring your attention back to your breath when you realize you drifted off into thoughts and don't worry about it (it's normal), and stay relaxed and keep going. Also, just observe and avoid trying to draw any conclusions, during or after. What we might think is going on or not going on at any point as we practice meditation over time is just more thoughts. More clutter. Let those thoughts go as well. Just continue to observe and avoid trying to analyze what might be going on from day to day and week to week and month to month, etc. This would seem to be the essence of meditation as is described from various traditional sources. In the West we tend to want to analyze everything to pieces, but that takes us away from meditation, IMO. It seems it is about letting go and just experiencing and observing (or not) without any attempt at all at directing or judging or analyzing and without expectations. Well, that is how I understand the essence of what is written in some traditional writings on meditation practice anyway.

Rushing water never runs very deep and shallow water is not hard to fathom if we pay attention and take our time. Welcome to the tao bums.

Hmm, I wonder. You know IME it's often hard to discern which "concepts" were passed on and coloured one's experience as a result and which experiences are experiences that one can have for oneself and as oneself. I suppose the only way to find out would be to practice his system.

Is he currently teaching?

He was traching workshops in the US some time from about 1993 to 1997, from what I can gather, but he apparently went back to China in 1997 to continue his personal cultivation. I have not heard about him since then, so not sure where he is these days.

Seems to me one's definitions of "the negative" also change. For example, one may start by thinking violence is an utter negative, then after some length of meditation experience one may recognize violence as one of the energies of the universe, from the microcosmic to the cosmic levels. And that violence is a force in the omnipresent process of change. One may still prefer peace, but come to appreciate it is only one side of the coin.

Yin is yin and yang is yang, however not everything is pure yin and not everything is pure yang. Not everything is wholy bad and not everything is wholy good. Because of this we are sometimes faced with having to make judgement calls where may have to try to decide if the good outweighs the bad enough in some certain circumstance to justify it. We may have the situation where we hold ideas or concepts about things and want to superimpose these ideas or concepts on the world and try to make the world conform to our concepts, rather than just observing how things really work naturally. If we say we shouldn't differentiate between negative and positive for example because in our mind we think that this is being biased or judging, then we may miss out on lessons that we could otherwise be learning through direct experience and observation. We have become stuck with a concept we are holding in our mind and have instead possibly closed our 'eyes' to experiencing and observing the way something actually is.

In the Tao Te Ching it says something to the effect of:

"One strips oneself of passion in order to understand the sessence

One regards life with passion in order to see its manifest forms"

There are various translations of this but this seems to be the general idea.

I have observed that meditation tends to make me more positive overall. I don't seek this but it just occurs naturally. By just observing I note this is occuring. If I try to impose a mental concept on this that one should ideally be neutral somewhow so how could it be that one could be drawn towards the positive without intention of some sort? Shouldn't one be neutral and make no differentitation between negative and positive? I think this confusion arises because of people missing the principle outlined in the passage quoted above. Such things are hard to describe in words so I find it easier to say that in this universe yin is yin and yang is yang. Yin is not sometimes yang and vice versa, but there are many combinations of yin and yang in things.

Another way to say it is most people would rather not have something very bad happen to them if they are being honest, even though at the same time they may struggle with concepts in their mind of whether one should really differentiate between yin and yang or good and bad. This I think is the difference between directly understanding the workings of form as it really is in this universe through experience and observation and trying to impose a concept held in our mind on the universe (form). When something is clearly bad we for the most part have little trouble recognizing that it is bad and not in ours or others best interest, but when yin and yang are mixed in closer proportions we may have more trouble distinguishing. This doesn't mean that there is no difference between yin and yang however and thus we should not differentiate between them. Sometimes we can get too far into ideas and concepts and thus we can miss what is right in front of us if we would instead just observe the way things really are. This is how I 'see' it anyway.

Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing it.

The author has quite a few explanations that seem to cover lots of cases. In my case I found solace and a 'place to stay' in my conviction that I am not a reincarnation :-) But he also wrote that people disbelieve because they don't remember/ are unconscious. Bases covered. Smart guy :-)

He is writing from his own experience, not just speaking of concepts that were passed on to him, so I think that is what makes this book so interesting. He is describing his own direct personal epxerience and observation with these sorts of concepts. I think this is why he is emphasizing that what he practices is not superstition, but his system is actually based on direct experience and observation as a way to learn about and understand these concepts. Of course no one can get fully get away from imposing their own personal views and concepts on their observations and experiences, so nothing is completely neutral.

Sounded good to me. Of course, I mess with electricity all the time and with batteries too so what you said was common knowledge to me.

 

But then, it is where that current passes through the resistance is where all the action is. Kinda' like Chi passing through each of us. Our resistance will determine the amount of activity.

 

Yeah, this sounds strange because we are told that we are not supposed to resist the natural flow. But how could our little light shine if we aren't applying some form of resistance?

 

Now my mind is screwed up. Hehehe.

Yes, but if there was resistance it would be more equivalent to the world glowing.

Anyway, it is more the general idea of slowly becoming more positive overall that I was getting at. I can't really explain why, but that is the effect it seems to have on me.

Yes that explanation of how a grass seed is created and the dimensional intelligence form the yin world causing manifestations in the yang world was super interesting.

 

I've never read anything like this either, superficially it seems really weird, but it makes a lot of sense too.

Yeah, there are some unusual concepts in this book for sure. It outlines quite a different world view than the way most of us would normally look at things.

This is interesting. I know exactly what you mean but I wonder if it is truly that we are pulled toward the "positive".

The positive means we are judging and choosing - this is better than that.

And yet the very thing that seems to be happening is a simple acceptance of this and that. Both without the judging and choosing.

This simple being, rather than choosing, brings with it peace and tranquility but it is in the presence of both positivity and negativity.

So after meditating for a while, I am more at peace even in the negative. Negative and positive aspects no longer affect me as much.

I hope I'm making sense....

Ok, I see what you are saying. All I can say is my experince is that I slowly seem to be feeling that I am becoming more positive and viewing things more positively overall as a result of regular meditation practice. In other words I slowly seem to be becoming a more postive person overall. Maybe we are really saying the same thing but just expressing it a bit differently.

This may really have nothing to do with anything, but as a sort of analogy when a circuit is completed between the negative and positive terminals of a battery, the negative electrons always flow towards the positive terminal. The electrons don't think about it (actually, who really knows?) and decide to do so and they don't make any judgement call about it at all either. The negative electrons just naturally are pulled towards the positive terminal of the battery because it is their nature to do so. It is only if there is some interference introduced to this system such as breaking the circuit connection will this natural flow stop. Maybe meditation is akin to completeing the circuit in this analogy? Ok, maybe that is a not really a valid analogy at all but it sounds good.

Damn I wish I could get there again.

On that we agree entirely.

I can see the advantages gained by those who meditate on a daily basis. (I'm not one of those. I'm not into rituals at all.)

Meditation is also no form. It is also no action. If we can keep that with us then our life is always meditation. Easier said than (not) done though, I think.

This morning I was fortunate to see six different butterflies in my garden. They too were like out thoughts, blowing like leaves in the breeze. I like butterflies - such beautiful animals.

Butterflies are our teachers, like all things in nature.

I am saying that without that you will never fully understand Zhuangzi. I think if you read it just by your mind or brain, if you take it as philosophy, you miss the most important points of his book - a personal practice of his life.

Miro

Your thoughts are my thoughts.

Actually, I haven't even meditated at all during the past few days. No idea why. Just a phase I'm going through, I guess.

Anyhow, your last post sent my mind to the "Objective reality" thread and concept. Our observations and perceptions change depending on our mood (harmony of Yin/Yang).

Yes, I agree that they do. What I have noticed however is that through the practice of meditation I have been slowly starting to see the world more and more continuously from towards the most positive perspective although I am at the same time fully aware of and involved in all the other stuff that goes on. It is like meditation slowly takes us to the more positive perspective while at the same time increasing our awareness of both perspectives. Our awareness of the overall taiji increases while at the same time we naturally are pulled towards the most positive portion of the taiji.

I posted this in another thread earlier, but I guess it fits here...

After finishing my evening meditation this evening I was just sitting and relaxing. I wasn't thinking about anything in particular but I became aware of an interesting dichotomy. From one perspective the world can seem random, out of control, stark, relentlessly harsh, and even a downright nuthouse , and from another perspective the world can seem perfect, complete, always providing exactly what is needed exactly when needed, always in perfect balance, and a beautiful comedic symphony, all at the same time. The difference is in perspective but the viewer has not moved. Strange, but not strange. It really seems true. Yang always must be counteracted by yin in this world. It is as it should be, but it is also not.

-

if one is searching for a map

one is lost

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For those who are so inclined, a place to express your meditation experiences.

Express your experiences in whatever way you wish.

thoughts, like blowing leaves

from whence comes the wind?

-

After finishing my evening meditation this evening I was just sitting and relaxing. I wasn't thinking about anything in particular but I became aware of an interesting dichotomy. From one perspective the world can seem random, out of control, stark, relentlessly harsh, and even a downright nuthouse , and from another perspective the world can seem perfect, complete, always providing exactly what is needed exactly when needed, always in perfect balance, and a beautiful comedic symphony, all at the same time. The difference is in perspective but the viewer has not moved. Strange, but not strange. It really seems true. Yang always must be counteracted by yin in this world. It is as it should be, but it is also not.

I have found this is a topic not worth discussing here due to the above reasons...

I see what you mean...

Well, I see topics like this can sure bring them out of the woodwork. Where's the button I click to alert the men in the white?

Why bother starting a post if you appear to know all the answers?? No reply will change your point of view it would seem? The mind is a most powerful thing it can very easily fool you!

I am actually just stating my point of view and opinion, as you are. It's called a discussion. My view is based on direct personal experience, as I have explained. I think people can emit qi in different ways over a distance because I have experienced this personally on a number of occasions. I am also familiar with some of the training techniques for this. Just because someone tells me that they believe it can't be done does not change my experience. From a few of your other posts that I have seen it seems you have some real issues. Not really interested in wasting my time on this sort of silliness. You'll have to look somewhere else to try to stroke your ego.

double post.

Hi oat1239,

 

A lot of Daoist sects use the 'sword' fingers for extending the qi or fa, there appears to be many hand forms to extend qi or fa. From my own practices, qi or fa cannot be extended to a small point from that distance shown in the video, only from a small distance away from the object or person. This master in the video does not show any sign of the effort it takes to extend the qi powerfully. Let me put it scientifically; when a person has developed their qi over many years of cultivation 30+ at least, their electricity/ volts in their body is much higher and stronger than normal. When one extends this energy powerfully, it takes an enormous amount of effort to do this. The person will be exhausted afterwards, for every living cell in their body will be excited and the energy will be released. A very strong heart is needed which is developed over the many years of practice. The one person who I have seen who I think is not a fake is the Chang qi gong master who demonstrates burning the paper, you will notice that he has to put his hand very near the paper not from a distance, the burn is wide even though his hand is so near, which goes back to my original point of qi extends in a cone shape not in a tiny line like a laser.

In China and Chinese thinking, if you can do these sort of things means your status in the community is much higher than anyone else. Since the relaxation of religion by the communist gov. People have appeared by magic out of the woodwork and people are really excited by this sort of thing. To the Chinese a higher status is far better than lots of money, although far more business comes if your well respected and looked up to.

Not all qigong methods are the same. I have outlined some of the different methods in the thread on qi. In some external styles of qigong there is more emphasis on using a lot of force and effort to direct qi and in some other styles it is mainly about using mind focus to direct qi. I have reviewed various information about Dr. Jiang Feng over the last couple of years and he really seems to have some exceptional abilities with qi and qi healing. He has been involved with visiting other qigong healing clinics in other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia and teaching there and seems to be highly respected. He has also done healing consultations for some notable people such as the queen of Malaysia and others.

I can point a finger at the palm of my other hand a few feet away and feel a tingling qi sensation on the palm of my hand fairly quickly. This is not a big deal. How strong I feel it depends on how energetic I am feeling on any given day. As soon as I move my pointing finger away the tingling qi sensation in my palm stops. It requires no effort at all. I just hold the idea of sending qi from my finger tip. I can't burn a hole in a sheet of paper however. There are various practices that qigong healers use to train qi emission so they can eventually learn to emit qi really strongly in various different ways at a distance. It is very specialized qi training. These methods mainly involve using the mind instead of forceful effort. Dr. Jiang's method actually seems somewhat more forceful than other qigong healers I have seen. It really depends on how a person trains. Different practices can produce different types of results. Because I have personally experienced how strongly a qigong healer can emit qi at a distance of a few feet it is not too much more of a major stretch for me to allow for the possibility that if someone knows how to focus that strong emission of qi into a narrow stream it could well be quite intense.

For anyone who is interested, here are some more videos of Dr. Jiang Feng and associates doing qigong healing and qi emission.

This is a video of a colleague of Dr. Jiang Feng doing a qigong healing method at a qigong healing teaching seminar which employs a method that seems to be used to remove stagnant blood and toxins from the patient's body. Don't watch if you are squeemish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjZt4wUKKk

The following video was recorded by some people who visited Dr. Jiang Feng a few years ago.

Emitting qi to a point on the body:

Looks painful!

Fact; one cannot concentrate the qi to a fine point over even a small distance, it will naturally want to form a ball or cone shape in the atmosphere. His body tells me he is not extending his qi.

Actually qigong therapists train to emit qi in different ways using different hand and finger positions. Some hand positions are for emitting more of a wide field and some hand positions such as extending a single finger or forming the sword fingers are for focusing qi into a more concentrated stream. These are common training methods for qigong therapy healers.

The ideas people tend to get from videos like this are not conducive to a serious focus on personal cultivation. Cultivating Qi is a much more mundane process that does not benefit from fanciful ideas like projecting Qi and burning holes in paper. All of that may, in fact, be possible. I never stated that is is not. However, the way to explore that is to begin practicing cultivation and see what comes of it. Tooling around on the internet for video demonstrations is counter-productive to Qi cultivation. This is only my personal opinion and is based in my own experience with cultivation.

 

That is all competely true.

And recognizing a fake does not mean that someone has a strong belief necessarily, it simply means that the demonstration is not convincing. What is lacking here is any real evidence or proof. It's just a single youtube video that looks to me like a phony.

I have already addressed all this in my previous reply. The video was not presented as proof of anything. You are quite welcome to draw any conclusions you like. So is everyone else. As I have mentioned I personally think there is reason enough to not dismiss this so quickly as fake, so I personally find this interesting. That is really all there is to it. If people are easily distracted by such things then they don't have to watch the video.