fatguyslim

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Posts posted by fatguyslim

  1. Posted

    Hey everyone, first of all I thank Wondo for reviving this thread. It has been a long time since I have been on this platform so apologies for not replying sooner. Since I wrote this post my friend and I have worked hard at translating some more texts by Liu Yiming. After reading a number of his texts it is somewhat clear now that he never urged any of his students to do any practices that focuses on the post heaven. From his text it is very clear that he leaned more towards Confucian way of cultivation rather than Buddhist way of cultivation. Liu was of course a Taoist immortal and and of course understood internal alchemy which is not mentioned in any Confucian texts I have read.

    From what I have gathered from Liu is that he wants every person to practice virtue. Investigating principles to know right from wrong and then act with righteousness and benevolence. In Understand Reality, Liu says this "What heaven enjoins on people is virtue; and virtue is also that whereby people requite heaven. If you have virtue, heaven is glad; then carrying out this mandate is very easy, and depends on oneself. If you have no virtue, heaven is angry; then practising this path is very difficult, and depends on heaven. Why is this? Without virtue and application, one will not be countenanced by the spirits, and there are apt to be demons which cause obstruction; suffering difficulty and sickness, one will inevitably give up along the way. Therefore, those who practise the Tao must make it a priority to cultivate virtue. When one studies and practises the Tao rich in virtue, the Tao is easy to learn and practise, particularly because heaven is glad and the obstacles of demons spontaneously vanish."

     

    In his books Liu wants students to do good deeds. Appropriate to his times he gave examples of how students could help build roads and bridges which will benefit countless people. He says something along the lines that roads and bridges are to be used by countless men for many generations so the karma to do something like this would be high. This was just an example given by Liu, I think his objective is to guide people to goodness and build on virtue. And when the virtue is high in someone immortals themselves would be moved to pass on the teachings. "When the student is ready the master appears" 

    This is very similar to what Mencius says in his books. Mencius only spoke of righteousness and benevolence and it is a key thing in his teachings that he wanted to pass on to the kings and rulers of his time. There is also a striking similarities between the text written by Wang Yang Ming and Liu Yiming and both these masters talk about working on virtue. There is also a great deal of emphasis put on filial piety by these masters and reminding every student about the importance of it. Anyway this is what I have learned from Liu over the years and try everyday to work on becoming a better person.

    • Like 2

  2. Posted

    Decibelle it brings joy to my heart that you still remember me. My friend I never meant to cause any friction between us. I never called you a fake mate all I was trying to say was that, doing things on the basis of "to just go do them" to seek results is very hard for me and funny enough for my friend it is the same. What usually happens is that we do the opposite (not to prove that the other is wrong but just because it's too overwhelming). Say for example if the master says don't think of sex... the first thing that comes to the mind is sex and it lingers in the mind for a while. Now what good is that?

     

    My main concern in all of this is to understand virtue. As it says in the taoist i-ching that there is human tao and then there is celestial tao. Which further shares that there is human virtues and then there are celestial virtues. In lius commentary on understanding reality he says it very clearly that cultivation of virtue allows spirits and demons to open doors where there none before allowing one to tread the path of tao without much hindrance. You see there is a method in this and it is very close to what neo Confucians and ancient longmen patriarchs say. Let's talk about this for change and see what meaning we arrive at for cultivating virtue. Thanks and take care

    • Like 1

  3. Posted

    As far as I know, "breathing like a turtle" denotes a quality of breathing rather than a particular practice. It is equivalent to the "breathing of the spirit" (shenxi 神息) and is said to occur in the "crane's womb" (hetai 鶴胎). It is a very deep and thorough type of breathing, and in this sense is equivalent to "breathing through the heels".

     

    There is a short entry entitled "Breathing Like a Turtle in the Crane's Womb" in Liu Yiming's Wudao lu (translated by Cleary as Awakening to the Dao, which I don't have with me right now). Essentially, he says that this expression means the harmonization of breath and spirit.

     

    This expression seems to have been used first by Ma Danyang. Later, it was also used by Chen Zhixu, who adds: "Breathing like a turtle, breathing through the heels, and breathing of the spirit have different names, but function in the same way" (Jindan dayao).

     

    Anyway, you should expect differences of terminology among different authors/masters/traditions of Neidan.

     

    FP

     

    Hey Fabrizio, I h am an avid reader of Liu Yiming's books and in the translations presented by Cleary, I have never read Liu talk about any practises as such. He rather critisises them all. For example I am quoting all the lines from "Awakening to the Tao" with the word breath in it.... Please let me know which one is it that you are talking about

     

    1.

    Grafting Peaches and

    Grafting Plums

     

    When a peach tree is old , graft on a young branch and it will again bear peaches. When a plum tree is old , graft on a young branch and it will again bear plums. This is because even when a tree is old it still has energy in its roots.

     

    What I realize as I observe this is the Tao of grafting when people grow old . People age because they indulge in emotions and passions-a hundred worries affect their minds, myriad affairs weary their bodies. Expending their vitality, exhausting their spirit, they take the fal se to be real and take

    misery for happiness.

     

    Their living potential is cut away to the point where it nearly perishes entirel y, their nature is disturbed and their life is shaken . Because the root is unstable, they grow old and die. This cannot be attributed to fa te, fo r they bring it on themselves.

     

    If people know enough to regret their errors and change, cut off emotional entanglements , get rid of addictions to intoxicants , sensuality , and possessions, look upon wealth and status as like ephemeral clouds, regard power and profit as like band its and enemies, then everything wil l be empty for them, and they will not be attached to anything.

     

    Concentrating the energy like a baby, being abstemious, storing the vital ity and nurturing the spirit, getting rid of illusion and returning to reality , fostering the growth of the root at all times, walking every step on the right path, increasing true thought and diminishing fal se thought, truly sincere within and without, integrated with the design of nature, they can thereby be rejuvenated.

     

    This is like the way of grafting a young branch onto an

    old tree. An ancient adept said, "Even at the age of seventy or eighty, as long as you still have one breath left in you, restoration is possible." This is true.

     

    2.

    Bellows

     

    A bellows has holes on either side, and at the opening of each hole is a flap. Inside is empty, while the frame is straight. The emptiness inside is the essence, the straightness of the frame is the function. The two holes are the passages of exit and entry; the two flaps are the mechanism of opening and closing . As the frame is worked back and forth, taking in and pushing out, it empties without exhaustion, moves to produce

    wind, opening and closing naturally.

     

    What I realize as I observe this is the Tao of the essence and function of cultivating real ity . I f people can be essentially empty within and he functionally straightforward in mind, without bias, without greed, letting the celestial design flow through them , then firmness and flexibility will match each other, action and stillness will combine appropriately , indirectness and directness will attain balance, and they can be

    passive or active in accordance with the situation.

     

    Then people can share the same mechanism of energy as the sky, share the creativity of heaven and earth. This is like a bellows, inwardly empty with a straight frame, coming and going, breathing in and out naturally. As the working of energy does not cease, people can live long.

     

    3.

    Artificial Exercises

     

    The Tao is natural. All forced manipulations and concoctions are in vain. Some people guard their minds and settle their ideas and thoughts, some people hold their breath and keep it in the abdomen, some people perform psychosomatic energy-circulation exercises. When these people come to the end of their lives and find everything they did was useless, they will resent the gods, also uselessly.

     

    Please let me know where did you read about Liu Yiming talking about any physical practise because so far and as it even says the third paragraph, I don't see him mentioning it anywhere. Do let us know. Cheers

    • Like 2

  4. Posted

    For years I had thought they were primitives and for a long time I considered their wisdom useless. It was because of a very good friend of mine that I got to learn more about them, I suddenly felt amazingly stupid when I got to learn more and more about them. And then I gradually started respecting them, every passing day I was in awe as to what they had written. Today I can very easily say that all I know about good, life, justice, harmony and peace I owe it to them. I owe it to my Ancestors, I owe it to my Ancestors...

     

    Here is a quote from Cleary's I Ching to illustrate how foolish I was and how their wisdom was the only thing that helped me in dark times...

     

    "This is like a king coming to have a shrine for spirits. Ancestors are people's roots; if they forget their roots, people are disrespectful and inhuman. When the king comes to have a shrine for spirits, this is how to let people know there is a basis to be grateful to. People's original natural reality is like their ancestral roots: When people abandon reality and accept falsehood, that is like forgetting ancestral roots. If people can gather in their spirit and energy, cultivate essence and life, and restore the original natural reality, that is like not forgetting ancestral roots."

     

    I hope my country (India) and China should learn more from what was handed down to us and not from what is handed across in these degenerate times. Peace

    • Like 1

  9. Posted

    page not found

     

    On this page http://www.daoistcenter.org/chronology.pdf you will find them under Qing Dynasty and on this link http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t8h8myrpxAUC&pg=PA1510&lpg=PA1510&dq=Liu+Huayang+liu+yiming&source=bl&ots=LsXwYgIBI0&sig=o8CCX5DKX2XMIR0CsRi2JyV-zRI&hl=en&ei=dnKuTq-6NoPa8AOA2YjcDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Liu%20Huayang%20liu%20yiming&f=false they are shown seperately as well. I am certain now that they are two different men. Thanks

  11. Posted

    Hey everyone, I am trying to figure out whether the author of the book "Cultivating the energy of life" Liu Huayang the same as the author of "Awakening to the Tao" Liu I-ming? I believe they are different people but I could be wrong... My evidence to support this is on the left side of this site http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n85-331645, there are alternative names of Liu I-ming. Also the life of Liu I-ming seems to be different to Liu Huayang according to http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/Liu_Yiming and http://tao-meditation.blogspot.com/2010/11/zen-master-liu-huayang.html. The only resemblance of the two is that they were born around the same time, which makes me think it could be the same guy.

     

    This is important to me because Liu I-ming never shared any information on any kind of practice for Tao, whereas Liu Huayang seem to have a practice which the Wuliupai school calls it a secret.

     

    Cheers

  13. Posted

    I'm not a teacher/sage/master so.... yeah, I'm just wondering about what your reading recommendations are :)

     

    I would strongly recommend to study Liu I-ming (his commentary on Chang Po-tuan and the I Ching surpass all other texts that I have ever read), Confucius (reading as much as you can on this guy), The Essential Mengzi (other commentaries can be misleading), Journey to the West (Anthony C. Yu's translation exceeds every other book that I have ever read), Dharma Jewel platform Sutra by Master Hsuan Hua (few things in this book wont appeal to westerners but best Buddhist book I have ever read)[http://www.fodian.net/world/Platform-Sutra.pdf].

     

    Liu I-ming is an 18th Century Taoist adept and he in his subtle harshness warns about people falling into sidetracks and false teachers, time and again. I have few of these books in pdf. Send me a private message and I will send you the links. Cheers

  15. Posted

    Reading Lui I-Ming changed a lot of things for me too and I am still studying and trying to understand his works, the worrying thing though is that he stresses that it is almost impossible to get anywhere without a genuine teacher and he lived in a period of time in China where Taoism was relatively prosperous and he still couldn't find a genuine teacher until near the end of his life despite searching consistently, so where does that leave us now in our era now that many Taoist teachers have been purged? It makes me think that at during this era in time we might be more likely to find genuine high level teachers within Buddhism, yet I think I do prefer the Taoist approach in many ways so the search continues.

     

    Very true words indeed... I believe you too are beginning to see the importance of teachers and companions. Keep reading my friend and hopefully you will see something in the teachings that I fail to see... Good luck!

  16. Posted

    Hi fatguyslim,

     

    I have whittled my social circle down to a few people for the reasons you mention. Better to have a few real friends than a lot of people who drag you down.

     

    I don't think you need a teacher or friends with awesome virtue, since you have the classics to work from. Rectitude, purity, integrity, and virtue are necessary at a stage of personal development, but few people in today's world are at that stage, and even many powerful internalists lack those qualities. But i think if a person develops themselves according to virtue and integrity, they will attract people into their lives who reflect this. Its a law of attraction, so you can count on it. In other words, its enough just to work on oneself from books and let life bring to you who it will.

     

    Most often i have found with self-proclaimed daoists, there is a tendency to indulge in lifes pleasures and intoxications, thinking that is dao. And it is! But there are very refined stages of being beyond that, and to access them, i Think that one has to put the tendencies to indulge down, and get serious about their integrity. Some people who get close to serious about integrity will divorce themselves from the world, eschewing society, and online forums like this one, in favor of just being a hermit. There are all kinds of people though, and i hope that since you put out such a sincere beacon, you will get something excellent in response.

     

    I have long recognized the need for integrity, but only lately in my development have i really put down those things and attitudes which were keeping me from realizing a robust integrity. So i am no expert in the subject, and all the above jabber is just how it seems from my point of view. Best wishes in your search for "true people" i have found that misguided people are common. And even those who think they are virtuous and say they are virtuous are more common than those who are actually living according to the old way. But the rewards of living a nice clean life with no loose ends more than make up for all the nonsense that ones old friends, habits, and haunts were filling their head with. So its not as hard to walk away from "the dust of the world" as it seems when youre caught up in it. I hope you stay firmly on the path and that teachers and friends avail themselves to you as you cultivate your virtue! Blessings!

     

    Thank you and I will keep your words in my thought. It was very kind sharing your views as it helps a lot. Cheers

  20. Posted · Edited by Apech
    Copyright material link sremoved by Mod Team

    Here are some of the books that I have read over the last 2 years, hope you guys enjoy it. Had to type the whole of Understanding Reality and The Essential Tao coz I couldn't find he right version online. If you find any mistakes please let me know. Both Understanding Reality and The Essential Tao are written in British English so please don't complain about the spelling mistakes. Thank you

     

    ******** Reality by Liu I-ming - Translated by Thomas Cleary.pdf

     

    *********

     

    *********** Taoist I-Ching by Liu I-ming - Translated by Thomas Cleary.pdf

     

    **************

  21. Posted

    If you hound his interviewers maybe they'll put you in contact.

     

    I thought he was a professor somewhere too.. Overall I got the impression that he tries to maintain privacy

     

    I have sent them interviewees an email in the past and I have never heard back from them. I wonder why he is so secretive?

  23. Posted

    I have been, for the past couple of years, reading Cleary's translation on many Taoist books and I have many questions that I would like to ask him. But as I expected... it's practically impossible to find any contact information on the guy. I think speaking to him would definitely clear many doubts in my mind. So if anyone can please find some information on him then please can you post it on this post? Thanks