Green Tiger

Shamans of many cultures refer to all techniques used to enter altered states and thence alternative dimensions as their "horses" -- the meaning is close to "meditation," which (contrary to popular belief) is a "means of transportation," a method whereby you "get somewhere." Meditation is as valuable to the meditator as a horse is to a rider, but riding a horse "recreationally" vs. riding a horse because you have somewhere to go are different activities. Shamans don't ride horses recreationally.

 

A shamanic "horse" is the method of meditation -- whether rhythmic drumming, spinning, not-doing, ingesting entheogens, "dreaming," fasting, singing... techniques are numerous, different shamans use different ones, the same shaman uses different ones for different purposes... but they all are thought of as "horses" (or occasionally other beasts of burden, sometimes jaguars, sometimes dragons, sometimes cranes...) used to teleport the spirit (and occasionally the body too) to other realms. A "windhorse" is a fast one. (There's a frog in the rain forest in Peru... a "windhorse" for hunters. Takes one elsewhere instantly. The "elsewhere" is not different from where you were a moment before, but you are a hundredfold faster, your eyesight is a hundred times more acute, your sense of smell, touch, hearing... everything amplified. So this "windhorse" takes YOU out of your ordinary body and transports you into an extraordinary version of your body, without interfering with your spirit or the dimension you are in. Just one example, out of thousands.)

I hadn't heard much about Chinese use of entheogens. It seems like most entheobotanists study South American culture or African culture for their rich and diverse shamanic use of plants.

My impression has been that a Chinese shaman was more likely to use things like movement, chant, musical instrument, or some form of meditative self-hypnosis. While that may be true, there does appear to be some evidence that they used cannabis in a ceremonial context, although not how you might expect.

By the fifteenth century B.C. the Chinese book known as the Rh-Ya was compiled, and in it there is mention of the herb Ma, the Cannabis sativa plant. Not only were there fibers and potent resins employed at this time, but the Rh-Ya describes the first ritualistic or shamanistic use of the plant.

 

The most detailed early account of the uses of Cannabis sativa in early China is to be found in the Shu-King, written in 500 B.C. When the plant grows under favorable conditions, the main stem becomes highly lignified, or woody. It was the practice of the early Chinese to carve this wood into the likeness of a serpent coiled around a rod (not unlike the caduceus or Staff of Aesculpius, which has its origin in the Greco-Roman world and is still with us as the traditional symbol of the physician). This image was used in curing rituals; a relative of the patient beat on the sickbed with the snake rod in order to dispel evil spirits.

 

From Ritual Use of Cannabis Sativa by William A Emboden, Jr.

So did they not smoke it? They just carved it into a snake rod used to beat on a patients bed?

Does anyone know of any other entheogens the Chinese shaman might have used?

I've also been interested in traditional Chinese entheogens, but information is sadly lacking.

I did find some information about a venomous toad whose venom contains DMT. The toad venom was apparently used as medicine and could have been used for enthegentic purposes, but no evidence for that has been found.

I doubt it occurred to the Taoist shaman that perhaps it might be fun to smoke toad venom.

I was trying to 'look under the hood' with another standing posture, Stand in the Stream.

It's interesting how different postures seem to access and activate different parts of the body. When I'm standing in this posture lately, it feels like my rooted leg is being sucked into the ground and there seems to be a tremendous amount of energy coming up through the leg, into my hips and spine.

I'm sure there's some sort of meridian activation going on, but I don't know enough about the meridians to know which ones or why this particular posture might activate them.

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon probably deserves a mention. Lots of good movies listed here. Going to have to add some of them to my list.

Also, these two scenes from Enter the Dragon are classic.

I agree with Yamu. No way to know how much the teacher has "in his stomach" unless you go find out.

 

There is some truth to what Vitalii is telling you, but the fact is that the depth of any martial arts teacher's training is impossible to guess just by knowing what his/her style is. One of my teachers has taught martial arts and qigong (or whatever you wanna call it) to whomever has the fate to end up at his proverbial doorstep for decades. These practices were transmitted to him by a master in China who practiced alchemy in private whilst being a famous teacher of martial arts and qigong in public; my teacher recieved martial, energetic, and alchemical training from this master. My teacher's other master was not a martial artist but a Daoist priest and accomplished practitioner of alchemy. Though he has impeccable Daoist "pedigree," my teacher does not advertise his background or even, for that matter, his existence--much of what I know about him I found out over the slow passage of years. You can easily imagine that each of his students learn very different things from him, and many have no idea the depths of his cultivation. I can tell a similar tale about many of my other teachers and my master. So, ultimately, if you want to walk this path, you just gotta jump in and see who's got what up his or her sleeves, and see what your own affinities will call forth. Combining practice, study, and, to borrow a term from medicine, "watchful waiting" for years and years will allow many things to gradually become clear. You may find yourself with one teacher during this whole time, or you may find that this path flings you to the four corners of the globe and back again. No way to know, so ain't nothing to it but to do it.

Great post, Walker! My experiences have been similar; although my practice hasn't taken me out of the United States yet, it has definitely taken me places I never would have expected when I started out.

I've also found that some of the words we use frequently on the forum like neigong, neidan, meditation, alchemy, ect., really are just vague symbols that represent different things to different people. Some teachers I've met weren't familiar with these terms but practiced them all the same. Some say they practice them but, upon further investigation their practice seems to be quite different from what someone might expect, knowing only the Tao Bums interpretation of those terms.

Money is not wealth. The map is not the territory. Seven Stars Preying Mantis Kung Fu is not the practice. Only the practice is the practice.

Can ya dig it?

This is so absolutely true! When you're barefoot, you really have to remain aware of your surroundings. I assume barefooters tend to use mp3 players less often than "shoddies", too.

 

Contrary to most people's gut feeling, though, for the initial foray into barefoot running, the consensus in the community (and I'm with it 100%) is that a hard surface is best, with the most desireable being smooth blacktop/pavement. Running on a softer surface acts like a kind of ersatz-shoe, allowing you to continue making the same mistakes in running form e.g. heel striking and overstriding. The harder the surface, the less likely you are to land on your heels (OUCH!) and the natural springing action of the foot comes into play. This is where the arches start to become important, along with the Achilles tendons.

 

But this is just for the beginning. Once things get settled, then it's a lot more fun to get off the roads and onto the meadows and trails

 

hmmmm ... split to a thread about barefoot running?

I think a split may be in order, but I also think some discussion of barefoot lifestyle is necessary in a conversation about loss of arch.

If we are talking about someone with foot pain, I really don't think running on a hard surface initially is a good idea. Walking barefoot on a hard surface or in the grass should probably be your first step.

I personally found that walking and running barefoot on a hard surface was more painful, but it could be that it's also more therapeutic. I'm not one to spout a lot of "no pain no gain" talk, but in some cases a little muscle-fatigue-type pain can be an indication that you're working muscles that need to be worked.

Stop if you feel sharp pains in the joint, for sure.

I agree with the barefoot running. You also might want to try rolling a golf ball or a lacrosse ball around under your foot, putting as much weight into it as is comfortable. You might find you have some plantar fasciitis going on. Rolling a solid ball can help break up some of the adhesion.

Also, be careful where you choose to barefoot run. Barefoot running, for me, became an unintentional mindfulness meditation . . . stick . . . stick . . . rock . . . dog poop . . . nettles!

The safest place I've found is on the soccer pitch. It's well maintained and pretty flat. Also, it's fun to kick the ball around a little while you're running.

Not bad for two guys with cellos and a drummer.

I'm 32. I grew up (at least, until I was a teen) saying 'grouse'.

Class of 2000!!!

Some of you may be familiar with the posture Standing in the Stream from Master Lam Kam Chuen's book The Way of Energy. Please see the photo below:

I opened this book yesterday for the first time in a while and I felt drawn to this posture. When I did find myself in it later during a qigong session--WOW!

I'm just curious, does anyone know which energy centers/meridian pathways this posture activates or works with? I'm just curious, but may also be useful for diagnostic purposes and treatment references down the road.

Thanks!

Boffing outside a relationship is just wrong, sad and, potentially; abusive.

The idea being to find one's significant other and then boff away to your mutual hearts' content.

Try TaiChi.

Nine times out of ten you'll be the only guy in the class and all the lasses will have similar interests to you as far as cultivation goes.

 

Chunyi Lin's "good, better, best" distinctions could be applied here.

It is good to have sex with someone with whom you feel a connection. It is better to have sex with someone with whom you are in a relationship. It is best to have sex with someone with whom you are in a long-term, committed relationship.

Also, my tai chi school must be odd. In the 6 years I've been attending, there have only ever been a few female students and only 1 of them has been there the entire time I have. There is another tai chi group in town that is primarily women, but they are also all 50+, so if you're a young guy, might not be the best place to meet ladies.

If you want to meet young women who are into cultivation, I would recommend yoga classes.

That's awesome! I want one of those rings, although I'd definitely want to wear a helmet.

Thanks for sharing!

Wow, you dusted off an oldie but a goodie. Not so much the content but the contributors. I didn't know wudangspirit was a member.

So can they be used to heal illnesses I mentioned?

I think your question is over simplified. You could ask "Can western medicine heal the illnesses you mentioned?" and I think you'll find that it is never a simple yes/no answer.

Can western (allopathic) medicine heal:

-bad eyesight

Lasik surgery can correct some vision problems but not all. Eyeglasses and contacts can correct vision, but you have to wear a device.

-tinnitus

No medicine will cure it but, in some cases depending on the cause, antidepressants have been found to be helpful. Sound therapy can be helpful, but the outcome is never certain.

-mental difficulties due to bad medication (e.g the person is unable to take care of himself, he used to be able to do that)

I'm not really sure what you mean here, exactly, but when you're talking about mental difficulties in general, western medicine can offer some degree of relief but no cure. Antidepressants are almost always prescribed alongside some sort of therapy and even that combination is not always effective.

-ebola infection

There are some promising experimental therapies, but the rate of death is still 68%.

-aids

Again, promising experimental therapies but no cure.

So, as you can see, the answer to your question when we consider western medicine is complicated. The answer is almost certainly more complicated when you consider Stillness-Movement Clinical Qigong & Chinese Taoist Medicine, which operates at a much higher vibrational level.

Centertime, are you in need of some healing, or was this just a random question to satisfy your curiosity?

It was a good one. I could definitely feel a difference in my practice this week. I've got some stuck areas opening up and feel a lot of shifting going on.

I tried the syrian rue/mimosa hostilis version of Ayahuasca. I don't recommend it. I may have overdone it with the rue, but I found it to be very unpleasant.

That's really interesting that it's becoming acceptable for Muslims to take it. Certainly, it should be done in the context of religious ceremony, and the dietary restrictions cannot be emphasized enough. There is serious danger of hypertensive crisis if you eat the wrong things before or after you take it.

You wanna know why I became interested in Mo Pai in the first place? Guess.

You hate newspapers and would love to be able to light them on fire with your bare hands?

I said I was level zero because that's exactly what I am. I haven't yet gotten to where I can begin focussing on the LDT and thereby filling it.

 

I didn't say that MPG was 1000x more powerful. I said that he has accomplished 1000x more than whoever because completing even half of level one is 1000x better than practicing placebo non-sense.

 

I believe what I do about spirits because of what Chang says. And MPG can't save anyone. I can only save myself through thousands of hours of training (from the Magus of Java).

 

There's nothing wrong with having fun and entertaining yourself. It's just that it shouldn't be the only thing you do. Because after your death none of it will matter.

 

Rather than 10 hours a day I think that at an advanced level one should train several days at a time then take a day off. Until then you can only do what you are able.

 

MPG practices as much as you do (30-60 min a day) but that type of training doesn't really accomplish anything. He has said that repeatedly but it seems that you keep ignoring it.

So you haven't actually experienced any of the supposed results of Mo Pai level 1, but you are 100% convinced it not only works but is superior to every other form of Neigong available?

Everything you've been saying in this thread is just a parrot of what MPG told you. None of it comes from your own personal experience.

Why don't you go meditate until you've confirmed what he says and then come back and report that.

Can't believe I missed this until now! What a great review. Was wonderful seeing you again. I hope you got some sleep on your flight home.

Does anyone know what sort of dietary recommendations, if any, the Mo Pai system makes? I recently heard that one Neigong instructor strongly recommends his students not eat or drink any dairy products.

sure, it happens plenty often - when I am actually going to sleep.

 

a fully aware meditative mindset, while it has a minor similarity or two, is absolutely not the same thing.

 

master nan huai chin cautioned many times against this oblivious path towards dead tree zen.

 

a fleeting and poor analogy from a master in an attempt to describe to someone who knows absolutely nothing of the depths he has experienced has been seized upon as an important practice point - enough that these guys parrot it all over and its like in the "fundamental bunch of stuff to learn" category for them, utter fallacy it is.

 

that's why it makes me question the actual achievable depths by one who would hold that up as worthy of repeated notation.

Yeah, I always just kind of figured I was falling asleep sitting up.

I fell asleep when I was getting the taoist medical treatment at the workshop yesterday. I could hear myself snoring.

sorry, that borderline waking sleeping bollocks is going to get called out when its mentioned.

That never happens to you? I'll start dreaming but it's weird, like you're still sort of awake but dreaming. I don't notice my ability to 'work with chi' changing, though.

I was doing 30-60 for a while, but I'm finding it's easier to go longer now.

I'm always trying to push the edge of what is physically comfortable. When it starts to become uncomfortable, I feel like I'm not getting as much benefit.

I did about 90 mins on Saturday and I could see myself doing 90-120mins regularly by next winter.

I don't often time my meditations, but I need about 40-60 mins to get a really good meditation.

I meditated for about an hour and a half on Saturday. That's one of the longer sessions I've done. I was in between waking and sleeping after about 40-60mins. I don't know how long I stayed there. Eventually leg discomfort brought me back.

What's the longest you've ever meditated, Ken?

The new GOT 3 move that focuses on the energy centers was also very powerful. Probably my favorite from that series. Was a pleasure experiencing it for the first time this weekend!