Green Tiger

My tai chi instructor gave a very thoughtful talk last week on this subject and said that there are 5 levels to tai chi as a martial art.  Only at the 5th level do you see anything that can compare to mixed martial arts abilities, and it involves training that looks very similar to mixed martial arts training.  

I ran into this issue with Aikido as well.  Aikido is a very sophisticated martial art that can be very effective, but it takes SOOOO much time and training to become proficient with it.  If you want to become an effective martial artist quickly, tai chi and aikido are not for you.  If you want to learn to use tai chi or aikido as martial arts, you'd best be prepared to devote a lot of time and focus to them.

Even without knowing who these people are, I could tell that guy was going to get slaughtered as soon as I saw what they were both wearing.

 

 

I think this is a great idea, personally. I would be fascinated to see the fight. Is the second paragraph just 'locker-room' talk? I seem to remember 'saving face' is quite big in China. Does Osipczak actually think he will goad Xu into fighting him by calling him a coward?

Yeah, I think he was just being cheeky.  I don't think he expects Xu to fight any more of these exhibitions after all of the backlash this one caused in China.  I honestly don't think he'll do it again.  The weight of public opinion is too heavy against him there.

That said, Osipczak is still training like he'll continue to fight professionally, so maybe he can prove the efficacy of tai chi against other MMA fighters.  Honestly, I feel like he's already proved it.  He credits tai chi as being an important part of his MMA training.  Not the ONLY part, of course, but its been huge for his ability to stay balanced both mentally and physically.  If you watch his fights, his movements are also a lot more fluid than many of the cage fighters.

If you haven't heard, tai chi is under serious fire lately after a retired Chinese MMA guy totally laid the smack down on some supposed tai chi master.  The video made it all over the internet.  The New York Times even ran a piece on it today.

Because of the sacred cow status of traditonal Chinese martial arts in China, all sorts of people have been called for the MMA guy's head.  Some Chinese millionaire even offered huge cash prizes to any TCMA fighter who beats him.  It's attracted a few big names.  

Former UFC fighter, Nick Osipczak said he likes to see tai chi tested, but also said he'll fight Xu Xiaodong if there's going to be prize money.

“I actually like what Xu is doing and think it is good for the current state of martial arts. It will help expose those living in fantasy land, deluding themselves and their students into thinking they can fight. You cannot be a good fighter if you only ever stay within your comfort zone and practise with your students who are inferior to you in skill. Real, hard sparring over many years is essential to not just refine the movements but also to shape the mindset. Otherwise, the moment things start going against you, you will mentally crumble and succumb to defeat. In my last fight my orbital bone was broken in two places early on, but I managed to stay focused, and gain the victory.”

I'm seriously considering moving out of my small midwestern American city in search of some serious internal arts instructors.  I work remotely, so I could potentially move anywhere.  So far, Taiwan has been standing out as a great place.  I've read some articles about studying with Chen Yun Ching at the Fo Guang Shan Monastery in southern Taiwan.  

I've got a lot more research to do before I even come close to making a decision, but I thought I would see what other Tao Bums would do in my shoes.  Who is your dream instructor?  If you could move anywhere and study with anyone, who would it be?

Maybe a side question for anyone who is familiar with Taiwan:  is it really the mecca of traditional Chinese arts that its been reputed to be?  It looks like there are a lot of opportunities to study internal arts there, but its been hard for me to gauge the quality of any of them.  

Where can I find the best instructors in the world?

Hi Ya Mu,

On this thread, Green Tiger and Brian reported noticing other energy bodies during their practice of GOT. What is your perspective of those energy bodies? Is it possible for such bodies to be intrusive to the practitioner? How is it different from ghost sighting? My intention is not to denigrate but just to find the info.

 

thanks,

sshubh

sshubh,

I still distinctly remember the incident I posted about.  The image wasn't very clear, so maybe it was like a ghost sighting.  It just looked like a translucent shape moving through the room.  It didn't seem to really interact with me in any way.  I just saw it moving.  I got some anxiety about it, but that seems to be something I'm prone to have anyway.  

Some other S-M practitioners advised me to use our shielding practice for protection from anything unwanted, and that has certainly made me feel better in times where I felt anything invasive.  Particularly from those pesky humans who are always trying to invade my personal space at the local brewery.  

GT

This is a long video but it's very interesting.  His conclusions are basically that modern people don't exercise their jaw muscles enough and suffer from a slack jaw condition.  He suggests that people should keep their mouths closed and their tongues on the roof of their mouths.  

Tongue on the roof of the mouth?  Where have I heard that recommended before?  

He suggests it will make you prettier. 

That's an exciting opportunity.  What questions would you like to ask him, Charles?

I know a few people around here are really excited that this video mysteriously surfaced recently.  Thought I'd share it here in case other Bums are interested.

If anyone is familiar with this style, I'd be interested in reading your comments on the Grandmaster's performance.

How far can one go in self healing (physical-emotional-mental), if one only practices the DVDs (GOT1, GOT2, SECA) with out lineage energy or workshop.

Your mileage will be unique to you.  Have you been working with the DVDs?  

In my mind, wuwei is about ripples. As we grow, we become capable of creating larger ripples. As we mature, we become more aware of the way our ripples affect others and the way others' ripples affect us (with the distinction between the two becoming progressively less certain). As we gain wisdom, we view ripples from a more subtle perspective and increasingly only create them or interact with them with intent.

That's a really fantastic and novel description, Brian.  Thank you!  I've been thinking about this aspect of the practice a lot lately.  Being able to feel other people's "ripples" is a really valuable ability, in fact it may be the most useful thing I've learned from the practice because it really has day-to-day application. 

On the flip side of that coin, feeling other people's ripples is a lot like hearing them speak.  It can be really informative, but it can also become annoying. 

I have read Damo Mitchell's book and I loved it.

 

Since I'm still new to all this, please, let me ask you experts / senior practitioners:

 

In order to practice Nei Gong (internal form) is it always necessary to train as a martial artist meaining to combat others, to fight?

 

I've seen some of Damo's videos and in some is shown what it seems a SEAL boot camp... Does one need to train this hard for internal / spiritual gain?

You might want to qualify "internal/spiritual gain".  What, specifically, do you want?  It's important that you know. 

“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"

"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to."

"I don't much care where –"

"Then it doesn't matter which way you go.”

― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Powerful stuff.

I do understand this. I merely would like to know if anyone on this forum has actually had these burn marks appear. Doesn't matter which system they practice, or what the goal of the system is. If anyone has, please speak up, if not, then I guess it will remain in the "could be possible" category indefinitely.

Why do you want to know?  Let's say, hypothetically, that I've experienced this.  What difference does it make? 

Hello,

I was recently reading through Shadow Strategies of an American Ninja Master by Dr. Glenn Morris.  In the book he seems to present the origins of Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu in a chinese style called Spider Kung Fu.  He says that some of the Kamae (Basic Postures) in both Bujinkan and Spider Kung Fu are the same.  He also says that the style was a secret style used to protect chinese emporers.

 

I have  searched google, amazon and youtube and only found a few obscure references to this kung fu style in forums. 

 

This was probably the most helpful link i can find.

 

 An inspection of the linked site shows no references to spider kung fu. 

here are another link

 

 

This speaks of a movie. 

 

 

Does anyone know anything about this style of kung fu.  Are there any books, or dvds?  Any info about qigong forms or emphasis in training (internal vs external). 

 

Most of the links indicate that it is a shaolin form that is only taught to masters.  This may suggest that it emphasizes internal kung fu.

Heres the fight scene with the spider kung fu guy in challenge of death.

You can clearly see him using hira no kamae and shizen no kamae (Taijutsu).  Mostly theatrics.

Ooooh, a secret style used to protect Chinese emperors?  Never heard that one before . . . okay, maybe once or twice.  Not saying it isn't true, but there are a lot of legends that include that same line.

I've never heard of a spider style, but there are thousands of obscure styles that were kept secret within families or boxing schools.  I definitely wouldn't be surprised to find that several 'spider' styles exist. 

You certainly couldn't go wrong by seeking out Y.C. Chiang.  He clearly states on his web site that he teaches Wild Goose Qigong, and that is a really nice form.  You'd get loads of benefit from learning it, and heck, maybe if you impress him, he'll give you all the spider secrets.

Behold, more poorly choreographed spider antics!

I put my QiGong teacher on the spot and asked her specifically whether, in general, practices that lead to immortality do so at the cost of a shorter physical life span.

 

She admitted that they do.

And how would you characterize the difference between practices that lead to immortality and other practices?

what about the interview?

I got one response in June 2014 saying he would do it.  I've sent two follow-up emails with no response.  If you'd like to send him a reminder, you can use the contact page of his web site. 

Bernie 2016! 

Here he explains his experience with cold and around 2:00 he mentions tummo and how he started practicing it at one point:

That's interesting. I wonder what tummo resources he had. In more recent interviews, he seems to downplay any formal teachings and credits the cold almost exclusively. I wonder if that has anything to do with the $200 online courses he's now offering in the Wim Hof Method.

Here's a recent Ted talk where he discusses how he started his training.

Wim Hof doesn't really do tummo. His techniques, as far as I can tell, come from his personal experiences with the cold. He has developed it to a freakish ability, but he has also trained people to become immune to viruses following his technique in a very short period of time. 

Yeah, he was trained by the cold, not by monks.  He learned to breathe in the cold, he learned to exercise in the cold, and he learned to shut his mind off in the cold.

He says he read 'many books' but maintains that 'real knowledge is within you'.  He discovered his method by exposing himself to the cold and finding the deeper connections within his own body. 

You don't get real power with any method that can be written in a book, IMO, you get real power by breaking yourself against extreme adversity and finding out what you're really made of.

Here's the video from Vice.  Good stuff. 

Ya Mu,

   I just found this thread.  Did not read all 29 pages, so perhaps my question is a repeat:   For someone with only basic exposure to  Qigong,  what is the step by step incremental learning, in your system ?  How much each step would cost ?  I assume each step requires attending your workshop, since you have mentioned that it is the only proper way to learn your system.  Since i live far away,  if  learning from your DVD is of  use (as a beginner to your system),  let me know what is the use in purchasing your DVD as opposed to  coming to one of your workshops.  Thank you.

I think this has been covered somewhere, but, from a practitioner standpoint, it is very beneficial to work with the DVD to begin with.  I worked with the Gift of the Tao I dvd for a few months before attending my first seminar and I think it helped me to get more out of the workshop, but practicing on my own was not nearly as powerful as practicing in the workshop.

You could, potentially, only work with the DVD, but I don't think you're maximizing the benefits of the system by doing that.

hey guys i am new to this i have finished reading the magus of java and i need some help understanding what is required for level 3......

If it is your karma to find the instruction you seek, you will find it.  If it isn't your karma, you won't.  Keep in mind that you didn't get to this place on your own.  You've had a lot of help along the way.  Trust that you will continue to be guided along the path.

Seek, but don't seek blindly for some ideal you're hung up on.  Listen!  Listen and look to see what the universe sends your way.  You may discover something amazing, but entirely unlike what you set out to find. 

Mr. Chuckrow's article is an interesting read, but I don't think it is going to help me improve my push-hands technique.  Just because you understand the vectors and equations doesn't mean you'll be able to feel them. 

Scott's content is more focused on getting you to understand the sort of sensations that indicate progress.  It's more visceral than it is intellectual.

From scotts blogg.

 

In light of my own teachers work, other teachers I've met and my own work I find this statement odd..

I think it would be more fair to say that their  are few teachers working at this level, not many people have had the opportunity to train either with a teacher directly or one of their students.  

At this point  there are teachers coming out trying to show and explain what and how they feel it works.

The Chinese or traditional teachers tend to be more consistent in this aspect, only now are they starting to open up and share their crafts. Many can be found on the web,  mostly explained in Chinese.

 

I have found its not really something that one can understand there are many ways used to explain it.

It is something through practice one can come to know and get.

 

 

http://www.chuckrowtaichi.com/ChengCh.7.html

 

teacher chuckrow, 

 

Has some good explanation using physics 

Although there are some aspects I feel he does not touch on, his explanations can be applied to most of what is questioned on the net in clips shown.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.chuckrowtaichi.com/ChengCh.7.html

 

There are lots of examples of this type of force being used on the net, the clip shown was a demo or part of their training.  How it would be used against someone else is not the same, there would be no time for the other to react with what they felt.

 

The groans, or sounds are involuntary reactions to the the persons center being affected.  

 

some clips showing some of the same process's in use in a  non martial way, focusing on the principals involved.  Its important to note when it dosent work, and when it does.  This will help in understanding why it does.

 

This clip also  shows the processes by which the students learn, understand and correct themselves, though this understanding.    

 

"its not intuitive"    many things shown on the web relating to IMA can be explained, even in person feeling it being used it may not be understood what happened or how,   "its not intuitive" 

Awesome!  thanks for sharing. 

Scott Meredith recently wrote a blog post that covers this topic really well.  He says, 

The real Tai Chi "push" does not use any physical force beyond the 4-oz "nudge" that I talked about in JUICE. If you want to call that a physical push I guess you can, but the key distinguishing point of real Tai Chi is that the physical force of the nudge gesture is in no way adequate to directly account for the physical reaction of the target person. That's the hallmark of real Tai Chi. The guy's own tension blasts and moves his own body.

How do you do that?  According to him, it is a simple, 4-step process. 

So, without using yin/yang concepts and meridians (which actually are operating but hard to realistically conceptualize) I explain the way the process feels as the TILT model:

 

TOUCH (various places on him, lightly, Tailor's Touch, until you...)

 

IDENTIFY (his tension)

 

LOCK (his tension with your energy)

 

TRIGGER (his tension with your energy)

 

Note that this does require physical CONTACT (it's not ling kong jing) but NOT physical force. I understand it's a hard distinction to grok.

You can read the full post here.

EDIT: to remove videos and add emphasis via bolded lines.