henro

I'm studying Chinese medicine right now in Los Angeles. My school is heavy on qigong, but the others in town are not. They do all have some cultivation requirements though.

I looked into a couple schools in China, none of them had any kind of cultivation courses in their curriculum. When I asked one of the advisors about it she said that's what the park is for in the morning.

But to the average lay person who wants good health and is not under a master, long term retention is unnecessary, and even potentially harmful (stagnation, heat, ect...)

and prostate trouble. . .

BS. Look at Mantak Chia. How the hell did he survive with semem retention for so long?

 

What the OP should do is to cut down the amount of food he eats until traces of physical addictions are gone from his system.

 

Just look at the progress of great practitioners like the shaolin monks and Mantak Chia who practice their respective spiritual paths without semen ejaculation and you have to wonder why some men in the world can practice semen retention while others can't..

 

Genetics? LOL!

Possibly because they learned the techniques from actual teachers, not from books and the internet, and they made it one part of entire life practice - meditation, qigong, diet, tai ji, etc.

IME, retention is far, far overrated.

IME, a good energy system is far preferable than any kind of retention. IME, if someone or any system say that you need to retain to make gains in their practice, then I would say, find a better practice. They are out there.

 

I am not saying that any retention is bad. But do not try to practice retention while stimulating yourself. If you want to avoid release, then abstain from any sexual stimulation. The techniques that teach one how to stimulate themselves sexually and then suggest that you then suppress the urge to release and then pretend to teach you how to move that stimulated semen up the spine or what have you is PURE NONSENSE. Once you stimulate the sexual fluids, They need to be released. if you do not release them, you will only heat up your system and cause damage to yourself. The unreleased, activated heated up semen stays in your body and rots. The physical sensations that people have of increased energy etc... Is only the temporary side effect of having heated up your system with excess yang energy. It will literally burn you out from within.

 

If you are practicing any techniques that are designed to block orgasms like the "million dollar" point. These kinds of exercises can cause severe and permanent damage.

 

So, I don't know what you mean by retention. But, IME, unless you have a physical, qualified teacher who can teach you how to achieve internal alchemy (which is what you mean by transmutation) then I would simply suggest that you reduce your sexual activity and then release when your urges become distracting. There is nothing wrong with choosing to be single and focusing on self-improvement. If sexual drives are strong, IME, you are much better off finding a loving partner and learning how to have meditative and healing sex.

 

Books are great for alot of things, But not when it comes to sexual kung fu,. The vast majority of what you find in books about sexual kung fu was actually primitive forms of birth control that have absolutely nothing to do with internal alchemy.

 

Find a good system and be a normal human. That is all that is required and you can make huge progress..

 

my.02

Had to repost this, as it it my experience as well. You must have a a qualified teacher, and have a very deep practice. Reading books, and bits off the internet can be dangerous. I was thinking when I read the original post - I'd love to do a study in 10, 20, and 30 year increments to follow men doing retention practices to see who had great health, how may now had prostrate problems, and how many had permanently injured themselves.

One of my teachers has spent a lot of time in Egypt doing research, and he often talks about ancient Egyptian art depicting quite a few poses that look like tai ji...... With some quick research on the net I've dug up pictures that look a lot like "presenting the pi pa" and other Yang style tai ji poses.

I have no idea, but it's an interesting theory.....

I thought he started this thread to prove that Qi only means breath, not energy..... from his first post:

Chi Kung are to go through the adjustment of breathing, the adjustment of the body activity and the intend of the mind(breathing, physical, mind) as the fundamental for cultivation. The goal is to enhance the health of the body, mental health, immune system, brings out the ultimate potential of the human body.

 

Please notice that there is no mention of Chi as "energy", here, in the Chinese literature.

Yet 12 pages later he says:

The Chi starts as "Breath" then turns into "Energy".

My mandarin is still quite basic, but I am learning so I'll get there eventually. All the classic literature I have seen, and translated, and every Chinese teacher I have refers to Qi as many different things including breath, and energy, and even farting.... and my wife, who's been Chinese since birth refers to Qi as energy, breath, the activity of the body, and organs, and the energetic vibration of all things in the universe.

Watching this thread has been tiring as I observe a few strong egos trying to assert their interpretations of how things are supposed to be.

 

Here are some things to consider. One of the most basic internal practices begins with using the mind to tune the breathing. Through that practice, the mind and the body become harmonized. It has been my experience that only when the mind and breathing are tuned can the mind then be EFFECTIVELY used to lead the qi to extremities and circulate it.

 

Now, once a person has practiced for some time and developed some ability, the mind can be used to lead the qi by itself. Yet that point CANNOT be reached without first going through the practice using the breathing to lead the qi. It's like expecting a baby to run before it has even mastered crawling. The legs are not strong enough and it will fall flat on its face.

 

Given that, when I read people here saying "Qigong doesn't have to involve breathing." I laugh. It most certainly does. It's like saying, "Drinking does not involve swallowing." Or "Walking does not involve lifting your feet."

 

And for the record, I practice both iron shirt and iron palm, along with dynamic tension exercises from Hung Gar... in addition to less strenuous, 8 brocade style qigong, and tai chi ball exercises.

The thread has kind of moved sideways from Chidragon's initial assertion that Qi is breath, and breath only, and that Qigong is only working with breath. The idea that qigong could be done without any specific breath work was only used as an example to refute his claims.

I don't know.

 

From my perspective, practice is not something I do, with some idea that eventually down the road, I will arrive somewhere.

 

Instead, I practice just to get better at life. If I'm afraid of something, I go face that fear. If I am not comfortable in my body, I get to know my body better. If I have a habit that gets in my way, I pay attention to it, and put myself in the situation that triggers it, practicing calm balance.

Brilliant post !!!!!

Hmmm...

Good question! Why did I suggest to you 1)Waysun Liao, 2)Gregory James and then Gary Clyman finally as number 3...?

I guess the obvious answer for me now is a sub- or halfconscious subjugation to templetao's opinions about Liao and Gary due to overwhelming gratefulness to templetao back then because he helped me so much with his input in the "Mo Pai and Immortality" thread.

If I would try to rationalize now out of an emotional need to justify me I would say that Liao is much more powerful and wise than Gary, that he is the "first source" because he is the head of the Taichi Tao Temple, wields the ultimate knowledge about Tao and Te and that he has the power to let the power of Tao fill you up so you can skip years or even decades of hard training (as he did maybe to Gregory James) and that Gary's system maybe lacks the final Tao Kung exercises.

All of this are good reasons, but the ultimate and true reason is the first one...a temporal weakness of my personality, to say it clear.

I hope you forgive me for that!

Because it's also true that in the back in my head I was quite sure that you would finally choose as rationally as I did and wouldn't want to waste years to go through the entire Taichi system first to finally get the Nei Kung stuff...and that you would be enthusiastic about Gary's straight-forwardness and honesty. Ultimately, that was the case!

Once again, didn't the whole temple tai chi and Waysun Liao thing get exposed as BS? Run a quick google search and see what comes up, the bullshido guys have had a field day with him.......

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18824-qi-revolution-seminars/page__p__264915__hl__%20qi%20revolution__fromsearch__1entry264915

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/8757-jeff-primack/

Do they stay like that for the rest of their lives? How do they manage?

#1 - Tonify the kidneys through herbs and acupuncture

#2 - Cultivate the post-natal essence which supports the pre-natal. What you eat, drink, and breathe. . .

#3 - Cultivation practices - qigong, tai ji, etc.

check it out:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/17167-prenatal-jing-and-chi-how-to-cultivate-it/page__hl__jing

Yes, this is true. But the disease process is not 'physical' alone. One can heal the physical or even the energetic body as they believe very basic chinese medicine, but it may fail to reach the spiritual and divine healing. The point of the thread seems to really be about those higher levels; if someone cannot move beyond the physical level then, well, they are stuck to describe and deal with physical issues.

Absolutely, I just wanted to clear out what appeared to be a semantic issue. . .

I think what some people are calling shen here is the spirit, as satya ram has described. But others, especially when they speak of vitality are talking about the shen stored in the heart as in Chinese medicine.

According to Chinese medicine the heart manifests in the face, and that's where the blood circulation comes in as others have mentioned. If someone comes in with pale complexion, and pale lips we might consider Heart Blood Deficiency depending on the other symptoms. Further if they're having palpitations, insomnia, or vivid dreams we would draw the conclusion that the heart blood deficiency is disturbing the shen, and prescribe points and herbs to address this - nourishing the heart blood, and calming the shen.

神 shen, 2nd tone, - spirit, can be all five of the zang organs spirit combined - hun in the liver, yi in the spleen, zhi in the kidneys, po in the lungs, and shen in the heart.

Messing with nature not so good. . .

There's a story about a popular yogi in India. . . . he and his students were practicing outside when rain clouds started to move in. He had siddhi's that allowed him to affect the weather. So he made the clouds pass without a drop of rain, and all the students were impressed and happy.

Not long after a farmer came to him, and said "did you do that?", and he said "yes, I wanted to protect my students and allow them to continue their practice".

Soon more farmers showed up, and explained to him that their crops will be affected, the land needed the rain.

Of course, one would hope that everyone is safe, but fires are a natural part of the environment here in the southwest.

It's 2 different studies and they really mean fluctuation when they say fluctuation. But still, your paper is GOOD NEWS.

 

 

Full papers:

 

http://www.zju.edu.cn/jzus/2003/0302/030219.pdf

 

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Endocrine_Response_to_Masturbation-Induced_Orgasm_in_Healthy_Men_Following_a_3-Week_Sexual_Abstinence.pdf

and notice that testosterone levels continue to drop through day 16. it would be interesting to see what happens over the course of a year. If it ever comes back up, or if the body, in use it or lose it mode, keeps dropping the level.

Non, perhaps in your desire to practice retention you've thrown yourself into chemical imbalance ??

Can I hear more on this?

Once a month ejaculation?

I think it's interesting.

Cleaning the "pipes."

And more importantly, do they (KAP) have any science on this, is it a historical lineage thing, Chinese or Ayurvedic text, or is it something they just came up with ??

Thanks for the replies!

 

Those books and links look interesting, although I'm specifically looking for ways to cool the organs. Have any of you used Mantak's healing sounds and been able to verify they cool the organs? Is that a legitimate practice? I didn't want to start doing something until I know it works, given all the controversy. It's very hard to find regular time to practice as it is, given my crazy schedule, so I'm really looking to first verify whether it's an actual, true practice and not something Mantak Chia made up. If it's legit, I'll make time for it. I just didn't want to start devoting time to something only to discover it's not even a legitimate thing and therefore end up wasting time I don't have when it doesn't work.

The controversy with Chia seems to stem from two trains of thought - the first being that his system is a conglomeration of many practices, and for some, where did these practices come from ? The second issue, and probably the most written about, is the injury some people have caused themselves by reading books about Taoist sexual practices, and attempting these practices without a teacher or doing any of the basic foundation work. I don't think either of these issues invalidates Chia's system as a whole or any of the individual practices, especially where those practices existence and effectiveness can be verified elsewhere.

I've looked at Mantak Chia's stuff, and a little bit of Clyman's, and both kind of turned me off for different reasons. . . I certainly didn't feel that Clyman had any authority over Chia or should be passing judgement about another qigong teacher's practices.

That being said, the Healing Sounds meditation (and many others presented by Chia) show up in other lineages, specifically Hua Ching Ni's. We learned the healing sounds in my medical qigong classes at Yo San.

I see the benefits of spontaneous movement, and letting the body guide the form. I had the good fortune to work with a monk in the mountains of China doing spontaneous tai ji several years ago, and it was incredible. . . . but, there is a point to some forms, and prescribed movements - and especially yoga asana. The time spent in a posture or going through a form is often required to help the practitioner burn through the stuff going on in their head (quiet the monkey mind), some say to burn through karma, or even just to experience the physical process of muscle exhaustion. Some famous yoga teacher said you're not doing yoga until you hold the postures for at least 3 minutes. I kind of hold that thought when I don't feel like doing the right number of repetitions in my qigong.

So my thought would be to allow your body to guide the movement, but make sure you are conscious of the changes. Are you just doing it because you're bored, don't like the movement, or don't like what it brings up ????

See a Chinese medicine doctor. . . . possibly a sign of yin deficiency, but that will depend on any other symptoms.

This thread is like having deja vu and amnesia at the same time. Haven't we seen this movie before ???

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18562-the-answer-lies-in-the-indianepaltibet-himalaya-regions-afterall-and-definitely-not-in-chinataiwan/page__hl__himalayas

BOL (Tulka), do you work for the SEA tourism board ?

I have seen Dawkins and his fans attack many things, almost anything spiritual that comes their way. If he has not attacked Taoism, it is only because it is not popular enough and not relevant enough to popular culture yet.

 

If Taoism were to get popular, then there would be people like Dawkins denouncing it. If you would like to see Taoist ideas become more popular and relevant, then you should also prepare to face people who would attack it. In my view, to not prepare for these people is naive.

I could care less what Dawkins thinks of Taoism or if Taoism becomes more popular or relevant. Nor would I try to defend it, whatever "it" is, especially if someone were to try to attack "it". The Tao exists whether anyone on this board or in the general public agrees with it or not.

Do we need two threads about Dawkins ?

And what does this have to do with Taoism ??

It sounds like Body of Light has returned from the Himalayas!

I was just thinking the same thing. Welcome back BOL