Bluefront

My point is the same as Z3N in the above post. "You" are not your thoughts or emotions. Or, your "spot on the riverbank", can be found in the silence of the mind. Try listening to the silence and see what you find...

 

I don't find anything because I'm not looking for something specific, or I don't know what that is, so I can't say "found it!"

So what have you found?

Tell me please, what should I look for?

If you don't know what it is, how can you them claim to find 'it'? Since you never knew what you were looking for in the first place.

Listening to the silence makes it much easier to find yourself.

 

What is "yourself" and where did you find it?

I have been searching for it too, although with no success so far.

Very good idea. I freakin lost it yesterday completely. It was like the insight was just more of a high, but I don't think so. I'll keep seeing if I can find it. It was too amazing to just give up.

I would say searching is the opposite of surrender, so good luck!

Your entire post is false according to you.

You are correct, that was pretty much my whole point? =)

Otis, I get really confused by what you are saying. What the hell are you plugging yourself into, and why do you believe that you need to, and what are you in the case when you are not plugged in then? Dead?

this Buddha, is something I cannot view, because my presence is precisely what keeps its unity from taking place

Nonono, your belief in a separate presence is what's making you THINK that it's not taking place, when in reality it's always here. Look at whatever you think is keeping you separate.

The ego only appears to exist because it identifies with things that actually do exist. For example the body:

There is a body (fact) - This is my body (Ego claiminig ownership)

This is not just a game of words. You say that 'you' are body, when in reality there is just this human piece of flesh and bones. Tell me, is there somebody making your heart beat? Or a thinker that thinks your thoughts? Where is this you that you claim your body to be?

Some things actually exist, while others don't. All thoughts are just symbols. Symbols pointing to something other than themselves. All thoughts are false. Every thought you think is false.

Let's say you get smart, and go "But these letters are black and appearing on white background, that is a true thought"

Actually the letters are much more. Black on white background sais nothing. What about the form, the shapes, meaning etc?

Well, you can go on listing all features of the letters for 2 hours and still don't get a accurate representation of them. You would need to think and think and more thoughts to compliment each other. But no single thought is a true representation of whatever it is pointing to. The letters remain the same regardless.

Thats why you just have to LOOK!

NOT THINK!

Informer:

Would it interest you to answer my previous post?

People that get catatonic zombies when trying to look at awareness are simply misinformed, or they haven't really bothered going all the way, or they simply don't care. Just see how the seer can NEVER be the seen. Awareness can never be a object of itself, and doesn't need to in fact, since everything is already it. Subject can never become the object.

Truth can never be expressed, since being non-dual it cannot be conveyed dualistically as the object of a subject.

That's why everyone should get these alarm bells ringing as soon as they reach an ultimate statement.. I am this, I am the soul, I am awareness etc etc. If you think think think and arrive at this cozy identity then.. well, you are just deeper in the mud than you were before.

You are what observes, not what you observe. - Buddha

Let me remind you that the perceived cannot perceive. - Huang Po

No I am not trying to put you down, what would be the point of that, from your perspective that would be an impossibility. Although your words are telling a different story . . . as if you are offended.

 

I am trying to get you to consider where you went wrong, because you have.

 

You are not promoting Anatta, (not-self, doesn't exist) You are promoting Ruthless truth (no-self, don't exist) which there is an obvious and discernible difference, which would be as clear as day if you were ready for such a teaching. Let alone teaching others.

 

You never did answer my main question which is how any spirit or soul, or anything could exist if what you claim is true.

 

You are portraying sock puppet and avoiding the real question.

 

FYI, that spirit is what you are really, I know you won't take my word for it, just LOOK. Unless of course you make that an impossibility, which you have.

It seems like you have had some kind of experience with RT. So have I some time ago. I don't care about them at all though, and do agree with them being a bit too cult-ish at times. But there is really no difference between their message and anatta, non-duality and so on. Look at the moon, not the finger pointing at it. Who gives a fuck about the finger!

To me it looks like you are clinging to this concept of soul or spirit out of desperation. You try to fit this soul thing in every where you can. Is this some kind of cozy concept of a super identity that you can always fall back on when things get rough?

Can you explain, for the sake of clarity, what you mean when you say "Soul" ?

"There is nothing to be found that is the 'I', but this fact does not imply that the 'I' does not exist. How could it? That would be silly. The 'I' definitely does exist"

- Dalai Lama - How to see yourself as you really are

I don't really agree with this. Or I'm not sure exactly what the Dalai Lama is trying to say here.. all I know for sure is that his English sucks really hard, and I wouldn't take things too literally, word by word from him. In the end nothing should not be taken like that, but experienced for oneself. You have to do the math

The 'I' only appears as a thought (impermanent) and has no existence in and of itself. If you talk about it, there it is. As a thought. But the thought is pointing to something false. That is ok. This eventually boils down to seeing the false as false, and true as truth.

Sounds great.. Nice experiences, now just beware of clinging to them.

Always go FURTHER.. never stop.. always further

RT is cool because it helps people see that when they look for the self, they can't find it.

It's really easy to just swap one identity for another. Before you realize it you have assumed the "i have no identity"-identity.

Believing in no self is also lame as fuck. Then you just end up walking around like a zombie thinking "THERE IS NO SELF"

What you resist, persists. If you deny something, you imply that it exists. Get it?

"NO SELF"

NO ... what?

In the end, this "problem" appears due to language being dualistic in nature and subject to the play of opposites.

Up - down, me - you, low - high, self - no self. Etc.

Therefor the ONE, the void, emptiness, the non-dual (call it what you want) cannot be put into words. Thats why thinking about any of this can't help one to realize that there is nothing to realize. Direct experience is the only thing that matters

Again I highly recommend reading/listening to the books of Jed McKenna since they help immensely with de-mystifying this whole deal. This is also a great website: http://theendofseeking.net/

We have to understand that everybody has a thousand different ideas of what enlightenment is and isn't, and most of it just empty assumptions. Like discussing a color one has never even seen, or a smell that one hasn't smelled, although it's always present and available.

The biggest misconception seems to be that enlightenment is a state that one can reach somewhere distant in the future. Enlightenment is always here.

The buddha guy said something like "Everything already has buddha nature"

I see "enlightenment" as seeing what is true. The truth of existence. Seeing what is real and what is false, and being able to act from that point of view.

And if one drills it down to the core, the ultimate lie of the human experience is the belief of a entity called "Me" that exists separately from the universe. The buddha talked about anatta (no-self), taoists call this non-duality and so on. One without a second. It's all the same thing.

This belief in a separate "me" is the root cause of human suffering. It's what creates the sense of separation from the universe. And this sense of separation is what fuels the human to seek and find an end to it. Enlightenment is the end of seeking. Everything else is bonus.

The only thing standing between someone and enlightenment is fear. It's the fear of no-self. What would be left if I don't exist?

The irony is that, if there was a self in the past, it will exist now and in the future too. So nothing changes.

If there is no self, it has never existed and never will. So again, basically nothing changes.

The fear is from the belief that one will go from a state of SELF to NO-SELF. This is wrong. No-self has always been here. Nothing is removed, nothing is added.

You just have to see which of these two is true. It can take just a few seconds of honest looking. If you carry alot of bullshit it might take longer. But you don't have to meditate for 25 years or do yoga or tai chi for eternity.

Ask yourself, does this experience have a separate experiencer, or is there just the experience?

Thanks these are all very excellent suggestions. I don't know of any qi gong specialists or bodyworkers here. Even if I did I would consider it a bit too much. It's not like this is killing me. I also prefer to take care of this myself.

I meditated and focused on experiencing the pain with calm and equanimity. So far it has seemed to help a bit. Or it's the ibuprofen doing it's thing. Probably both. I'll try tomorrow when I have no ibuprofen in my system so I can experience the pain as it is. I'll continue with it daily anyhow until I'm good.

I think standing meditation in Wuji hugging tree posture would increase circulation in the upper chest area (correct me if I'm wrong). I'll definitely give this a try in the morning though.

Thanks again. Can't believe I forgot about just experiencing the pain with equanimity. Sometimes the most simple things are forgotten.

..

I thought that I might have misunderstood you. Let's not care about right or wrong here. Let's just flow with this discussion

"You are "It". I am "It". I hope that helps to clarify things."

Well, what do you refer to when you say You, Me & I here? Who/what is "It" ?

PS

You don't have to explain yourself for being "cranky". It's life bro

You can hit me with anything, I won't take it personally. Promise! : - )

Thanks.

I'm already doing some massage where I can and I'll give the grounding a try.

Is there any specific posture that would increase circulation around the chest?

I shouldn't do any flowing movements yet, so I'm really hoping there is some good still posture for this.

I am in the Universe and the Universe is in me, how does that contradict anything that Taoism teaches?

It contradicts everything

This is a dualistic view of reality. I'm not that into taoism, but I do know that non-duality is it's central core. For there to be one without a second there can't be anything outside of the one, the universe. Honestly this is very hard to put into words. Actually it's impossible, since our language is constructed in a dualistic manner.

There is nobody to be the universe, and there is no universe to be in somebody. There is just the universe. Make any sense?

I mean, there is no separate self that is distanced from the universe, outside of it, and neither is there a separate self containing the universe, since it only exists as an idea.

Hey

I was jumping of this pretty high cliff into the water and the impact stretched and damaged my tendons and sinews around the chest/neck/shoulder/upper back (mainly at the center of the chest where the ribs are connected though) and it hurts like hell while doing any physical activity, even deep breathing is painful.

Doctor recommended ibuprofen to ease the inflammation and I'm ok with taking just that. I'm wondering if there are any eastern methods to speed up this healing, such as focusing on some specific meridian or some qi gong postures that could help. For various reasons I have to be completely rehabilitated in 2 weeks.

Thanks!

"I walk every day, but never touch the ground; I eat every day, but chew no rice"

What does this mean?

I picture a guy walking in the air and taking in food intravenously.

Does i am that i am count as a answer

You are just trying to give correct answers. What a waste of time. Are you here to feed your ego?

Don't bother answering that, just think about it.

or that i am the divine and the divine is me count?

And who is the divine? Your statement says there is some separate entity that is the divine, what is this separate entity? Actually fuck it, muddy and vague word. What do you even mean by "the divine" ?

Chew on this:

Does control exist? If it does, define it scientifically how it works and operates.

All I can say is that there's an experience of reality. I can't say anything about what/who is experiencing without introducing assumptions.

Before your thoughts about who/what experiences reality, you already had the assumption that there is someone/thing experiencing it.

If you look closely, you will see that what you are looking for, is that which is looking. And it can't see itself since then it would be the object, no longer the subject. Keep this in mind whenever you think you have found "me" or found "no-me", as this will instantly put you back on track again.

Also don't think that thoughts of a self are BAD or WRONG. The concept of 'me' is very real in the sense that it APPEARS, but whatever it's pointing to is FALSE. It's a real illusion, get it?

Regarding happiness, this guy Wei Wu Wei said something very interesting:

"Why are you unhappy?

Because 99.9 per cent of everything you think, and of everything you do, is for yourself.

And there isn't one."

I highly recommend this website:

http://theendofseeking.net/

Oh and by the way, burn everything I said.

Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math. - Jed McKenna

Whoa, thats alot of reading.

I prefer to just take two pieces from the box of buddhist chocolates, anattā (no-self) and anicca (impermamence)

And with those two I'm content, I can take more chocolates if I want but there is nothing telling me to do so.

I will eventually reply in full to this thread, but bluefront has actually given me a lot to chew on and I'm trying to give an honest go at his suggestions before making a full reply.

 

That and I'm stupid busy.

Do this for yourself, you have no obligations to post here or keep us updated. There are priorities.

Don't turn this into a new belief system. This is not about adopting something. Not about reaching some imagined future point.

This is very simple. You simply look. Is there a you experiencing reality at this moment, or is it only assumed, at best only a fleeting thought? You don't look so hard you strain yourself. If you think there is a blue turtle under your chair, you simply look and see it's not there. It's the same kind of looking.

And remember, like yoda said, There is no try!

You can only do or not do. That's it!

Oh, good question. Here's what I found when I went looking. I didn't like your tone much. It reminded me (as I said already) of what my parents would say just before they hit me.

 

And I happen to fully disagree with the idea that one should get rid of oneself (per the buddhist exhortion). So there are 2 reasons at least.

 

If it's of no concern to you why bother telling me to 'stop whining'? I don't get it.

Ofcourse, it's impossible to say "I believe I don't exist"

It would be insane to agree with that.

I'm not trying to push any opinions on you so you don't have to defend yours.

A thought appeared that reminded you of the past. Nothing more, nothing less. But that thought is not you

So, if I take a cue from you on the anger thread, I'll suggest I'll stop being a whiner when you stop being an a44.

It's not in my interest for you to stop whining or not, so let's not get confused. I don't ask of you to be anything youre not. Nor should it be important to you if I'm an ass or a nice guy.

What exactly are you becoming furious about here?

Grass? Softness? Comfort? !!

 

Things to be discarded. Westerners are spoilt and demanding. A good spank, a cold shower, or standing inside a giant vibrating bell works wonders!

 

just kidding...

Damn truth! We are all spoiled beyond comprehension.

Btw, Cold showers are AWESOME. One could say they are grounding, if feeling 100% fucking alive is your definition of being grounded in reality

And always a good thing to challenge your comfort zone

Lie down on the ground. Grass because it's soft on your ass.

End of story

'...f*cking drill it to the end'."

 

Right.

 

With most of these practices I end up with 'I don't know'. To the question 'who is writing this?' the answer 'I don't know'.

 

Any advice on what you do with that sucker?

Yeah stop being such a whiner and find out. Nobody can tell you how to proceed here. This is YOUR path. Your destruction and Armageddon. Nobody will or can fight your battles for you

If there is anything I can recommend it's reading Jed McKenna. Simply because he is a great writer and has excellent talent for speaking about that which cannot be spoken about. His sense of humor is brilliant too, which atleast makes it a fun read. His work could make things clearer. But don't turn for it as a means to an end.

Suppressing anger will cause it to rot and eventually make everything STINK.

Anger should be properly channeled into some other, more productive venue.

Anger can be a great motivator for action and such. This is because when we are very angry there is a high concentration of dopamine in the brain (or it was some other neurotransmitter, not completely sure) which is great for getting of your ass and doing something about the situation which called for anger.

Either hitting the douchebag straight in the face or deciding to get a job rather than sitting at home and wishing about having one, for example.