Astral_Anima

Yup, that'd be it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase

 

So a) how much astragalus is too much (and too often) and how to achieve same effects without the cancer risk? I'd read elsewhere out there, that fasting kicks in processes that achieve longevity as well (you basically switch over from a "reproduction" programme to a self-preservation programme. What's the Taoist take?

That depends on how deep you want to go with such an inquiry. Scientists say they can't find any reason why the human body should die, yet we see so much disease and death (usually involuntary) and premature aging. If fasting activates the "self-preservation mode" of the body imagine how long a "breatharian" (assuming that whole thing isn't just a myth) could "remain preserved"; or even just one who fasts regularly. It's been shown that calorie restriction diets extend life. It also (IME) retunes oneself with themself and their environment. One becomes VERY aware and sensitive. Also it's incredible for meditation.

This whole subject could put one into a philosophical mind-fuck if they begin to question things like "what is food? what function does it serve? why do we eat? what are we? why do we age? why do we die? how does the body run? what sources of energy can the body utilize? what is our potential?"

As for the Taoist take...I believe most "Taoists" would frown upon any great breakthrough or "pushing one's limits to realize truth". Most Toaists I've been exposed to want everyone to live in mediocrity. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

-Astral

Hey all,

Just a quick question. I know reverse breathing is tightening the stomach in the in-breath and relaxing/expanding it on the out-breath. Any changes whether in/out through the nose/mouth?

Thanks

-Astral

yeah what would one get out of increasing pre-natal jing? Perhaps other methods can be found based on the goals of the practice. It may be called different things in diff traditions, or the results that you're looking for may be achieved my methods with other names (instead of limiting yourself to one culture/terminology).

-Astral

 

Anything else to add?

How much time u got fella?

Hi Astral,

 

From looking at the web site it's about teaching people fajin - many skilled martial artists will tell you that you don't need to understand qi (or even acknowledge it for that matter) to learn that as it is mainly a matter of body mechanics, form and intent. 'Internal' simply means that you use the body mechanics of your entire body to toss the opponent rather than by simply swinging an arm around, say, the shoulder joint. Their videos give you a taste of this.

...oh. lol, thanks for clearing that up. XD

I'm not too far from the school. Maybe I'll look in. I doubt I'd go the Ba Gua route, 12 animal forms, lots of young kids training. I'd go the Wudang/TaiChi route. I notice they don't have daily training. Some classes seem to be only once a week. That hurts in progressing.

Well if you do check it out, please let us know your impression of it and/or your experiences. Be curious to see what it's about. It says it's about "internal martial arts" which usually, to me, means "qigong" or "neikung", but as vortex points out he seems to focus more on "optimal body mechanics" rather than "internal cultivation". So it's not clear whether he's just saying that to appeal to the western crowd or what.

-Astral

If you're into "intuitive" and "feel" stuff you may want to look into Yi-Gong or another form of spontaneous movement/adjustment qigong. It's all about intuition and listening to your "body intelligence" (ime).

Also it's best not to get caught up in the idea that many practices are better than a few because usually it's the other way around. Most practices that are publically taught are only preparations for the "higher levels" so generally most public forms of energy work all aim to do the same thing. Just sticking with one solid practice or two complimentary practices will probably benefit you more than practicing a whole bunch of diff ones, otherwise you'll be "jack of all trades, master of none".

Another fun practice that i've picked up and used is sungazing. Check out these two sight's below for more info.

http://sungazing.com/652.html

http://solarhealing.com/sungazing/

Lastly You may also want to try out a raw foods diet. It can be hard at first but

I've found personally it's quite rewarding in terms of energy and positive outlook (you'd be surprised the link between diet and mental health).

Best of luck,

-Astral

http://www.americanyzy.com/content/Pre-Heaven-Power-Method-American-YiZungYue

Hey all,

Just browsing around when I came upon the concept of "pre-heaven" and "post-heaven". I know i've come across that somewhere before and I totally forget the diff so I googled it and this page came up. This guy talked about a form or "internal power" which uses the balls of the feet rather than the lower dan tien and other differences. Anybody ever heard of this guy or this "pre-heaven power"? Can anyone explain the diff between pre- and post-heaven?

Thanks a bunch

-Astral

Edit: I think I read somewhere that "pre-heaven" chi was "yang" chi? not positive on this one.

If this is so, what then of free will? Is our fate sealed in that this "Dark Age" cannot be transformed into an age of enlightenment? If we live in a Reality where our fate and destiny is predetermined based on macrocosmic forces, then we are slaves in essence, no? It's a thought that occurred to me a while ago after I kept seeing the explanations for why things are the way they are being attributed to universal cycles that severely limit our potential...

Caste system dawg. If the peasants get word that they have a choice whether to be a peasant or not and learn that they have the power to change then they'll revolt/flee for sure.

Money: Lets create paper (which now has NO value since the gold standard is gone), and we (the rich) will decide what everything is worth and control the markets/economy and make people think they need this paper so when we make it more scarce they'll be more easily controlled. They'll surely trade any morals or standards they once had because they'll think they wont survive without it. Then we'll have them doing all the hard work because they'll believe it's the only way to survive.

Industry: Lets study psychology and brain chemistry to determine products which will overstimulate the senses and cause people to become diseased and addicted. THEN after making that the "norm" people will no longer question why it happens and simply accept it as a way of life. After that we'll come out with "the best science has" a pill that will suppress the symptoms of their ails (which we caused) which will keep them hooked on that so they can function and cope with their disease.

Media: Lets take advantage of the new "sub-human" consciousness of the people (thanks to the efforts of industry) and make songs with catchy rhythms and we'll put lyrics that play as mantras in their heads which will slowly change they way they think into what we want. Then we'll use TVs and Movies to create associates between the happiness they all want and the things we want them to equate with happiness. Since we don't want people becoming independent and self aware, we'll make it seem like getting into a relationship will solve all their problems. And if it fails because they haven't dealt with their own internal issues then we'll make it seem like the other person "just wasn't for them". We'll make "bad" seem exciting and "good" seem boring, that way morals will degrade and anyone who tries to resist our changes will basically be an outcast and under constant pressure to conform. We'll make self-destructive habits popular just to add insult to injury.

Oh btw this was all discussed over a huge game of Risk

-Astral

From my point of view, my generation is just as bad, or even worse. I'm currently in uni, meant to be a melting pot of cultures. I know very few people who don't scorn spirituality outright and even fewer who actively follow some sort of path. Recently the buddhist meditation classes in the uni stopped because no one was going. It's just the way things are, no one wants to consider the way they live their lives, they only want to consume things. If it can't entertain them, they don't want to know. At least at some point it'll reach its peak and we'll get onto the next part of the cycle. I think.

Well observed and well stated. The media controls not only those who have been in the system for a long time, but also anyone(most people) in it now. It's especially easy to program our youth nowadays. With overworked parents, TV and public schooling is the perfect chance to catch the break they need and let the friendly local government program our kids.

Its sad because the answer is so simple, few of us see it. And for the few that see it VERY few do anything about it. But either way the current way of things is unsustainable and will crash. Then we will either return to nature and live peacefully or take the next step in destruction and...well continue destroying, lol.

-Astral

"Cause the cycle just gets sicker

the more that we sip liquor

and pray that it gets rid of

our problems, it more bitter

yo i'm not a bullshitter man

all that glitters can't be gold

we sold our souls for so little land

now we gotta stop following these fake leaders

stand proud and stop swallowing what they feed us"

yeah women like that jus creep me out, lol. This is kinda the feeling I get when I see people like that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IehtHkjx3IY

As quoted from the famous Mr Higgins (-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6sb-vOFqCU --), "let the others of my sex, tie the knots around their necks"

Yes, most women and men are devolving at a rapid rate, and It's mostly due to society. remember they don't know any better. They're the equivalent of a crack addict. Their spirit is weak, they're experiencing stockholme syndrome. Alot of shit wrong, but...meh. Fight the ones that cause it, not the victims of it. It isn't their they're fault, they just don't know better...(damned kids ) Jus view them as a lost child...you wouldn't try to date/get with a child would you? I believe someone as observant and educated as yourself wouldn't disgrace yourself with filthy mudbloods and hold a higher standard for themself.

-Astral

Edit: oh and it's Venus, they "get freaky" well into their 2nd century on Venus XP

I'm sorry maybe i'm missing something but I believe Non has brought up a slew of good points that my observations support (and perhaps i've simply had some bad observation and experiences, but they remain what I have observed). From my personal experience and observations most women don't actively seek loving behaviour but rather seek other things that the media programs them to associate with love. So many women speak of love but what they really speak of are childish fantasies that they've had since being little girls. For example alot of women tend to rely (whether emotionally or physically or financially or whatever) on men and like to feel as though they're being "saved" or "helped" which is actually just draining the other party and spoiling themself.

Another tendency is the abandonment of love during sex. It may start off loving but once the trance is induced their unconscious comes streaming out as they crave to relive certain aspects of their past which are FAR from loving. For example I've experienced girls who like "choking", being degraded, degrading, hitting, extremely "rough" sex etc. and I will say personally I don't feel comfortable doing these things because I believe it's re-enforcing certain..."things" deep in their psyche. For example dirty talk, what is the point of it? I can understand the idea of expressing how beautiful your mate looks, how good you feel, but the 'dirty' part of the dirty talk is like mantra. Especially in a trance state they are hyper suggestible, so when you say certain things it goes straight into their head and if they're weak (most seem to be) then it'll take root and they'll begin to believe all of this and it will ruin them from the inside spiritually. It's really no laughing matter, this world is alot darker than most realize, lol, but hey, someone gotta laugh and smile to keep the positive energy alive right? plus not EVERYONE is like that, just the vast majority, but I have faith in humanity, I think we're SLOWLY waking up.

The above are my only my personal opinions and observations

-Astral

Edit: If you want to be happy there's one simply but veddy veddy pow-oh-foe rule...

My dad is a neuro-psychology of consciousness professor. One of his conferences this year included an analysis on the outcome of non-dual meditation practices.

 

He told me that the data does, indeed, support this thread's OP; meditation can make you dull! Respondents in the study complained that they were detached from life, disinterested in relationships, not all that happy, and often wished they could go back to their previous way of connecting.

 

Of course I don't think this suggests that all meditation is bad, but I think it's worthwhile considering the data, and how not to go down the same path.

 

Personally, most of my practices are movement practices, and very few have anything to do with discipline. They are joyful expressions, or at least yummy stretches. But even then, I still feel the need for adventurous and truly playful practices in my repertoire, because they, more than anything, bring out the shine.

Once you open your eyes

there aint no going back to closing your mind

Your chosen to shine

Unknowingly frozen in time

Even Xypher wished he could go back to the Matrix even though he knew that he'd be used and turned into a battery. I too have found that the world has little to offer in terms of fulfillment. Happiness is a choice and it comes from within. Once we realize that we don't chase relationships as 90% of people go into relationships thinking the other is going to 'make' them happy or that they can 'make' the other happy. Likewise we don't chase temporary 'stimulants' like drugs or sex or food, nor do we chase sedatives like drugs or sex or food (funny how that works, lol). Face it, society today is one based around stimulants and sedatives (often in one convenient package, lol). We chase cheap thrill because we're unfulfilled, and we make a social life around these quick fixes. So naturally a "happy" "healthy" person will feel like a dove in a flock of ravens O.o (such are jus my opinions/experiences)

-Astral

To live in this world you have to pretty much accept that you're Going to Have to step on other people to simply be who you are and to survive.

 

That means there are no truly good men out there. Perhaps more good than bad, but there's none that hasn't been a solely good person. In this world it is impossible.

 

That's why daoists tell the Confucius people "how can we be good and well mannered and civilized when you're starving? Where's the balance in that?"

 

Why? Because to be good requires literal self sacrifice. Nobody in this society wants to be truly good without self sacrificing, and yes that does mean even dying. Even if for many generations millions of people die trying to be good and then we end up not going anywhere as a society or as a species and we just die off.

This is a good observation, but ultimately an illusion. It is money that makes us feel this way and money doesn't have to be a way of life. It's modern society thats got us buying this lie. Its the ones that control money that want us degrading into people who believe this. And damn has it worked so far, lol. Clever bastards

There will come a time where we will split. There will be those who return to nature's bosom and live off the land and those who follow society to it's next level of enslavement. I believe the raw foods movement helps prepare us for such a transition as I believe it is no longer avoidable. but we will seriously have to reflect and consider what it more important our addictions or our virtue.

And yes I agree the sad state most women exist in. In fact I've found that most women nowadays (21 and below) seem to be similar to the stereotypical male. It saddens me to see humanity in such a state, but it's all the more reason to live as a testament that it's not the way it has to be. Remember to be the change you want to see in the world. Eventually those who can't cope with being human will be eliminated and sent to a different "playground" until they learn their lesson.

-Astral

Thanks for the response everyone.

 

Astral, your one spoke directly to me. I don't mind meditation at all, I like it, it calms me down and keeps me stable as a person, to be dependet upon. I think you're right about the dullness of the emotions. It has nothing to do with meditation itself. I either get too little excersize or are cut off from my emotions by neglecting them. Only about happiness... I actually find that only outer stuff can cause my happiness, rather then inner stuff. Well 50% outer stuff, 50% my inner perception of that external stuff. Or is this an ilusion?

 

I can't just be happy, because of the emotion itself. My happiness is always related to a confident state of mind and one filled with well-being aswell. Positive thinking tends to make me happy, love for everything as "one". Stuff like that makes me feel less, more stable and balanced. This may seem dull for a begin, but I'll have to start somewhere in order to have a more stable happiness, right?

Everything- On a physical level cardio/breathwork and sunlight are important, yes. I'm not going to push this matter but i've also found that alot of "food" actually sedates the body/mind. Raw foods and fasting may not be for you but you may want to experiment with eating less or only raw fruits and veggies and exercising while the sun is up and eating "normal" foods when the sun goes down. Remember that everything you put into your body effects it (on that note you may also want to look into the "sattvic" diet of yoga).

On a more spiritual level well this is a matter you'll have to figure out for yourself. Personally I have found that the stability of one's happiness is relative to their state of awareness and mastery of "mind". The mind is a CRAZY thing (try studying up on hypnosis and shamanism). One of the funny things about the mind is how unaware we are of it. For example. A general rule of the "unconscious mind" is that it doesn't know the difference between what it's told/sees and what really is; which is why the conscious mind acts as a "filter". Or you've heard the old saying, say something enough and you'll eventually begin to believe it?

Well I can only speak for myself on this matter but I have noticed that there are "voices" in my head that sound like me but they aren't "me" talking. I believe everyone has them, when we talk to ourselves unconsciously. Well often times the mind will attach itself to an "idea" and begin to repeat it unless you can become aware of it and detach from it. For example you can feel really sad and worthless and your brain will repeat a phrase like "i'm so worthless" over and over like a mantra and your sadness will continue to increase the more you think of it. Then eventually we may begin to start believing this and it'll effect our life.

Have you ever noticed when you're sad or angry and someone makes you laugh how you get angrier at them? It's because that negative pattern has been disrupted but is resisting. I mean think about it...everyone says they want to be happy so wouldn't they thank that person fro making them laugh? That is the unconscious mind, that is our lack of awareness. If we were to become aware of our goal of happiness at the moment that someone makes us laugh while feeling upset we'd notice the initial anger at them but instead of "react" we'd "respond" and perhaps thank them. But most people are a slave to their emotions, a slave to their mind. In this case "Awareness" is key. Learning to respond rather than react. To remain passive, notice how you want to react to situations and question why.

50% external 50% internal. I would pose it's ALL internal. Any external stimuli would only effect you physically, like getting hit with a baseball bat, the feeling of pain, etc. However it's your response to things that determines your happiness. For example, as a potentially sick experiment, I've trained my body to respond well to pain. I went from avoiding it, to craving it to not really caring whether it's there or not.

Fun fun, but anyway.

Check out these videos below. I've found them to be very insightful and helpful to me, perhaps they may also be of benefit to you.

Sorry this is so long, lol. Hope you find your answers.

-Astral

@ Sloppy- lmao, nice one XD

@JohnC- I agree completely, this type of people appear on the outside to be "nice" but they're just energy vampires.

In response to this silly thread...It seems alot of this still stems from priding oneself on being able to please women (in all aspects of the word). Most men still live under the heel of females. If you stop caring what women think of you, stop living your life for their approval and live YOUR life for YOU then the whole issue goes away. Women do not bring happiness and don't expect to bring them happiness. Happiness between a couple can only be SHARED, not given or taken. That is why "chivalry" is a failure. You cannot make anyone happy, you cannot "save" anyone by being romantically involved with them (obviously yeah it's possible, i'm saying it usually doesn't work ime), likewise you can't make yourself happy by relying on the false promises of the "ego" (having a girl will make you happy, pleasing a girl will make you happy).

Everyone is responsible for their own evolution and enlightenment. The idea of pleasing a girl is like the idea of doing her math homework...sure it helps her out in the short run, but ultimately it deprives her of the lesson and thus deprives her of personal growth and independence. Thats one of the reasons I believe most women are so childish and immature is because they've learned that men will kiss their ass so they use their "charms" to get men to do what they want and don't have to mature, learn and grow.

So next time you think you're "pleasing" a women by acting whatever way you are, understand that

A.) If you're "acting" or changing the way you act just to get her approval you're a "sell-out" and will always have a collar and a leash. And

B.) by conforming to what SHE wants you're depriving her of life lessons and personal growth. By trying to bring her happiness you're trying to cripple her emotionally.

And yes most men get off on the idea of having women "addicted" to them and having women "dependent" on them. This is the least compassionate thing I can think of. If fact if I were Catholic I would call this sort of person a "demon" or "devil" because these types of people do nothing but hurt others while taking pleasure in it.

Forget acting, forget being "good" or "bad" to win someone's approval. Think of the good of the individual. Dig deep. THINK about what will really help them and what will end up hurting them. And while you're at it, remember that cocaine makes you feel REALLY good when you first take it

-Astral

P.S. Over-Ejaculation has actually shown to damage the kidneys, lower the life-force and actually SHORTEN the lifespan. However non-ejaculatory sex has proven to increase the lifespan only because men aren't ejaculating, it's the same as if you were celibate.

And what is "boredom"? next time your "bored" consider why you're bored. Ask questions like "do i need to be doing things to be happy?" "Is happiness only from external things or from an internal state?" "Why am I uncomfortable sitting doing nothing?"

I'll share my personal findings. I've found that when I'm alone, I'm exposed. I get to see myself for who I am and not who I may pretend to be in society. When I was younger I was somewhat "pushed" into isolation and it was hell at best. However from experiencing being alone and being still I learned what "boredom" to me was. To me loneliness and boredom come as a result of not loving/accepting oneself and from being shut off from one's emotions.

Re-dullness, well yeah, lol, duh. The point, generally, with meditation is to relax the nervous system and learn to concentrate the mind. However the typical lifestyle of most people is over-stimulation. We have the over-stimulation of the taste buds and nose via cooked foods and artificial flavours/chemicals, over-stimulation of the eyes and ears via TV, internet and ipods, and of course all of this overstimulates the organs and nervous system.

Now the funny thing about over-stimulation is that it leaves you with a "down-time". This means you get high from it then the high goes away and you're left feeling kinda shitty. But instead of realize the mistake one will go back to that overstimulating thing thinking it'll make them happy again, make them feel good (notice the similarities with a drug addiction). Then people tell you it's "normal" for this to happen so the guilt goes away and we have a society of addicts who'll never believe you when you tell them

Meditation (imo) is not about dulling the senses/emotions, however I do think that it'll force some "down-time" in which you experience some of the negative effects of the over-stimulation one may receive on a daily basis. Likewise I've found that dullness in life is actually CAUSED by being out of touch with ones emotions. Now obviously everyone still "feels" but we usually don't "feel" to our fullest extent. Most of us learn at an early age to suppress alot of our feelings (because modern childhood is often very traumatic) and thus lose that vigor and "spunk" and turn to stimulants to feel alive again.

Try meditation on the heart center (middle dantien). Try imagining a small flame or something very hot and imagine it burning away all of the unprocessed, repressed feelings and emotions, feel it melting away your social masks and pre-scripted responses and your societal programming until you're just you, just pure being and pure feeling. Or you could try a "water-path" meditation method. Kunlun was it for me; but generally these work more on the psyche and bring up alot of the "junk" one's "demons" so to speak, but ime leave you feeling 'alive' all the time.

"Enlightenment isn't becoming emotionless, quite the contrary, it's embracing the full spectrum of human emotions. It's becoming 'truly human'."

Anyway, these are just my opinions/experiences. You'll find your own way. Wish u the best

-Astral

Well depending on why you're fasting...

I've found emptiness meditation is great and that fasting compliments it quite well. I don't know about the middle dan tien (heart center if i'm not mistaken) in relation to hunger physically, but it's true that when you fast it'll open your heart center. You'll begin to feel everything and all the emotions you've suppressed will surface (kinda like kunlun). Once thats been dealt with however emotional eating ceases to be (if it was ever a problem) and after a certain period of time "habitual feeding" will also fade from the neuro-net.

Personally I've found that we spend most of our life sedating ourselves, either with food, TV, video-games, porn, etc. and not alot of time actually LIVING. Fasting will show you what it's like to actually live and i'll say for me it was easier when I did nothing but sleep and play video games but eventually I had to experience life and I realized how great it could be but how terrible it was...

Also if interests you or anyone else reading I believe the secret to fasting, liquid diets and even breatharianism is stocking up on micro-organisms. There was a study shown on this tribe(?) who were subsisting off VERY little during a time of no food and they found this tribe had a SUPER healthy GI tract and that the bacteria were producing upwards of 25-30g of protein a day using the molecule of the air to synthesize it.

Oh and it now hit me, lol. Meditation on the upper elixer field (dan tien) behind the bridge of the nose and also the spot in the middle of your brain + sungazing. Basically I've come to conclude that there's 3 main ways to produce ATP (which exclude absorbing directly from the chi in the environment).

1.) Digestion. This is the best known and most common. However most foods take more energy to digest then the give in ATP. Thats why most food is a sedative. I've found the only foods that don't rob energy are raw foods excluding nuts and seeds that aren't sprouted and including raw milk, eggs and meat (even though I don't recommend raw meat).

2.) Breath. most of us don't use our full lung capacity so we depend more on digestion to bring us the needed ATP. Whatever allows one to fill their lungs more will lower any weakness or desire for energy.

3.) Sunlight. When the pinneal gland is stimulated it can absorb increasing amounts of sunlight and turn it into ATP. This is how people like HRM use sungazing to forego solid food. Also by doing this you can increase your energy to points where you would not believe. Sungazing + Kunlun/Celestial Nei Kung is like insanity. To stimulate the pinneal gland simply focus on the upper elixer field and the point in the center of your brain. Or allow sunlight to enter the lens of your eye (to be safe only during sunrise and sunset)

Then of course you have methods like "skin breathing" ala Chunyi Lin where you breathe with your pores and absorb the energy directly from the environment.

If by "hunger" you mean the rumbling and pains in your stomach...that isn't hunger (IME) that is your body breaking down and eliminating undigested waste (and the stomach and intestines shrinking down to their un-inflamed state).

This is all I'll say for now. Best of luck to you, I know water fasts are hard but the benefits FAR outweigh the costs. I wish you Endurance.

-Astral

Have you checked out the manual for level 3? It's pretty advanced. It's about emptiness meditation and opening the 3rd eye. Yes there's also advanced energy healing techniques like distance healing but going ever deeper into emptiness is what it's really about.

 

Once you master all the levels Chunyi is teaching the rest will unfold by direct guidance from the universe since by that time your spirit wll be perfectly in tune with it and your soul will tell you what to do.

XD Physical teachers can only bring you so far, the universe is the greatest teacher fo sho. I believe that most "methods" are trying to do just this. For example in kunlun Max usually will state one of the benefits of Kunlun is that you're your own best teacher, you won't have to go searching in China or Tibet or India. I believe thats why he calls it the path of "No More Learning" because once you connect with the Celestial Energies you are guided by them and you no longer need a physical teacher. I believe thats the way it may have been intended. Even the corrupted modern-day Bible left behind a gem of the original teachings and that it "God is Within You" "The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You". I think the purpose of methods or teachers are simply to remind us what we already know in our heart of hearts. Thats just my current intellectual spin on it. But yea I do sense Spring Forest is a POWERFUL practice. My own experience has proven that to me, I just prefer kunlun cause I think it's more fun (and resonates stronger with me right now). But yeah i'm not going to try and say one practice is "better" or "worse" than another, it's just whatever fits your personal makeup 9and isn't fake, lol).

Peace

-Astral

Hello Tao Apprentice,

 

 

 

Thank you for your insight. I still have quite a bit of fear in my mind, and it is something I am trying to work on being mindful of.

 

----------------------

 

Astral_Anima,

 

 

 

This seems like good advice...especially about not getting to caught up into it. Fortunately, the Skept is strong with me so I think it will serve me well in staying grounded.

 

I've heard of fire paths and water paths before, but I have not read a description or comparison of them like yours, so thank you for your insight. Both have aspects that appeal to me.

 

 

 

Thank you for your recommendations. I've seen Spring Forest Qigong recommended many times in this forum, so I will need to look more into that. I'm not familiar with Kunlun, so that deserves researching as well. Who's Max, and where can I find his talks? Nei Kung I will need to look into as well.

Hey Cat Pillar,

Max is the teacher of the "kunlun" art. Below are some links where you can learn more. Also I suggest you research this forum for experiences as well. One thing kunlun is known for is bringing up the unconscious "junk" for processing. It's very controversial on this forum, however I find the practice to be of immense benefit personally. Also certain arts are compatible with others if such a thing interests you. I am learning both Kunlun and beginning Celestial Nei Kung because the teachers say they work well together and are compatible (however it's not necessary to study both). The Teacher of Celestial Nei Kung is none other than 5elementtao from this forum. I would definately check out his site spirittao.com and thunderwizard.com for some good info and free techniques(try the HUUL breathe). Anyway, below are the videos and website of Max...

http://www.myspace.com/video/536039937/536039937-videos/105089444

http://www.myspace.com/video/536039937/536039937-videos/105085386

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/kunlun-neigung/

There was also an interview that I couldn't find, I could only find a clip of it (below)

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/104597691

From my understanding the difference between qigong and neikung is that <qi> <gong> is <chi> <work>, while <Nei> <gong> is <internal> <work>. Usually qigong is just based on circulating chi around in your body, Nei-gung is more associated with alchemy and immortality. Spring Forest is Medical Qigong, It works on circulating chi and using it to heal yourself and others. Of course Chunyi Lin (teacher of SFQ) seems much more advanced and could probably teach many more things than what he is making publically available.

But yeah look into things, try things, see how you feel about them. Pray to your spirit guides (they're there, just call them) or any willing immortals to help guide you. Talk to the teachers and students, get a good feel for the people and the practices. You'll find what is best for you.

-Astral

I've heard this warning about Kundalini many times, and respect it. Although, your post made me realize once again, I don't really know what is ego and what is not. All I know must be ego, if I cannot make the distinction.

 

I wish I had a teacher...or, apparently, that I was ready for one...

 

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I'm looking for my path...my Way. I want to be in harmony with the Universe, rather than feeling separate and discordant with it. I want that flowing ease of being, that effortless form of existence. Whatever comes with that is window dressing, icing on the cake. I'm just curious what that path might look like, and whether siddhis are likely to be a part of it.

I hear ya on trying to find your way. Up until recently I was trying to find mine too. Although I'll tell ya, my teacher certainly didnt "find" me, I made the effort to learn what was out there and decided on what resonated with me the most. Most teachers who actively seek students really only have like 2-3 reasons to do so.

1.) They don't want their art to die. In the case of Wang Liping his teachers sought him out to continue the tradition of their lineage.

2.) They're really energy Vampires. They want to be worshiped, they want your time and your energy( and YOUR MONEY!!!). These are usually the ones who go about parading as "Masters" but when asked for "proof" or a demonstration of their "mastery" they give stupid excuses and say you should just be able to "know", basically the same thing with faith and religion. Anything that depends on faith for existence is an illusion/trick/lie. If they can't objectively demonstrate mastery then they have no right to mascaraed as a master.

3.) It's possible some may get lonely and feel isolated and disconnected and thus want to meet others who share similar interests. just a thought, no idea either way.

Personally I believe a true "master" who cares about the individual's growth (and not their own social status) will give the student a practice and perhaps some minor guidance and leave the rest to the student. Ultimately the work is up to you. A teacher can say, sit in lotus pose for 4 hours while focusing on the lower dan tien and it takes 1 min, however for you the practitioner it may take a long time before you reach that level of ability (depending on your current state). It is my belief that genuine masters will simply give you a practice and leave you to do it (unless of course they're trying to measure your progress, or perhaps empowerments/minor healings)

Likewise it's usually a good idea to know what you want out of your practice, why you do it. From my understanding there's two basic labels that paths fall under. Firepath & waterpath.

Firepath, again from my understanding, is a "building" process. It starts by bringing energy from the earth up the spine. Usually it uses alot of "forceful methods" think kundalini yoga. It forces energy through channels, forces blockages open. However it takes alot of dedication and hard work. Think "Martial Arts". This is usually phsyically demanding but mentally pretty safe.

Waterpath, from my understanding, is a dissolving process, instead of building up you're letting go. It starts by bringing the energies of heaven and celestial realms down through the crown and into the body. This is the opposite of force, you have to be able to let go of everything, just relax and let energy take it's natural course. This tends to be very powerful and very fast if one lets it. However alot of people (men especially) have trouble "letting go". From my experience this method awakens the bodily intelligence and allows energy blockages to dissolve and lets the energy "do its thang". This is usually physically pretty light, but causes powerful psychological changes very quickly. Think Shamanistic.

A quick list of most of the practices that I've looked at and seemed worth it and powerful to me, based on my research.

1.) Spring Forest Qigong

2.) Mo Pai/Lei Shan Dao

3.) Kunlun

4.) Celestial Nei Kung (Also check out the "Thunder Wizard" link!)

5.) Stillness/Movement Neikung

Talk to others and see what they recommend and why. Explore different paths and see what each has to offer until you find one that resonates strongly with you. Personally if you're looking for "flowing" and "effortless" I suggest you at least look into Kunlun and some of the talks Max gives. Also I would look into Vipassana (spelling?) or if it's you're calling perhaps look into the Essenes. Best to give energy arts a trial period (usually a few weeks) to give it a chance to work on ya.

Anyway sorry to write an essay and strain your eyes if you've read this long. Best of luck on your Journey

-Astral

Edit: Concerning "ego". This seems to be a new age term that's almost as loose as the word "love". Most "gurus" use it to label any personality traits that don't appeal to them. Most "masters" prefer moldable clay, people with no ability to think or judge, with no personality because they're easier to control that way. Ego, to me, is simply being out of touch with yourself. I don't believe in becoming an "impersonal being" because if everyone becomes impersonal being then wouldn't that go against impersonal being's wishes to create personal beings? But anyway, don't get sucked into the whole "ego" thing. Use Vipassana, contemplate deeply the cause of all things. Constantly observe and question your behaviour, question your beliefs, question everything. Just make sure you stay grounded, lest you bump your head on the way down the rabbit hole

In response to Alwayson's statement that RB is the only known person and Frostofeemptiness's statement that siddhis are up to karma, I pose a question (which of course applies too all here)... What about those of the Lei Shan Dao? Certainly for those who have read Magus of Java, hearing of the now infamous level4 Mo Pai, think about what's involved. You gather energy in your LTT, then you force MORE energy in there, then you mobilize it, then you merge it with the base of your spine and all your "powers" come out. Base of the spine is known to be where the kundalini resides. Not to mention the whole "extremely painful" "risk of death" "Like having lightning running through your body" thing. It sounds to me like THAT is the REAL kundalini. Energy movement up the spine and even 3rd eye awakenings comes just from level 1 that stuff falls short in comparison to level 4.

I'm sure other sects achieve it as well, but it seems to be just a step in the path, a beginning more than an end. Plus why kundalini? If you believe in karma, just be a good person, focus on virtue. If you're looking for immortality go follow one of the daoist schools and forget kundalini, jus follow your teacher (and hey maybe it'll come), if you're doing it for powers...well that should be observed.

With great power comes great responsibility. If you're not in control of yourself, or don't trust you'd use them wisely then it's best to focus on virtue first or at LEAST simultaneously. The karma of cursing out a bad driver and shooting an energy blast at his car causing a 5 car pile up and maybe a few lives...o.O is GREATLY different. For most people it's probably better they don't have powers

Thats just my personal take on things.

-Astral

Well i'm not sure about theory, however i do have what I would call a similar experience...maybe. Idk about the throat or anything but I have a very strong "sumthing" (pulsation is actually a pretty good word to describe it) between my shoulder blades at heart level that started happening after I started kunlun. When I let it do it's thing (spontaneous practice) my arms move in the similar fasion of "The Bird" in 5 animal frolic and I tend to arch my back in pinch my shoulder blades. Insane laughter is usually followed, sumtimes with a feeling of extreme emotional insecurity. This is all me personally. I actually feel it pulsating right now, I was about to lay down and let it "run it's course". I'm assuming it's a heart opening or sumthing similar. On rare occasions I've felt this energy, in small trickles, reach the base of my skull but it's never fully cleared my heart area...prolly cause I don't practice regularly and repress alot of emotion. Another thing I notice is that I feel more "alive", "aware" and "present" when i let the energy thrash around. Also it's more powerful when i'm fasting...WAY more powerful, lol.

-Astral

The video of the blonde girl you can see her stomach free of marks before the event - you can with the guy too, but to a lesser extent.

If you watch carefully you can actually see it appear as Jiang is projecting his chi. For her it was kinda on her right side so you can see it in the vid. Not to say it's for sure 100% real as there are many crazy things that can be done with craftiness and modern technology but it may be well worth investigating. Although it is odd how they didn't seem to react to it at all, no facial expressions, change in breathing, etc. Then again I know nothing of the "Lei Shan Dao" other than what we all know from the Mo Pai so who am I to say. That why I find it more valuable to have first-hand witnesses testify to what they experienced and saw. We should all pitch in to pay for one third person party who's never even heard of JC or Verdesi and isn't interested in chi or anything, a total skeptic (maybe a doctor), and send them to one of Verdesi's seminars and have him takes notes on his experiences and such. Thatd be fun XD

-Astral

Is Mr. Jiang greedy? I know that he charges more than Mr. Liping but i read that Mr. Jiang also donates a lot of his income for charity and for his church. But even that wasn´t true, what should he be going to spend his money on anyway? What can a man spend money on: fast cars and cute women. I don´t think he´s interested in cars and i also don´t think he has any affairs because he´s married.

Somewhere i read the complaints of a guy who attended seminars of Mr. Verdesi. He was angry because it came to his knowledge that Mr. Verdesi was spending his course fees on prostitutes. I don´t know if it really was like that and i don´t know if Mr. Verdesi did or does go to prostitutes and i don´t want to offend Mr. Verdesi here. But it certainly is a temptation if progress in taoist studies really leads to exceptional sexual abilities.

 

 

What is "a sham"? Did you meant to say that you think that Mr. Jiang faked his demonstrations?

Lol, I'm seeing a possible sub-thread about prostitutes and morality. But if you think about it, if Verdesi did indeed have such "advanced" sexual skills it would probably be a refreshing breath of air (and oxytuccin ) in comparison to their probably unsatisfying "career". And also he's paying their bills while giving them a (assumed) good time, almost could be viewed as charity, lol. Of course it could easily be argued that it'd be better to try an get them into school or working a more fulfilling career, however idk if what he is rumored to do can even be considered that "bad". Not to try and defend Verdesi, i've never met him, but just offering an alternate view.

Has anyone met him or sifu Jiang? Experienced their "ability" (NON-sexual ability, lol) ? Jus curious.

-Astral