Astral_Anima

Cow Tao, Id advise not Islanding it or seting up anywhere at sea level unless global warming miraculously goes away. The future forecast for equatorial and coastal regions is bigger, stronger and more and more frequent cyclones, tsunami's, volcanic activity, sea level rise...

 

But it does look beautiful though doesn't it. Palm tree meditation

Counterpoint

Pt. 1/13 (stick with it, it's a great lecture)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpa8o1hrrK4

I cannot encapsulate thousands of years and practitioners experience. For my self there is no need of entities. Root practices thins veils of perception, so that depending on your in born abilities may or may not experience things like "entities" which are all around and will always be, anyway. If you are going to open up, you are going to see them and in noticing them, they also see you. The systems the root practices belonged to far exceed taoism to a time when entities were as visible as you and I. We were all still in that place back then -things changed.

Isn't it kinda dangerous for people to "open up". I mean for people who are good hearted people and don't lie, cheat, steal, kill, eat flesh and such...I mean maybe for them, but for the average person...wouldn't they be attracting alot of "negative entities"? Shouldn't they focus on virtue first before opening themselves.

Also what of the "alchemy"? Is that learned after you "open up"? Is it taught/transmitted by other beings? How does it work to create immortality or a returnable body? Also can the body return to a physical state or only in an energetic state?

Sorry for so many question I just have so many questions, lol. I you want to PM if that'd be easier, i'd be down for that. I know threads can be ...less effective to explain things, lol.

-Astral

--

kunlun or Yi Gong is an internal starting point in a very specific alchemical process.

Son, if you know your Taoist history regarding the Diamond Sutra and some caves way upin the Kunlun mountains you would know the source of the root practices, there are several.

Kan has shared openly (perhaps you missed it) another form of what can rightly be called Kunlun nei gung and it's source -Not Taoist. The source of the practice is older than Mao Shan and as I wrote just now, there are several. Jenny has openly shared the source of "Yi Gong"

It is not a secret. If you truly understand, or can see inside your body when you practice then the real mystery of Kunlun would become evident. It is beyond names and description.

 

The root practice represents an internal function that cannot even been seen till everything turns up side down, know what i mean?

 

These practices are as old as humanity and further if you consider their celestial origin

Interesting. Can you elaborate any further on this? The best I know on the alchemetical process is that eventually you reverse the flow of the the energy? up the front, down the back? I'm also under the impression that it has quite a bit of "tapping into" of the "spirit world"? I believe it makes use of entities and perhaps commands those entities? Perhaps it calls upon entities to aid one in "evolution"? I know Mao Shan has it's history of "mediumship" and such practices. Am I correct? Does this have anything to do with it? Or am I just totally off?, lol

I like to fantasize about a real life commune for cultivators that allowed them to work a small part time job and live the rest of their life focusing on cultivation.

 

Not like a cult where there is some centralized leader, but more of a group of like minded cultivators just doing their own thing, and getting the cost of living down as low as is absolutely possible.

 

I've looked into the intentional communities site but haven't really found anything that sounds good at all.

 

Living as a large group the cost of living would come down exponentially, and working a part time job would be possible while maintaining a high quality of life and having plenty of time for cultivation.

 

Do you guys ever think we could make something like this work?

It's of amazing coincidence you bring this up I've been thinking of starting something like this myself. Of course I wasn't going to limit it to just cultivators (as I was thinking it could be more of a refuge for if when the economy collapses) but that does sound quite fun. I've been studying sustainability, permaculture and such and damn yo if any of us could get one going I think it'd be EPIC. I think it could definately work but only with the right people. but it definately sounds like a great idea. I've searched for something like this MANY times, but no success.

Best of Luck with it.

-Astral

Reposting this. Made a typo on the name. It's Mouni, not MounTi. Just in case anyone wanted to look him up. Sorry if this was an inconvenience to anyone.

-Astral

An Excerpt from.doc

taotongue- Ahh it's MOUNI, there's no T, i'm sorry, I made a typo, lol.

I'm making a distinguishment between observation and judgement. If you consider Christ a great master then go read proverbs as it illustrates this idea in many different ways. It IS good to make observations, but it is not good to go so far as to judge. This sort of judgement incurs karma and becomes a weight that you have to eventually let go of. So in this context we see that 'observation' is good and 'judgement' is bad. When you can walk without judgement then you avoid a lot of the karma and emotional issues that come along with it; this in no way inhibits your ability to observe and make good decisions

 

Here's a practical example, if someone I know does something bad I can react in 2 ways. I can observe their behavior and make a decision or I can make a judgement in my heart. If I simply make an observation and don't judge them then I am able to be true and to offer sincere help. If I judge them and carry that in my heart then I can no longer see them clearly and am not in a place where I can help them.

 

Hope that makes a lil more sense. This very lesson is one of the hardest I've had to learn (and am still learning); I'm quite certain that it's a condition which exists in all humans.

Haha, Can't say I fully grasp what you're saying. How would you differentiate a judgement and an observation? Or how would you define each. I think most expressions tend to get "lost in translation".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgement

I'm using definition 1, 4 and 6. For example "this glass is translucent" would be a judgment.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/observation?show=0&t=1298349822

I'm using definition 2 and 3.

So basically when I say observation, I mean something that is observed and noted in thought. When I say judgment I mean a conclusion based on an observation. How would you define these terms and how would judgment hurt one spiritually?

I can understand how using labels supplied with preconceived notions can be harmful. for example if someone fat, saying "you eat too much" would be an assumption that hasn't been verified or justified through observation; the person may be on a strict diet and simply have a glandular problem. I can see how that would be harmful. Is that what you mean?

-Astral

taotongue- haha, glad you like it. There's also a great book on concentration that I've been using as the new basis of my practice. For those that have torrents here's the link:

http://www.kickasstorrents.com/mouni-sadhu-concentration-1-ebook-pdf-t2681114.html

The guy himself sounds pretty interesting. I may look into some more of his books. Most can be found on Amazon.com.

-Astral

Kunloonie is a term that you or your friends have implemented in an effort to brand and bring segregation. Your techniques are only going to work on the weak minded though and make you look childish imo (I'm gonna guess that you're 16?). In the previous statement you further your agenda and branding, that's just my opinion though; the statement represents your agenda more so than the truth.

 

 

I've enjoyed training with Max and have learned a few things from him. As for where I place the 'source' of my happiness; thanks for your advice, but I think you're rather off target here lol.

Expand my horizons? Ah yes, I'll run right out and take your advice because I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing

Again I see you using your branding term 'kunloonie', nice one... are your friends giggling with you? I'm laughing!

 

 

 

He's actually not 'my' guru, thanks for your continuing effort to put words in my mouth though It's almost like you know me! *giggles*

 

Honestly bro, your heart is filled with echos that you need to let go of. Sure it's ok to have an opinion, but imo you are trolling because you cannot find peace in your heart. Theres a difference between making observations and making judgements. Observations allow you to see clearly, judgement binds a thing to you and makes you act like...

 

In the end no one here is perfect, including me. If we have judgement in our hearts then we leave no room for hope. Every person grows, we all change; hopefully for the better. So what sort of energy are you sending out? Energy capable of helping your brothers and sisters or energy that's intended to do the opposite? No need to answer this one, your actions clearly illustrate this result.

Isn't judgment, discernment and discrimination necessary to determine one's path? aren't these things tools for SAFELY progressing along the spiritual path? I believe two of the greatest master both Christ and Buddha were very discerning and discriminating. For example the stories of the Essene Christ wouldn't even accept anyone into his "inner circle" unless they were vegetarian and took an oath of non violence. Buddha as well set up 5 precepts that he had his followers take up. I should double and triple check but I'm 90% sure this was the case, please correct me if I am mistaken. I believe discernment and judgment is a crucial part of the human experience. For example we judge and label mushrooms and "poisonous" and "non poisonous" so people can tell the difference and stay safe from that which may potentially hurt them. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post and if I am I apologize, this is just the impression it left with me. Plus I'm kinda in that mindset right now, I just posted a chapter from a book I enjoyed alla bout discerning false "gurus", lol.

-Astral

Hey All,

This is from the book "Ways to Self Realization" Written in the 70s(?) by Mouni Sadhu. In this book there was a chapter called "False gurus" that I had to write down and share. It's a pretty good read but for those who are lazy and only want the main points I want to emphasize i'll quote some stuff. But I highly recommend reading the whole chapter and certainly the book is a good read as well. You can find it fairly cheap on amazon. Mine's already falling apart cause it was only $4 Anyway here are some good quotes:

Excited by the cleverly suggested mystery and alleged possibility of obtaining superphysical powers, and devoured by the vice of curiosity men are only too willing to pay for initiatory pamphlets and instructions. If these are only a hoax (as usually happens) or if the prospective initiate lacks the necessary will power and persistence to perform exactly what he has been told, then the evil is not so great. Even so, such disappointed individuals often begin to consider everything spoken and written about occultism and even spiritual things as pure humbug and just a means for extracting money from naive folk. The they become cynical and materialistic.

But if such sealed and secret monographs, and so on, contain some real instructions on occult and psychical practices, and is the future adept is persistent and stubborn in his efforts to become a superman, then he might get a premature glimpse of a corner of the astromental double or counterpart of this visible and sentient world.

By using different methods of breath control, mental concentration and visualization processes taken from some illegally divulged fragments of occult science, some unfortunates are able to develop certain superphysical senses and to contact the lower kind of entities of the astromental plane. As they are not yet Saints or disciples of a true spiritual Master, who would definitely forbid any adventures of this kind, what counterpart of the physical world can they hope to see? Only the worst one, related to their own ignorance and lack of inner balance.

Then we begin to hear complaints of malicious obsessions, evil influences from bad spirits, nervous disorders, and finally, physical ruin. And who is responsible for all this? Why not the real criminals, the false Yogis and occultists, who have sown these evil seeds?

The worst is that most beginners believe that they will be an exception and that they can smuggle themselves into a forbidden realm, even though warned of the dangers attending a premature mingling with other planes before the personality has been purified by a really good life.

There is a means for judging whether or not a person is worthy of our attention, who likes to be admired as a “master,” who gives particular instructions about details, but not about the main direction of our conduct, and who plays on our vice of curiosity and thirst for power over others. It is simply this: if under some influence we feel that we become better, wiser, more tolerant, and full of love for all living things, then we should consider the matter seriously, for it might be our true Path. But if we receive only some scraps of doubtful occult secrets under the label of initiations, and so on, then we can be sure that the author or alleged “master” is a rogue. There cannot be the slightest doubt if, in addition, we are asked to pay for the lessons, and if such revelations are easily accessible to anyone irrespective of his qualifications to receive certain knowledge. The true Master of Wisdom lays the greatest emphasis on the qualities of the prospective disciple, and these are the only deciding factors. He will never try to give us something unsuitable or premature.

But the occult criminals act differently, especially if they accidently come into possession of some minor secrets; for then they are ready to communicate the most unsuitable and dangerous things to anyone who is prepared to pay openly, or often in a cleverly concealed form.

Please read the whole thing as it's a very good warning for new practitioners and ever for those who may already be in this predicament. This book was written in the 70's but even today this continues. I found this chapter to be very insightful and an interesting perspective to view things from and wanted to share. Again please read the whole thing, it's very intersting Lemme know your thoughts

Peace

-Astral

EDIT:I'm reposting the attachment due to a typo. Look below.

lol, well played

Travel the world as a healer and teacher to those who wanted to explore their potential. Or perhaps I'd found a spiritual group and act as it's protector/healer and let the people reach out to others who wished to join.

-Astral

As long as you ask and pursue, it is for you in some way shape or form. If you ask a question and get an unsatisfying answer, then most likely it is for your own good, e.g. you have something to learn, something you need to reveal to yourself, in order for you to make the gains toward understanding. If somebody shows you a tough puzzle but then explains the entire thing to you and shows you how to do it before you even get a chance to take a crack at it and figure it out for yourself, then that person has actually done you a disservice in a way because a very big component is learning and coming to these understanding for yourself. If you're simply shown things and you havent had to develop the core attributes yourself, then the next puzzle you come face to face with, you may not be able to solve on your own not having developed the skill.

 

With regard to changing: If stopping, stop. If changing, then change. Measure thrice, cut once.

Sorry but no. If i'm asking and pursuing it means it sounds interesting but I have to know more before I decide. Comparing a spiritual path to a puzzle sounds poetic but simply is not practical. A puzzle is separate from the individual, it doesn't effect them directly like a spiritual practice. Spiritual practice usually brings about much change in the individual, subjects them to many things, changes them in certain ways. It is my belief that one must be educated in what changes to expect and how they will be impacted by these changes. For example if you're fat and you're trying to loose weight, you have many methods, you don't know what they do. Imagine someone telling you they'll make you slim all the have to do is some slight surgery...of course you inquire "what will be done in this surgery?" "How will this surgery affect me", they just say "it'll make you slim". So you decide not to question further and they staple your stomach. Later you loose weight but then you realize what was done and you were horrified at what they did. If you had known what that method was about you surely wouldn't have chosen it for there are certainly other ways to loose weight. Of course you want the best method for yourself so you trusted these people who said they'd help you loose weight fast, and you did but the means by which it happened you feel wasn't worth the result. Some people wouldn't mind, but you do and you wish they'd just be open and honest with you upfront instead of immaturely using "mysteriousness" and "curiosity" as marketing tools.

That is why you inquire. What if someone gave you a meditation to cure disease but they didn't tell you it would cause the death of someone in your family. It's these "monkey paw" things you have to be aware of because everything comes at a price and you have to know what price your going to pay before you buy or else you may end up dissatisfied.

-Astral

Every time I've done something non-virtuous, I've known it the second after. I've felt in the center of my being; that sense of feeling down, a nervousness that I'd just done something I'm not proud of. I think it's inherently within us to know the difference for ourselves, but not necessarily for others. Because of this, I think we should not look to others to define what is virtuous for ourselves. We ourselves know, as does the Life Force that cradles the path.

This sounds more like deeply held beliefs. For example most boys are taught that masturbation is 'shameful' or "wrong" so thus when they do it they get the same inital reaction. But that doesn't mean something isn't "virtuous". "Virtue" (as i understand it) is based upon the (objective) LAWS of the universe. You do virtuous things because they bring certain positive results. For example Thanking people for things. In a research on water Dr Emoto brought forth the idea that thought forms could effect the molecular structure of water and since we are 70% water that thought forms can be a major factor to health and well-being. Thus it would be considered "virtuous" because it brings about universal harmony and happiness, not because it "feels right". Killing has "felt right" to many people but we all know that it's not virtuous to do so.

Just my thoughts

-Astral

Well.. when I became really good at the celibacy thing... I could only do it by control. Though it seemed contradictory, I learned to control it by repression although I thought it was control.

 

I was taught, or I learned that sex was bad, and a waste of energy and came to feel disgusted toward sex and I was "choosing" to never have sex for the rest of my life. I thought it wd make me a God, a superhuman, etc. Mostly this mindset was gotten from the book Practice of Brahmacharya by Sivananda. Therefore it gave me great motivation to achieve a good 2 or so months to be free of sex in mind. Unfortunately for some reason I did fall off the wagon, and it led me to the depths I am in again today. Nowadays, I notice myself trying to control it but am unable to...because I feel that my inexperience, or my BODY feels a need to try and "seek thoughts" of sex because I am inexperienced and it's what I "need" to be normal. Or actually that... since Im "never going to be able to have sex for the rest of my life even though I'm still virile, might as well go wanton and think about sex because I'm repressed". So a lot of times I've ended up wasting quite a bit of time thinking of really intense sexual thoughts, and trying to "live it" in my mind, since I'm not able to in the real world. It's kind of a violent desire too. Not that the thoughts are violent, and or bad, just quite powerful.

 

I dont kow wtf IM trying to say with this.

 

Needless to say, if you wnt to practice celibate practices and transmute the jing, you have to actively desire it. It's not going to happen by itself.. and you might unconsciously go back to wanting to think about sex.. because hey it feels good to, you get the sensations that feel good and pleasing to.

 

And that was the reason why it was so easy for me before. Now it's been harder to even catch myself before I go off the deep end but...

 

I have this theory. Going by the reuniting.org website.. Marnia talks about in her book that it takes 2 weeks for the body and hormones to normalize after intense orgasmic sexual activity to the point of "satiety". During the period of two weeks you might feel depleted, wanting more and more sex, yet never being able to find lasting fulfillment, and will be numbed only to seek more and more violent orgasms.. basically a vicious cycle. So only once you have gone two weeks without sexual activity or at the very least orgasm, then you're body will begin to normalize.

 

I'd say it takes more than just avoiding orgasm depending on how deep a level you want to normalize. It'll be easier to avoid orgasm after 2 weeks if you just avoid orgasm for two weeks. That might not mean sexual activity, or sexual thoughts, or sexual stimulation, etc. For that you might also need to try as best as you can to avoid sexual stimulation, for two weeks and also sexual thoughts, etc.

 

Depending on how deep a level you might want to go. Because it takes two weeks for the dopamine cycle to reset.

 

So.. if you have avoided orgasm for two weeks, it's easier from then on. If you have also avoided sexual thoughts then it's easier from then on. That's high level.

 

 

I'd say it could take 3 weeks even (21 days) to really set the pattern in stone. You could try avoiding orgasm for two weeks the first two weeks, and then try avoiding sexual activity for the next two weeks, then the sexual thoughts for the following two weeks.

 

I think once you do this then perhaps for the rest of your life as long as you don't fall off the wagon for some reason and jack it up for some.. unknown reason then it'll be easier to control your sexual thoughts. Because once you go back down, you have to start form the "low level" again. You don't want to be in the depleted (jing) state.

 

btw, if you can do the above you can also try with other patterns or habits you want to change. Ever heard the 21 day rule?

 

Well if habits are based on a dopamine cycle just like sex is, then by learning to control your sexual energies you can also learn to control basic energy.

Hey man, I hear ya on the difficulty of celibacy, it takes a real effort to make such a change. Took me about 6 years to get it under control(pretty sure I got it now, lol, not positive) and I have to say the biggest step in "conquering" it was my dietary change, then the rest was a natural evolution; I've "fallen off the wagon" many times. It is powerful, the psychological aspects especially. I know experientially that "regular sex" FOR ME is a waste of time because I doesn't benefit me or the girl I'd share it with because most girls are just trying to fulfill childish fantasies and are slaves to their physical urges (which are a bi-product of unhealthy living). Poor girls as young as 12 and 13 start developing physically the the level of 16-18 and they have these hormonal changes and physical urges and they don't know what to do with them...it's sad really. But i'm getting off topic...

But yeah, any real change can be hard to make. For example I'm still in the process of refining my dietary principles. I've "fallen of the wagon" of this for about 4 years but each time I recover and i push further. It's kinda like DragonballZ (lol, wait, just hear me out). The main character starts off so strong, then someone stronger usually comes along and challenges them. Usually the challenger starts stronger and beats the main charcter's ass. But the MC gets back up and pushes harder and get more powerful, then someone new and stronger comes along and the process continues. It's like when you first start off you get to a certain stage (say you've made it 2 weeks) then it's like a whole new ball park, you may fall off. But then you get back up (of course not always immediately, I've had times where i'd be "off the wagon" for months before starting back up again) and you push to that point again, then you push further, maybe this times you make 3 weeks. And you keep pushing and eventually it becomes a part of you, like you said, the "21 day" thing, although I'd say 40. It's customary to follow 40 days fasts and meditation retreats, some even go as far as to say 100 days, but I believe the goal is simply to make whatever you're doing a habit, an unconscious behaviour.

And yes this process can be applied to many things to induce change. Truly we are the masters of our body-mind, we can program it to function in whatever way brings us the most satisfaction. Try resisting meat, white sugar, fried foods, hell COOKED foods. They are all in the category of "stimulants". They give an initial "sensation" followed by a depletion of energy. When you really isolate the behaviours that drain energy you'll notice that our whole society is based around these activities. One who attempts to attain "physical liberation" had better move in with the Essenes, or like-minded people, otherwise expect to feel isolated and alone.

Although it is my belief that for "mastery" over sexual urges one must not just "avoid" but "resist". It's very easy to indulge wholeheartedly in something and it's easy to avoid it altogether, however it's very difficult to have a taste and then resist. For example When I'm going good on the sex thing, I may watch some porn and try to keep my mind unattached, keep my body from responding. When I get to a point of dietary mastery I may introduce chocolate or high sugar and then not indulge any futher in any of the like. My personal approach to change is to jump in feet first and try to hold out as long as I can, whereas most people prefer to only put their foot in, and slowly adjust. Therefore for me if I "fall" then I lose ALL my self-control and over indulge. So for me the ultimate test is to reach a state of "achievement" then allow a single taste of indulgence and prove that I can resist further after getting a taste. That shit is HARD, VERY "high level", but truly a sign of mastery

-Astral

It amazes me how humans anthropomorphise the universal forces. The life force is amoral.

Very good Padawan, you'll make a fine Jedi

Hey all,

 

I'm considering whether to change my qigong practice from the current exercises over to Sifu Jenny Lamb's yigong system. I've had a couple of false starts, switching then switching back. It's always very disruptive changing your system of regulating your chi. Bodri says conciousness rides on the chi [at low levels], so when i change up my chi exerciese i feel totally homeless, not myself at all

 

So i figured i would ask the taobum elders, as to the best and safest ways to go about changing ones chi regulating exercises. Any advice?

I would ask yourself first if you have a goal in your practice. Certain practice are meant for certain things. For example Spring Forest Qigong is something developed for healing; certain arts are developed for certain reasons. I would actually ask Sifu Jenny why someone would practice Yi-Gong or what it's original purpose was or is, that may give you a better idea of whether or not the practice is meant for you or not.

I know what it's like to wonder what practice to follow, it can be maddening because so little is known and so few teachers are willing to say what it's really about or what's really involved. Again I think it's based on your intent OR if you really trust a particular teacher that would help alot.

From Sifu Jenny's site (under Q&A):

It is your goal that shapes your path, not the lineage. To know your goal and persistently make an effort to achieve your goal is crucial. The essence of Yigong is to develop awareness. Awareness leads to awakening. It is contained in every part of the Yigong system, whether physical or spiritual.

-Astral

PS anyone know about the "spiritual side" of Yi-Gong? Does she teach it at seminars?

Do we need this body to achieve anything? Buddhist are always trying to liberate themselves from this body because "life is suffering". Why can't they just kill themselves then and everything will be "alright"?

 

Whats the purpose of having this body? Is it used as a vehicle? Are the Buddhists trying to change the world by staying in the body,achieving enlightenment so they can come back to the world in their vehicle to transmit the message?

 

Life is only suffering huh. TO the buddhists we have no real purpose, the true state of the universe is nothing but Void.

 

Im not buddhist but I can't get past seeing the world without purpose. Even if we Do create our own purpose then what of the people who are stuck living life a certain way, can't create their own purpose?

 

Animals for example. What purpose do they have? All they do all day is scavenge for food... Well some may say it can be enjoyable. But their lives are really primitive. Do they ever stop to think "WTF?"

 

WTF? Why do we have to be here doing not what we want to do but what we "have" to do? This is OUR Universe why aren't we Creating our world the way we want to be? Is this our true home? Is this some purgatory?

 

There's no storyline, there's no plot. Live and die. Over and over.

 

Maybe I shd get more into Buddhism.

Nope. Life is "Dukka". Don't let these ignorant translators cloud the words of the buddha. Here, check this out:

http://buddhism.about.com/od/thefournobletruths/a/dukkhaexplain.htm

Honestly it's gonna be tough to get past the language barrier, it's gonna take alot of resources. You may want to find a reputable scholar and find works by him/her on these things to mae sure you're getting the most accurate translations.

As for animals having purpose, lol, forget purpose, they don't even have awareness or a sense of purpose. They act on the "instinct" level of consciousness. Most humans now act between instinct and intellect, our next step is intuition XD

And we may very well have a purpose. I've always said that we create our own destiny, that we create our own purpose because I (like Neo) don't like the idea of not being in control of my own life. I think we have to reach that stage of depression that there is no purpose before we can really have a purpose. In the words of Mr. Durden, "It's not until we've lost everything that we're free to do anything"

The body can live alot longer than what most people believe. The body can be made immortal, it can be used to make an immortal body, or it can be a temporary vessel for the spirit to express itself on this plane. It's YOUR CHOICE, what the body is here for. Once you know what it can do and you decide what you want it to do, THATS it's purpose. And purpose isn't permanent, it's "dukka", so it can change but once you've made up your mind how you want to use something then that is it's purpose.

PURPOSE= POTENTIAL + CHOICE

-Astral

OP you should check out a movie called Equalibrium its pretty interesting. As for repressing emotions i think its best to not be swayed either way by them..simply see them as they are but dont get attatched to them. EX: you go on a roller coaster and you love the thrill, but instead of enjoying that moment you seek the next one..its an endless cycle that way..dont mistake pleasure for happiness/contentment.

That is one of my FAVORITE movies yo. So is "my dinner with andre", that has an interesting perspective that kinda indirectly relates to this subject.

Also to all, thank you for the thought provoking responses. All more are welcome. Very interesting so far

-Astral

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Codependency

Denial patterns:

 

* I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.

* I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.

* I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.

 

 

Low self-esteem patterns:

 

* I have difficulty making decisions.

* I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never "good enough."

* I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.

* I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.

* I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own.

* I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

 

 

 

Compliance patterns:

 

* I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.

* I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.

* I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.

* I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.

* I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.

* I accept sex when I want love.

 

Control patterns:

 

* I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.

* I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.

* I become resentful when others will not let me help them.

* I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.

* I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about.

* I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.

* I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.

Haha, everything accept "Compliance" is SO me, lol. Now I have a label. YAY! . I just found it interesting that they have a title for this kinda stuff. Idk, just thought I'd share. Anyone else relate to any of these? I was under the belief that some of these are useful, what are you guys' thoughts?

-Astral

EDIT: Just noticed, "Compliance" sounds like alot of women I know . Poor lasses

EDIT 2: The sub was supposed to say "and NOT of the third kind".

So when it comes to emotions and such there's two basic theories (that I'm aware of) that seem to be in contradiction of each-other.

The first is that if we don't allow ourselves to experience/express emotions then we end up repressing them where they stay "unprocessed" and usually some kind of "regurgitation" is needed to re-experience and express them in order to be "free" of them. This seems to be the consensus of most "shamanic" cultures and certain "spiritual" sects that are now appearing.

The second theory is that we simply lack discipline and that we should work at learning to controlling our minds as the mind is a tool that when out of control can cause us to suffer with excessive thoughts and emotions. From my observations it seems most yogic texts and even Buddhist texts support this and call for strict observation and eventually control over one's thoughts/emotions.

Perhaps these aren't in conflict, I'm not sure. From my current perspective they seem to be opposites and I'm not quite sure which one would be true. What are your thoughts on this matter. Do you think controlling our thoughts/emotions leads to enlightenment/mastery of mind or does it lead to repression?

-Astral

Taomeow clarified in short the alchemy and its potential end result.

oh...really? Link?