Astral_Anima

Loneliness. I mean I don't follow just one system and sum of my practices are rather extreme, but through my cultivation it's often hard to relate to everyday people. It seems that everyone is...well i'm upset at the condition of most people and I know I shouldn't partake of thier habbits, but I find it hard to otherwise relate to others which leaves me feeling ungrounded, isolated and lonely. I mean honestly I just need to find sum like-minded people to hang out with but for right now thats by biggest issue.

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Hey All!, Just wondering if anybody knows of any alchemtical systems that utilize "dual cultivation". All of the more popular ones seem to require celibacy. Wondering if anyone known of other methods. As I understand it Tantra and Tibetan stuff seems to make use of it and I know that Mantak Chia's Stuff and that other guy, but none of these seem to be any complete methods to spiritual realization, they just seem to be techniques to increase energy and sexual vigor. Any complete spiritual schools that make use of dual cultivation? Thx much -Astral

haha, thank you sean. I'd agree with Chunyi that love is the most important thing that most people tend to overlook. I think hendrix said it best, "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace". Right now the two are still battling inside me Also you could term it a "wood" path depending on it's dynamics. I don't think it's alchemy but since water flows from the crown down and fire goes from the tail bone up and SFQ starts at the heart then perhaps....something something (insert sense making here), thus in conclusion that is why I feel the governments of the world should each give me 1 million dollars cash -Astral

I think everyone here is overcomplicating this, lol. To the OP, here's how I believe the world works, let me know if you agree. In order for change to occur there must be a catalyst. In order to get something new you must do something different. Every action has a reaction. Sitting in silence will bring about a change, it will yield results. They may not be what you're looking for however. Or it may not be enough to simply sit in silence, you may have to face a few things during that silence. If you're not experiencing a "shift" then you're not relaxing and perhaps thats what you should focus on. If you do experience that subtle shift then grats you're sitting in silence and you're relaxed, what else do you want? you've experienced the results, the fruits of sitting in silence. If you want something else then do something else. Why do you meditate? you want to experience something neat? Why not try reverse dant tien breathing in a half or full lotus while being celibate. After awhile you'll feel a heat in your lower dan tien which will rise up your spine and may result in a trippy vision after awhile. Or you could try Kunlun, where you have this energy inside that moves you in wierd ways, where you'll experience blissful feelings, kind of like small orgasms in your spine. Silence has a certain result and takes a certain amount of time, if you don't like the result or don't like how long it takes then don't do it. Everything is like that, every action or system has a reaction or result. If you lift wieghts you built muscle, if you drink you pee, if you do this you experience that. Silence is a subtle thing. What i've found it do to me is force me to face and accept myself. It also allowed me some insight into who I was and what I was experiencing or repressing. It gave me time to think and philosophize life. Thats what it does. Also if done over an extended period of time it can lead to mental purification. However if you live in a modern society then don't expect many results. through my own silent practice I've realized i'll never get anywhere in the path of emptiness unless I get away from all of the stimulation of modern society. When you're silence you become more sensitive. Not eating (fasting) for awhile will also heighten your sensitivity and you will smell and hear and see and feel everything differently and you'll be much more sensitive to your environment. Personally i've found video screens (like computers), cars, heating devices, digital audio, cell phones, people voices, all effect my negatively, it all produces a stress response inside me, although very subtle (but when you re-sensitize yourself you can feel it). Emptiness, I believe, can only be attained by temporary recluse from the senses (in the path of "letting go" and silence). It sounds like you would be better suited doing some kind of energetic work or physical cleansing. I would again recommend you look into some schools of Yoga, especially Hatha Yoga, which is very goal oriented and gives you tangible results at a decent pace. It also prepares your body for the crazy energetic stuff that comes later Just my opinion, Best of luck -Astral

You may want to try single point focus meditation or sensory deprivation meditation if you're less patient for results. How I see it is that sitting with objectiveless awareness is a mental cleansing process. It's a way of reducing and eventually letting go all of the over anxious over stimulating thoughts that are involved with modern living. You say you get bored...what is boredom? Why do we get uncomfortable when we are not doing? Personally I have found boredom and loneliness my two greatest tools in mental detoxification because through observation I have identified them as the result of returning to our "natural" state. Just like when we detoxify our body we feel physical discomfort, when we detoxify the mind we receive mental discomfort. Boredom and loneliness both fade as does fear, depression and probably most other mental "impurities". The whole concept of "doing" is usually out of fear. We work because we fear not having enough money, we hang around people because we fear loneliness, we eat alot because we fear hunger, etc (of course this is not everyone all of the time, but i have observed it happen in myself and by testimony of others). So there's a "rush" there's impatience because we feel this dire need to "do"(from fear), whereas when the mind relaxes and cleanses it would seem more things change. I can't say what the end result is as i'm not there, nor know anyone there, but I would assume people would only "do" out of love (if fear was eradicated). If one eats it would be a tribute to their body, if one plants a tree it would be in love of nature or life, etc. It would also seem if one were to detoxify their body AND mind together then some VERY interesting "results" may occur. However such results are more of a "letting go". The seeming paradox with these things is that the more you want it the farther you get from it; i think it's because the very idea of "wanting" from a mindstate of fear from the position of "lack" is a mental toxin, and the only way to get the "result" is to let go of all things that don't serve you, including that fearful want. I don't think desire itself is bad, desire seems to be what runs all action, if we were desireless we'd all be dead , but desire out of fear seems to be the real issue at hand, can't say for certain. But anyway, yeah, if you have trouble letting go of things and just "being", if you don't want to suffer through boredom or mental detoxification and want to try a diff way, then perhaps you should try single point focus or sensory deprivation. Yoga may be more of your thing if you like results But good luck with whatever you choose. -Astral

Hey All A question just came to mind thats left me puzzled, but not without theories. There's been a recent movement of spiritual practices that have been coming out that have been saying "The time is right" or something that alludes to there being some significance to the time we're in, in relation to spirittual practice. Like practices were kept out of the open but because of the "times" we're in it's being made public. Does anyone here think there's anything significant about today's time in relation to spiritual practice? Is this just a marketing gimic to reel in crowds? I'd like to hear people's thoughts about this matter. Thank You all. -Astral

It's not about being "wowed" I already accept the possibility of many things. If i were to meet someone who could actually do something my reaction wouldn't be "wow" it'd be "FINALLY", lol. The problem is if I decide to settle for the method of some smooth talker then I get tricked into believing in a false method. For example, lets say I follow kunlun because of stories of this and that and because Max talks a fair game; but then lets say it turns out that Max is a fraud who studied texts of ancient cultivation and just knew how to lie really well (to get money) because he was well informed; Then I would have wasted an unknown number of months/years (and dollars) doing something that got me nowhere. And i'm sorry but i don't believe that logic is this evil ego thats stopping me from achieving my goals. I've tried following my heart before and it almost ended me up in jail; I was lucky enough to wake up to the REAL WORLD and learn to use my head instead. I am currently trying to work on my discipline, reasoning/deductive abilities, silent meditation and awareness of how things effect me. Buddhism is something i'm integrating but i'm looking for an energetic practice to compliment it. Problem with buddhism is that it seems to ignore the body. I didn't study with Chang directly, only with one of his students. I didn't practice long either, maybe a month? I decided it was better not to commit to a method that may end up being a dead end, which in reality is a pretty lame excuse, lol, but I had kunlun to back it up. Unfortunately I keep fighting in my head between the two. Obviously just picking one would be easier, but I still haven't decided which one's for me.......actually...I think i just have......wow, how interesting, haha, having a revelation mid-sentance. but anyway I think this is alittle off topic of the post don't you? If you want to discuss this further i suggest you do it via PM or start a new post with a title relevant to the topic being discussed. It's better to keep TTB organized so people looking for information via this site can more easily access it -Astral

Well I speak from experience. Personally I doubt alot of practices and tend to switch between them which doesn't get me anywhere. I started with mo pai, then decided I'd probably never get anywhere because the teacher was in recluse so I went to kunlun, then I hear things like Max cant affect anyone except his students with his "powers", making it seems like subjectivity molding the minds of the weak and hopeful, and then we have this GDB controversy. Makes me want to rob a bank to go visit Verdesi and see if he can introduce me to a teacher that isn't afraid to prove himself to me so that i can be confident that his method works. I've been to Reiki practitioners, and had people do energy healings and personally i've never felt anything from it, it just seems like utter BS. At the same time though I don't want to just give up and miss out on finding the method(s) that work(s). When you feel confident about your method you'll stick with it. Simple. You wont be disturbed by thoughts liek 'is this the right method'? 'is this even doing anything'? Usually it's better to quiet the mind instead of leaving room for these thoughts to arise wouldn't you agree? -Astral

Balance- Were the times different then perhaps you would be right. In these times however there are many "wolves in sheeps clothing", false gurus just trying to get people's money. As most of us seem to be serious about our cultivation methods we don't want to waste time (and money) practicing "false" methods (i speak for myself, not everyone). Obviously there must be ways to verify whether kunlun is a valuable method and whether it's attainments are true. First of all I will say I've experienced interesting things through kunlun, and that was without daily practice, so it may indeed be something of worth, however when you choose a method it's best not to have any doubt or confusion about the method or your teacher. In this case since one has to practice 6months just to see Max and the facilitators don't show any kind of ability at all then it can be viewed as having to wait 6 months to see if this practice is even worth doing. Also Kan has only bee doing kunlun less than 10 years so if one year (requirement for facilitator)doesn't reap any rewards then it's extremely discouraging. Counterpoint: What Max teaches isn't nearly the extent of his abilities. He teaches yi-gong and RP to bring people to enlightenment stage so that if he does teach them thunder magic or other special abilities then they are less likely to misuse/abuse it. If yi-gong means mind work, perhaps kunlun is more about cultivating/refining charactor and the abilities come later. If this is the case then i would say it's probably one of the better methods as it makes more sense to balance mind and heart before introducing power, otherwise you make monster

Upon further examination of the photos I think It would be a good idea to post some photoshoped pics using the said effect and compare the photos. I don't have any photoshop exp so I would like to see what is possible to help determine the likelihood of Kan's pics being real/fake. -Astral

so wait, has anyone here actually SEEN, first hand, Max or Kan do this transparency act? since none of us can bring forth any empirical evidence to prove either yes or no, I believe testimony would be the best method of verification (after a cross examination and counterpoint of course). Since Ralis apparently has the word of a professional that these photos look "tampered with", it seems there's a likelyhood that the photos may be fakes. However we ARE talking about an ability that hasn't yet been properly defined. Is this invisibility? Max says it's when we shift from matter to energy. If we are to believe that, however, one must question why Kan's CLOTHES are transparent as well, as they are not part of the body. Another interesting possibility is that these photos were purposely photoshopped to prove a point or to try to convey what Kunlun masters think is hard to convey. If this were the case, however, we should have an open testimony by Max, Kan, Mantra68, or some other Kunluner to say that this is the case. There's no point in lying if their intent was to purposely fake the photos to try to convey a concept. Another possibility is that the camera has a hard time tracking what is going and causes a similar effect as this photoshop technique (although thats rather convenient and quite suspect). Since (according to Max) the body would be turning from dense matter to energy or light, it must be considered what such a process would look like to the human eye. I personally have no idea but perhaps someone can fill in this information. Ultimately I don't believe there is enough knowledge on this subject to make any conclusions just yet. A question that I have is does the GDB grant physical immortality? In time maybe we'll know more. Until then it may be best to ask some accomplished kunlun practitioners about such matters. -Astral

Oh? and do you know this by experience or just hearsay? Could be, i'm not sure. As for the groups, I know Kunlun is one, John Chang of the Mo Pai said that "times are changing" and decided to share some of what he knew (although still reluctant), HRM (hira ratan manek) started sharing the art of sungazing maybe a decade ago saying he was told by a "master" to share such knowledge due to the "times to come", The essenes have started popping up again...It just seems like spirituality is gaining a foothold in society. Not really a great foodhold but it seems there's more people spiritually inclined. Unfortunately the business-minded seem to have caught on and are trying to take advantage of people (as they always do) so it's hard to tell who's legit and who's just some bullshitter out for your cash. While 2012 may be a shift in consciousness i'm not so sure, I've heard science come up with some interesting theories like pole reversal, solar flares, hightened radiation, etc. and i've heard conspiracy theories involving a one world society that will try to use computers and technology to control mankind; there's alot of things out there. Personally however nothing changes my goals, so really i'm not so concerned, i'm just going to keep working at my neigong training and a few other things. I was just curious what other people have heard/think. And thank you all so far for sharing your thoughts/ideas, keep it coming XD

A topic of interest to me. Before one gets into such a "realm" I would suggest considering a few videos... This series has some great explanations http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeacZwl2pbg&feature=related This is the BEST video EVER, lol Again the fact that Max can't use his abilities on the "non-practitioner" is sketch at best. The idea of being "open" and "playful" is great for mental health and emotional balance but also leave one open to illusion. I've never met Max and wont be able to until next year, and I don't know his abilities, but what he's shown so far isn't that impressive. However if he can turn "transparent" live, real time, then that would be alittle more believable. If he truly has reached the state people claim he's reached then he probably has MANY more powers than what he's shown (thunder magic?). Since he has a healing practice in Hawaii, I would inquire about that and perhaps see who he has healed and what the success rate was and what the people experienced. Or perhaps get a healing from him in person. So far the only one's that I know of that have been able to claim concrete, demonstratable and re-demonstratable abilities with objective results are John Chang, and some of Verdesi's "masters". However I myself have never experienced such things and I know how some of their things can be faked, however it seems more likely for them to be legit than some of the others. In counterpoint Kunlun is more of a "spiritual" system that seems to utilize some different form of energy. It seems to affect the spiritual/emotional/mental more than the physical. It's likely that it wouldn't work on those who are not receptive to it, making it a bad choice for those who wish to have a demonstratable effect on others (it seems). The argument that a persons energy channels are too closed and using energy on them would hurt them is an unstable argument from a "master"; it shows they don't have control of how much energy they use. For example JC was able to give a general percentage of how much power he was exerting, and when healing he says he only uses a small fraction of his energy so not to harm people. Personally I think kunlun is great for mental/emotional health, when I do it I feel "connected" and smile and laugh all the time, feels very "light". I also feel the "magnetic feeling, esp from the Red Pheonix practice, my brain feels like a magnet after doing that. However without enough demonstratable evidence or proper explanation certain things are harder to believe. It would be great if there were a practitioner or two here who has either met Max and experienced these things or has achieved some level with abilities, who could share a few things with us. Apparently Kan has only done Kunlun for 7 or so years before he attained Gold Dragon Body. The other question is: Does GDB mean immortality? No-one has answered that. Usually the goal of daoist alchemy is eventual immortality, so I would assume this does that, but nobody has answered that... Those are my current thoughts -Astral

Haha, indeed, well timed there Raine

Jus FYI Drew is taking a break from TTBs because he said he was done with the "perv attacks". His last log, i believe was August 24th. I don't know when he'll be back. You may want to try to msg him some other way. I don't want to speak for him, but i've read his posts before and based on his posts I can offer you what I believe he'd say... As for the difference between males and females, men tend to be manipulated to focus on sex while women tend to focus on love, thus men's consciousness is stuck at the sex chakra where women tend to be at the heart level. Since men focus on sex so much they try to accumulate jing so they can fulfill their "desire" and ejaculate. He labeled these people as "pervs" or "number 1's". He states they try to pull your energy down to your lower energy centers, deconvert your chi to jing and try to absorb the jing from you. As for women drew has stated that they crave chi and use it for internal mutual climaxes with it's provider. He states that when a males projects his chi (whether vis his 3rd eye or hands) the females takes in the chi and gives the male her jing for the male to transmute to more chi, and of course when this happens they both experience multiple mutual climaxes. As for other possible theories based on drew's posts. He says jing is "electro-chemical" and I believe it could be hormonal. Increasing your Jing may simply increase the body's natural pheromones which is like catnip for women. A healthy virile male with high vitality (pretty rare in today's society) will naturally attract girls from a biologically point of view, or even subconsciously from the standpoint of the unconscious mind and evolution. Personally though, as fun as it would be to share multiple internal climaxs with women I would suggest that it would be OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND (dbz tourettes) times better to build your shen and return to "emptiness". Go over to a post called "3rd eye" or something. There drew posts extensively about his theories on these things. If you value his opinions you will find it a bountiful warehouse of information, and it will likely answer your question. -Astral

can white blood cells understand the concept of compassion? Does it have the level of consciousness a Buddha would? Can we even compare such things in these ways? -Astral

I would suggest further that it may reflect the subliminal teachings of FG.

Hello all, I'm curious. I know that the achemetical process is turning jing into chi then chi into shen. Jing being turned into chi seem to be done by sitting full lotus and celibacy redirecting the sexual energy (please correct me if I misunderstand that). However what are the methods for turning chi into shen? Anyone have any insights? All is appreciated. -Astral

Hello all, I'm wondering now about the "Inner Light". It's supposed to be this light one sees when they close their eyes. I'm reading about it in "Daoist Yoga" as it seems to be the starting point for cultivation. Does anyone have experience with this inner light? In the book it's called the "light of vitality". Here's the excerpt below... I mean i've sat staring at my nose and i don't notice anything really. Does anyone have experience with this? Insights? tips? Thx kindly -Astral

Haha funny you should mention diet, thats what i've been focuing on of late. I'm currently doing a raw grassfed milk fast of 4-5 quarts a day, then i'm going over to blue/green algae, raw kimchi(using spectrobiotics) and sprouts (using crystal salt for higher mineral density). But yeah I can see how that would make a diff. I was also considering taking raw egg yolks (12 a day) for the choline, lecithin and such, but will probably forgo that. I wonder about htp-5 i've heard in mentioned in an ebook i got (along with choline and other things). How can you tell if your serotonin is low or not? I honestly have no idea if i need it or not, lol. -Astral

I've had a similar problem before, I used to consider myself an "empath" because of it. I'm afraid i'm not aware of your personal condition however I can share what worked for me and a plausible idea. What worked for me without knowing it was a heart opening that was followed by the involuntary practice of smiling. After the heart opening I felt great joy which made it easier to smile, and the more I smile now, the more "in touch" I am with the source of this joy. Try not to see yourself necessarily as "one with everyone" try to see yourself as divine, as "god", try to make a connection with the source that sustains all things. Once you are filled with love/source/god then that will be all that is there (in terms of influence). To be honest I believe THATS what links us all. Oneness is on a subtle level that is beyond mind and emotion (i believe), practice emptiness and mindlessness and that oneness will reveal itself. Abandon pursuit and everything will be yours Another approach is one quoted in "Daoist Yoga-Alchemy and Immortality". -Astral Edit: It's important to note, when I say abandon pursuit, i simply mean don't PURSUE it, don't think about it all the time, don't obsess. Put your intention out there, but then let it go and allow the universe/god/source to do it's part.

Hey paul, just to clarify, no I was being quite serious. The practice I use is about letting go and "not doing" rather than "doing", it helps immensely with my emptiness meditation that usually follows...unless you were alluding to something more...? Rainbow- Thx for the advice, I will take it to heart Scotty- Thx for the info. This sounds similar to what I hear about certain tibetan systems. Don't they focus on "blissful heat"(filling dan tien) then eventually merge the lower dan tien with the heart? -Astral