Athanor

You just haven't yet discovered the right qigong system for you. Keep searching and you will. When you do I assure you that it will not be boring.

I thought this too, that's why I asked which qigong systems are worth to practice - I mean the ancient ones, not the new age ones. However, I think sooner or later taijiquan will also result in a higher ability to perceive qi-flow, yet, without the extraordinary healing benefit.

Athanor,

Qigong practice is experiential. YOU have to feel these things for yourself. We could speak and debate these things for years (and have ) but until a person discovers qigong for themselves the real meaning is missing.

 

To address what you asked here and Vortex replied to I will give an example. The main qigong form I practice is called Stillness-Movement and is an OLD method that is very powerful. Only after practicing this method for over 15 years was I able to, over another 15 year period, develop a highly energetic qigong movement system called Gift of the Tao. There is no possible way I would have been able to develop the Gift of the Tao without having studied and practiced the old knowledge system.

So you spent 30 years with it. OK, I'm not even alive for 30 years yet but almost...

It's just that I don't really find qigong exciting. I think it's boring. I started to practice one style (I don't know how to write its name in English) but I didn't enjoy it. I enjoy taijiquan, but not qigong. But taiji is different, and it has a different effect, and I'd really like to receive the effects of qigong. But it's so boring that it makes me nervous instead of tranquil

I don't have the least doubt that I do something wrong, this is the reason why I'd like to know these things - to figure out how to do it right.

This is a key term for Qigong practice. Post heaven intelligence is using the conscious mind that has been gathering all the information and storing it since your were born. It is what creates judgement and bias. In order to do Qigong correctly you need to have a still mind without the attachment of this type of thinking. You need to utilize the stillness to tap into your original spirit. THE REAL YOU without judgements. This allows you to trust yourself and begin to sense the real qi inside you.

To me this sounds like if I would need to become enlightened to practice qigong properly...

Excellent question!

I think the best way to answer such a question is to practice some different forms and see what, if anything, you get out of it.

Find what is right for you - physically, emotionally, psychologically.

 

When we try to answer questions like this verbally, I tend to find the answers gratuitous or rote.

Physical movements combined with focus and breathing are valuable for a lot of reasons - physical, psychological, emotional, spiritual. Different patterns will be beneficial to different individuals and this may change over time depending on where you are at any given period in your life. I think that almost any movement of the human body combined with focused attention and breathing can be instructive or valuable when practiced appropriately. All muscle groups and joints benefit from stretching and strengthening. Often this will mimic other animals, sometimes not.

 

Your idea of "aligning ourselves" "with OUR OWN nature" is absolutely reasonable and as, or more, valid than any other.

This does not apply to us only as a species (although that's part of it) but also as individuals.

The only way to do this, I believe, is to learn a variety of methods (or no methods) and either find what works best for you as an individual or develop your own.

 

Be wary of putting too much faith in all Qigong systems, however. The vast majority of Qigong systems practiced worldwide were developed by opportunists during the Qigong "boom" in China in the past few decades or by non-Chinese riding on their coat tails. Most of what is practiced was not developed by ancient shamans who were deeply in touch with nature but by modern Chinese looking for something to believe in after the decimation of the Cultural Revolution. This Qigong craze started in the 70's in post-Mao China and really gained momentum in the 90's as China progressively opened to the west.

 

The publishers of multiple Qigong books and videos are not sharing priceless, ancient secrets for the most part but anything that looks like it could sell. A very famous publisher of Qigong videos approached a friend of mine, wanting to put the Qigong sets we practice on tape and package and sell it to the public with a fancy name and history. Buyer beware...

Can you tell me some qigong systems that were developed by earlier masters? Btw, is the date of creation a guarantee to quality? Can't a newly formed qigong system be better, simply because of the experiences the world has on qigong today?

before i continue, PLEASE try to keep in mind that there is really no way for me to answer the whole of your question here. it's a HUGE question and you could easily read a dozen books without having it answered completely. but that being said:

 

you seem to have latched on to my very last paragraph, as if to ignore the three paragraphs prior, which i believe answer what you're re-iterating here. maybe my answers come across too abstract for your taste?

 

not sure i can satisfy your questions empirically. i know the esoteric theories and i know my lived experiences. many teachers would tell you to practice until you understand it for yourself. as i suggested right at the start, i believe you're trying to think through something that isn't necessarily intellectual. so i draw on analogies, like music. moving without expectation would be like Miles Davis just letting it flow through him in a jazz session. a novice couldn't achieve what he did, unless they were uncommonly gifted.

 

i would liken many of the old masters to musical geniuses. they see phenomenon and quickly understand what imitating abstractly representing the phenomenon will do for the body. they can feel it. they can see it. they're not novices with no conscious connection to the life force. they are master artists that can fashion these expressions into teachable forms.

 

so yeah, beauty of the dance is a big part of it. it's not the whole of it, and there are a TON of 'no frills' forms out there. you just won't catch me practicing a whole lot of them.

 

but what i've been getting at here is that it's a matter of being able to really open up and see and feel things deeply. no one has to teach a child that running around in the grass is healthy activity, or that warm days can nourish the body.

 

and as for "making ourselves available to the life energy of the moment is very nice, but find me just 5 people on Earth who understand this the same way," i could find you 50 right here in Sacramento. it's not as novel a concept as you think. it's just new to you.

 

i'm glad that i don't have to re-invent the wheel all the time, but sometimes it's good practice. i can feel the meridian lines in people's bodies, but i'm not yet skilled enough to actually see them. masters who came before me could see them, and the mapped the energetic body. i've studied their work and verified their findings for myself. and with that knowledge alone i could create qigong forms that mimic whatever i want. but i never do this. i do the reverse. after having studied hundreds of qigong forms as well as formless moving meditation, i can allow my body to express as it will and allow that to teach me.

 

Mikaelz recently posted about his experience with Sifu Jenny Lamb, where he learned a set of exercises that she learned from her own body's spontaneous postures. not everyone can do that, but that kind of discovery and teaching is far from unheard of, and many of the older forms, having shamanic roots, were developed in similar ways.

Sorry that you needed to repeat yourself, however, I think I understand you more clearly after this. I still don't know the answer to my question, but "intuitively" I think I understand it better. The problem in my case might indeed be that it's new to me, and that I don't have practice experience. I mean I practiced for a while, but I wouldn't call that real experience - it would need more time I guess.

So thank you

"One who goes with the tao..."?

My point was that if it means anything, it is impossible to tell it with words.

there is no one correct protocol, no matter how much energy we spend trying to map out all the benefits of certain practices. the highest expression, in my opinion, is to simply make ourselves available to the life energy of the moment, as it arises, without expectation of form or outcome. but this is a very difficult thing to do. so forms have proven themselves to be a good compromise in terms of health.

So then, what makes it possible to determine whether a movement is to our own good or against it? If there is no one correct protocol, then what is the guideline or directive or particular feeling or whatever that can tell how to move, which move is natural and which is not? I mean "making ourselves available to the life energy of the moment" is very nice, but find me just 5 people on Earth who understand this the same way.

Moving without expectation would mean not to expect the movement to increase my health, wouldn't it? Then how to practice qigong?

It's like if the whole thing would be simply the joy of moving. As if it wouldn't matter at all how to move, which way, and how far, or how fast, but the only thing that matters would be to enjoy it. So you'd move in a way as you enjoy it. But then, isn't it kind of unethical to teach qigong for a high fee instead of saying "move as you like"?

You need to go beyond post heaven intelligence and realize the essence of the teaching and movements.

This sounds very nice, but I have absolutely no idea what it means. Avoiding such sentences in general when talking about qigong and related issues, or strictly defining the terms used in it, like 'post heaven intelligence', so that they would mean roughly the same to everyone, would make it much easier to understand these practices.

I was watching the Wild Goose Qigong practice and some questions occurred to me.

It's ok that people a long time ago watched animals and they thought that those movements might be vital and healthy. But beside this, why did they think (and why do we still think today) that this actually benefits us in a special way?

I mean just because the goose needs to shake its wings to get rid of water on its feathers, it doesn't mean that if we imitate that movement then it's going to be good for us. We don't have feathers, we don't have wings, why should we do a like movement with our hands? How does this whole thing connect to qi energy?

If qigong's fundamental principle is to align ourselves with nature, then shouldn't we align ourselves with OUR OWN nature instead of animals' nature?

Edited:

Thank you for all the valuable and helpful comments and information. I appreciate everyone's help.

My suggestion: learn taiji (tai chi) and practice it a lot. First just a little, then a few minutes more every day. Find a master to learn from. Do this for daily routine, it's fun. You can do chigong too, but I prefer taiji because it has more movements and it puts all your parts in motion for a longer time; it enhances energy, but it also gently moves muscles and joints directly. Good taiji masters use qigong exercises as a work off, you'll probably learn such too.

It's definitely good to gain contact with someone who is actually teaching such. Don't rely on students' opinion, ask the master.

And for urgent change: I'd suggest you to try craniosacral therapy, but only after you read about it (search google), and only if you think it can help you. Don't do it just because some guy on the forum told you... This therapy is very gentle, and (according to articles) it cures mental, physical and psychical illnesses too; it works like an ignition to your immune system and the body's self-healing mechanism. I'm going to try it too.

Alright so I know minimum about Taoism. I know almost nothing about meditation and its purpose. I am completly confused on the whole diet thing. Basically, can you guys help me learn all this stuff? I feel so far behind. I do not mean for you all to tell me everything there is to know because I know how its beneficial to figure things out on your own or reading them but this would help. So here are some questions that I can not find answers to.

 

What sets apart the three different types of Taoism?

What is cultivation?

What is the stuff about sexual energy and holding back ejaculation?

Is there a set list of foods you can not eat as a Taoist?

Are there any books I should read that will explain general ideas and finer detail on certain subjects? Like meditation, energy, Taoism's history, other beliefs, food, and anything else a Taoist should know?

 

I would love to know as much about this as possible so please post as much on any or all of these subject as you can. Even a small detail, list of vocab, or anything would help me.

Taoism is not about knowing. It's about being. Not about being a taoist; just about being. In a way as it corresponds to nature. Read about wu wei to understand this concept.

Meditation basics is to focus on the present, and let your memories about the past and expectations about the future flow away. Keep your mind empty, filled with the present. And don't try to grasp this logically

It's a wonderful thing once you let go of the desire for knowledge. Hard too.

The main problem during taoist practice is that it contradicts with the way of civilized life. The reason for this is that civilized life contradicts to nature's flow. You have to find the balance in your own life, how far do you want to dig into taoism, and how much do you want to cling on your civilized life. This is of utter importance, for if you have doubt about your spiritual path fitting into your life then you won't make progress. The best is when you don't distinguish a spiritual path and a life anymore.

I think it's best to grasp the whole concept in general before getting involved into details. You can easily lose contact with the purpose of this whole thing if you dig into Mantak Chia's dozens of books and videos about taoist health and such... IMO it's completely unnecessary at the beginning.

Good luck.

Good luck finding someone who can tell you what it truly means to be taoist

If your post contains only one single video, and you change the video from time to time, it makes no sense man. Why do you do this? The video on which I responded at first was totally different, it wasn't the video with the cat.

You are either joking, or you mistake the effects of chi for a theatrical show...

Adyashanti: Emptiness Dancing

Amazon.com

I have to tell you, this is one of the most surprising books I've ever read on the topic of spirituality. It clearly outlines problems that spiritual seekers face but no one really talks about. It asks and answers important questions, it helps to deal with things that are unsure or uncertain in many of us.

Adyashanti is not from the far-east, he was born and grown up in the western culture, so he has a unique perspective, and a much greater understanding of the problems of western seekers.

A part of the description:

"From the first stages of realization to its evolutionary implications, Adyashanti shares a treasure trove of insights into the challenges of the inner life, offering lucid, down-to-earth advice on topics ranging from the ego, illusion, and "spiritual addiction" to compassion, letting go, the eternal now, and more."

I recommend this book for everyone who is seeking something in the realm of spirituality, and for those who aren't

kali yuga hit the nail on the head IMHO. The real issue here is not anger or jealously, but rather your own self esteem. Deep down you feel unworthy, inferior and possibly unlovable at some level (you'd be surprised how common this is) so of course anything that affirms that (to you) in your life will feel like an attack on your already malnourished ego. You hate her success because it reminds you of your perceived lack.

 

Whether you meditate or not, try to focus on the things in your life that affirm your value and try to make a habit of finding all the little things about you that make you so wonderful . Focus on the qualities you like about yourself and work on the things you don't like. In this way you can steadily build up your self esteem until situations like this girl seem irrelevant.

 

Also, don't be afraid of pride. Pride in your accomplishments and in your inherent value is good and not to be confused with arrogance. Arrogance can be understood as unearned pride.

Thanks for your words. I know how common this is, that's why I posted it so easily...

You're right, it's more about my feelings about myself and less about the actual circumstances.

Thanks for presuming that I'm wonderful

I think I've got issues with pride. I'm not sure about it, it's hard to determine whether I earn it or not... So I rather have issues with determining what I earned and what not...

Women, my friend, are the source of some of the highest highs and lowest lows that a man can go through.

 

Although sometimes I have the same emotional problems much of this I have learned to control and . I believe it is a man's right to not be afraid of his own sexuality and to have beautiful women in his life. Which is why experimentation and experience with women and learning from those who are better than you in this certain field helps. Women are certainly the most complicated thing god put on earth for men; we can learn rocket science but never figure out women. lol. a study of feminine psychology will help. women's minds operate on completely different lines, thinking like a man to figure out a woman will not help you.

 

But I digress.

 

The reason why you feel this way is because you suffer from a "lacking" mentality. You feel deep down inside, even though you may not know it, a bitterness or a resentment at yourself for "not being good enough" or at her for being such a bitch (although she's gorgeous so you're more likely to forget that part) but still want her. You feel let down and deceived by what you very much expected, and now you're still clutching to that woman and what your conception of what could be together. All of which brings pain.

 

 

A good fixer-upper for this kind of situation is to go into mindfulness meditation. Get into the seat of your choice, and feel your body with utmost concentration from top to bottom. relax and just FEEL. Dont judge the feelings or your thoughts -if you do it will be like trying to get out of a trap by further strangling yourself. What will happen if you do this correctly is that you should notice after 15-20 minutes of this meditation the body sensations which manifest themselves as your intense emotional FEELINGS like jealousy, resentment, self-pity, anger, will all dissolve slowly. and your body and mind will find its stillness and peace.

 

The second step is learning to utilize your subconscious mind properly. 99% of all people are destroying their ability to recieve grace and love and attractive women into their life. Why? Because the subconscious mind is a much larger part of the human being than the conscious mind. And it is influenced by the things you say to yourself inside your head. Anything negative you say in your head, even if there is a negative situation happening in the external reality will attract more of the same. You say "I suck" or "i'm just not handsome or confident enough" and the subconscious gives you the same in life. Be careful of what you say to yourself and make sure to only say and feel positive vibes.. Choose to be happy regardless of circumstance and your strength will be that of a mountain.

 

 

The most powerful thing you can possibly ever do here is to LET GO. Are you brave enough to give up your own clutching, your resistance to what is, and let the universe decide? Are you brave enough to expect nothing but let things come to YOU for a change? Are you brave enough to accept the fact that life could go on without a partner? Are you brave enough to go outside your own mind and all the mindgames you play with yourself? Can you live in the moment not clinging to past or forcing the future? Only the bravest of the brave have the strength to do this - and this is what separates the lions from the mice. This is the hallmark of a spiritual warrior.

Well, I'm far from being a spiritual warrior - or a warrior of any kind, actually. But I'll try your method, hopefully it'll help. Thank you.

If you are interested in finding out about the unconscious reward for playing the victim you could try 'games people play' by Eric Berne.

Thanks for the tip, I'll probably check out the book later.

Does that make sense ?

I don't really see the point, probably I don't understand what this husband-cake thing was about... I don't really see the relation between this story and my emotions.

That would be quite a big pay off, wouldnt it.

I don't really understand what pay off means here.

The question "why to open the third eye" is like asking a blind man why he wants to see. Having more senses makes you perceive reality on a higher level, it gives you more possibilities in your life.

I don't think that dealing with the information through the third eye is harder than to deal with information through the regular eyes. If you think about it, your brain needs to develop to achieve the level of perception on which you can actually see something. The development of the brain means that it becomes able to organize the stimuli received from the environment, and is able to put the inputs in their right place among the information perceived through the other senses. So if your third eye is open then you are capable of dealing with it. However, just as well as there are people who see illusions, hallucinations, hear voices, and so on, so it is also possible to have difficulties with the third eye. But these kinds of perceptional dysfunctions are very rare, I don't think you should actually worry about them. Although it might be safe not to try to open your third eye if you already have such a dysfunction...

Are you familiar with Mahayana Buddhism, and specifically The 7 Points of Mind Training? Its one of the most profound teachings on training the mind to deal with all kinds of life situations. Its quite an elaborate teaching, but if you are interested, please check out this link:

http://www.unfettere...ining/about.php

Oh yes, this is the kind of thing I've been expecting, thank you very much. I'll definitely browse the site.

I've got one text called The Power of Mindfulness, but it's still under translation. Such texts are rare to find in my language, and I don't like studying them in English because I sometimes misuse words and it only makes me confused. It's sometimes even hard enough to understand such concepts in Hungarian too... But I'll go through this one, and I hope I'll be able to figure out something.

As you can't "let go" and really want to know, just ask her You have facebook, send her a message. Simple, quick and easy.

The question is not so much about this particular situation with the girl but rather about situations involving overwhelming emotions in general. There are many such cases, some of them cannot be solved by discussion (like losing a close person who you had a fight with, etc.). So I'm looking for solution to deal with emotions, not to deal with this situation.

The eventual necessity of letting go is a good point, it just seems rather painful than reasonable when you're controlled by unwanted emotions

Shame on you! Hehehe.

Well, you didn't help, but at least you made me laugh

I am very-very much envious and angry. The story in short is that there was a girl who first did talk with me and (I thought) we did get along quite good, and then she didn't talk with me for no known reason. She disappeared from my life, and now I found her on Fb, and I see she's in Dubai, she's seemingly having a great life and looks better than ever.

It's just one thing that I don't believe I can ever get to Dubai and I'm envious because she's there. I can't imagine how could she do it. Maybe she met a prince and he paid for everything, maybe she worked hard and got this opportunity... It doesn't really matter how she did it, but I'm envious because she did it.

It's just another thing that I hate her because she's not with me, and I'm angry. She looks amazing, she keeps her body in a perfect shape, simply desirable. But she's not with me. Maybe she's with no one, or maybe she's with a guy who she really deserves - the point is that she's not with me.

My problem here is actually that I don't seem to find a way to let these feelings go. I know, of course, that they'll eventually calm and I'll be able to focus again. But I must continue my practice each and every day, I can't wait for my emotions to settle naturally, I need to solve this issue by will. This is what it's all about - gaining control over emotions. But this is just too much. I can't be happy for her - I can't overcome these feelings.

Besides that it's not really noble to have such feelings towards anyone, it's also a huge obstacle in my daily practice.

So what do you do when there is too much emotion in you? How do you deal with it? Besides having a few beers and cigarettes... I need a more constructive solution.