Athanor

No. One is done with attachment to a doer. The other is a process of undoing, a selfless manifestation.

Isn't the choice you're making the one of which you will talk in the future as a choice which you've made? I don't remember learning in English class about a tense which denotes attachment. Oh well... I'm sure you know what I meant earlier.

Thats good that you dont resort to those kinds of bad habits to deal with stress They can only make things worse in the long run. And now that it is getting warmer outside, I should try to get out more as well. I spend aloooot of time sitting around when I should be out exercising, or just getting some fresh air. Thank you for sharing your perspective on things I often lose myself in the unhappy feelings instead of remembering that it is all temporary, so I end up dwelling on the stress

I'm glad if I could help.

Another thing what I do sometimes is what I call gongfu time. It's a period - like a day, a few days, or so - when I don't watch tv and I don't use the computer at all; I spend all my day quiet and if I don't have any necessity or duty then I spend my time with meditation, taiji, fitness training, reading and such things. I try to focus on cultivating my life in the original sense of gongfu, without allowing myself to be distracted.

This helps with 3 things.

1. It puts me into balance a little when too much technology and civilization distracts me from my desired path.
2. It gives me a little insight on a more spiritual way of life and it helps me understand what I want from my life and what I need to change.
3. And finally, after having this experience, I can overview my ideas and expectations and I can adjust them to reality.

I find this a very useful practice. It's not really good when you're in the middle of a down-time but you might want to try it when you're in a better shape and more aware of your life. In a monthly or yearly perspective these few day gongfu times can give you a great emotional and mental aid.

I recently heard taht there are 17 different sexes

I wonder who could figure this out... and how... and what kind of a pervert he/she is

Where do you get these ideas? Is there some book that precisely measures actions and indicates if there is a karmic consequence or not? I think such a book would be massive and impossible to carry around.

 

The belief in karma (cultural meme) creates fear, limitations and has caused massive suffering (India).

 

Does this belief in an absolute certainty i.e, karma make you feel secure?

 

ralis

Well, there is also no big book which tells you how much you should eat when you're hungry. Yet, you're always aware when to stop, aren't you?

I think you're trying to make fun of this because you mistake physical laws with human concepts. If the thing what we call karma exists, IF it exists, then it is a physical law, and it is working whether you write down its processes in a book or not. "Karma" is the name of the natural law which people tend to accept as real, however, it's most likely not more proven than the belief in universal fate - like a divine determination.

I read so many things about karma, of which some were contradictory to others, that I tried to figure out my own way to understand this. As far as I see, it's simply illogical and unnecessary to determine all choices as karmic deeds, for what you would do in this case is that you would simply define human behavior in another context. Yet, if you distinguish choices and deeds according to the underlying attachment as motivation, then you'll get a separated concept, and that can be called the concept of karma.

Belief in karma creates fear? Don't tell me you're one of those who don't believe in bacteria either... There are many-many things in life which can create fear and suffering. In fact, as Buddha taught us already 2500 years ago, life is suffering. However, he didn't say the reason of suffering is karma - he said the reason of suffering is craving, which means attachment.

I wouldn't say that karma makes me feel secure, just as I wouldn't say that gravitation or aerodynamics makes me feel secure...

Do you believe that there is no absolute certainty? And does your belief in an existence without absolute certainty make you feel secure?

I think when Heisenberg found the uncertainty principle and figured out that nothing is entirely sure in the universe, he didn't care whether it made him more secure or not. He was working to explore reality and nothing else. And I think we shouldn't do other either.

Choices being made and making choices are two different things.

You mean they're not the same because one is done and the other is in progress? So what? I don't see your point.

Choose not to choose? Choosing is what creates Karma. You see...

This is incorrect. If you're hungry and you choose to eat, that doesn't create karma. If your appetite is huge and you decide to eat even when you're not hungry, that creates karma. But the reason for creating karma is not that you've made a choice - it's the attachment to the thing you've chosen.

With all of the stress, doubt, remorse, and many other emotions I have been feeling lately, I find myself having trouble trying to cope and keep moving. I'm sure there have been countless other topics about this kind of thing, but I was wondering about how some of you deal with these kinds of pressures and icky emotions. Any advice is welcome

I try to understand why they occur, what I have done, what I have done wrong, to let them happen. Understanding helps to overcome them through insight. However, if they reach a certain level, clear thinking is impossible. In that case I keep in my mind that everything is transient - so are these emotions. This helps a lot, because it offers the possibility of perspective: it says, even if I feel desperate and hopeless, I can be absolute sure that this will vanish once, and I will be able to think clearly again - I just have to wait. One thing to shorten the time spent for waiting is that I do things which help me remain calm and avoid things of which I know that they keep my stress level higher. For instance, I practice more taiji, I meditate longer, I watch less TV and sit less at my computer, I go out more often and spend more time outside in the fresh air if I can, and I don't use alcohol and cigarette as stress-reducers.

Is there a hidden sniper somewhere lol

 

http://johanarifin.m...Braja_by_dr.Ida

As I see, the glass falls down too fast, I think the video was manipulated.

Many tricks are created involving the crowd and doing the whole trick only for the camera.

But the light bulb thing was cool

Yeah I understand your point. I just don't think anyone in this thread has demonstrated that serious of an attachment to the type of clock one uses. Obviously it's not a necessity, but it might help.

No one else has demonstrated the problem presented in the initial topic either. Maybe there's a relation. Maybe there isn't.

Attachment? Taking it a little far, dontcha think? It's just a pretty clock!

What I meant to say was that I can't wake up in the morning because my clock isn't pretty enough is not a reason, it's rather an excuse. A bad one. And meaning this excuse seriously, regardless of whether you formulate it with these words or not, is an attachment. This is why I wrote that last 2 lines in comment #3.

Of course we can say I took it a bit too far. Yet, these things are usually causing problems in our lives because we think they don't mean anything, but they do. It's all about how you think. If you think with excuses then you will achieve the result of your excuses and you won't achieve your goals.

Thanks. But my ceel phone is not as pretty as Mal`s clock and I want that too

Yes, it's pretty

However, with this kind of attachment you stand against the very nature of your practice.

The cause of the result of gongfu is gongfu itself, and nothing else.

Nice! i think I will get one of those. I use my cell phones alarm and everyday I want to through it into the wall as the sound is horrible. I think Zen bells want make me as anoyed. They might make me feel quite good I think.

You know you can download sound files from the net - many for free -, and you can copy them to your phone as an alarm sound. I do that.

I am a beginner into Taoism and would like to discipline myself (both body and mind). I would be glad if the experts could help me with these two questions that I have:-

 

 

1. I have become a lazy sleeper and find it extremely difficult to wake up early in the morning. Even the alarm doesn't help because I sleep again after switching it off in the morning, and this time for longer! What exercises should I do to be able to sleep less than 8 hours? (I sleep around 9 - 10 hours). And if I have ended up sleeping for long, then how should I negate the consequences of this oversleeping in my body? I aim to reduce my sleeping hours to around 4 hrs. My Sifu used to sleep only 3 hours everyday and was very fit and healthy. But unfortunately he refused to teach me further only because of this laziness and the habit of procrastination that I had .

 

 

2. Next I want to ask how should I erase bad memory. I mean those useless thoughts and pre-conceived notions. For example, I had seen all kinds of porn when I was younger, but now I want to forget all that and erase all the pre-conceived notions about sex developed as a result of conditioning from those videos. The same applies for any other bad thoughts too. I have heard that meditation alone will help me calm down my mind while at the same time reducing the influence of all the bad thoughts and notions in the mind, making it purer and sharper. From my own understanding of Taoism, we all need to go back to our pre-natal state of innocence to be able to live to the fullest. Even zen masters say that real wisdom lies not in accumulating knowledge but throwing away all that we have learned.

#1

The required length of sleep for the body is based on the needs of the body. If your body needs more than 8 hours sleep then the best you can do is to give it the time. The main cause of the needed length of sleep is the amount of used energy during the day. The more energy you use, the longer time you need to restore the lost energy. Used energy doesn't only mean energy which you use for physical education or digestion; the energy you use to deal with stress also goes to this. So basically 3 things which can reduce the length of sleep are eating light food (less energy for digestion), avoiding physical exhaustion, and avoiding stress. However, a bacterium infection or many other kinds of diseases also need energy to be cured, and there are many other reasons for energy loss altogether. The main principle is that the more balanced and healthy your life becomes, the less sleep you will need. This is why all the great masters and enlightened people sleep very few.

You don't need a zen clock, although it's pretty - all kinds of alarm clocks have snooze function, use that.

#2

Bad thoughts about your past deeds are not results, they're side-effects. They're not the results of the deed, they're the side-effects of your mental attitude. They can't be changed with a direct approach, only with an approach towards your whole mind. The person you will become, or the personality you will develop, is the average of all your thoughts, speeches, and actions. Any kind of denial (like denying porn) or desire (like desiring better thoughts) will be added to this mass of which the average will be you. But the effect of such denials or desires is rarely what you expect. When you deny something, you usually can't avoid that thing, you will not get rid of it, but you will be filled with anger and hatred because of the denial. What you resist, persists - as the proverb goes.

Forgetting your past isn't to be understood literally. It's not like cutting out a piece of your brain. It's more like not to bother yourself with the past anymore - and as you don't care about something, you won't think about it, and slowly you will forget it. But as long as you fight against it, you won't forget it. You just keep on going "I hate this thought, I hate that my thoughts make me do that" - and you'll never change. The basic principle is to focus on the present, without thinking about the relation between the present and the past, or the present and the future; without judging the present; and not letting your thoughts wander to the past or the future. If you keep this mental attitude, everything else will change. Because so even if you watch porn with this attitude, tomorrow you won't bother yourself with it, because tomorrow will be a different present, and today's porn will be past.

Zen masters also say that Zen is in shitting. It means that you can find it in even the most vulgar and disgusting things in your everyday life. There is no reason to deny anything, for everything can be Zen. Or the Tao.

Yeah I'm finding it hard to define where mundane, cultural, spiritual, political, religious (and the rest) all "stop". I reckon they don't stop anywhere they just bleed into each other. In fact as soon as I see a border between one or the other I know it's BS.

I also don't think that there is a straight line between them.

I tried to ask a question about this from Adyashanti, he has an online radio program which was broadcasted last time a few days ago at 5 pm their time, which was 3 am in my timezone. I stood up all night long to listen to him. I wanted him to answer because he is said to be an enlightened person and he is married. He spent all his life from teen age with spiritual development so probably he has experience in how to harmonize sexuality and spirituality. But at the end he didn't answer my question. He didn't answer much anyway, he was very slow, the program was 1.5 hours long and he answered like 8 questions altogether.

Another good example where E-Prime can shed light on faulty thinking... "While you were arguing" - A statement you made from your point of view, but by using 'you were' you incorrectly portray that we all saw it that way too. Actually I interpret most of your posts as 'arguments' and most of Mal's posts as 'discussions'. In my view 'discussions' involve building connections and 'arguments' involve winning or being right.

 

The ego argues for its self importance, something we all seem to be guilty of.

And I am Hungarian, and I can use much more shaded expressions for my thoughts and feelings in Hungarian than in English. Pardon me. Your interpretation ignored this fact - and the point of my previous comment too.

Although David Bourlands correctly makes this observation with his

apple example. I think the E-Prime concept has a general error easily

corrected by the use of common sense and a little education...

You know, if we would translate your sentence to my language, we would still have to use "to be" - however, we don't have such word, but we build it into the word it refers to, just as well as you did when you said "makes". In another tense you would say "is making" - i.e. 'to be' would refer to making.

So technically it is still the same, and I still think that being concerned with this makes no sense, however, it shows that you might need to get a life

Let me just remind you that while you were arguing with me about using "is" and "was" and such words too often, other people simply call forum members dogs, and use morally inappropriate sentences. No one seemed to have a problem with that.

So what's pointless about it? Unless you are having sexual intercourse with yourself (or the earth as another person suggested as a devotional practice) or able to reproduce asexually? I have to apologise, I'm getting more and more lost theses days when we take this type of discussion very far "spiritually" and neglect (IMO) some of the more mundane concerns. But if you don't want to talk about it, it's fine by me. My opinion is far from settled on the subject!

Pointless is arguing about what men are like and what women are like - we will never agree, so it's pointless, while we miss the point of the whole topic. I didn't forget that sexuality has a profane side too. That's why I asked how to harmonize that with spirituality. This was the whole post about. At least at the beginning...

In terms of rebirth, I have always found contemplating compost to be a revealing guide.

Oh yes

Buddha taught about the 9 cemetery contemplations, those are quite disgusting, however, the purpose of that isn't about rebirth, rather to understand that the distracting beauty of the body is just an illusion I rather enjoy this illusion a little more and visit the cemetery later

I just remembered this from the compost

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your explanation of selfish-selflessness--this helps a lot. If you don't mind my asking, do you suppose a person who makes offerings for the benefit of all sentient beings creates "good karma" (or gets rid of "bad karma") for themselves? If so, would this in turn give them a better chance at a favorable rebirth (or help them in some way toward enlightenment)? Also, I am wondering if such an offering would help others gain favorable rebirths (or help them toward enlightenment in some way)?

 

I am curious to know your thoughts on these matters.

Just to be honest, I am not a Buddhist or a 'true' taoist either, so my answer isn't necessarily the taoist perspective.

However, if you think about it, you will find the answer.

The concept of karma only has a meaning in regard to the afterlife and rebirth. This is the belief-part - whether you believe in it or not, it's your business. Yet, regarding this very life you're living now, karma is nothing more than things which you do, think or say. Now, the main principle is that good or bad isn't interesting in relation with karma. Enlightenment doesn't equal getting rid of negative karma - enlightenment is without any kind of karma. This means that doing things for the sake of a favorable rebirth is not better than doing things for a rebirth in the lower realms - at least in a karmic sense.

Whether your deed depletes your bad karma or accumulates good karma depends on the deed itself. When something is the result of bad karma, like long lasting or indigenous illnesses, then doing against these (like helping the sick) results in depleting bad karma. When you simply do good for the sake of good result, that creates good karma. However, the main thing should be getting rid of karma instead of accumulating good karma. Good karma can result in rebirth in a higher realm, but it will never lead you to enlightenment or full liberation.

Basically the whole thing is about experiencing anything life throws unto you, without avoiding or chasing any specific experience. This doesn't mean to stop thinking, it means not to cling on a past memory or a future dream. Focus on the present.

You know, in my opinion, the essence of Tao can be found in doing the Tao. While you do it, you don't talk about it. While you do it, you don't care about the result of it. Worrying about the result (or anything) is not the Tao. Doing the Tao - in my mind - means living the life as it is, i.e. not for the sake of something what is not, but for the sake of what is. If you do things for the sake of others, for the sake of good karma, for the sake of getting rid of bad karma, for the sake of enlightenment, for the sake of good rebirth, or for the sake of doing something, then you don't do the Tao. Then you're constantly connecting yourself with your past and future.

Well, "doing the Tao" might be kind of misleading composition but I think you know what I mean.

Oh yes, it's hard. But is worth too.

First of all, I have been thinking about the Buddhist idea of impermanence. I find this idea to be quite appealing as empirically it seems that all things in this world are indeed impermanent. Thus, severing attachment to these things also appears to be spiritually and psychologically beneficial. I like this idea quite a bit and I've been thinking about it from a Taoist point of view. From my own personal readings, it does not appear that this idea is inconsistent with Taoist precepts. The Tao is unknown to us, but the manifestations that flow from the Tao (the "ten thousand things") are temporary, are they not? If this is true, then does it not follow that Taoist would also find refuge in the severing of attachments to the "ten thousand things"?

Yes. Yes, it does. Getting rid of attachment is what we otherwise call liberation, which is a step towards enlightenment.

Lastly, I have a question for my Buddhist friends on these boards. As I have been reading these selections from the Pali Canon, I have a question that I ask in all seriousness about Buddhism: Is there a tension between the self-interest in attaining nirvana (enlightenment) and offerings for the benefit of all sentient beings?

 

Let me explain what I mean by this question with an example: Suppose I just finished meditating and doing some mantras on my mala and I offer this up for the benefit of all sentient beings (which from what I can tell seems to be a fairly standard thing to do among Buddhists). Now to my question: why would someone do this--why offer for the benefit of all sentient beings? Obviously the pure of heart would do it out of love for others and I get that. However, I have also heard that doing this generates positivity for the practitioner and aids them on their journey to enlightenment (quite possibly through favorable rebirths). So is the idea to help oneself by helping others? Or is it merely an afterthought that one might actually help him/herself by offering for the benefit of all sentient beings? OR is this a way to get less developed practitioners into the habit of thinking about helping others? I also recognize that I could be way off on all of this as well and I implore your patience with me.

When you offer the merit of your deeds for the sake of others, it doesn't actually benefit others in a literal way. However, practicing this offering helps you avoid clinging to the fruits of your deeds, which would be karmic attachment, which would lead to rebirth instead of enlightenment.

You can't really practice without having an intention to do something for your own sake. I mean, even when you do something for others, you do it because you feel good about it. You basically always do what is good for you.

The highest good what you can do to yourself is enlightenment, and it can be attained through the liberation of attachment to the "ten thousand things". So being selfless, doing things for others, offering your merits to others, and practicing for the sake of all sentient beings - these all, at the same time, are very much the best things what you can do to yourself. This is why being most selfless means being the most selfish. The difference between a selfish and a selfless person is that the selfless person doesn't care about the effects of his deeds on his own life, while the selfish person only cares for this. When you constantly keep reminding yourself that doing selfless things will lead you to enlightenment, then you constantly neutralize the effects and stay selfish, and distant from enlightenment.

Often times the treatment is cumulative. If you were getting treatment every few days (as you would in many places in China) then gradually the length of time the relief lasted (in most cases) would grow until it was either managed or cured. It is not uncommone for some conditions to see improvement for only a few days then return. Over time you space out your visits until you no longer have to come in at all.

Well, the therapist said that he can cure me with about 4 treatments. I was there for 8 times and still nothing. It cost me about $300 and the therapist said that we should take a break and continue the treatment after a few months. You see, if he would have finished with 8 treatments instead of 4 then I'd say OK, at least he cured me. But he still didn't finish.

For someone who's doing this for years, this kind of mistake is quite unacceptable. I mean if someone would give an order to me, and I would finish months later than agreed and the final price would be the multiple of the original then they'd call me incompetent, and they'd probably be right.

Amazing. I wish there would be someone with this knowledge around here too...

I used to visit an acupuncture therapist but he couldn't cure me. I also had advantages for a short time, like a day or so, but eventually my previous state came back.

However, knowing that the solution exists, and many people are already cured, gives some hope for the future...

Why do American newsreaders have to speak like football commentators? It's quite annoying...

For a beginning, I use the runners groin stretch and riding my bike.

I also do meditation during this time that is designed for different purposes - but needs the energy - Tantric Yoga is a good study but don't expect to master it in one life... http://www.google.co...de49ba9ead933c3

If you live near a University dorm - I would move away until your problems become less and then move beck to intensify them - reasoning is the pheromones women secrete that are designed by evolution to work on the male and do - well I think you know what it do.

 

Watch your body during this time as hair grows much more quickly - which - Taoists point to symbolizing the healing potential of the body during different phases of the moon.

 

Battles were fought in conjunction with the phases of the moon and it was common knowledge for the men not to have sex before battles...

 

It is a really good time to begin aerobic exercises that will both use up your excess energy and improve you as a person. Meditate with empty mind after each exercise.

I think that the connection between battles' timing and having sex has nothing to do with the moon, it's rather the same reason why sportsmen don't have sex before their greatest challenge. Simply because having sex during half of the night requires energy and the same energy cannot be spent the next day in the war or physical challenge. Yet when you have a good sleep then that energy will be restored and you can use it in the battle. This has nothing to do with the moon.

The fact that battles were started according to moon also has a simple reason. Moon serves light for night attacks.

Don't try to find mystical connection in everything, especially when you deal with a very profound thing. The simpler solution is the better. And also remember that however you will solve this issue now, you will remember it later. And it will change you in some way. If you'll remember that everyone was having fun but you were trying to get as far from girls as possible, that won't be a good memory and it won't change you in the right way.

Ah TTB's = blunt knife

 

Alright, so admitting that the last idea on my part (not me;-)) was "narrow", how do you want to approach the issue? We do seem to go down the "men this/women that" generalization route often enough that I suspect we might not get much more out of it except maybe to help some people who are having a tough time with the opposite sex make up some more reasons to validate the way they feel. I certainly find comfort in the idea that it's someone/something else's fault;-)

 

I did hear something cool (sort of) this morning concerning the use of precepts about sexuality by religion(s). It went along the lines "to control the men, control the women." THAT seems more of a big deal to me, but if your immediate concern is getting laid then it probably won't help

I don't want to approach the issue. I asked my questions in the initial post and I just want to know more of those. I'm not interested in continuing this pointless argument about men and women.

When you see a beautiful girl about to enter into your view, consciously do not make eye contact. Look away or down at the ground if you have too. At the end of the day, tally up how many times you were able to do this and how many times you have failed.

...and then you'll feel miserably because you missed all that beauty around you, and you won't see the point of it then.

I think willingly trying to force yourself not to notice beauty is a bad idea. It will result in suppression and a false valuation of beauty, maybe even considering it as a sin, like some Christian priests do. Reality is that beauty is something what you see in something, and you see it because of yourself, and not because of her. Beauty is not the property of the thing or person, this is why we all see beauty in different things/people. So think of beauty as something what you add to that person - it's an added value that will only last as long as you add it.

Not to dwell in the thought of beauty is really the key, rakushun said it right. But how to do it - that's another story. the basic principle is that you take this value (beauty) and you simply decide that you don't add it to the person. But this is hard to achieve.

Meditation and other exercises which help you focus and cultivate your thoughts will eventually give you the choice of free will whether you want to deal with a thought, and add it to something or someone as a property, or you want to let it go. But this is only going to succeed in time, and there are no shortcuts.

What I about men is exactly how varied and different they all are. Trying to generalize about them is like trying to generalize about snowflakes

Very well. Snowflakes ALL consist of crystallized water molecules, ALL have a shape of a hexagon, ALL of them is white (in the sense that they don't alter white light's wave length), and ALL of them is different than all the others in its patterns.

As you see, there ARE common parameters in the snowflakes. Just like in men. And in women. You can't simply say that something is totally different than other things. Ignoring similarities is as narrow thinking as ignoring differences.