Sunya

This is pretty funny, and I don't know how accurate it is since there are no sources, but it's very well possible. Quite interesting look into the possible origins of Christmas! http://erocx1.blogspot.com/2008/12/shamanic-origins-of-christmas.html Well its that time of the year again. So I would like to share Dana Larsen's wonderful essay "Modern Christmas traditions are based on ancient mushroom-using shamans" as I do every Christmas. Just to help spread a little clarity, history and truth about this special season, its rituals and meaning that was hijacked by the Judeo-Christian religions long ago. Who have consequently lost it to our cultures new religion, Consumerism. Modern Christmas traditions are based on ancient mushroom-using shamans. by: Dana Larsen Although most people see Christmas as a Christian holiday, most of the symbols and icons we associate with Christmas celebrations are actually derived from the shamanistic traditions of the tribal peoples of pre-Christian Northern Europe. The sacred mushroom of these people was the red and white amanita muscaria mushroom, also known as "fly agaric." These mushrooms are now commonly seen in books of fairy tales, and are usually associated with magic and fairies. This is because they contain potent hallucinogenic compounds, and were used by ancient peoples for insight and transcendental experiences. Most of the major elements of the modern Christmas celebration, such as Santa Claus, Christmas trees, magical reindeer and the giving of gifts, are originally based upon the traditions surrounding the harvest and consumption of these most sacred mushrooms. The world tree These ancient peoples, including the Lapps of modern-day Finland, and the Koyak tribes of the central Russian steppes, believed in the idea of a World Tree. The World Tree was seen as a kind of cosmic axis, onto which the planes of the universe are fixed. The roots of the World Tree stretch down into the underworld, its trunk is the "middle earth" of everyday existence, and its branches reach upwards into the heavenly realm. The amanita muscaria mushrooms grow only under certain types of trees, mostly firs and evergreens. The mushroom caps are the fruit of the larger mycelium beneath the soil which exists in a symbiotic relationship with the roots of the tree. To ancient people, these mushrooms were literally "the fruit of the tree." The North Star was also considered sacred, since all other stars in the sky revolved around its fixed point. They associated this "Pole Star" with the World Tree and the central axis of the universe. The top of the World Tree touched the North Star, and the spirit of the shaman would climb the metaphorical tree, thereby passing into the realm of the gods. This is the true meaning of the star on top of the modern Christmas tree, and also the reason that the super-shaman Santa makes his home at the North Pole. Ancient peoples were amazed at how these magical mushrooms sprang from the earth without any visible seed. They considered this "virgin birth" to have been the result of the morning dew, which was seen as the semen of the deity. The silver tinsel we drape onto our modern Christmas tree represents this divine fluid. Reindeer games The active ingredients of the amanita mushrooms are not metabolized by the body, and so they remain active in the urine. In fact, it is safer to drink the urine of one who has consumed the mushrooms than to eat the mushrooms directly, as many of the toxic compounds are processed and eliminated on the first pass through the body. It was common practice among ancient people to recycle the potent effects of the mushroom by drinking each other's urine. The amanita's ingredients can remain potent even after six passes through the human body. Some scholars argue that this is the origin of the phrase "to get pissed," as this urine-drinking activity preceded alcohol by thousands of years. Reindeer were the sacred animals of these semi-nomadic people, as the reindeer provided food, shelter, clothing and other necessities. Reindeer are also fond of eating the amanita mushrooms; they will seek them out, then prance about while under their influence. Often the urine of tripped-out reindeer would be consumed for its psychedelic effects. This effect goes the other way too, as reindeer also enjoy the urine of a human, especially one who has consumed the mushrooms. In fact, reindeer will seek out human urine to drink, and some tribesmen carry sealskin containers of their own collected piss, which they use to attract stray reindeer back into the herd. The effects of the amanita mushroom usually include sensations of size distortion and flying. The feeling of flying could account for the legends of flying reindeer, and legends of shamanic journeys included stories of winged reindeer, transporting their riders up to the highest branches of the World Tree. Santa Claus, super shaman Although the modern image of Santa Claus was created at least in part by the advertising department of Coca-Cola, in truth his appearance, clothing, mannerisms and companions all mark him as the reincarnation of these ancient mushroom-gathering shamans. One of the side effects of eating amanita mushrooms is that the skin and facial features take on a flushed, ruddy glow. This is why Santa is always shown with glowing red cheeks and nose. Even Santa's jolly "Ho, ho, ho!" is the euphoric laugh of one who has indulged in the magic fungus. Santa also dresses like a mushroom gatherer. When it was time to go out and harvest the magical mushrooms, the ancient shamans would dress much like Santa, wearing red and white fur-trimmed coats and long black boots. These peoples lived in dwellings made of birch and reindeer hide, called "yurts." Somewhat similar to a teepee, the yurt's central smokehole is often also used as an entrance. After gathering the mushrooms from under the sacred trees where they appeared, the shamans would fill their sacks and return home. Climbing down the chimney-entrances, they would share out the mushroom's gifts with those within. The amanita mushroom needs to be dried before being consumed; the drying process reduces the mushroom's toxicity while increasing its potency. The shaman would guide the group in stringing the mushrooms and hanging them around the hearth-fire to dry. This tradition is echoed in the modern stringing of popcorn and other items. The psychedelic journeys taken under the influence of the amanita were also symbolized by a stick reaching up through the smokehole in the top of the yurt. The smokehole was the portal where the spirit of the shaman exited the physical plane. Santa's famous magical journey, where his sleigh takes him around the whole planet in a single night, is developed from the "heavenly chariot," used by the gods from whom Santa and other shamanic figures are descended. The chariot of Odin, Thor and even the Egyptian god Osiris is now known as the Big Dipper, which circles around the North Star in a 24-hour period. In different versions of the ancient story, the chariot was pulled by reindeer or horses. As the animals grow exhausted, their mingled spit and blood falls to the ground, forming the amanita mushrooms. St Nicholas and Old Nick Saint Nicholas is a legendary figure who supposedly lived during the fourth Century. His cult spread quickly and Nicholas became the patron saint of many varied groups, including judges, pawnbrokers, criminals, merchants, sailors, bakers, travelers, the poor, and children. Most religious historians agree that St Nicholas did not actually exist as a real person, and was instead a Christianized version of earlier Pagan gods. Nicholas' legends were mainly created out of stories about the Teutonic god called Hold Nickar, known as Poseidon to the Greeks. This powerful sea god was known to gallop through the sky during the winter solstice, granting boons to his worshippers below. When the Catholic Church created the character of St Nicholas, they took his name from "Nickar" and gave him Poseidon's title of "the Sailor." There are thousands of churches named in St Nicholas' honor, most of which were converted from temples to Poseidon and Hold Nickar. (As the ancient pagan deities were demonized by the Christian church, Hold Nickar's name also became associated with Satan, known as "Old Nick!") Local traditions were incorporated into the new Christian holidays to make them more acceptable to the new converts. To these early Christians, Saint Nicholas became a sort of "super-shaman" who was overlaid upon their own shamanic cultural practices. Many images of Saint Nicholas from these early times show him wearing red and white, or standing in front of a red background with white spots, the design of the amanita mushroom. St Nicholas also adopted some of the qualities of the legendary "Grandmother Befana" from Italy, who filled children's stockings with gifts. Her shrine at Bari, Italy, became a shrine to St Nicholas. Modern world, ancient traditions Some psychologists have discussed the "cognitive dissonance" which occurs when children are encouraged to believe in the literal existence of Santa Claus, only to have their parents' lie revealed when they are older. By so deceiving our children we rob them of a richer heritage, for the actual origin of these ancient rituals is rooted deep in our history and our collective unconscious. By better understanding the truths within these popular celebrations, we can better understand the modern world, and our place in it. Many people in the modern world have rejected Christmas as being too commercial, claiming that this ritual of giving is actually a celebration of materialism and greed. Yet the true spirit of this winter festival lies not in the exchange of plastic toys, but in celebrating a gift from the earth: the fruiting top of a magical mushroom, and the revelatory experiences it can provide. Instead of perpetuating outdated and confusing holiday myths, it might be more fulfilling to return to the original source of these seasonal celebrations. How about getting back to basics and enjoying some magical mushrooms with your loved ones this solstice? What better gift can a family share than a little piece of love and enlightenment?

Me too! But I still support the idea. I think that through technological innovation, if scientists and engineers ran the show rather than crooked politicians and businessmen, then the hermit's life would actually be much easier to have. BTW, I found this pretty interesting list of differences between communism and resource-based economy. It's worth reading: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=114493158578144&topic=221 I found some good quotes posted elsewhere From H. G. Wells, "The anti-progressives of the early twentieth century loved to assert that "Human Nature" never altered; to imagine that the men of the Stone Age felt and thought like bank clerks picnicking in a cave, and the ideas of Confucius and Buddha were easily interchangeable with the ideas of Rousseau, Karl Marx or De Windt. They were not simply ignorant, but misinformed about almost every essential fact in the past experiences and present situation of the race." The New Utopians by Robert Boguslaw: "As Norman R. F. Maier (and others) point out years ago, the term "Human Nature" is characteristically used as a screen to hide our ignorance about man in general. And one of the more elementary oversights made in discussions of human behavior consists of ignoring the fact that the actions of men are set in motion by external as well as internal forces." As Arthur C. Clark and many other forward writers have pointed out, anyone who brings up the human nature question is naïve. From the book Looking Forward, by Jacque Fresco: "When little was known about cultural anthropology, sociology, and psychology, it seemed quite valid to resist proposed reforms by saying, "it won't work. It is against human nature." It is difficult for many people to appreciate the fact that what they call "human nature" just doesn't exit. People are like mirrors they largely reflect their surroundings. If people were to come into the world with a fixed "nature" consisting of automatic responses, civilization would be impossible. Like the ants, we would live out our lives in patterns that are modified but little with the passing of time. The wonderful thing about us is that we come into this world with maximum flexibility." From The Best That Money Can't Buy, Page 89, by Jacque Fresco Bigotry, racism, nationalism, jealousy, superstition, greed, and self-centered behavior are all learned patterns of behavior, which are strengthened or reinforced by our upbringing. These patterns of behavior are not inherited human traits or "human nature" as most people have been taught to believe. If the environment remains unaltered, similar behavior will reoccur. When we come into the world we arrive with a clean slate as far as our relationships with others are concerned. In the final analysis, any judgment regarding undesirable human behavior serves no purpose without an attempt to alter the environment that creates it. In a society that provides for most human needs, constructive behavior would be reinforced, and people who have difficulty interacting in the community would be helped rather than imprisoned. Aspiring to a particular ethical behavior has to do with human aspirations and ideals. Functional morality is the ability to provide a process level to achieve a sustainable environment for all people. By this, we mean providing clean air and water, goods and services, and a healthy and innovative environment that is emotionally and intellectually fulfilling. It is difficult to conceive of any solutions that would serve the interest of the majority in a monetary-based system. None of this can be accomplished without a comprehensive redesign of our social system and eventual replacement of the monetary-based system by a resource-based economy.

Joeblast, Not that your words aren't compelling, they are, but frankly we're not having a discussion here. This is the 5th page of the thread already and you're still talking about a completely different idea than the one that is being presented. How many times must it be stated to you that this is NOT a communist idea? You really just wasted all that time writing that long post when you could've just read the links already to understand what the Venus Project is about. Did you even read it? I bet you found it a bit rough when the American and French Revolutions brought down monarchies and set up democracy, right? How dare they supplant a "new reality"? Why are you still stuck on this whole "need" thing? Nobody is talking about need. If you desire to go into academia and do research in a topic to contribute to a field, you don't have to see which field is in need of contribution. You just study and learn the topic that most interests you and then go and contribute in it. If you ever "other crap to do" then you do it. Overabundance of resources creates freedom not slavery. You're a slave now to scarcity and conditioned to believe that resources will always be limited.

One question I have is how come there's no archeological evidence to support this? If our civilization fell today, even if it's just a city like Manhattan and not the rest of the world, there would be archeological evidence for millions of years. Why is it that Egypt is missing that? Surely they weren't so technologically advanced and yet built houses from stone, mud, and brick?

Wow, went by so quick. The earth has gone around the sun fully since the last time we celebrated... May this remind us how impermanent life is. Hope this next rotation goes well for everyone lots of insight, lots of peace, lots of joy.

Just so there's no further confusion, this idea is not socialism or communism. It's called technocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

You're comparing teaching enlightenment ideals to a leader who killed 2 million people? I'm not talking about forcing any ideas on anybody. Pol Pot killed teachers and intellectuals. He just wanted power. This has nothing to do with power at all. And it's not 'my enlightenment'. You don't seem to actually understand that enlightenment is a reality and is available to everybody. Are you sure you're posting on the right forum? I don't feel like I should be explaining this to anybody here. Humans are conditioned beings. We are taught values and continually model others. Education wouldn't have to be forced upon anybody if people were taught the true value of learning and inquiry.

Taking away guns will not eliminate violence because the core of violence comes from people being raised with the idea that they are separate selves. They are ignorant of their true interconnected nature. Taking away money by and large will not solve all of the crime. People will have to be taught who they truly are in relation to the greater reality. This is part of the education principle. We as a society are sick. We're diseased. The idea that we are separate is not true. It's pathological, and the monetary system only further breeds that disease. It's not theoretical at all. Modern psychology supports the notion that we're products of our environment. And, being on this site, you have to believe in the reality of enlightenment. Based on the wikipedia quote about kibbutz, you're going to make that assessment? It's hardly relevant and only shows your negative view towards humans based as innately selfish instead of conditioned to be so. Anyway, the kibbutz isn't relevant here. Nobody is talking about sharing all of your possessions and living in a shared environment. I don't understand why this concept is hard to understand. Links have been provided for you multiple times for the FAQ.

I watched the video and it's not relevant. In a non-monetary system there won't be any obligation on anyone else to sustain these rights. The rights that you claimed, the free speech, liberty, pursuit of happiness are straight out of the Bill of Rights. Did God write that? Was it written by nature? No. It was written by humans. These are concepts ingrained in you but society didn't always have them. Free speech certainly wasn't a right during the feudal age, and America wasn't created with these rights because they were "good to have". No. It was created because the current system in Europe wasn't working, and they had a better idea of how things should work, so they created a new system with new rights. Why is it so hard to understand that technology will get rid of any obligation from others? You're still thinking in terms of a monetary system. Except these were not rights until they became rights. The real reward or incentive will be living in a society that focuses on innovation, progress, and the human element rather than competition and the gaining of more material stuff. After this current system falls, people will look for other options. It'll probably be a small movement but will gain in popularity, just like democracy was when it first started.

This is pretty accessible http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/faq Machines can create the tampons. We have the technology today. Most cars are made fully by machines. Sure they require servicing and all that, but with further innovation machines can repair themselves. Other machines can service them and other machines can upgrade them. Of course there will have to be some humans designing and doing some controlling of the machines, and I'm sure many engineers would volunteer for this job. Who is talking about imposing culture or religion or ideals? The fact that technology will make human labor obsolete is a very real reality. The question is: what will we do about it? Are we going to continue this outdated system or create a better one? Communism never actually existed. You're referring to socialism, and I do agree, but communism is stateless while socialism is state-run. This idea isn't communist since communism still has money involved. Capitalism worked by getting us thus far, but it has its flaws. The system tends to concentrate power and money into the hands of only a few, while the many get 'trickled down' upon. The benefit to society has only been indirect. Now we have mammoth corporations. The big fish eat the smaller fish, create bigger corporations, and, rather unfortunately, since these corporations and its members have so much power (money) they get involved with politics. Capitalism leads to Corporatocracy. It used to be great when it was just mom and pop shops competing against each other, but now we have Walmart killing small businesses. Eventually there won't be any small businesses anymore because those who have power can always out compete the lesser fish.

Greed exists because the organism is grown up with the idea of separation and that its survival can be threatened if it doesn't have the means to survive (money). You seem to have ideas about human nature which you think are actually factual. Modern psychology shows that we are products of society and our environment, and though people have genetic dispositions, these dispositions only come out if the environment brings them out. For example, there is a gene identified with depression in most Americans who have depression. I believe 6 or 7 out of 10 Amish men have this gene, yet Amish people rarely get diagnosed with depression. This is just one example of how the environment plays a fundamental role. Society as well. We learn through modeling others and repeating their behaviors. Today greed is very acceptable, so kids grow up nurturing it since those in power, those who society deems as "good" possess it. I'm not talking about rights in a legal sense. I don't know why you are. The constitution isn't some divine document written by gods. It was written by men who wanted to set up a more fair system than monarchy. They succeeded, but like every system, it was only a product of its time and must change. The same with the ideas of Adam Smith and the economists who came after him. Systems are constantly changing. Food, shelter, education are things that can be given to everybody. It's not about whether or not it's a "right" since society defines what a "right" is. Now we have to think pragmatically. The idea that food, shelter, and education should be earned is the idea that people should be motivated to have these things or else they'll just sit at home. This is based on an outdated view of psychology, a field that wasn't around in the 18th century when such ideas were created. We know that there is much more that motivates people than physiological safety. We desire communion with others, collaboration, creative opportunities, and the feeling of actually contributing to society. If these things, food, shelter, education, etc. were given to everybody and the menial meaningless jobs taken care of through technology, people would surely be motivated to create and participate and be involved in something. Everybody has a passion for something. That's the hallmark of children, curiosity. But when a child's curiosity and passion are stomped on by the "reality" of having to work a meaningless job just to earn a living, then that person will most likely never regain that fire. Maybe he had some great idea, maybe the potential to revolutionize the world, but instead he has to work a soul-crushing desk job running equations in spreadsheets. My point is that society would benefit much more if this passion was never stomped on. Curiosity, idealism, and the desire to passionately create something should be nurtured, and the best way to do that is to provide education and resources and not give people this fear that they have to contribute or else

If there is an overabundance of goods, there is no need to distribute. There can be distribution centers and whoever wants a particular good can come get them. Computers can predict demand and create accordingly. What power? What is the purpose of power? Power is about control. Nobody is being controlled in the proposed society. You can actually do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt others. The idea is that with proper education, most people will grow up to be citizens who will desire to contribute and making positive progressive changes. The key element is taking the focus away from the individual and onto the greater reality, that we are all interconnected and part of the same system. People should be raised with this basic truth. It's not merely a philosophy. If children were taught this and shown this experientially, guided to realize this for themselves, then it would help dictate their behavior.

You believe in a global market? There is no free market, and my cousin who is a staunch Austrian school libertarian constantly reminds me of that. The electrical car could've been a cheap reality a long time ago, except the technology was constantly killed by oil companies. Look intoWho Killed The Electric Car and how corporations and government blocked technological innovation. The energy to power the electric car is also a reality. The material to make solar panels is very cheap, contrary to popular belief, and can be made very efficient. Fusion can join in on the fun too. In the game of supply and demand, even if the supply is there for clean, efficient, and sustainable energy (which there can be), demand won't be there and thus the technology won't come to fruition. Now in capitalism, the idea is that demand dictates the market, but demand isn't this divine attribute that correctly guides human progress. The principle of demand relies on free access to information which we do not have. Oil companies (and I really just use them as an example, they aren't the only corporations out there) will advertise against and create propaganda (and even bribe governments) against the use of more efficient alternative cheaper energy because they will lose profit. So, the demand won't be there even though this technology can be very good for humanity, much better than what we use currently.

Try to not get so caught up in being non-conceptual. Of course there is enlightenment, and the experience of the millions who have gone before us is that enlightenment happens progressively in stages with different insights. You are into Zen I presume from your nick? Well, you might be interested to know that koans have a purpose to take one to a specific level of insight, for instance 'who were you before you were born' is meant to bring about an experience of presence while 'what is the sound of one hand clapping' is meant to bring about nondual experience, which is a deeper more profound experience. Xabir can further elucidate on this, but yes even Zen which is all about sudden enlightenment has methods that acknowledge the various stages.

I'm surprised there aren't more bums interested in this or at least having a discussion about it.

Indeed! Of course a real possibility in the future is that instead of such a radical change, the powers at be will just take away more freedoms and retain an even stronger grip on people. I firmly agree with the Zeitgeist author that the internet must be protected at all costs. I do agree with what somebody else said that there will have to be a huge disaster and people will have to lose faith in the political system and corporations. That's the only way. Otherwise, people are just too complacent and will sit around idly watching American Idol while their freedoms are taken away in the name of terror.

This is not communist actually. This sort of system has never been tried before. You have to face the facts. Without unions, all labor would have been automated by now. The technology exists, and it's only getting better. What will happen when that eventually happens? Millions will starve because there will be no work. Not everyone can become a doctor, lawyer, salesmen, etc. There will have to be radical changes. The whole point made here is that the monetary system is based on a scarcity which doesn't have to exist, and technology can remove that need. Much labor can be replaced with technology, and this doesn't mean people will sit around being lazy all day. Modern psychological research shows that people just want to be useful and create. Most of the scientific and medical breakthroughs are done at research institutions by people who could care less about money. This has nothing to do with spreading the wealth. The idea is that in the future wealth won't be necessary because everybody can have everything that they want in terms of resources. It's not about sharing possessions or living in a commune. This site is very informative. http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/faq

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/geothermal.html "We've determined that heat mining can be economical in the short term, based on a global analysis of existing geothermal systems, an assessment of the total U.S. resource and continuing improvements in deep-drilling and reservoir stimulation technology," said panel head Jefferson W. Tester, the H. P. Meissner Professor of Chemical Engineering at MIT. There's no need for fusion. Like I said, geothermal, wave, solar, and wind can power the world for thousands of years, and no the technology is not in its childhood. It's very viable. As for economic reality, it's very realistic. You've been fed propaganda by the oil companies who don't want this to happen. These technologies will be very cheap in the long run, and with technological innovation they will over time get more and more efficient, more and more sustainable requiring less and less maintenance and upkeep. The sun is a fusion reactor and gives off a shitload of energy every single second. We just need to capture that energy. This year alone many breakthroughs in solar energy were accomplished. Science is never absolute and always changing due to new information, but there's certainly nothing wrong with cutting pollution in all forms and being more environmentally responsible. I trust scientists way more than I trust politicians and businessmen

None of that is relevant here. Venus Project has nothing to do with a new world order.

Geothermal, solar, wind, tidal energy could power the world thousands of times over. The technology exists today. The idea that we don't have the technology for sustainable efficient energy is bullshit. The scientific community is lying about global warming?

Didn't he live in the 20th century? How would he possibly know what original Christianity was like?

BTW I edited my post, the wiki on Historicity of Jesus is interesting, and I think the most compelling evidence is by Tacitus who did write about someone named 'Christius' being killed by the Romans. So, perhaps there is some evidence for a historical Jesus, and this only further proves my point that such a movement could not have existed without a real teacher. There is always some truth in myth. No i haven't read any of the Nag Hammadi. Good stuff? All i know about the Essenes is that they are strangely similar to Samkhya in their world-view.

Realizations must be tested. Bring it. I don't remember them using Buddha or even mentioning him, and I just watched it today. Maybe I missed it? I do remember Krishna. Maybe that's who you meant?