Sarnyn

And, it matters because of politics, as Campbell and others have said. "My god is better than your god...blah blah blah..."

 

Of course you are right once again friend. It does indeed matter from a political point of view.

 

But I wonder if here among friends and students of the Dharma and Tao, where we are discussing the tenants, and walking these paths, Is it the time for politicking?

 

 

I don't know. Perhaps even my objection is a kind of politicking. I wish there were a way to not be doing that. Maybe it would have been better to not say anything at all

 

with metta,

 

sarnyn

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

We accept trusts and walked as single syllables, as I thought I indicated when I said, "as you have done"...5-7-5

 

What I was pointing out and patching was back to the immediately previous hiaku's last line. You had quoted a January 2008 haiku by Celtic Dragon, rather than Trailmaker's with the last line: "there! rain on the roof".

 

That is why I began with his line and re-spun your second to fit the mood, and ended with your last line intact, thus healing the chain structure of this haiku chain.

 

Here we patch A7's missed last line back in post #2075, when Taomeow skipped it to return to your earlier one. It's like crochet or chess. Just that we like the chain to be linked if we claim it a chain.

 

So here we start with the immediate previous and end with the missed last line and heal the chain again. Again, sorry not to have been clearer the first time.

 

it had to be yooooou....

'though there have been others too

it just slipped my mind

 

lol my bad homie, i don't know how that happened, I thought I had looked at the last one, but I guess not,

 

sorry for rattling/jerking/breaking the chain! Good fix though, and this is fun!

Welcome Sarnyn to The Tao Bums and the Haiku Chain!

 

...as a chain, we must take the last line of the immediately previous haiku as our first line in ours

and, as you have, stick to the 5-7-5 three line structure, just for the fun of it...

 

So, I respectfully offer this patching haiku...

 

there! rain on the roof...

wet pavements reflect the foot

something propels it

 

 

I suppose that is my diction. I hear trusts and walked as a single syllable.

 

but I think we would be better served acknowledging the distinctions and differences of the various paths, and holding them all as good medicine, for difference ailments.

 

I respectfully disagree, and it's only on the matter of emphasis. I think we are better served, in this contentious age, by acknowledging that the similarities between spiritual paths are vastly greater than the differences that are popularly (and politically) supposed. Joseph Campbell made this clearer than perhaps any other 20th century mind. So few us get to the point where the differences slough off like dead skin that they remain more significant in the popular mind.

 

I think you are very right , that the emphasis is crucial. I think that the truth lies in the emphasis. I think that if you emphasize the similarities, as did Campbell, then the systems will appear very similar. However if you emphasize the differences, then they will appear oceans apart.

 

The mind creates both the similarity and the disparity, according to its discriminating tendency.

 

So with that awareness, is there a way to throw a wrench into that whole process, by saying that whether they are similar, or different is irrelevant? Each thing then, according to its own merit? In other words, why is it important that we see them as similar? Why does it matter if they are different? It seems only to matter because of our attachment.

 

also respectfully,

with metta

"I" am left behind...

To ponder my existence

In the emptiness

 

 

 

In the emptiness,

the foot trusts the pavement walked,

something propels it.

I think that all though I feel that the motivation for this thread was very good, It is very easy to cherry pick quotes from any religious system that sound like any other religious system. However, as a student of orthodox belief of many different religions, a person will invariably come to the understanding that there are very real differences and practices, traditions, and beliefs contained in them.

 

So if the goal of the thread is to say that the traditions are the same, I think that is slightly miss placed.

 

Just as all livings beings are fundamentally alike, yet each unique and important, the same is true of our understanding, and paths in the world.

 

Maybe I am stating the obvious, and I hate to bring a voice of contention into a worthwhile thread, a thread meant to promote solidarity and mutual respect, but I think we would be better served acknowledging the distinctions and differences of the various paths, and holding them all as good medicine, for difference ailments.

 

You wouldn't prescribe the same medicine to all patients, you wouldn't prescribe the same laws to all countries, your wouldn't prescribe the same materials to all buildings, and just the same, I don't think you would prescribe the same path to all those walking.

 

Here we choose what to take according to our need, and no one is better at accessing that need than we are ourselves.

 

 

with meta

One of the definitions for Yin is "Law of Nature" - as The Yin power of distance neutralizes the awesome destructive power of the sun (yang) to the point that it is an energy needed for life.

 

It would seem that the dantian falls into this category as:

Definition from http://taoism.about.com/od/glossaryoftaois...s/g/Dantain.htm

"In Taoist Inner Alchemy practice, the three Dantian (also spelled Tan-t'ian) are the primary locations within our energetic anatomy where qi is collected, transformed and circulated. The literal translation of Dantian is "cinnabar field," and they have a function, in Taoist practice, similar to the function of the Chakras used in Hindu yoga practice. The most important of the three Dantian is the lower Dantian, located in the lower abdomen, 1.5 cun below the navel."

Whats up fellow Hermeticist!

 

Don't forget that according to Franz Bardon it is reversed if your dominant hand is the left. I've actually always been confused by this because I am naturally ambidextrous.

OK.........I've attended a Vipassana retreat. A very good way to learn how to meditate if you have trouble sitting for a long time. I went to the one in Massachusetts. A very good center and was lucky enough to be alone in the room. Here are some pointers to make it easy as can possibly be:

1. Take your own cushions from home with you.

2. Take all your bed linens from home with you.

3. Take an alarm that can vibrate.

4. No reading materials or food brought from home allowed.

5. No other practices other then the method taught allowed.

6. When they tell you have an option to meditate some period of time in your own room instead the main hall, do not do that and stick with the main hall.

7. Follow all the instructions to the letter. You may want to relax and just let go, but stick to following the method. Do not slack off.

8. Do not move during meditation or open your eyes. If you do, your pain will be greater. If you don't think you won't feel pain, hahahahahahahahahah.... too funny.

9. Do not talk to anyone, and try not to ask any questions to the teacher during short meetings you have unless you don't understand the technique. The teachers are there to make sure to teach you the technique properly, not to tak about your experiences, thoughts, feelings etc. Also teachers may change every retreat or so. Some are good and some are ok. Doesn't really matter. They are just there to make sure you learn the method.

10. The best way to survive the 11 hours a day of meditation is to take 5 minute brakes every 1-2 hours of meditation. Drink lots of water. Walk a lot after they feed you to stretch your legs.

11. Make sure you mediate at 4 in the morning in the main hall. Don't try to do it in your own room.

12. Give them a donation at the end as your donations keep the center operational.

 

Hope this helps. If you go, you will never forget this.

That sounds like one of Goenkas retreats. I've been to a couple.

 

Great advice btw! All true. :werd: on the cushions. Bring enough to be comfy, bring a shawl or some kind of body wrap that you can wear in the hall. I found I was able to meditate just fine in my own quarters, though it took a lot of will. The only bad part about that was the snoring. If you go to a retreat, you will get put in a room next to somebody who snores. LOUDLY. Its not a big deal while you you are supposed to sleep because you will be exhausted and will sleep through it. But for some reason that same person who snores will always be that person who sleeps through all the personal meditation hours, making it difficult to meditate in your own room.

 

Personally I woke up half an hour early every day so that I could stretch and take a shower before everybody else got up. I felt like it is easier to maintain the precepts the less contact you have with others. Stretching thoroughly before each group meditation will help you a lot.

This is just a loose thought,

 

but I think for many people nocturnal emissions is a difficult stumbling block, because of our lack of awareness during the dream states. I think that a good practice is to first, start a dream journal, and record your dreams every morning first thing. Then when you have obtained the ability to always recall your dreams (shouldn't take longer than a few weeks) then you can move on to building awareness inside the dream state. Cultivate a habit of questioning yourself about whether you are in a dream or not during your waking life and once you have that as a natural habit, you can carry it over into the dream states. That way, you can control your sexual arousal while you sleep. Once you have this mastered, nocturnal emissions should be less of a difficulty. You can also record your successes and keep track of your dreams, which is rewarding in and of itself.

 

Then when you make that strong determination to retain your vital fluid for the hundred day period, you will already have the tools in place to combat it in sleeping, as well as in the waking states.

Acid being a derivative from the LSA containing morning glory seed renders it unnatural. You also over simplified the LSD synthesis from the ergot source. They call it semi-synthetic because parts of the original compound remain intact, but other parts are from synthetic additions. Once the original structure of the organic but poisonous ergotamine is destroyed in order to make the alterations that end up as LSD, it is no longer organic/natural and is therefore, to my mind, not part of mother earth.

 

Psilocybin however is edible without tampering.

 

I think overcomplicating the experience is a big problem with the way it's used. Too many theories of it's play on reality and internal structure. I believe the real meat and bones of it is that it makes any experience compelling. Your focus can be zoomed in on the present moment like a microscope.

 

Just got to make sure them thoughts don't distract.

 

you are right, I was oversimplifying the synthesis of these two sources. But that was just for brevities sake. I suppose it comes down to what your definition of "Natural" is. In my mind, if the beneficial elements of any chemical that you intend to ingest can be isolated (be they a ritual hallucinogen or chemicals for for medicinal use) there is no reason not to do it, if it means a better result.

 

Complication can be used as a meditative focus. It's possible to think of this as being analogous to the methods of chemical purification utilized by the european Alchemists, or even Taoist alchemists. If removing a base element or chemical structure from a plant makes it unnatural, then wouldn't it make us unnatural when we seek to purify our own mind through the process of internal alchemy?

 

Really the naturalness of thing, should be less important than it's over all effect, and benefit to us in the process of our own purification.

 

But anyway, you are right, what I said was an oversimplification.

 

With meta

If i dont have the money to eat properly what makes you think i have the money for a retreat?

I'm glad everyone is trying to help but hardly any seems to pay attention to my disclaimer at the start of the

post or the reply i made reiterating it. I grew up with D.A.R.E. and a drugy mom, I used to demonize drugs as a young teen. Sence then iv tryed a hand full of stuff and almost ODed on cocain being reckless with it. I have had several friends that have done acid that i could do it with. ATM im straight edge and mainly want to explore its possibilities . Anyways maby its my fault for not being clear enough

 

>>> I don't want D.A.R.E lectures. <<<<

 

Anyways iv already gotten a really good link from what i can tell should i decide to try it, cuz lol atm i dont even have the 10 dollars it takes. So, yeah this post had a good run, thx *everyone* for their replies.

 

Peace and luvv maaan

 

After reading this post I am going to give you some very frank advice. I just made a big long post where I was talking about the ways that ritual hallucinogens can be useful, but I made that post with a certain pre-requisite in mind. I think that living a balanced life with a balanced mind is far more informing and important than anything you will earn from acid or any other ritual hallucinogen. I wouldn't suggest doing them unless you have already done a lot of work to cultivate the tranquility of your mind, and to cultivate your spirit. Without doing that preliminary work, whatever lessons the acid or mushrooms or Datura or Salvia or Peyote might have to teach you, will probably be lost.

 

I don't know you, so I won't make assumptions, but just take care to ensure that if you contemplate doing any of these things for the purpose of your spiritual enlightenment, that you approach it first with a calm, balanced mind with equanimity. Otherwise, hallucinogens are a bad idea.

 

Also, there are some great Vippasana retreats that are completely free of Charge. Here is a link to a great community that offers free ten days retreats all over the world.

 

http://www.dhamma.org/

 

Not only are the retreats free, but they feed and house you the entire time, so you can't use money as an excuse. I have been to two of their retreats and they are enormously beneficial.

 

with meta

To my mind, lose the acid. I think the best hallucinogen is psilocybin mushrooms. It doesn't have to processed, cooked, or smoked, it's just straight from mother earth. I wouldn't worry about it, also the last bit of acid WILL NOT necessarily be all paranoia, that is obviously only Ninpo's experience and I wouldn't pay much attention to that considering you are an individual. I say experiment if to get it out of your system, but if you really want to grow travel and find a guide or take the experiences hand-in-hand with some form of mindfulness discipline.

 

acid is also from the earth, it is either derived from morning glory seeds, or else it is chemically isolated from a fungus called Ergot (the original method) which grows on primarily barely type plants. Physiologically speaking, there isn't much more complexity in a mushroom than there is in a fungus. They are both very old, simply kinds of organisms. In other words one isn't any more natural than another. Acid isn't replicated chemically, it is grown with the use of a solution which basically an ideal growing condition for the ergot fungus.

 

But in any case, most people here seem to be making an argument agaisnt chemical hallucinogens, and while I am certainly not going to say they are necessary, I would like to offer my opinion of why they can help a person.

 

My argument is that all sense sensation in the body manifests as a chemical reaction in the nerve centers and brain of the body. Data is interpreted by the brain and nerve centers in order to create a representation of reality. What we normally assume is that the way our brain chooses to interpret reality is a correct description of objective reality, or the Tao. However, this is not the way that evolution works, evolution doesn't choose what is the most true, evolution chooses what is the most useful which might not correspond to what is true at all. The sense capacity of the brain basically functions as a filter and final interpreted. As a filter, it basically interrupts or ignores any data that hasn't proved pertinent to survival. So this vision we have of the world, this subjective vision, cannot be said to represent actual deep reality. It is at best, a subjective interpretation of an unknown fraction of the data.

 

The problem is that the reality that we perceive is constantly verified by the way that we choose to live our life, and by the way that we reinforce it through language. A word, as a functioning unit, always restricts reality, as does any definition. But the word, or the definition rearely ever expresses the full nature of deep reality (presumably.)

 

So the usefulness of psychedelics, I prefer to say ritual hallucinogens because I think they should only be used in the context of ritual, is to show how easily these collectors and interpreters of data that make up the nerves system and brain can be altered, how other realities can be created based on the disruption, or alteration of the chemical process of awareness.

 

What is important to remember is that the reality experienced on a hallucinogenic trip is no more real than the reality that we normally perceive. It is, in the words of Castaneda, a state of "Non Ordinary Reality" that is equally subjective to the normal everyday consciousness.

 

It is easily possible for an adept to realize this on their own through the practice of meditation without the use of ritual hallucinogens. But for a person with a very strong attachment to what they perceive as normal reality, everyday reality, chemical hallucinogens can ease their efforts in surpassing this what is for some, very difficult hurdle.

 

 

For the Original Poster,

 

I wish that instead of just telling me not to do it when I first tried acid, somebody would have given me some good advice instead, since I am a stubborn person. So I am going to give the OP some advice here,

 

1. when you take it, make sure you take it when you don't have responsibilities for the rest of the day, and preferably nothing important to do in the morning. The trip will only last about 6-8 hours depending, but you still won't want to do much in the morning. I'd recommending planning for the occasion, and not to do it spontaneously. Spontaneity in this matter will only lead to anxiety, which will lead to a bad trip.

 

2. When you take it, take care first to make sure you are going to be in an environment that you feel comfortable, and around only people that you absolutely trust. If you are going to take acid, do it with your best friend, NOT with a casual acquaintance. Unfamiliar people or settings can lead to anxiety before the trip swings into full gear, and can lead you to having a "bad" trip.

 

3. Take enough to make the trip significant. I'm not an expert on specific varieties of acid that have been produced. But whenever I have taken acid (only a few times) I have taken at least 2 tabs/ or candies depending on what form it came in. Next time, since I know how i react mentally and how I can control my emotional state, I will probably take more.

 

4. Don't try to go out into the busy world. Just trust me when I say you don't really want to try to drive a car or be around a big group of people at some party. Taking acid should be undertaken as a solitary (or with a small number of very close friends) experience, where time for contemplation and examination of the senses can occur. Don't do it at a party, at a rave, at school, at the mall, at work, or anywhere where that is very busy. Use the time to contemplate the reaction of your mind in a soothing, isolated environment.

 

Now all that being said, recreational drug use should be avoided, because it has no function. But using a ritual hallucinogen can be a useful for exploring and understanding the limitations of the sense doors.

 

For literature, read Aldrous Huxley's 'Doors of Perception', Carlos Castaneda's 'Teachings of Don Juan the Yaqui Way of Knowledge' and 'A Sepperate Reality,' Allen and Unwins 'Flesh of the Gods,' and perhaps Zaehner's 'Zen, Drugs, and Mysticism.'

 

There are a lot of good books on the subject, I can point you to more if those aren't sufficient.

Everybody here has posted great replies, and I feel like it is difficult to expound on them. But I think some things to keep in mind that are useful, are what we call impediments.

 

In Buddhism there are the five mental impediments that hinder meditation

 

Desire

Malice

Depression or Sloth

Wildness or Excitement

and Doubt or Perplexity.

 

In the Books of Carlos Castaneda, the Yaqui Sorcerer Don Juan says that the four enemies to a man of knowledge are

 

Fear (this is like attachment. attachment to our old way of seeing reality)

Clarity (This is like the cup that is filled to the brim and can't hold anything else)

Power (This is the danger of power without control)

and Old Age (this is the danger of giving in to tiredness, and the desire to forget)

 

There are other examples of these kinds of impediments which plague us as people on a path.

 

Our Christian brothers have what are called the three enemies to christian faith, which are

 

the outer enemy (or the world.) Have you ever noticed how even when you are trying to change, the wolrd that is used to the old you seems to invite you into your old pattern, as though it cannot accept that you have changed or are changing? This could come in the form of friends, of relationships, of a profession, even in the form of objects. Like how the wild grown lawn of the lazy man will fight agaisnt him when he finally decides to shape and maintain it. It will take a lot of work for him to nurture back from it's wild state.

 

the inner foe (the flesh), this is similar to the Buddhist concept of the habit pattern of the mind, except that our christian brothers tend to think of this as being the natural state of the body, sinfulness. I still believe that it is not so different than the Buddhist teaching. In other words the natural state of man without Christ is sinfulness. For Buddhists, you could say that the natural state of man without Enlightenment is ignorance. These things can be thought to be analogous, from a certain perspective.

 

and the stubborn adversary (satan) Like Mara, ignorance constantly reels its ugly head and often comes in the form of a closely guarded truth. Even our attachment to our spiritual quest can be an impediment.

 

Anyway I elaborated on these last three because they are the ones which I am personally the least familiar with, and I am of course projecting that unfamiliarity onto you all. lol

 

 

I think that when we feel like we are in a rut, or when we feel like we have hit that plateau, or when we feel like we can't seem to make the progress we might feel we should be making, or desire, these are things that we can think about, and see if we are facing any of these adversaries.

 

I hope that these thoughts are useful

 

 

with meta

Oh wow, So I actually have it correct. That is interesting, and I did it unintentionally. Odd. Yet it makes me think.

The reversal of the quote from John and the reversal of the hermetic law of correspondence (i.e. as above so below) are interesting because they do not change meaning when reversed.

 

For instance, if one were to say "as above so below" or "as below so above" the ultimate meaning of the phrases is the same, yet it leaves you with a different feeling, like a clock that goes counter clockwise but all the numbers are reversed as well, and so it tells correct time. I think that to say that the material realm is as the divine or spiritual realm is to elevate the material, but strangely, to say the opposite, that the divine realm is as the material seems to lower the spiritual to the material in our psychology. but that is due only to the discrimination of the mind. This is how we are able to gleam real insight from the problem of paradox, nothing has changed but our mind, and so we find the minds differentiation in the paradox.

 

In John we see the phrase, "There is no fear in love" actually creates the same syntactical meaning as the phrase, "there is no love in fear." In both phrases we find fear and love, two separate states of emotion, and the one is defined by the other. Love is where there is no fear, and fear is where there is no love. Its becomes a binary, 1 is not 0, and 0 is not 1. The statements, mathematically are the same. Yet the mind, the emotion reads these differently, with different feelings. One seems to be a positive statement, and the other negative. But where does that positive or negative association come from, if the equation is the same in both cases? It comes from the attachment of the mind. In fact, even to reduce it to a binary seems like a mistake. After all, "one" is more than "zero." What kind of mental weight does that carry? Maybe I should have said, "& is not %, and % is not &"

 

Thanks Marblehead! I'm glad to have stumbled along here

 

meta

My name is Sarnyn, I'm new to the forum but I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for your contributions to the creation and activity of this forum, which I see as a great opportunity to learn for me.

 

I am a practicing Hermeticist of various schools, primarily Franz Bardons school, and student of the Buddha Dharma, and Vippassana meditation. I'm also a student of the martial arts (as a youngster Moo Duk Kwan, and as I got older primarily Kali Arnis Silat. I have been practicing the 8 section brocade to supplement other energy work associated with my hermetic tradition and found this forum while looking for more information about embryonic breathing and the small circulation.

 

I hope to learn more about these techniques and share in the vast resources here, in the hope that I might eventually contribute as well in some meaningful fashion.