chegg

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.” (source: William Gibson)

I've been trying to work out what the difference is between Jesus and the other Spiritual Masters that have blessed us with their teachings. Please add/correct comments as you see fit. According to written accounts, Jesus, - was offered directly by his father to us as a direct embodiment of the word of god. - did not need to meditate to clean out the fetters. - was not perfected over cycles of incarnations, he was perfect on the first incarnation. - he died and came back to life. - the crucifixion/resurrection was a symbolic event of something much deeper in the consciousness of humanity. - he said "I am" not "I was" or "I will be" meaning he has always been in existence and just happened to pop up at the right time -- sort of like "I am the alpha and the omega" ?. can anyone think of anymore ?

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From Castaneda: Ingesting Power Plants* allows you to shift the assemblage point* but they do not allow you to stalk* it. *power plants = Hallucinogens *assemblage point = focal point in consciousness *stalking = the art of controlled folly So, they will shift your consciouness into other worlds, but you will have no control over what is going to happen to you. This will lead to pschological disorders and possible insanity (unless you have been rigourously trained). I found it is best to leave it to the holy spirit to open the appropriate chakras at the right time. It knows what is best for you. Blessings to you all :wub: :wub:

I will talk about this subject from the point of view of what I have read and understand about spirituality and also from what I have experienced first hand (references not included). Please feel free to criticise/add comments. This has been an extremely sensitive subject for both religious and non religious people alike. There are many differing laws on abortion and many more differing opinions. I am in no way an expert in this field and don't claim to be but I will 'give it a go' anyway. Lets look at a few points for consideration: From Wiki: Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion of a fetus or embryo from the uterus, resulting in or caused by its death.[2] An abortion can occur spontaneously due to complications during pregnancy or can be induced, in humans and other species. In the context of human pregnancies, an abortion induced to preserve the health of the gravida (pregnant female) is termed a therapeutic abortion, while an abortion induced for any other reason is termed an elective abortion. The term abortion most commonly refers to the induced abortion of a human pregnancy, while spontaneous abortions are usually termed miscarriages. Some Points: 1. Christian mysticism tell us that every human being has an eternal component to them (the soul). After the human being dies, everything that is experienced is not lost but is kept by the soul. After a time, the soul incarnates into another human being and the process goes on [ref]. 2. There is no shortage of spirit souls wanting to incarnate in this world. From what I have read and heard, spirit souls are literally having to queue up in order to incarnate as human beings [ref]. 3. The theosophists/buddhists say that after birth, the spirit-soul is not concerned with the human individual for the first seven years of its life [ref.]. It is also important that, at this early stage, the child is not to overburdened with too many studies or activities which clamp down on its freedom of thought and activity (i.e., more creative activities or things which the child prefers to do is more beneficial) . This allows the formation of a proper connection between the spirit and the child (ref. Rudolf Steiner / Steiner Schools). 4. Another thing I must mention is that children are the one and only greatest gift from GOD to both men and women. There are many gifts from GOD but this one is at the absolute top of the gift list. It takes an enormous (and an unbelievably painful) amount of humility to know this directly [ref. = me]. Even if you lived for 500 years you may never come to this realization. This is how disconnected we are from GOD. Some buddhists say that when a child is conceived it is a miracle [ref]. I call it the 'miracle of miracles'. Not only because of the apparently small chances of fertilization during love-making [ref] but because of all the hidden, unseen forces that must come into play at the time of conception [ref]. Rationally, the odds are heavily stacked against conception. I'd guess by more than 10 million to one [documentary ref.] - yet it still happens and does so consistently. 5. An embryo or foetus has no physical consciousness [ref]. It may have a 'will' to live but it has not yet developed a 'free will'. The embryo / foetus may have an awareness [ref]. 6. There is a large amount of energy expended in conceiving and rearing a child and this taxes the energy from both the mother and father [ref.]. 7. If the child is unwanted, it may develop serious psychological problems both early on and later on in life. 8. One of the 10 Commandments states that 'Thou shall not murder'. Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with "malice aforethought", and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). It seems that abortion could fall under a type of homicide such as manslaughter rather than murder. 9. There exist other divine laws which most of humanity may not be aware of. Such as the 'law of one' and the 'law of cause and effect', i.e., there may be serious consequences later on down the track for someone who deliberately sets out to terminate a pregnancy. 10. To have a child/children is a 'command' [ref.]. The shamans 'saw' that one of GOD's 'commands' was to have a child or children. The 'command' did not say that couples must continue having children [ref]. 11. A terminated embryo or foetus may continue to grow and develop in the afterlife [ref.]. This suggest that it will not have the same opportunities and experiences that it would have if it were to grow up in this physical world. It will not develop in the way we do as human beings. 12. There is a difference between a two week old embryo and and 9 month old unborn foetus. This difference is only physiological. Spiritually, the consciousness of a fertilized embryo and and 9 month old foetus are possibly the same [ref.]. 13. According to buddhism, the spirit enters the child when it takes its first breath [ref.]. 14. It is almost certain that an abortion will cause changes in the pregnant woman's personality and in some cases a female will develop serious, difficult to repair, psychological problems such as depression, anxiety and suicidal tendencies. In summary: 1. There is an eternal soul which develops by 'acquiring' experiences from an incarnated human being. 2. There are many spirit souls wanting to incarnate in this world. 3. It takes seven years to develop a good human-spirit soul connection. 4. Its the 'miracle of miracles' to conceive a child. 5. An embryo or foetus has no physical consciousness. 6. There is a large amount of energy expended in conceiving a child. 7. If the child is unwanted it may develop serious psychological problems. 8. Abortion is likely to be classed as homicide rather than murder in the eyes of some civil laws. 9. Divine laws may be violated. 10. To have a child or children is one of God's commands. 11. A terminated embryo or foetus may continue to grow and develop in the afterlife. 12. There is only a physiological difference between a embryo and and 9 month old unborn foetus. 13. Spirit enters the child when it takes its first breath. 14. Woman's personality may permanently change for the worse after the termination of a pregnancy. Discussion: Now, if we were to terminate an embryo, we would deny the spirit-soul a chance at development as outlined in point 1. We could argue that the soul can then wait a bit longer and find somewhere else to incarnate as a human being. But remember in point 2. that there are many other souls waiting 'in queue' also. In other words we have denied the spirit-soul the only chance is has to incarnate for what could be a really long time to come. Point 3. would suggest that not much is lost by having an early termination due to the immature nature of the embryo, the lack of connection with the spirit-soul and the absence of any experiences. Point 4. states that a woman is given the 'miracle of miracles' and by termination she throws that gift away. It is unlikely that the embryo suffers during an abortion by point 5. It may have an awareness however, that it is going to be destroyed but this is not in the way in which we would understand it. If the child is unwanted it may develop serious psychological problems and may be detrimental to both the mother, father and child (points 5. and 6.) The child will probably develop psychological problems if it is raised by a mother or father that do not want it. This alone, I would think, does not completely justify terminating a pregnancy. You are not committing murder by terminating a pregnancy according to point 8 however it could be argued that you are killing a living entity and is a form of homicide. Point 9. suggests that there may be karmic consequences for the parents who deliberately terminate a pregnancy. These consequences my be big or small and occur later on in their lives. GOD's command is to have children but this does not mean you have to have a particular child from an unwanted pregnancy as mentioned in point 10. Point 11. suggests that it is better for a child to grow and develop in this world rather than in the after life. This possibly contradicts point 13. where there is no spiritual connection until the foetus takes its first breath. This implies no afterlife for an aborted foetus. The woman's mental health is affected in a permanent way in point 14 which is just one of many consequences from point 9. and point 6.. From a spiritual perspective, it is not a good idea to have an abortion. I'd say you would be in violation of GOD's laws. This, however, has never stopped humanity from violating other divine laws. Which other Divine laws is humanity continually violating ?.... probably all of them [ref.]. From a health perspective, it is not a good idea to have an abortion either. Bringing up an unwanted child is also not a good idea from a health perspective for the child or the mother and father. Should the free will of the host (pregnant woman) be respected, protected and upheld always (without any attempts to apply force to her or coerce her in any way) ? Would Jesus force anyone to do anything against their free will even if they were harming themselves or harming others ? Is breaking one divine law (taking away the free will of a pregnant woman) to fix another (sustain the life of an unborn child) the right way to go (both morally and spiritually) ? Conclusion: Abortion is an improper way of life. GOD is life. Abortion is death. Its the mother/father's choice - they have free will. They must, at least, be made aware of the consequences? ....Anyways, I must also spare a thought for the large number of unwanted children, homeless children, cases of child abuse, divorced parents, murders, senseless killings and horrible wars in this world. Perhaps I should've addressed these issues first eh ?

Thankyou Mr 9th. That quote is very helpful. many blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts :wub:

Thanks Rongzom, I looked up 'bardo' and found it as being an 'intermediate state'. Thanks deci belle, Christ also said that "no one gets to the father except through me" Is he simply implying "no one gets to the father except through your real-self awareness" ? You guys get 3 and a half blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts ! :wub: + /2

Lol, thanks cat. Sorry, but I couldn't keep a straight face while watching that guy at the start. I think I've got the 4 am giggles.

[off topic] I thought Osho had some pretty good teachings. I don't think he was purposefully sinister or malicious in any way although others have given him a pretty bad rap. Just like the in Christian religion, his own small following in the US wasn't exactly a paradise. But that is just from what I've read/heard on tv. [/off topic]

"You can't experience real love down here" - (quote, source suppressed) I didn't understand this quote until I woke up one night on the 'other-side' (almost super-conscious). I found friends which I felt love towards with my entire mind, body and soul. Yes, my whole body could feel love and every part of me was connected directly with them with an incredible attraction and I knew everything about them, everything ! I knew every past life, I knew everything they had ever done, I knew that I had always known that I knew them and I knew that they knew. I was almost in tears. I just wanted to hug them for ever and ever and ever. When I came back to normal waking consciousness, the love had gone, the knowledge was lost, and everything was dull again. Bummer ! And that was nothing compared to my wife's encounter with the love of the Holy Spirit. It was so over-the-top, she kept refusing to come back. Extreme bummer ! My advice would be to 'chip away' slowly at not hating people and do not worry too much about 'love' & 'hate' & 'apathy' in the normal waking state.

Here are a couple of quotes. Quote 1: Look inside your own masters heart.....GOD is eternal, unqualified, perfect divine energy. GOD is not just love. GOD is all things, and is no more love than hate, no more tenderness than fury. GOD is the creative energy which is 'in' but 'not of' earthly and physical things. GOD is not anything less than the totality...GOD is perfect energy, perfect radiance. But he is unnamable....You know GOD only when you have the divine experience, when you raise out of your own flesh the radiant GOD that is intombed there." Quote 2: "What we know of God we see in reflection as witnessed both externally and internally. Absolute Beingness (GOD) is, above all, the Divine Common Selfhood, as Beings within the One Being. Love, Light and Life belong to the primary Nature of Absolute Beingness as Total Love, Total Wisdom and Total Almightiness. The Love of God is universal, ceaseless, and unconditional. It is the Love of God, expressed as Grace, which lies at the core of Creation. The Light is pure, luminous Super Self-consciousness. Everlasting Life is the eternal motion, generation and regeneration of Its expression. Other characteristics of Absolute Beingness, in Its Omnipresence, include Multiplicity, Self-sufficiency and the Will-pleasure to express Itself in Itself as Creation. Absolute Beingness (GOD) manifests Itself as the Logos and the Holy Spirit, ( 'and these three are one' -1 John 5:7 )."

I find your posts here are all in good spirit. Take one gentle back/neck/head massage and all will be well. You get 4 blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts ! :wub: :wub:

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Ok, lets look at the occult school of the TAO bums. Having nothing but their intiution and a loving heart, they start with a hypothetical scenario....... Chegg, by some strange means and by occuring completely out of the blue, becomes God. Chegg, looks down at his children. Hundreds of them are playing. Then thousands, then millions !!! Chegg, notices something out of the ordinary. Most of the kids then start fighting, killing, drug dealing, stealing, lusting. Chegg, loves his children enourmously, regardless of their transgressions. He loves them even more than any worldly mother or father would love their own kids. Chegg, then sees that one of his sons went off, against his father's will, and had a fling with a girl and got her pregnant even though he had no intentions of marrying her. Sort of like going against the arranged marriages that occur in some countries/religions (just another crude reflection of the spirit world perhaps ?). Chegg, notices the pregnant girl, unaware of the spiritual laws which are crudely reflected in the moral laws which, in turn, are crudely reflected in the man-made civil laws, wishes to terminate the preganancy. Chegg, notices that all the other children, rather than examining THEIR OWN FAULTS, start damning her, criticising her, wanting to punish her, judging her even beyond anything the father could have thought up. Chegg, still loves the girl beyond imagination, regardless of what she will or wont do. He gave her life, he gave her free will, he gave her all his love and he continues to do so for eternity because this is HIS daughter and he LOVES HER UNCONDITIONALLY. And that, right there, is why Chegg is God

Peace be with you....everyone !!! It seems to me that a human being will start developing at that point in time when a spermotozoa successfully fertalizes the female egg (ovum). But this is just what appears in the 3d world. What goes in the the psychical, noetical and higher worlds maybe a totally different ballgame. I will have to study this stuff a lot more I think. Incidentally, shamans believe that females are capable of inducing conception without the use of male sperm. The downside is that its heavily taxing on the energy body of the female. Christian mysticism mentions it is possible to fecund a woman through specialized control of the higher bodies (again, no physical sex necessary) and that it is also possible to create living matter directly using the super-conscious (super-sensible) mind. Its sort of similar to doing an immaculate conception or a virgin birth. But I digress

It was a hypothetical question. I have no statisitcs on hand but there have been similar cases. You are under no obligation to answer it.

What if the unborn foetus is going to be born with no arms, no legs, half a torso, no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tounge, hardly any brain and has a tendancy to urinate and deffacate uncontrollably all over the floor. Are you going to volunteer to look after it for the rest of your life ?

That is the 'free will' argument. If civil laws clamp down on people too much and it has the effect of taking away everyone's free-will to choose, then we will just end up with a planet of robot-like humans ? I know, its an exaggeration on my part. But one will have to draw the line somewhere. Abortion might be a special case because there could possibly be two wills involved. One is the mother's will to terminate the unborn and the other, the unborn babies will to stay alive. If its the case of 2 wills then the quote below might be relevant: "There are three universal laws and they go something like this. 1) Force, be it physical or deceptive and contrary to the will of any other, shall never be applied. 2) The only exception to this is such force is allowed, but only towards those breaking the first law, and only to stop them breaking the first law. 3) There are no exceptions to the first two universal laws. The integrity of these is solid, self contained. Turn them in on themselves and they still stand."

Please move to appropriate forum if you like. I was more interested in the spiritual/occult aspects of abortion and what karmic consequences there may be. I'm not an expert in any religion/teaching so I just posted stuff I remembered, which could be wrong, as some of you have graciously pointed out. Thankyou for your replies. I give you all 4 blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts. :wub: :wub:

I like this mystic...found it to be interesting. I think he passed away in the 90's. Hope it is relevant

Sounds rather plausible Cat. Have some blessings from the karmic-scale-of-good-posts: :wub: The feeling I get from the way its written in the bible is that its more of a 'permanant divorce' but a 'broken - ness' is probably ok too.

No offense taken. From now on, I will not 'award' any blessings for you, (but I will save them up for you, just in case you change your mind). As far as the 'eternal damnation for the unrepentable sin' goes, maybe I will just have to accept it without there being a good reason behind it and accept that there are things in life that are just 'irreversible'.