oceanside

Oceanside - I really feel it is unfortunate that you and others are moving off of the practice because of these things - it saddens me. There is so much available to you on the other side of this, but follow the heart - it points true north.

It hasn't just been about reptiles.

Maybe I'm already on the other side of this and

it's just time to go.

Thank you for your concern.

I like -O-

 

Hindsight is 20/20, and the more I think about it the more I am beginning to believe that almost all of what we were teaching in our seminars was too much for the general public. My dream was that the world needed these practices and we were going to deliver, but the fact is one must be of a certain mindset and have a certain level of understanding before trying this stuff. That is either built in or comes from years of study.

 

This isn't some arrogant statement I am trying to make either so spare me that misinterpretaion please. I'm simply questioning the philosophy of "putting it out there and seeing what happens". These are the practices given to the most advanced students of their respective schools and some only given to one or two select students who have proven themselves over years of training to be able to handle the ride that was in store for them.

 

On the other hand, many who are benefitting would have never had the methods if we didn't present them as we did, so I don't know.

 

I think perhaps it is better for most people to just do something simple like the attention practice outlined in Dan Emmons book, Life Force. It is equally powerful and effective and definitely beneficial to advanced practioners while being gentler for the beginner.

 

(Also, I have no business arrangement with Mr. Emmons and make no financial gain by promoting his work. I am just sharing something I think people would like.)

Thank you Chris.

Exercises that are allowed to disintergrate due to the lack of precise followup-instruction by the teacher.

A big thank you for this lovely rain.

Unfortunately, again you are changing the context of my words to suit your own purposes, which are opposed to my own in this case. You misinterpreted the context of Satori's comment as well. Did your parents make sure most aspects of your life were well arranged and well taken care of when you were growing up? It seems like you want a "spiritual parent" of sorts, and that's not what this is about. Take responsibility for your actions. You have bootstraps. Use them, take a step back and find some objectivity. You cannot compare a spiritual practice to a particular menu at your local mall - it holds in only the absolute loosest of applications, and you're well out of the realm of applicability here. If someone showed you the range of kunlun practices and never said word one of reptilians and you had never encountered the concept, what do you honestly think the chances of such manifesting on its own in your mind would be? Next to zero.

 

Sorry to be curt; it irks me when I make a statement and someone attempts to utilize it in an attempt to support a diametrically opposed viewpoint.

Sincerely hope all that made you feel better.

the tao has put forth a great many things for you to sample, it is up to you to choose what you focus on.

It's like going to the food court and picking the funky Asian place, bumming out on your food and then blaming the mall for your choice.

That's exactly right and that's exactly what I meant. That funky Asian place was there for me to choose from in the Kunlun Mall. It's never been part of the choice with other practices I've tried. I don't think I've blamed anyone for it, but did naively assume that there'd be some more help in regards to whether or not considering it and other things as "reality" was in my best interest.

I will speak from many perspectives depending on the situation. Give it raw or refined, depending on what I feel is needed.

 

I am my own person and I don't need Trunks approval or anyone else's for validation.

You did help me. My sincerest thanks for illustrating the definition of EGO-PENIS.

The Kunlun practice puts reptiles on a plate for you to sample.

I stand by this comment and won't apologize for stating the truth.

What are they becoming?

My comment was in reference to Satori's behavior. It hasn't

happened to everyone but to enough Kunlun people that

it has made me rethink this path. -O- was the first Kunlun person

who posted that showed me something else, and of course Max. I always liked the

way Max wrote about things too.

I haven't meant to offend with my comments. If I have then I'm truly sorry

about that.

I won't be posting again.

Which brings us back to this:

People ask if anyone got hurt, or assert that no one got hurt. Again, I'm rather astonished. If you read the links, you'd know that...

 

There was a situation where negative reptilian entities were harassing Yoda and those in his home, including children - and stubbornly wouldn't go away... Yoda had to find extraordinary outside help to get the entities to leave - and it took a while. And, he said that he had talked to "more than a dozen" kunluners who had problems with negative entities - at least one other had the problem of entities bothering others in the household. Isn't that enough?!?! to define "harm"?!?! Jeez!, who are you people?!?

 

So, we know that there is a trend in the KL school that this sort of thing happens. Let's look towards the future. What about parents that took, will take, KL seminars after this trend became known? If I were a father and I took a seminar and later my kids started having "reptile trouble" and I found out that it was a known trend in the KL school and no one warned me before-hand?!?! What if a parent (seminar participant) had a child at home with emotional/developmental troubles? What if a parent had an infant, too young to talk, in the house? ... or if a wife in pregnancy? What sort of minds disregard thinking through these simple predictable situations?... and deflect, diminish their significance?

I'm out. I've had my fill and know I can do better for myself

in other directions. I don't have any direction at the moment.

The outdoors beckons, and that's a good start.

I agree.

The Kunlun practice puts reptiles on a plate for you to sample.

I guess... my intention is not point fingers or bash KL or Max. Not at all. I agree about some hindrances - I think we both do. I came to this without guidance - I came to it because I didn't give up or give in- I questioned my intentions, motivations (not my inherent nature). So I post hoping to bring some clarity to others (as I don't have many answers) - and hope that others can find a new - or re-newed opportunity in their practices. One which will carry them past these hidrances.

 

I get that the behaviour and words from others has hurt and hindered. Focussing on this - looking for apologies etc. this doesn't serve you well. It is a matter of distinguishing what is guidance and what is not. Something said could really help one person - be meaningless to another - and hinder some one else. If you find guidance that is not helpful then a greater clarity can come from working through that - actually much more benefit is found from that then from answers to questions. Holding onto the regret or remorse doesn't help anyone. I don't want to participate in that.

 

With regret and remorse there is an chance to move through into deeper expereinces of forgivness, greater clarity around empowerment, distinction of what a real result is (rather than what you are hearing from others). Some people take two steps forward and find everything they are looking for, others have to walk a mile and it is still not enough, doesn't answer the deep longing. At the end of it all who do you think will have the deeper understanding, the lasting compassion, the clarity of reality. Those that have to walk farther learn allot more, OWN their advancement, can stand on thier own, understand true humility, have compassion based in awareness (not intellect), make huge changes in the world WITHOUT extrodinary abilities - but by who they have become.

 

Not everyone has responded to these teachers words the same way - not everyone has felt the fear, but some have. It simply comes down to this - those teachers did not have all the answer, or right string of words, for us who have hit on these issues. But to us that have hit this - when worked through- will have the answers for others.

 

Here are two quotes from another teach of mine.

 

"Everything in this work is imagination until proven otherwise".

 

When he approached his teacher, having felt very discouraged - not feeling any advancement. His teacher said:

 

"What I am hearing from you is that you do not want this - where is your passion, your deep desire for the divine? How much do you want this?"

 

Your deep longing to progress is the fuel for these practices. How have these events helped or hindered that deep longing?

 

I don't want you to think I'm positioning myself above or beyond anyone else - it was my dedication and commitment to my own growth which saw me through these same issues - without guidance from anyone else. If I hadn't then I would still have the arrogant drama - the rejurgitations of Max's words - the drama and excitement of reptiles - feeling so much more advanced then the mindless grey masses (yet having a tremendous amount of compassion as I looked down on them) - and the assumption that divinity is something out there to be achieved at the other end of the "process" which I have now achieved. But instead I let that go and I felt betrayed, hurt, passed over - then regret, loss, failure - then clarity, forgiveness, humility - then landed in a place which is far more real, deeper and worth while then anything that was available in the dramas of lamas, tulkus and aliens.

Thank you. You offer me the first glimmer of positive change that's

potentially possible with this practice.

Yes - and at first there was scary stuff - and other time I thought the most ridiculously outrageous stuff as well. But I had to acknowledge that my reaction to the events where causing more confusion/delusion than anything else.

 

When I sought out the expereince it occurred and was useless and problematic. When stumped and not knowing how to deal with it - I simply acknowledged the event and carried on. At this point there was growth and guidance that came - very subtle - never "WOW"ish. And only after I acknowledge that some of it was real - some of it was not - But the knowledge and wisdom which came has been very helpful and very subtle. Only after the form was stripped from the information and after I placed a value on reality testing. I can't test wether the person sitting infront of me is real or not - so I carry on - I can however test whether the techniques and insights given from them are valid or not - by reality testing.

So do I consider the beings which appear as real? No. Do I consider them illusion? No. I can't test the reality of it so I simply don't know. I have gained from the expereince so I don't reject it all as false.

Some engaged all of it and still do and not in any kind of a testing way.

There's always been an arrogant attitude in regards to answers to questions regarding it, that we were too scared and would just "pee and poo our pants" and that somehow we couldn't or wouldn't be able to handle any of it. That's why I say that any fear around this wasn't created by the students but came right from those teaching it. There attitude suggested to me at least that they all knew something I didnd't and that I should indeed fear it.

I consider having guidance in regards to something like this as a necessary tool and because it was missing it might possibly be the reason why so many people get so attached to the experiences, the teacher and the other students etc.

I've not seen posts from anyone very far along the Kunlun path. I also believe the one can attain allot of bliss, compassion, extraordinary experience - without achieving allot of genuine spiritual or emotional maturity.

 

Just a note - a person can gain extremely extraordinary abilities with very little maturity. Extraordinary world and beings - in there essence are illusory. In the entire field of awareness - weigh all things equally, no thing of greater or lesser importance - aware of all with equanimity.

I agree with this.

I've not pushed away the negative and have noted that some others haven't either. The questions have always been whether interaction with all of it was in the practicioner's best interest.

You've experienced the entities then? Voices? Visions? Abilities? Corresponded and dialogued with it and used it as guidance on your path? Or have you looked at it all as illusory and said no thanks?

I ask because it's really easy to write what you've written when you haven't. Genuine guidance from those who have lived it and have found a middle way would have been appreciated.

I've not seen posts from anyone very far along the Kunlun path. I also believe the one can attain allot of bliss, compassion, extraordinary experience - without achieving allot of genuine spiritual or emotional maturity. There's allot of regurjitated words/concepts from the inner circle. I think you might be confusing the two things which leads the contradiction that the people who are outspoken are somewhat further along. Truth is the ones who are further along are not going post unless driven to

 

I can't say I understand completely the situations you are refering to - how could they have been cleared up immediatly? It sounds like you have some thoughts on this.

 

One of the flaws that I have found with the guidance is... one hand there is non-duality, one law etc... on the other hand there is the positivity - negativity idea. Truth is it is all one energy, all one substance. It can be course, thick or it can be refined, free flowing. When I began KL there was allot of sadness - I mean an unbearable amount. As I continued the sadness turned to anguish, then to tender vulnerability, then humility, then compassion. It is a very raw experience. The experience moved from a very rough, raw, slow moving ache and began to transmute, slowly at first, into a more refined opened free flowing experience. It moved from the seemingly negative - to the seemingly positive. I don't think of events, attitudes, emotions in this positive/negative light anymore - but rather the experience as it is for me at the moment. In opening up to the experience of life, with a kindness to myself and a sincerity then these experiences begin to change. At any moment the mind will try to attach meaning, give form to the experience and at times this form as been big and ugly - other times grand and beautiful. And every time the form has been false, illusion, delusion etc. and never if I willing accepted the form over the raw experience then everything stopped. It stopped as soon as I drew a conclusion, formed an opinion, said "this is it", focussed on it as real.

 

I see from the posts here (which is very limited information thus could be off base) KL'ers which have either grabbed onto the positive (life is so wonderful, blissful all the time, extraordinary experiences etc.) or pushed at the negative (demons, illness, etc.) And in both cases it has stopped any maturity. Life is life, living is not limited to only the positive - to do this, to have this as a goal is limiting - it limits your experience of life and self. What I have experienced of Max and allot of his students is an aversion to the "negative" - and avoidance and refusal to deal with anything "negative". It's their choice and I respect that, however I find this is lost opportunity, and not a full embrace of experience and life.

 

How can you be fully "opened up" yet still push aside, avoid anything you find course, bothersome, negative? How can greater clarity of awareness be achieved by the rational and reasons to do this? You simply can't. I tended to do this at the beginning as well until two things came up for me 1) I was protecting my "bliss" 2) if this "bliss" was based in reality it would not be harmed or diminished by any "negative" situation. Bliss has come and gone, and that is okay too. We are all extraordinary - not because of some achieved magnetic body, or potential we might achieve energetically - We are extraordinary as we are today, there is such a beauty in even the worst of feelings and experiences - when your available to life.

 

The fuck off attitude, and general arrogance ( or rather feigned humility) is not a result of the technique - it is a result of relationship to and attempted emulation of - the teacher. Please don't confuse the two.

 

Agreed, although you can learn from all of it if approached properly. If you approach these practices having in mind that some positive change to the self, experiencing other worlds, of gaining abilities etc is the goal. Then progress will be precarious. Just a note - a person can gain extremely extraordinary abilities with very little maturity. Extraordinary world and beings - in there essence are illusory. In the entire field of awareness - weigh all things equally, no thing of greater or lesser importance - aware of all with equanimity.

 

Don't confuse the students on either side of this situation with the tool.

 

I truely feel your pain and wish all the best through this tough time. Perhaps there should be a "kunluners in exile" forum :-)

Thank you for responding to my comments.

He's good, he said he'll be back in a couple months last time we talked.

Thank you for letting me know!

Hello oceanside,

 

Could you please share your kunlun experiences? Or, perhaps why you stopped?

 

What you are saying makes some sense to me, this is why I ask.

Just voicing out loud some thoughts based on TexasNative's comments.

I stopped because I don't like who the Kunlun people I started out

with are becoming. I don't want that to happen to me.

Welcome brother. So, care to share your story and why you stopped Kunlun?

Thank you. Don't care to tell my story. You've heard it before on

the Kunlun site anyway. I didn't talk as much as some but

managed to share enough just the same.

Why did I stop?

I think I can do better for myself.

Mind if I ask why you never committed to it 100% and

keep jumping from teacher to teacher and

practice to practice?

What I have found is as soon as it became bothersome - he would threaten to shut it down. This has been my experience and I'm sure there are many people whose expereince is very different.

He does disappear when things get bothersome.

He kept telling me that he wasn't a teacher. I thought he was being modest

so didn't take him seriously but realize now he was telling the truth.

He also said he wanted to be a friend but then he kept disappearing when

things got bothersome.

How is Yoda doing? Does anyone know? How are his kids doing?

Thank you for the welcome!

]

What exactly have you cleared up?

You've put a halo around the practice and the teacher.

How have they helped you with letting things go?

It is a great method for dealing with the deep things we stir up in our Kunlun practice to help us harmonize them.

Having this setup and in place about 2 years ago when I attended my first seminar would

have served me well, as would have been some help from you or Max when I

I had questions about it.