Bruce

I do not believe the bible is erroneous. I do believe that certain things have been added and taken away over the years. The problem however is that you came onto this topic specifically looking for trouble which is why you bashed the bible. You came in here a like troll looking to stir the pot. I dont only expect agreement on every thread but considering the topic, I would think that this is for those who believe in Jesus not those who dont and are clearly posting just to start trouble. Who is a Christian here and believes in Jesus Christ? not Who is or isnt a Christian, feel free to start trouble

 

The analogy was a bit overboard. How about Who here loves the East Coast? and I post "The East Coast is a poorly governed part of the US and was only thrown together for political reasons. It's the same thing, obviously I'm looking for a fight if I post that.

 

Textbook trolling.

 

Let me clarify once again. I dont take the Bible as the Erroneous Word of God. I do believe in Jesus although my view of Him is a bit different than most. I'm not aggrevated that you think the Bible is hogwash. I'm aggrevated because you come in here saying that just for shits and giggles. You're an idiot. An insulting, childish idiot. There are ways of doing things and I think you just did it that way to start some shit.

Wow. That's quite a violent reaction. I don't believe anyone ever called you names or insulted you. The man just stated his opinion about the Bible. Had this been a Christian forum, I would agree that it was trolling, but it's not. Why such a reaction?

Clearly you are not sorry because you came into a topic called Who is a Christian here and believes in JESUS CHRIST but yet you basically assault the following of Jesus. Dont go and say something disrespectful and then try to cover it up with " sorry if that offends".

 

Basically you stepped into a Rape Victim Therapy session and said " It's karma that got you raped-sorry if that offends."

Since I said that I pretty much felt the same way, I will apologize if you were offended by it. Honestly though, if you said you thought that Buddhism was a load of bollocks it wouldn't bother me at all.

The bible seems to be a pretty poorly thrown- together assembly of disparate teachings stemming from many cultures ... Ur to Judea and then added to by Emperor Constantines' minions to create a religion to hold together his empire...

 

I do not see a strong link between the teachings of the Rabbi Jesus- now known as The Christ and the Bible's portrayal of those teachings - It seems to me that Gnostic teachings may be actually closer to the words uttered by Jesus as he strove to rid Judea of the Roman influences... And I believe him to have beeen heavily influenced by Buddhism ( 500 years old in his day), as well as a most profound adherence to Judaic laws...

 

But perhaps I'm just too into reading many sources that refute the bible as anything worth following - sorry if that offends-

My feelings are pretty much the same, and likely for the same reason.

I read a book by Thomas Merton once. Can't remember what it was called. It seemed to me that he and those in his order of contemplative monks saw Jesus and Christianity in quite a different light than the stereotypical fundamentalist Bible thumper. Merton was a Franciscan monk if I recall. Respect.

I love the symbol. To me it's a simple and effective representation of life's extremes with peace and harmony being in the middle. The middle way. Stay in the middle of the circle. I use it as a reminder.

LOL, are you a lawyer.

I think better to not talk so much and practice more.

I know nothing.

Useful everyday psychology aside, isn't this essentially the same question as why does maya exist and where does it come from?

The Sutras that really helped me put things into perspective : Shurangama Sutra, Diamond Sutra, 6th Patriarch's Diamond Platform Sutra, Buddha Speaks Amitabha Sutra, Liao Fan's Four Lessons, Confucius' Di Zi Gui.

 

Many more, but these really helped to put things into perspective...

I love the Platform Sutra! Just re-read it again the other day. Coincidentally, I started studying the Diamond Sutra again a few nights ago too. I seem to have to take it one thought at a time.

Another eloquent and thoughtful post my friend. I too am grateful for finding Tao Bums. I love the diversity. It's thought provoking.

When you look at a rose, what do you see? Just a rose?

Or, do you see the sun, the wind and the rain. Do you see the earth, cow shit, dog piss, and a bumble bee? The rose is all of these things and more. It is everything, as you are. But only when you can see that the rose is not a rose, can you truely call it a rose.

That's the illusion. We look at a rose with our preconceived notion of flower and rose, and fail to see everything that it is.

One day when the Buddha was addressing the assembly, without a word he held up a flower. Mahakasyapa smiled. He got it.

Sorry for another classic Buddhist example. It's just where my head goes.

So why does the world (maya) exists? You just say accept it, it just exists? That's exactly what I am going to do,

if I stop asking this question to myself. But I do not think is real, everything which comes and goes is not real in a sense. Are you your body? Only things which everylast are real, like the eternal self.

Are you not really just asking the question of the ages now, the one that every religion has tried to answer?

One day it yust happend !! Im still stuck with it now dragging my spiritual path with me everywhere i go. Sometimes i drop it and cant find it anymore and sometimes it drops me and again i cant find it anymore but at the end we always come back togheter whatever we do

 

Im trying to follow it most often but sometimes it goes to quickly, one of those moments i loose it again mostly.

 

Its not bad loosing your spiritual path, many people get frustrated but it has no use .. loosing is part of it and makes you even happier when you find it again

 

I think it must have to do something with pastlife issues but i wasnt there so how would i know. Well i was there but i cant remember like leaving one night to a bar around the corner and waking up on the other side of the country not knowing what happend and how you got there. There are hints yeh but pretty vague.

 

When i look deep down inside and think way back i know its always been there. The fundamentals, the bricks, the core, the essence is there and being build upon whole that time.

 

Sometimes you dont see it yourself but then suddenly ping .. something or someone reminds you .. and you fall right back to that essence you thought dissapeared long time ago.

 

Enough rambling for today, enjoy your day, enjoy your life, enjoy your path and dont worry about why, when, where and who.

 

Cheers !

I love it!

Thanks for your answers guys!

All good questions! To my understanding, the beginning of karma is back to "free will", and our "abuse" of it. Of course, all of that is based on ignorance, so back to the original question in a circle.

Hey Bruce,

 

I don't think we should let the minor problem of it being unanswerable stop us trying to answer it!

 

Good ol' Buddha is rooting for us and we have to keep trying.

 

If free will is the answer then are we saying - we have free will in order we can be ignorant? In which case its the same question ... WHY!!!!

So, an hour of zazen later and a couple of cups of tea, an answer came to me! From a Buddhist point of view, unless you're enlightened you have ignorance or illusion, whatever you want to call it. If you are born out of dependent origination, ie you don't choose to be born because you're not a Boddhisatva (enlightened to a degree), you have ignorance. Why? Karma! Only the karmic imprints are what keeps you in the cycle of birth and death anyway. So we have ignorance due to inherited karma. Do away with past karma and no more ignorance; no more illusion. Hmmm, this line of reason is making me rethink my recent agnostisism toward rebirth.

Does that make sense? It's after 0200 here now. I'm going to bed.

I agree, and thank Zeus!

 

(We'll save the question of Buddha's concepts of 'luck' until another time eh? )

LOL ok

Yep. It's a good question, but like someone said above, it's probably unanswerable. Maybe we just have to go with the obvious: it exists, and there are spiritual paths that address it.

You know, we're the lucky ones. At least we've stopped long enough in our confused lives to recognize it and to want to do something about it. I bet most never give it more than a fleeting thought.

No need to resist! Are you saying that remembering this original face would remove my current state of conditioning?

That's the theory mate. I'm still looking for mine.

That is a great definition of maya! But it doesn't give the reason for it... why is this conditioning there in the first place?

What was your original face before you were born?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I dunno, 'cause we're human?

My take instead of repeating the 4 Noble Truths and all those details (which I'd just have to look up myself, lol).

What we see in any given moment is based on our perception, not what's really there. Our perception is based on our conditioning. That's what makes the illusion. Take away the conditioning and all our preconceived notions and we see what really is.

There's an old Zen saying: Before practicing, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers. After some practice, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no longer rivers. Only after you've seen that they aren't can you say that mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers.

Understand?

Well predictably, I like the Buddhist explaination of it. Good 'ol ignorance. Pretty much the same as Maya, just called Mara. No need for me to explain it. I think 'ol Buddha did a pretty good job.

'Why should there be ignorance at all?'

 

That is such a great question.

Why should there be poverty, war, hatred, and all the other ills of the world? Too bad we're not all Buddhas, eh. So long as there are humans we'll have these things.

lol

 

Plus it provides you with the stuff too. How's that for value, maya is underrated.

A very sincere and honest answer Scotty. Thanks!

This thread reminds me of this famous quote;

 

Buddah might not have been a Christian, but Jesus would have made a good Buddhist.