EagleShen

What you can change is your relationship to your past and your relationship to your negative experiences/emotions, and that's part of the essence of the inner smile IMO. Turning a negative experience into a positive part of who you are now has real magic in it. Look at the stories of most great people and they will have had some pretty tough experiences, yet they managed to make powerful contributions, and their struggles are often celebrated as a part of who they are. And by changing our relationship to our past, we change our experience of now, and therefore our future.

I had the first one recommended to me by someone who really knew his Feng Shui stuff, i bought it and have explored it a little but not in depth (one day...), it has a really solid foundation in the underlying principles and is very clear and systematic.

Just for the record, if i remember correctly from Hua-Ching Ni's version (which i love, and this thread has inspired me to dig it out and read it again), he states his version is an oral tradition that's been passed down in his family. Also re the very different writing in regards to the Tao De Ching, this was actually written by Laotzu (whether a singular or collective person), whereas the Hua Hu Ching is a third person's recollection of a conversation/teaching. As an example, I'm sure if we had something that Jesus had actually written, it would be very different in many respects to the third person perspectives on what he said that we have now. It is quite likely that this text did spend a long time, centuries most likely, as an oral tradition before ever being written down, and thus would likely be influenced over time. Also Hua-Ching Ni says that the book was mostly stamped out of existence (hence being preserved as an oral tradition in his family) as the original was framed as a dialogue between Lao Tzu and 'the prince'. Apparently Buddhists took exception to this as they thought that the Taoists were implying that Lao Tzu had been the Buddha's (ie the prince) teacher.

gj551, i've been 'in retention' for a couple of weeks now, i can't say i'll be trying to retain for 100 days as i simply listen to my body and impulses and do my best to distinguish the source of my desire, which sometimes includes ejaculation - but i'll be with you for some or possibly all of the time at least. I'd encourage you to use the time to understand the desire to ejaculate, it is a beautiful desire, but do not let it master you by fighting it, instead love that desire and dance with it and free yourself from a binary relationship with it. I mentioned it earlier, but testicle massage night and morning with deep slow belly breathing does wonders for curbing nocturnal emissions.

Awesome comment Kate! David, i've learnt heaps from studying Mantak Chia's books and have done workshops with some of his students. Invaluable. That said, i've found his stuff a bit like a vitamin pill, it's got the essential goodness but is missing some of the fibre that actually makes it digestible. Personally i find him too Yang in his approach and practices, to much focus on accumulating energy and getting higher, and not enough yin practices and not enough Taoist philosophy - i think it's essential to start to think differently, not just 'do the practices'. That said, there is this stuff in his books, it's just not front and centre. The workshops i've done have been very ungrounding. I'm someone used to some pretty intense energy practices and it took me about a week to get grounded and balanced after the last HT workshop i did, which was a Fusion 1 & 2 workshop. Everyone is different and needs different things. I'd say take it easy, the basic practices you learn have soooo much depth in them, i've often discovered that advanced practices make me realise how amazing the basic practices are. Good, luck, have fun!

Thanks RyanO, Couldn't agree more, you need to 'do something' with the energy, i've always found i need to do a lot more physical practice during periods of retention, otherwise it all gets a bit loopy. I think i'll give Earth Love practice a go, sounds great. We are earth and heaven making love, perfect vehicles for the cosmic alchemy. Re your second post, we are here, that is as it is, we resist being here, that is as it is, there is nothing which is not Tao, even determined resistance to Tao is the Tao.

This thread has been turning over in my mind, rather than being 'stripped' of your magic, think of it more like being forcibly moved from your 'magic' being subconscious to conscious, ie learning the true skill of your natural talents. It helps me

It's a common misconception that their calendar ends on 2012, it doesn't, it's simply the end of a large cycle and hence much of the symbology they were concerned with was relevant to this cycle. Witch, don't know if this will be of any assistance, but it might, and my understanding is still very incomplete, but here's my take on a not dissimilar journey i've been in: I've been getting into hermetic and 'western magical' practices the last couple of years and have had a very strong connection with Thoth/Hermes/Mercury. One of the consequences of this is that i've been forced to be less dreamy myself and to be a lot more practical, my emotional life particularly has been intensely challenging and i've fallen prey to many of the attachments i'd criticised in others. Additionally, i've been having to learn to apply my spiritual knowledge to be able to get anything done in the material world, something i'd always been a bit cynical of and my 'bliss' experiences have certainly become more subdued. Initially this confused me, but as i've gone deeper it's become more obvious to me that critical to Thoth/Hermes is the concept of 'as above, so below, and as below, so above'. Getting a grip on this crazy thing most people call reality, and being able to steer our own course in it, is the foundation of being able to do the same in the higher realms. Most people see Thoth/Hermes as a knowledge giver, yet i also think he/it is somewhat of a gatekeeper also, in that once you reach a certain level of accomplishment/knowledge, you will be challenged to really master the material and emotional realms (ie Malkuth and Yesod if you use the tree of life) before going further, usually by being thrown into them and even being stripped of your 'magic' through this trial. This theme arises often enough in mythology for a very good reason. My intuition is that this is a compassionate act, make it through this trial and the door to a deeper level of wisdom is open.

Thanks Jonah, great write up! And no probs Cat.

Hagar makes some good points. Part of what gets missed in 'the retention debate' is that what's more important than whether you retain or not is whether you are acting from a place of 'natural arising'. Most men ejaculate as they have an unconscious desire to ejaculate (and the myriad reasons why i won't go into). They are not sensitive to and conscious of what their bodies need, it's like an addiction. Practising retention is invaluable to retrain ourselves, to lose the ejaculation addiction, to become sensitive to our subtle way, but is it really any better if we are attached to retention? It can easily become more about control (and yes i spent some time in this category) and less about being in harmony with what is naturally arising. And surely this state of 'naturally arising' is what we're all practising to achieve? The few times internal orgasm has arisen naturally within, without any effort on my behalf, has been a remarkable experience, both during and after. Likewise, sex with a woman who can move energy and is engaging with you on a similar level of consciousness can totally transform the experience of ejaculation, there is an alchemy that can occur where you get more than you give.

Hey gj551, You mention doing the microcosmic, are you also doing testicle massage and belly breathing? These two are essential to retention IMO.

I'm keen to learn Chen Taijiquan soon, and would be curious if anyone can recommend a teacher in Melbourne? I've got a good feeling about Peter Wu (www.peterwutaichi.com/, and am curious if anyone has studied with him, or if anyone has studied with anyone else you could recommend? Don't know how many people from here hang around on this forum, but thought it worth asking!

Thanks Trogdorf, I had seen the website, it's not the most convenient place and it's not Chen, but i might go and check him out. Jared.

Hey thanks for the info, I reckon i'll purchase the video when cash flow allows, i'd love to see another perspective on this form. Took me a while to find it as i'm outside the USA (your link is to some Amazon TV thing only available in the US), here's the link for anyone outside the US wishing to buy: Wu Ji Gong Re the precision, I've only learnt it from Michael's videos, and my experience has been quite profound at times (no immortals though), so i'm now going to revise and see if some added precision ramps it up!

Science, like the I-Ching, has everything to do with the kind of questions you ask and the assumptions you frame your reality in. The great thing about the I Ching is that it often shifts my frame of reference in regards to a problem. At times a 'random' reading expands my thinking on a current or desire in my life and it really doesn't matter whether the reading was 'accurate', the wisdom contained and the trying to fit my problem into a new framework has shifted my perspective. I doubt you could do that with a Physics text book. Re the universe, we are at one with it, even our refusal to see our oneness is at oneness with it, hence even blind divination can be profoundly effective. But i take Pietros point, if you really want to use it with masterful certainty, you probably do need to at least glimpse the One, and have had a bloody good repeated read.

Hi Cat, about a quarter of the book goes into the history and esoteric background, including some info on Mater Zhu Hui who taught it to both Michael and the Robbos, and also relates the form to the Ba Gua (8 trigrams) and five element theory. There is also some interesting stuff on intention, and the forms effect on the pituitary and pineal glands. I pity anyone actually trying to learn the form from the book though!

It's a great practice, i can particularly recommend doing it after a session of standing meditation. The DVD gives pretty clear instruction, the quality is OK but not great. The quality of the Audio CD's are, as suggested, woeful, not only is it in mono but no one who has even a vague idea about audio production has been near it, the volume varies from very quiet to ear drum splitting loud during some of the exercises. It does have some valuable info in it, but is a trial to get through. Good to hear positive things about the training, i'd contemplated coming to the US to do the training but after the audio experience i was a little jaded. The Rubbo ebook is outstanding, there are some differences in the form, but it has some really good info in it. If i lived in the US i'd do their course.

The best thing about Ni's book is actually his explanation of the I Ching at the start, it's really quite thorough. With his translations, i always get the feeling he is trying to say too much, not enough use of 'poetry'. I've only a small experience with Cleary's Taoist translation, but have had some very profound readings with it, more so than with Wilhelm which was great as an introduction, but it never felt to me like it 'had' the deeper more subtle aspects - but that could have reflected my more limited understanding at the time. I really crave a translation that goes back to first principles, by this i mean clearly explaining the meaning of the lines, of the trigrams, etc rather than just interpreting the whole hexagram. Any suggestions?

Thanks, have been curious about checking out some more Nei Kung and these resources look great.

I did a little study with Professor Wong here in Australia, he'd tell these kind of things by just looking at someone... it's weird having someone see through you. I guess that's the next level? Interesting to note that pulse diagnosis used to be a part of the western tradition, it was one of the primary diagnosis techniques in ancient Greece apparently.

Re the chakras, i agree somewhat with your description of them, but they are energy centers, just very different from the dan tiens, and yes some daoist systems do use them, they are 'collection points' for the organ chi/emotions etc, which makes a lot of sense to me. Re yogic samadhi, yes many traditions are focussed on leaving the body, but if you go back far enough there is not this emphasis, check out the 18 Siddha Tradition (18 practitioners that achieved the golden light body and physical immortality), best know practitioner being Babaji Nagaraj, who is reported to be still alive today (1800 years old). Taking your body with you is an accepted practice in Tibetan Buddhism and the more tantric practices. Doing both is great, i'd recommend focussing on learning one first, it can really help get the subtler transmission of it - after doing tai chi for 8 years everyday yoga was amazing i can tell you, a lot better than when i'd done it 8 years beforehand.

Wow, this is awesome, thank you so much! Deep gratitude for such profound wisdom.

Apologies if you've already considered these things Eviander, your question has prompted me to think about what i would advise someone, it's an interesting consideration (i have practiced tantra yoga, qi gong and tai chi all in some depth). (BTW people may answer a bit more helpfully if you gave some of your pros and cons or thoughts about the subject) My first question to you would be, which one inspires your imagination more: being a tai chi master or a yogi? If it's both, then what if you could only pick one? IMO it's important to have your imagination engaged with your practice, it really helps with practising on those days when you really struggle to fit it in. As an aside, what is your personality like? Tai Chi takes a lot of patience and perseverance, so IMO you need these qualities or need to be clear in your desire to cultivate them to go this path. If you are impatient or very temperamental, perhaps yoga or Dao Yin might be good initially. Some traditional tai chi schools don't teach tai chi until you reach a certain level of Kung Fu or are a certain age (you needed to be 25+ to learn it at my school - this was due to physical and personality development) The second would be: do you have a teacher or a community in your area you feel a resonance with? Live instruction from a good (preferably great) teacher you respect will do more for your development than any considerations of choice between the two. A community helps cultivation immensely, especially as you are learning (eg of it's importance, spiritual community is one of the 3 Buddhist refuges). Lastly, not so much a question as a consideration is the form/school/integrity of the practice. There is a lot of yoga and a fair bit of tai chi out there that is not geared towards cultivation at the higher levels. Ask your teacher questions regarding your intent for cultivation and see what response you get.