EagleShen

Any suggestions on a better book to use (for those without access to a direct teacher)?

Retention is a bit of a favourite topic around here and we all have our favourite hobby horses about the whole thing, so apologies for not actually answering you. Re the retention, you can retain a measure of energy by absorbing it through the bladder, the amount is up to debate, and really depends on whether you're consciously drawing energy into the body and circulating. Re the discomfort, that's fairly normal, four days is a little long, i'd advise ejaculating if you've not done so already, and perhaps you did bruise the area if you pressed too hard - most guys are a bit numb on this part of the body so you can easily press harder than is good for you. Ideally if you insist on using it, you should be pressing only hard enough to help you control ejaculation, which, like a set of training wheels, should become lighter and lighter. But re the cautions mentioned, it's better to find other methods. Just deeply breathing will totally change your experience of sex.

Thanks Little1, i like that. Seth, there is a variant on the Chia version i learnt where you take the colour/energy of the organ you are meditating on to nurture the next one, it ramps it up a bit, but i get you're looking for something different. Re the HT Fusion stuff, i found it extremely Yang and not all to my liking, i'd be interested in a more yin approach to this kind of concentration of elixir.

It's interesting how the practice flows, i struggled for years to do a regular practice, then started tai chi everyday and eventually ended up doing about 2 hours everyday of tai chi, kung fu and meditation. However, I'm very busy at the moment and only get to do about half an hour concentrated practice, it feels so rushed! And yet most people i engage with think that's a lot/enough etc. What i am doing is about 1/4 an hour of Dao Yin and 1/4 of LDT or microcosmic meditation plus a little Kriya yoga. Sometimes i do some tai chi, standing or Nei Gung (tendon wrapping mostly) other times in the day. The gift of this busyness tho is becoming more aware of my breathing and body and energy during the day while doing everyday things, if I added up the amount of time i spend 'in awareness' it's probably not so different to before i got so busy!

I came across Chia's stuff early on, many years ago, did a lot of external locking, and gave myself a goodly haemorrhoid. It can be good to get a sense of what's possible, but i'd agree with Sloppy Zhang, relax! IMO far more important that what you do in sex is what you do in your life otherwise. If you are consciously breathing and circulating your energy and have a good practice to transform the Yin Ching (the unaroused sexual energy), then the energy has somewhere to go: you need to open the subtle energy channels and soft tissue so that the internal transformation can take place with the hotter energy. Also, Chia (and a lot of others giving advice on this stuff) say get to 90% or as close as you can, then draw in the energy. Usually by then it's way late, unless you're highly proficient i think the energy is way to hot and will only go straight to the head if you're lucky. Get to about 60% and relax, see what happens, see what you feel. I've had the most incredible full body orgasms without ejaculation arise naturally, and sometimes quite subtly, by doing this - with no side effects. It all comes down to self love.

That's the question rain, how would one? I sometimes think in reality there are at least 6 billion plus ways of seeing it ALL.

Is the ego really the river? I was talking with a friend of mine on the weekend, and he brought up the notion that the ego isn't actually a 'thing', and that our word for it is very deceptive - being so noun like. This led us to discuss the nature of the ego being more like a series of self-defining(/collection of related) processes that shape our perception of ourselves as having an inner as separate from an outer. Which is at times a useful function for getting around in the material world. So if there is some truth in this, the ego would be more like the banks of the river, shaping the flow from source to end, and declaring itself to be the river, and the spiritual quest would be to see the banks, the sky, the river bottom, the water, the fish, etc as all part of the beautiful process of self-existence.

Oh and no i've not heard of it, would be cool though, perhaps a bit like ballroom dancing?

It's not so much the sharing as the intent and awareness that's important.

Hey Non, i'd have not recommeded it if that's all it was, they actually give a fair bit of stick to the 'pick up' industry. They have some amazing processes for getting guys to see the stuff their not seeing and for simply accepting their full selves - hence the authentic. And yeah they do market themselves in 'gender relation' terms, but it's actually not what it's about, that's just the outcome that most people are interested in. Marketing, sigh. Anyway, just a suggestion. Mostly though, find some stuff to get into your body, it's a gold mine of goodness.

Hey Creation, No probs, glad it was helpful. Welcome to PM me if you want to yarn further. Re the image, no, i don't know who did it, would love to though. And Rainbow_Vein, Great quote, thank you. Reminds me of something a friend of mine said some time ago: 'The Demons holding you back, are just Angels trying to help you - it's all a matter of how you look at it'.

Wow, just read all 4 pages and many thoughts arising, i love thinking about this kind of thing, some great posts, so thank you! Lately i've been taking the attitude that anything i can possibly conceive of is only, at best, a 'map' of what is actually going on, as my perception is operating within a 4D framework - and as far as i can make out 'reality' is at least 11D - and this conception because i can conceive of it is likely only a very distorted reflection of the actual thing. It's like only having the shadow that something casts to be able to understand that which is causing the shadow. Hence saying that there is a difference between the inner and outer (as this often accords to our experience/perceptions) and saying that there is no difference between the inner and outer (as this often accords to our experience/perceptions) may not be in any way contradictory statements - they may only appear contradictory from our limited perception. I've become quite suspect of either/or statements these days. So re the Buddhist illusion thing, sure it's all an illusion, but as i can perceive it is not an illusion, it isn't an illusion. Both are true. Possibly the problem is in understanding what was trying to be communicated by using the word illusion. It's like trying to explain a cloud to someone who hasn't seen one, it's very difficult and they probably won't 'get it', but once you've both seen one you can use the word quite easily and you have a shared understanding to refer to - the word itself contains nothing. Our Western way of thinking is very... hmmm... logical exclusive, very either/or, i think as a culture we find it difficult to embrace contradiction, just because two things appear contradictory doesn't mean there is a problem. Possibly quite the opposite. Going back to the Jesus quote from page 1, i suspect there are whole dimensions of meaning in the word 'make' (as in make the inner like the outer, etc...) that include both acceptance and doing.

Hey Creation/Tyler, That's a tricky thing to do, it's been such a gradual process, but i'll give it a go (beautiful avatar by the way, i had her on my desktop for a while). Probably the two biggest turning points in my relationship to it were first accepting it in myself (and meditating on it, daring to go deeper and deeper into my experience, rather than away from it as i'd been doing), and the second was in appreciating what it had given me and how totally awesome it is to be able to perceive the world so sensitively. Put poetically, you have a gift that is a two edged sword: neglected it's a curse, learn to wield it and it will be a powerful ally (why do i suddenly want to say 'your webel fwiends cannot help you now...'?). The first bit was clearing my negative emotions from it, but i found that they just kept sneaking back in, or i kept finding subtler layers of my own negative experience, or having more experiences that exposed my vulnerability. So from acceptance i've gotten into appreciation, looking deeply at what it's actually given me. My bet is that, like me, you'll actually find its a lot. A big shift occurred for me recently as i've been going beyond just appreciation and into constructing a positive framework around being intensely sensitive. A big help on that side of things has been some Jungian archetype stuff i've been getting into - creating my personal mythology, and drawing inspiration from myths and history. Do you have any idea how many immensely sensitive people have made amazing contributions to the world? An awesome book on this stuff, if you're a guy, is one called King Warrior Magician Lover, totally rocked my world, still is. Not sure if there's a female equivalent. Really interesting what markern has said, this is the kind of thing i'm talking about, take this and go hell yeah, i've got genius within me, just a matter of learning how to drive it. IMO everyone is actually really sensitive, it's what you do with the information that counts. Most people block it out, and will probably never find out how to remove that block. Some people drown. Some people learn to make it a shinning light. It's all a matter of practice, perspective and intent. Hmm, hope that's vaguely helpful.

Hey Non, i can sympathise, i felt pretty much exactly the same when i was a teenager (no idea how old you are now) due to a hyper sensitivity to the world that i'm turning from a weakness into a strength. It's totally possible to change your entire experience of yourself - i took a long slow road, in retrospect i see that i could have let a whole bunch of stuff drop a lot earlier if i'd sought some help. The practice that made the biggest difference for me was doing tai chi, it really got me out of my head and into my body and sorted out my structural issues. IMO something physical would probably be better for you, and lots of inner smiling, internal alchemy needs self love to really work. A question or two, if you had the choice between doing something totally outside of your comfort zone or staying in this negative loop forever what would you do? What would you be willing to risk to experience self love? And a suggestion outside of the 'taoist' loop, there's a program in California called the Authentic Man Program, they have DVDs if that's not in your locality, they do some amazing work helping guys with exactly this kind of stuff.

Thanks bob3, big Monkey King fan... can recommend to anyone to actually read the book!

Great Post, thanks for sharing, a great commentary on how we get hypnotised by our own egos. Personally i think Siddhis are attainable, but only really in an individual totally 'surrendered' to the subtlest Will. I came across a Buddhist discussion of Siddhis at one point (i can't seem to find it, thought i'd bookmarked it...) and they discussed internal and external Siddhis, the external Siddhis being what most people refer to as powers, and that these were dead ends in terms of true realisation. The internal Siddhis were things such as concentration, focus, faith, discrimination, etc., and that seeking these Siddhis lead one to realisation. I really like this approach. If i do find the link i'll post it.

Hey Creation, i've not studied Bruce's stuff, but in terms of learning to still the mind there are two techniques i've found really helpful in developing presence. One is simply curiosity, be curious about what you're mind and body are doing rather than trying to ignore them or see them as something that is pulling you off centre. There is nothing which is not the Tao. Watch any thing that happens with unattached curiosity, follow that which is persistent, our curiosity can be a great gateway to staying conscious. The other is hunting thoughts. Like a cat watching at a mouse hole, watch with all of your attention, with all of your focus for the next thought to emerge from your mind. I know many people who've found their first experience of stillness in their mind with this one. When a thought does arise, eagerly leap on it, digest it (letting it pass through), await the next one. That said, it's usually people's 'emotional bodies' that cause the most distraction IMO, so it is necessary to dissolve emotional blockages to get really present.

Neiye, i occasioinally do a good stint of ZZ and then to the Primordial, it really is an amazing combination.

Interesting, this meditation has some similarities to parts of the lesser banishing ritual pentagram that is common in modern Magick systems. Re the whole protection and psychic attack thing, the best defence is self awareness rather than focusing on shielding yourself. An 'attack' is also an opportunity to see ourselves more deeply, to understand what within us has left us vulnerable to such an attack, and to thus bring a subtler, deeper level of awareness to our experience of the world.

One of my teachers once told me that you if you accumulated 1000 hours trying to do Ketchari Mudra, ie reaching as far back with the tongue as you can, you would achieve it. May have been a flippant comment, hard to tell.

Hi Bums, I've recently started studying Dao Yin (or daoyin or Dao In), and am really enjoying the practice. I'd be really curious to hear from anyone else who's done any form of Dao Yin in depth about your experiences and perspectives on it as a cultivation practice. The form i've been doing is a Dragon Gate family lineage, and while it's not been as strong physically as i'm used to, which could just be because i'm still fairly new to the practice, my main benefit so far has been an opening of my lower dan tien and an ability to drop deeply and easily into meditation beyond anything i've experienced before. Look forward to some good sharing of experiences (i hope)

Thanks Hagar, re the LDT, yeah there's a strong emphasis on the LDT as foundation, i'd done practices to activate it before, but the Dao Yin has opened a whole new depth. We are perhaps a geometry of 'mirrors' existing on various planes. Thanks Mat, I could imagine him saying that, he has such an open and joy filled heart himself, a real softness i've only found so far in Taoist teachers who don't use the more Yang cultivation methods - that said the only 'masters' i've spent time with have been fans of a more Yin approach to internal alchemy. My previous teacher, Prof Lun Wong, had a similar presence to Mater Tao, and although he didn't strictly teach Dao Yin, all is 'Dao' practices were very soft, very little forcing. Would it be fair to say that a feature of Dao Yin is the balancing of the whole body and opening of channels so that the inner alchemy will naturally arise in harmony with the gentle urgings of the will?

Sloppy Zhang, my interest was first stimulated by Hua Ching Ni - i saw a book on Dao Yin (he calls it Dao In) in the bookstore, i bought it and tried on a off some of the practices. I never really pursued the practices with rigour, but it sat in the back of my mind as something i'd really like to do, and something i'd really like to find a teacher for. Part of my interest was that he explains it as one of the original practices of the 'ancient achieved ones', a precursor to Tai Chi. I always meant to get around to getting the video he has of the forms too. Then i came across a teacher here in Melbourne http://www.daoyintherapy.com.au not too far from where i live, so i've started studying with him. Re other resources, not really sure, would love to hear of any, i'll pass them on if i find any. Interesting perspective though, i guess it's part of what i'm curious about, how far can it take me, and what are people's experiences with it? The guy i'm studying with, Master Tao, it's his primary practice and he is very highly achieved as far as i can tell from my humble perspective. See my post here, i did a bit of a review of my first workshop with him: Dragon Gate Dao Yin Chi Gong - totally awesome! . The alchemy stuff is there, but there is very a Yin approach to it (compared to Mantak, for example, who's approach i would classify as a more Yang approach). What is better? Yang is probably faster as that is the nature of Yang, but is it deeper? There's a lot more than just sitting practices, and a lot more than just physical practices. All of the gong's (physical practices, or asanas if you like) so far are dynamic, ie they involve some kind of movement, they are not static postures. There are sitting one's, standing one's and lying one's. Master Tao has given me gongs to work specifically on my lower back, stomach and neck. As far as i understand it, Dao Yin is in someways a precursor to what we now understand as Chinese medicine - medical practitioners would prescribe a series of gongs to work on a particular part of the body to fix ailments. There are meditation practices as well in both Hua Ching Ni stuff and Dragon Gate, and these have been some of the most awesome meditation practices i've come across. You could say the physical side of Dao Yin is a prepares a soft supple container for the internal alchemy. There is really deep softness to the internal alchemy approach. I guess my impression so far is that it is a very Yin approach to internal alchemy (which really appeals to me), and lot of the more modern developments that grew out of it have a bit more Yang to them. BUT, i've only done one workshop and read one book so far, so it's still pretty new to me and i could well pop up in a month or two and say everything i've written here is rubbish, but it's where i'm at with it now Would still love to hear from anyone who's been practising it for some length of time.

No, was more pointing to your statement as inspiration, logical flow and all