EagleShen

IMO be very careful using his books, it's really easy to get a lot of energy stuck in the head and/or cause blockages in the perineum with his approach, especially in regard to sexual cultivation.

His approach is very Yang, and doesn't have anywhere enough of the foundational Yin aspect of daoist practice. There's a lot of doing and moving Qi rather than being and allowing Qi. Perhaps it's different learning from him.

I had a lot of problems learning his stuff, the main one being a lot of energy stuck in my head - it did inspire me to spend 7 years doing martial arts to egt grounded tho. I've worked with a number of guys who have had similar problems.

If you do dealt want to do his stuff, learn some good taoist meditation too. Some martial arts practice wouldnt hurt either.

The energy exchange for me is not parasitic but symbiotic, the tree gets my waste energy that is causing problems, in return I get the trees energy that heals and nourishes. The tree uses sunlight to transform my waste energy back into healing energy.

 

 

The way I see it trees eat our waste, we breath out CO2, which they use like we do oxygen. We pee out ammonia which is nitrogen rich they use like fertilizer. Everything that is waste to us, is nutrition to them.

 

 

They take sunlight and use this energy to transform our waste back into food and medicine.

 

Trees are the ultimate Qigong masters, they take yin and yang energy and fuse them together effortlessly.

 

We think we are so advanced but we could not exist were it not for plants and trees absorbing sunlight and turning dirt into food for us.

Well said.

We turn flowers into poo, and the earth turns poo into flowers, it's all perfect really .

Learnt a Tree QiGong practice as a part of Master Tao's Dragon Gate Dao Yin QiGong, you can work with different trees to treat/heal different conditions in the body. It's more like sharing energy with the tree rather than draining it.

Yes, trees are amazing

Oh got all excited! Good motivation to revisit learning Mandarin .

Thanks for the review Immortal_Sister, I'm wondering how your further studies have gone?

I've been considering getting the book and DVD of the women's practices for my lover, she's interested in finding out more about women's QiGong practices, she's already done a fair bit of women's yoga and QiGong (she's a TCM practitioner too) but is looking to expand her knowledge beyond the teachers she's had over the last 2 years.

After reading your review I'm inclined to get it for her.

I love it when Taobum members put up reviews of teachers work on here, super helpful.

All of my main Taoist teachers have emphasised the importance of 'living a normal life'. They also have an attitude of balance, ie it's important to spend time in retreat and it's important to bring it back into the world.

As i understand this passage, it'd be referring to the mixing of the male and female pre-orgasmic/ejaculation secretions, and the ability of both partners to be able to then absorb this combined essence into their bodies.

I've been wondering if a person's attitude to desire comes down to basic assumptions in their outlook on life.

If you believe you were born here to learn to escape, then all attachment and desires are necessarily to be transcended through moving away from them.

If you believe you were born here to bring bridge/fuse heaven and earth, then all attachment and desires are necessarily to be transformed through moving towards them.

A thought

This rings in me like an elucidation of the first chapter of the Tao Te Ching, may have to track this one down as well!

(ed note: nice use of fashionably deci belle, i got all inspired and thought i'd go for broke and use 'elucidation')

Totally agree.

There is what i refer to as an 'effective philosophy'.

The effective philosophy of the yang approach of 'forcing' is that the body does not naturally cultivate, you have to make it. The effective philosophy of the Yin approach is the the body naturally cultivates, you just have to untrain what's in the way.

It's a far less perilous approach to err on the side of Yin, and to use Yang sparingly when it's most effective.

 

Taoism proper is about unification of consciousness, which results in a firm belief that some cake for everyone is good, too much cake for some and too little or none for others is bad, too much cake for you personally will give you indigestion, no cake at all for you personally will give you hunger pangs... A unified, whole, unmolested consciousness (referred to as the state of a "real human," "man/woman of tao," "holy sage," "realized human" and, occasionally, jun zi ) has no problem coping with these situations as they arise. None of them is elevated to the status of an absolute, an ideal. If you are told that no one should want any cake ever for any purposes under any circumstances in order to accomplish whatever, that's not taoism. Taoism is situationally flexible. If I want cake, it will look into why, and how much, and where and how I intend to get it, and when I plan to stop, and what it's made of, and how much I need it and how much I deserve it and so on... rather than invalidate my desire automatically. Cake, of course, stands for "any and all situations of the process of living" here.

This

This discussion reminds me of a famous painting with Confucius, Buddha and Lao Tzu in it that attempts to demonstrate the difference between the approaches. The 3 sages are all sampling out of a large cauldron labelled 'life' (or something). Confucius looks like he's just tasted the most sour thing you could imagine, and Buddha the most bitter thing ever. Lao Tzu, however, looks like he's just tasted the sweetest nectar.

Additionally, i'm not entirely convinced the detachment is a particularly good translation, most people tend to think this means you don't feel desire, where as I understand the whole concept more as 'it doesn't rule you', ie you can still feel it, and in fact you could argue that only one who is detached from desire can actually fully experience desire.

This is part of the reason i enjoy Daoism so much, as there is nothing which is not the Dao - and at the same time at the heart of mastering the mind is not being ruled by the 'ten thousand things' (including the 5 senses).

I think someone here said that the chinese character translated as "packing" was actually closer to "making space for more". It might have been from that book tho. Sorry i can't recall precisely.

I like that, "making space for more", still there are Yin and Yang ways to do this, but this translation has at least a more neutral connotation than packing. Thanks.

Re packing and non-packing, it's a case of Yin and Yang practice IMO.

The packing is a Yang approach, pushing energy into the LDT. The Yin approach is allowing the LDT to deepen so that it naturally stores more. Both methods would be employed in some training regimes.

Many leap straight for the Yang approach in the quest for results or internal power, and miss the deep wisdom of Yin cultivation.

 

 

Zhi is one of the Five Lesser Shens that together comprise the Greater Shen. (Hun, Po, Heart Shen, Yi, Zhi.) Zhi is a co-creator of the Kidneys. In Western terms, it has much to do with the pineal-hypothalamus-pituitary axis, and psychologically with "willpower," "timing," time-sensitive decision-making, light-darkness interactions, configuration of the stars and all things astrological (you could say that it has access to the akasha without being "it" -- it "reads" what's written in the stars). Basically it is the Lesser Shen in charge of one's overall destiny in this life, so its position toward other Lesser Shens is to give focus and direction to the whole, to the Greater Shen and to the physical body and their co-creative antics in this-here life and beyond.

 

Like I said, zhi is twofold -- the yang zhi resides closer to the surface, the yin zhi is hidden. The yang part is the driving engine behind conscious destiny-affecting decisions one makes in life, plans conceived and goals set and worked toward (using "willpower," "determination," "planning and scheduling" and the like). The yin part is the driving engine behind unconscious destiny-affecting decisions already made in the larger context, in "reality itself" -- "written in the stars," inherited from ancestors, guided by gods, and so on. Yin zhi has access to the past and the future, and drives one's "willpower" toward particular moves in one's life whose meaning only becomes clear "in hind sight" -- as something that was "meant to be," destiny.

 

That's the common situation, but a taoist who looks deeper into these things might want to read yin zhi (and the records it is in touch with at all times) "preventively," so to speak, and even figure out if anything there can or should be re-written (that's where cultivation comes into the picture). So anyone who engages conscious processes where they would typically, in an untrained human, run on autopilot, unifies the yin-yang components of zhi so that conscious choices and unconscious drives become one, gaining more control over one's destiny. Processes that affect zhi are usually esoteric practices -- taoist magic (including but not limited to internal alchemy), astrology, feng shui, devotional practices (austerities, prayer, service to others, veneration of deities and ancestral spirits, noble causes, etc.). Some lifestyle and even dietary choices can be useful too, but by themselves, without access to yin zhi, these are more likely to affect yang zhi only, and therefore are prone to be mismatched with what isn't known -- including one's true lifestyle and dietary needs the knowledge of which yin zhi possesses and yang zhi (let alone the upper crust of the left brain hemisphere) doesn't. (This explains all those smoking, drinking, and otherwise non-PC top level masters and shamans who baffle lay folks or provoke condescending attitudes and are mistaken for lacking in willpower or responsibility or information. Nope... they just know what their yin zhi knows, which vastly differs from what the FDA might assert.)

Thanks Taomeow.

There are two ways to look at it that bridge the 'contradiction'.

One is related to the misconception most people have that they reincarnate. 'They' do not, and by 'they' i mean the personality, what most actually think of as themselves. What returns to source is the essence, that which simply is, the spirit i guess or whatever one chooses to call it.

As i understand it, the energetic pattern created by the personality can exist on some level of reality for a period of time, potentially for a long period of time. This is very different to being a ghost, it's more like a psychic imprint.

The other is that time is simply a perception, and that the seeming contradiction is purely due to a limitation of understanding. We exist both as a reincarnation moving through time, and at the same time anyone we've been and anyone we've been born from also exists simultaneously in the space-time continuum.

The Big Draw is a temporary measure IMO, once you have your pelvis open (dense and subtle matter) and can cultivate the heart/sex energy together, you can relax into it and simply allow orgasm into your whole body. Testicle breathing is a good one for doing this, it cultivates Yin Ching, which Chia doesn't emphasise enough.

There is a great resource that one of your fellow TB memebers has put together: http://alchemicaltaoism.com/, has heaps of stuff and a lot more balanced approach than most books you'll get out there.

It is true that some Daoist classics can be difficult to translate, but even these can still serve their purpose. Someone with experience can look at even a botched translation and pick up the original meaning. However, the language of most classics is not so difficult. Their symbolism may be more complex in the case of alchemical texts, but these are just one type. Most Daoist texts don't use elusive language, but the meaning is deep and may not be interpreted correctly by the reader. Thomas Cleary does a decent job, partially because he has translated so many other spiritual texts. Eva Wong is also decent as well. Both have put a great deal of effort into publishing original Daoist classics. Sadly, few so-called "Daoists" in the West ever take the time to read any of them.

Most people just want to relax, get fit, feel good, and aren't interested in enlightenment or realisation of the Tao, this is a problem across all approaches. And it's not just reading them, but studying them deeply that the goodness lay.

In the past, Daoists loved to study and collect knowledge about the Dao, which they viewed as being as valuable as treasure. Even the Chinese Daoist canon is called the "Treasury of the Dao." All accounts depict the Daoist sages as great lovers of learning who respected the classics and were eager to learn their methods. Now people aren't even willing to cough up $10 and a few hours to learn from them, because they would rather dabble in a modern craze. They are equally ignorant of even the most basic history. Is it any wonder that Buddhism and Hinduism are in good order, but Daoism is in such a poor state?

I'm not entirely convinced Hinduism in the west is in a particularly good state either, almost similarly people pursue the 'best' form of yoga when it is merely a preparation for meditation, they are fascinated by kundalini awakening and think the awakenings of kundalini are some kind of enlightenment, and i really doubt most people have read the classics.

IMO Daoism is still suffering from the disruption caused to the tradition in China, but there are some amazing and genuine teachers out there in the world, and few of them have big marketing machines behind them because what they teach is too subtle for most, they are interested in quality students, not quantity, i've been lucky enough to study with one of them, and perhaps another. What they teach is very different to any of the modern qigong stuff i've read in books.

Most people just don't take the time to get the subtleties no matter what the tradition, they miss the true art of the stillness, and they aren't willing to pursue their goal relentlessly and shy they away from the difficult work of truly facing yourself.

Oh, and Zhan Zhuang rocks, even if you can't find a teacher (always preferable), like any physical art part of the key is self observation and correction, not 'just standing there'.

I was refined sugar free for a couple of years, tough but awesome, these days i eat very little, but now and then binge and regret it. It upsets the chemical balance in your body that's for sure.

Regarding the fruit thing, i actually quite disagree that the sugars are as bad for you on a general health level, the reason being they are contained in a whole environment. One of the primary effects of refined sugar (aside from your body mistaking it for adrenaline) is that the sugars try to return to a more complex 'complete' state by stripping iron and calcium from your body. Most naturally occurring high sugar foods are high in these minerals, eg fruit, sugar cane, etc.. That said, some medical conditions are effected by particular forms of sugar regardless of whether they are refined or not.

And being a Taoist forum, it's good to consider it from a 5 elements perspective. As i understand it sugar during summer is especially bad as it over stimulates the heart, but in moderate doses during winter it can be good for warming the organs, especially if one is prone to yin conditions, like feeling cold.

Personally i think refined sugar is one of the most addictive and evil drugs we've created, subtle enough to be consumed everyday but ridiculously addictive and profoundly dulls the mind/body connection.

Hey Paul,

Not sure exactly what you mean by bigu principles, a quick google revealed some info on both 'living on light' and 'living on Chi'. I'd say it would fall into the later, as Master Tao said, 'use your spiritual power to feed yourself'. We are also taught a swallowing the sun exercise to supplement, so i guess that falls into the former.

As i mentioned, the workshop this weekend is not on the meditation and fasting, i'm not sure exactly what the topic is, i couldn't get a clear answer from his wife, i get the impression it's a bit more esoteric.

The practices so far have been very subtle, very yin, but getting more powerful over time. Am about to embark on my longest fast which i'm really looking forward to.

Hope that's of some help!

From my reading of it he isn't saying he's enlightened (he actually uses 'awakened', which i think is a very different claim, as in one can be awakened to the path to enlightenment), or in reference to the thread he links to, he 'has access to the original mind', quite different to being the original mind. Semantics perhaps, but noteworthy. He really says just that he doesn't need any information any more - he has access to a source beyond that, time to cultivate, to dig a deeply into the practice that has taken him this far, rather than widely into practices.

I admire that, envy possibly, my mind often feels like a zombie filing cabinet/bookshelf relentlessly and mindlessly trying to consume as much information as possible.

Anyway, hooray, TB = X+1, ignorance = Y-1, where X and Y may or may not have anything to do with each other, but if they did may be something like X=[Tai Chi (the symbol)]=Y

Or something like that.

I just thought i'd bump this up as Master Tao has another workshop on this weekend (on a different part of the practice to what i reviewed above), i believe there are still spaces, so if you're living in Melbourne and interested (it's on from 1-5pm sunday and saturday) - and i could highly recommend it - head on over to:www.daoyintherapy.com.au. If there are any TB's going along, drop me a PM.

If you're getting that electric feeling (is that a song ), be conscious of where you're sending the energy, fill your belly full!

Intentionally pulling up the testicles can be really useful as a starter and to unblock and get your consciousness in there - but it's a bit like training wheels. After a while, you will find it's not necessary to contract them, and in fact you will get more energy flow if you don't.

Any suggestions on a better book to use (for those without access to a direct teacher)?

Perhaps I should have started a new thread, because in my case I didn't retain anything (that I know of). I appreciate the general useful information, but I was posting primarily to learn if anyone else experienced perineum area discomfort after the first time they tried the Three Finger Lock. It's four days later and I'm still a bit sore; maybe I pressed too hard and sensitized the area.

 

Oh brave new world!

Retention is a bit of a favourite topic around here and we all have our favourite hobby horses about the whole thing, so apologies for not actually answering you.

Re the retention, you can retain a measure of energy by absorbing it through the bladder, the amount is up to debate, and really depends on whether you're consciously drawing energy into the body and circulating.

Re the discomfort, that's fairly normal, four days is a little long, i'd advise ejaculating if you've not done so already, and perhaps you did bruise the area if you pressed too hard - most guys are a bit numb on this part of the body so you can easily press harder than is good for you. Ideally if you insist on using it, you should be pressing only hard enough to help you control ejaculation, which, like a set of training wheels, should become lighter and lighter. But re the cautions mentioned, it's better to find other methods. Just deeply breathing will totally change your experience of sex.