Sahaj Nath

the timing of this post is uncanny.

that's all.

bk frantzis also teachs microcosmic orbit.

look, i'm never wrong about this stuff.

except when i am.

lol!

it makes me wonder why he'd teach that, though. to me it makes sense only after the orbit opens up on its own, 'cuz then you stretch your legs a little and get more familiar with how the directions of the currents affect you. it's the timing that would make the difference. but early on in cultivation training, i'm just really having trouble seeing it as part of the water method.

My experience is that kunlun runs the orbit, better than "running the orbit" does.

 

***

 

I find that kunlun allows the front to run up and/or down - whatever it does - and energy harmonizes and then flips around up the back, and then the cycle starts over. That's not the only thing I've found the kunlun method to do, but some part of it anyhow.

 

I find that my orbit is more naturally open during the day just being around, more than when I've tried other methods of "practicing the orbit".

 

So there.

yes!

to me THAT'S what makes the kunlun practice a true water method, at least according to my understanding. the orbit does what it does without you being the doer.

and while i may be crucified for taking a contrary view to dr. yang, i think his concept of natural flow is way too one-dimensional. there's a creative element of chaos (hundun) in every natural process of flow. the experience of the kunlun practice doesn't match up with yang's analysis of natural flow; i say go with the (far less rigid) lived experience, and if you're allowing rather than doing, then intellectual knowledge of the proper direction isn't even important.

THAT'S natural flow. and that's the safest, i think.

the idea i was drawing from:

The original water school of Taoism came into flower during Lao Tzu's time, around 2,500 years ago. Unlike the Neo-Taoist fire tradition, the original water school Taoists had no great drive toward physical immortality, a major focus of Neo-Taoism. While the water method is known for not forcing things, for literally letting things occur in their own time, it is far from passive. Adherents of the water method prepare in every possible way so that when circumstances are ripe for the successful completion of their practice, they are fully open and available to the moment....

The water method is a practical way to release blockages in the whole mind/body so one can fully transform and ultimately experience conscious harmony with the Tao, right down to one's bone marrow. Then one naturally acts according to the principles of the Tao Te Ching.

--Bruce Kumar Frantzis

far more broad and abstract than you were talking about, it would seem. "path" and "method" are not always the same thing.

but my advice, especially if you're new to cultivation practice, is:

when in doubt, don't. there are plenty of safe, consistent, harmonious methods without having to resort to questionable combinations.

the potential damage that can come from some of these practices is very real. a lot of people on this board can vouch for that. i'm one of them.

i'm rather surprised no one ever commented on this article.

i'm just commenting so i can throw it back into the rotation and hopefully see what others have to say about it.

after all, there's a lot more people around here these days.

I am planning to practice the microcosmic orbit for the rest of my life, with my final goal being the ability to lead qi to the brain safely (water path). A friend recently recommended that I check out this forum, and after doing so I stumbled onto the practice of Kunlun. My friend had already told me alittle bit about it, but I read several of the threads and found it to be something I would very much like to train. However, I'm worried that it might interfere with my small circulation and embryonic breathing practices. Would Kunlun harm my other practices?

maybe i'm wrong about this (and please someone correct me if i am), but there's really nothing 'water path' about the microcosmic orbit.

the kunlun practice and embryonic breathing might prove to be a good pair, but if you identify with the principles of the water path, then you should realize that water doesn't lead; it flows. you allow the orbit to open on its own, without need of conscious direction. THAT's the safest method, and that's the water method. your biggest job it to get out of the way of what the natural flow will do for you all on its own. you learn to flow with it, with a sort of unconditional embrace.

i'd say that kunlun is very consistent with the water path, but the MCO is not.

the two would conflict and could cause serious complications.

like Hundun's sudent... who Hundun believes shouldn't have been there.

just for clarification:

i didn't have any students there. not sure how that got communicated.

my point isn't really "to show, or not to show," though i think the whole "scare them off early" idea has NOTHING really to do with the strategy, as per mantra's own words that i quoted above.

i think there's more credibility when the displays are downplayed. and i think it's more impressive when it's somewhat under-emphasized and explained and shown as simple principles at play.

lol hundun you make it seem as if though you make love to the tea

brother, i do my best to make love to EVERYTHING!

the tea is easy to love; it gives so much back in return.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio

 

The crystals don't actually power the radio, they merely change it from electrical energy to sound waves.

 

imho crystals may have some valid use for transforming energy and chi we cannot use into forms which we can, but I don't think they actually work like batteries for chi, or other such energy.

hmm.

a perpetual energy converter would be AT LEAST in the same ballpark as a battery, wouldn't it?

you all speak of tea as if it's something mystical. am i missing something? my tea is just green-tea flavored water...

from the sounds of it, you're missing everything!

some of my best qigong practices is sitting on a cushion and enjoying a cup of tea in silence. every breath, every moment counts. it's a time to drink in every seemingly minute experience and to feel gratitude. drinking deep. drinking life, not just tea.

the whole process of making the tea, the correct temperature, steeping for the correct amount of time. holding the cup. warming the hands. taking in the aroma. pouring the tea. sipping it. letting it sit on the tongue for a moment, then swallowing it, and feeling the warmth as it moves down to the tantien. feeling the body as the subtle essence radiates through you...

drinking tea can be poetry. especially good tea.

i can't do tea bags anymore; i can taste the paper of the bag and it ruins the tea. only loose leaf for me.

More info to come Also I was looking at the weekend of the 26th and 27th.

How does this date fit for everyone?

 

Peace,

Lin

that's more than enough notice. i should be able to make it work.

never been to new york before. should be fun.

You've piqued my curiosity Hundun. What sort of teas do you prefer. I've been known to drink the odd cup of oolong . The other day the lady at the chinese market got excited when she noticed I was buying some kuan yin. She said she that's what everyone drinks back home.

i'm a big fan of some ti kuan yins. light and nutty. drives some of my students crazy, though.

i'm a huge fan of white tea, but it's an expensive, delicate tea, and most people don't make it correctly.

but i have a few up my sleeve that i won't share here; you'll just have to show up and find out.

I do agree, though: Luk's book does seem more of a DIRECT translation rather than an adaptation to English readers. It's kind of like reading a word for word of the Dao De Jing rather than reading Stephen Mitchell's English interpretation.

 

thoughts?

just for the record:

i think stephen mitchell's translation is one of the worst translations out there. it was the first translation i ever saw, over ten years ago. so it captured my interest. but i've liked almost every translation i've found afterward better.

can't really speak on the taoist yoga book; i don't really use it. i do like the stimulation of sexual fluids bit in the beginning, though. i think that's right on. there's probably more that's right-on in the book than at first appears, but sean's probably right, ultimately.

you know, after going though a ton of older threads and talking privately to a few people, i'm beginning to soften up a little about max.

he struck me as a genuinely nice guy when i met him, and even after my disappointment i couldn't shake that fact.

i mean, let's face facts: there were some things said that were just flat-out untrue. if people are still unconvinced, i have a partial list.

but the feel i got from him was positive.

maybe the biggest problem is fear on the part of mantra:

"...some people NEED TO SEE the robes and whatnot in order to value the information they are getting and respect the person who is presenting it. This is part of the human psyche.

An exalted, dramatic presentation is absolutely necessary for some people because collectively we judge books by their cover."

or maybe it's not fear; maybe it's pure marketing strategy. but i don't want to believe that.

i think maybe if you were able to trust in authenticity, and fuck what you think the audience wants (not needs), i might not have responded so disagreeably.

i don't know about the claim of enlightenment. well, actually, i think i do know. the claim of enlightenment is kind of bunk. but the claim of joy and bliss is true. the claim that these states can help the ego let go is true.

and the fact that this incredibly simple technique is more profound in results than most people have or will ever experience is true.

so why the hell can't that be enough? why all the sensational shit? fear is ego, and the idea that people NEED TO SEE the bullshit only underscores my belief that true enlightenment is not to be found on this path.

i want to like max. i do.

i think my biggest problem has more to do with how he is being represented (and how he's maybe buying into the necessity of that representation), than it does with max as a person.

i needed to put that out there.

Hundun,

 

Its probably a fundraiser for the monks at Menri monastery.

yeah, i agree.

it just seemed kind of daunting at the time to write out everything i was thinking when i read the page.

but in a nutshell i was thinking:

how must they view us here in the west? and how sad is it that they're right, for the most part?

Thanks Hundun for sharing yourself so openly. You've given a very respectable context to your point of view, which I really appreciate and I'm sure others do too.

 

I agree transmission doesnt make a Master. Absolutely 100% right.

 

(It's an interesting point as to what DOES make a Master. I'd say Ken Cohen is Master, would you, if you know of him? )

thank you, cat.

i am familiar with ken cohen. his knowledge base is pretty phenomenal. even when he's talking about the simplest and most basic of practices, it's clear that he has mastered it. extremely thorough. and even the more abstract elements come across effortlessly and simply.

i have his 100-day training course. to be honest, it bored me at first. but later it became my companion and aided me in memorizing and owning the foundation of cultivation.

he has my respect and admiration.

BTT for response to my question on the basic prerequisites for practice.

ah.

sorry.

as you might have guessed, no. nothing.

i think his point was that after the kunlun method, all the rest of it becomes obsolete.

it would have sat better with me if he had expressed that he was at least familiar with the basic prerequisites. but by the looks of the crowd, i honestly don't think their target audience is taoists or experienced cultivators. with the exception of a few bums, the crowd was, by and large, the type of audience you would expect at a new age event.

during the standing 5 elements practice on saturday, it was obvious that most of the people there didn't really have any background. people were shaking, straining, and sweating after 5 minutes of just standing with knees slightly bent. one of the arm posed DID strain me because i had never done it before, but the stance itself is very basic and i was surprised that so many people were having trouble. it suggested to me that very few people there had any history in the internal arts to compare the practices to.

yep -- that's why I stopped practicing so that my energy channels closed up.... partly because I accidently pulled this old lady's spirit out of her head! She bawled nonstop for at least 15 minutes.... haha she was fine though -- some healing she had asked me for! haha. No touch -- just I forgot not to pull energy out of the top of someone's skull....

LOL!

that was the best laugh i've had all week! thanks!

Ack. reiki=feiki.

you rock.

I can bring some tea...but everyone needs to bring their own cups.. serious

A small group is no problem, but if by december, jan, we have more than the cups in my home, people have to bring their own...lol

Peace,

Lin

 

P.S.- I would buy paper cups, but that's just being wasteful

 

Maybe styrofoam...you can use it for ...forever.... JUST KIDDING

i'll bring at least 9 extra cups. cute ones, too!

i'll also bring some amazing tea. (i drink upwards of 5 pots every day.)

some stuff that'll change your life. you'll see.

Its awful when a good conversation is stopped in its tracks by someone who actually knows the facts

 

Michael

really???

i'd say the conversation's just getting started.

*waits desperately for others to post*

seriously, though. the fact is that the content of mineral/crystal deposits in sedona and similar places is very high. humungous crystals covered by sedimentary layers may not be categorically true, but it could be the case in some areas, with climate change accounting for the sedimentary covering.

plus, sedimentary rock can be derived from both igneous formations and metamorphic formations, if i remember my 8th grade class accurately.

blueberries

EXACTLY!

*bows in admiration*

 

reiki wasn't originally designed to be a mere tool for hands-on healing; it was designed to be a path of enlightenment via direct experience the divine. healing was a wonderful side-effect, so usui capitalized on that part of it to garner support.

 

And where did you get this info? Again, that's what you heard, but we also heard strories of Usui beeing Christian, that reiki is from atlantis, etc

 

i guess i'm a little confused. your post strikes me as really reactionary, like you ARE trying to argue rather than trying to understand other ways of knowing. if i offended you in some way, then i'm sorry.

i haven't read up on this stuff in a long time, but plenty of real research has been done on usui sensei and the gakkai in japan. but i won't bother trying to make any points.

but your "health and perfection fascism" point really missed the message that i was trying to convey. you're obviously not interested in another possibility, so again i won't bother.

if anyone else didn't quite get my meaning, i'll be happy to clarify.

OK, I majored in Physical Geography (earth science) and took geomorphology. I have either lived in Sedona or visited my parents still living in Sedona since 1966. My job takes me over Sedona and Northern Arizona several times a year in a small single engine airplane. Crystals come from metamorphic rock. The red rock formations of Sedona are sedementary layers. The same layers that are found throughout the entire Colorado Plateau. Around Flagstaff and along the Mogollon Rim the sandstone and limestone layers are capped with basalt from the volcanic activity that formed the San Francisco Peaks. When you fly over the area, the basic geomorphology of the region is very clear. I'm positive that the guy doesn't have a clue.

i don't know if that's fair, eric.

he might not have the answer, but he seems to AT LEAST have a clue.

he just went all the wrong places with it.

I am not advocating here just passing on an interesting link that I saw in one of the buddhist mags out there, an ad in shambhala sun.

http://www.ninieways.org

http://nineways.tripod.com/ancienttibetanhealing/

there is some truth there. what was rediscovered and became known as reiki DID have its origins in Tibet. but the "wandering tibetan priests" teaching secrets to random 'special' people in the form of reiki was still bogus.

$2,500 retreat to learn the most authentic reiki from a high lama!

does that mean it heals any better?

"Let's buy ourselves some culture!"

this isn't directed at you, tumoessence; you already said you're not advocating anything. just food for thought for everyone reading.