Sahaj Nath

I have a question about healing and healer safety.

 

When you are working on a patient...is it possible to pick up their toxic energy? Or, if you feel any of their discomfort - is that just an empathetic reaction and not actually "absorbing" that problem yourself?

 

And if you can pick bad qi up - are there procedures to protect yourself or purify yourself afterwards?

 

Also, is it possible to drain your own qi when healing others?

 

I seem to have heard some conflicting views on all these, so does anyone know the real deal?

perhaps i can answer this. i do healing work anywhere from 4 to 7 days a week, in addition to teaching.

yes, it's possible to pick up the toxic energy of another person (especially if you think of it as "toxic").

and yes, sometimes its just an empathic reaction, or an echo in yourself of what that person is experiencing.

yes there are practices to protect yourself and to purify yourself afterwards (as well as beforehand).

and it is ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE to drain your own qi when healing others! this is what most people do, in fact. it's not necessary, but i think it's so common because of the unrefined mindset of most healing practitioners.

it's all pretty much a matter of right thinking and the subjugation of the ego.

thinking of energy as "toxic" can guarantee that it IS. thinking of energy as merely blocked or stagnant is different; you can free and release this energy, and your body simply relates to it as freed energy.

picking up another person's illness primarily happens when the healer has an ego attachment to a certain kind of result. they can unknowingly invest themselves in another person's illness just by needing that person to "feel something" in order to validate themselves. most healers have this problem, and most of them aren't consistently successful in their work.

attachment to result = resistance to natural flow = increased probability of side-effects and personal drainage

a lot of qigong masters fall sick and frail at early ages because they have slowly drained themselves into their patients over the years. this is very common and completely unnecessary. its a way of relating to the world and the energy. some say it's a matter of energy coming 'through you' versus 'from you.' but even this distinction fails to shed enough light on the matter if you're not paying attention.

neither process is necessary. however we relate is the avenue through which it will function. period. what's safest and most effective depends on the work you've done to clear your own debris.

i treat most healing sessions like prayer, so it's like i'm inviting the healing presence to pour upon all of us. it doesn't have to come through me at all. i can sit in another room (or city, if i'm in the right mind frame) and have a more powerful session than if i'm touching the person.

ultimately it's we who create the rules and limitations.

i may have missed something, but i have to go right now.

Thanks for sharing the info. I have been practicing Spring Forest for a month and results are truly noticeable. My first experience with energy was while traveling on a plane fromIndia to LA when I met an Indian Master (http://kamakshi16.tripod.com) who practiced Traditional Tantra. I developed sickness and this guy placed his hands on my stomach. The pain disappeared in a while followed by sensations of deep fiery energy splashing in my spine. The bliss was overpowering though. Unfortunately I could not get in touch with him again. But the sensations continued to occur repeatedly and one night in a dream, the same person appeared and advised me to learn Chi Kung. I was wondering what it was when a neighbor told me she was taking a Chi Kung workshop by Master Chunyi Lin. Chunyi diagnosed the problem as Kundalini awakening and told me if was a powerful shaktipat that had happened to me and gave me specific exercises to balance energy. In a week, the unbearable energy was gone and calmness came back.

hmm.

if this story is true, i guess i'm having trouble understanding why you would still be looking for a "better" system to practice. seems to me like you're where you should be. the grass always looks greener elsewhere.

i agree with drew. i think chunyi lin is one of the highest level masters in the states. pretty sure he's the highest level master to ever teach publicly here. and his goal is modest and sincere, which i absolutely love about him.

more healers. less suffering.

i didn't know you were already practicing SFQ when you first posted this thread. but because you said you weren't interested in curing disease, i took that to mean you weren't interested in learning the healing aspects of qigong so long as you could maintain your health. chunyi lin's mission is to teach as many people as he can reach to heal themselves and to become healers. so if that's not what you're into, then i'd still say go with ken cohen.

but given how you came upon SFQ, how could you doubt that you're already on the right path?

just give yourself to it. even if you establish a set amount of time, like 1 year, just commit to it for that year, without any reservation. the quality you bring to your practice is more important than what you practice.

and since he hasn't responded to your comment yet, cameron DID have "uncanny" things happen to him on his path, moreso than anyone else in this forum, i think. uncanny is a strange choice of words, so i'm guessing, based on context, that you're talking about strange awakenings and negative side-effects. he had both. read through the kunlun threads and his personal journal.

where you are is more beautiful than you seem to appreciate right now. just consider that.

Where? Can't find anything.

kundalini reiki and tummo reiki hit the internet at around the same time. i think they might have been competitors for the same process of attunement. so 'tummo' might just be their term for kundalini. yet another reason i'd consider the system bogus. but they also have a yoga curriculum, so it might be the lessons rather than the process that the title refers to. i don't know. it's a bit vague.

i saw that stevejon made a couple of posts over at AYP. i also remember similar posts (i don't know if it was steve) a few years ago on a number of kundalini support sites. seems like a marketing tactic to me.

not that this forum is a stranger to that kind of thing, but you've gotta offer more information and experience than that if the tao bums are gonna bite.

and steve, what's up with erasing your initial posts? luckily, i saved a copy:

The safety, nature and result of the Reiki Tummo attunement is distinctly different from both traditional Reiki attunements and shaktipat. I would be more than happy to speak about this in more detail for those interested."

i'm interested.

you also claimed that you made more spiritual progress in one year of RT than in your 30+ years prior. given how far you advanced in Chia and Winn's system, that's a pretty big claim. so again, some details would be great.

what isn't encouraging is that it seems like the same one or two people are all over the internet pushing RT as the way to go. it's been around for years; if it's really so profound and effective, i'd expect to see a lot more supporters out there, not to mention a better, more informative, thriving website.

if steve's year was really so profound (and i'm going to assume for the moment that it was), then perhaps it was those 30+ years prior which had brought him to that threshold, and RT just closed the remaining gap.

Does anyone here know anything about Kundalini? Would anyone feel qualified to advise me on a Kundalini matter?

this is a topic thoroughly and consistently explored at the AYP website. they have a forum specifically for kundalini:

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=22

i think more than a few of us have experienced kundalini, but it's not a really big topic around here.

if by 'kundalini matter' you mean that you're having trouble, i'd say go to AYP. i could offer some perspective, but i'm pretty sure i couldn't say anything that hasn't already been covered better over there. a much larger number of AYP practitioners have gone through/is going throungh kundalini, i think. (either that, or they just talk about it too much out of attachment to experiences.)

Here is a great frame for approaching meditation I was telling my friend about the other day. She kept saying that she needed to find more discipline to meditate and that she was just so lazy about it and this and that. I said, this is the wrong frame. Think of it like this. Meditation is like being kind of broke but you have this one room in your house that is literally filled wall to wall with thick stacks of hundred dollar bills. Or gold bars, I think I said gold bars which are prettier but also inconvenient when you just want to buy a sandwich down the street. Anyway, so you have this room full of money basically, and you are kind of broke. If for some really bizarre reason you were to AVOID going into that room everyday you would not sit around thinking, damn I need to find some discipline to go in there and pick up a wad of cash, or why am I so lazy to open that door and grab a gold bar?

 

You would probably think What is preventing me from enjoying the abundance I already have in my own home?

 

How can I overcome these obstacles and give myself permission to simply go within my own room and gather all the riches I need to feel completely satisfied?

 

Not sure if that is relevant at all, just wanted to tell that story.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Sean

nice, sean!

and welcome to the forum, aspirin!

*bows*

...

*bows again*

i trust your sincerity, Sifu. your example in this forum has already helped me to relax into my own being a little more.

i have a student who will be attending college in NY in the fall. i hope he will be close enough that he will be able to study with you.

Any resources for brain wave cd's that can be linked?

 

-LDiR

https://www.centerpointe.com/

Well, cure for diseases etc is not primarily an objective but health is something I would like to maintain. But the primary goal is - if I may dare to say so - Spiritual Enlightenment.

 

By authenticity I would mean the consistency or universality of the effectiveness. Also, being passed on by an authentic lineage of masters helping one to connect to the energy of the lineage.

well, the first objective of any qigong system is going to be to build and maintain health. if you're not interested in healing you don't want chunyi lin, and your choice comes down to ken cohen and mantak chia.

i think (by your own words, even) that cohen's a pretty easy favorite there.

Hi All,

 

I skimmed through the archives of the Tao Buffs forum and came up with the following conclusion:

 

Mantak Chia

 

- Shady, not all recommend practicing his techniques - from his books and tapes; no one seems to doubt the validity of the techniques but the modifications made seem to be suspicous.

- I have most of his books, and a few of his audio/videos. The issue seems to be bad organization here. I was so confused reading so much about the microcosmic orbit that I could not figure out what to do!

- But this guy seems to be teaching a few techniques which are probably more advanced than what others are teaching?

 

Ken Cohen

 

- His 'Essential Qigong' is a pleasure

- Seems to cover everything that Chia speaks of or at least most of it

- His workout is well-laid and doable

 

Spring Forest - Chinyu Lin

 

- This guy makes a lot of sense like Ken

- His audio/video course is simple, well illustrated and doable

- But what he teaches in four of his levels seem to be simpler than what Ken teaches. I am not too sure if that means the targeted result is smaller as well?

 

Has any one done a comparative analysis of these three guys or others offering such courses as well? The key points I think one should consider would be:

 

1. Authenticity

2. Effectiveness

3. Comprehensiveness - whether the techniques can address both the novcie and an advanced practitioner

4. Two sides - whether the techniques taught address both the health and spiritual aspects

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks......

i always seem to ask this, but then no one seems to volunteer it:

what are YOUR goals?

also, what do you mean by authenticity? it could be taken to mean almost the same thing as effectiveness.

i see. i suppose this is a no-go then. i thought what was initially meant by sifu lin is that their qi gong led them to not having to use the hospital, not that they preferred qi gong over medical treatment. that is crazy. thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

 

about anthony, hundun. the problem with it is that his class is spread out over a 4 week period, meeting once a week. this would mean i'd have to be at least a month in gainesville, probably in a hotel. although the class is only $100 the hotel would destroy me ;x. not to mention that level two class is 8 weeks, lol.

if you'd like, i can contact him and see what can be worked out. i know he does weekend retreats from time to time.

I listen to brainwave sounds. They are scientifically produced sounds to coax the brain to specific brain waves.

 

Alpha sounds are pouring down rain sounds with fast paced cricket like sounds in the background.

 

Theta is a relaxing water splashing sound as if you are taking a soothing bath with varying background sounds to take you deeper and deeper.

 

They have helped me tremendously. I always had problems getting songs to quit playing in my head. Concentrating on these sounds clears all thoughts quickly. I also had problems with incessant itching and wild twitching. Those phenomena have disappeared, except for a few mild twitches now and then.

 

Anybody else have experience with these?

yes!

part of the bonus package i got from mwight! yours sounds pretty cool; if you're up for it, i'd love to trade with you.

the first track is rain and bell tones as you rapidly descend through alpha spectrum to theta in 30 min.

the second track is pure rain and it's immersion in the theta state for 30 min.

i use them occasionally for seated meditation, and i use them often with certain people when i do healing work.

it's not being afraid it's that there is no money to spend lol

money can always be earned, my friend. that's your task. to earn money, to save money, and to bring your goals to life by being resourceful.

i've been poor all my life, and i'm no stranger to homelessness. i know what it's like to be broke. but i also know what's possible when one is determined.

i have no idea where the money is going to come from to get me to new york to meet up with Lin Sifu. but it's not an option for me to miss it. my task is to make it happen. and it will. period.

Also,

 

I am guessing Max has reached the point of transending his personal astrology..but whatever..still sort of interesting..or not!

i really should have joined the betting pool.

lol!

hmm so would you still recommend their qi gong or is that wacked as well? thanks

"Qi Gong cultivation is fine, but the foundation of what their system is preaching does not lead one to pure enlightenment. Their principles do not result in wholesome outcomes ultimately." --Lin Sifu

if their qigong practice is rooted in their principles, then you're better off seeking elsewhere.

don't be afraid to spend money on worthwhile training.

i still say one of the best things you can do for yourself is make plans to visit gainsville. it's not that far from you. it's a very attainable goal. it'll just take a little time and work to make it happen.

anthony's very good and very real.

unless this is just over my head,

i don't think this has anything to do with SFQ.

 

 

I don't think it's fair to assume that Mantra's comment "gross" necessarily implied any particular reaction to the topic of "man love" in general. It was "Make-up sex", with Cam, that he objected to.

 

Based on his having met Cam, he may have specific objections.

it was sex with ME, and i think i'm a pretty good-looking guy when i wanna be.

i'd really appreciated it if we could all stop fighting. i really feel exhausted from the whole thing.

i think mantra's attack on me was completely uncalled for. i meant it when i apologized for my anger and tone in the SF kunlun workshop thread. i try to be honest and genuine. i try to live my life with integrity, even when others around me don't understand.

it's insulting and a little hurtful to have my character attacked when all i'm doing is trying to participate in this community in a meaningful way.

i attacked the character of someone that many of you care a great deal about. i understand that. i don't expect be forgiven by all of you just because i apologized after the damage had been done. but i wasn't wrong to level the criticism. i was wrong for using an emotionally toxic tone. it was disrespectful and unnecessary, and i acknowledged that. and even though it was just a couple of weeks ago, i think i've grown since then.

i could have taken things a whole lot further, but i didn't think it would serve any good purpose. i said what i had to say about the matter, and now people have to make their own decision. and if someone else decides in the future to step forward and go against the consensus the way i did, it will be the same thing.

my criticism hasn't changed really, but my feelings about max as a person HAS changed. i was hoping to build a bridge with that statement, and instead i was accused of trying to hijack the system or something.

i'm here to learn like everybody else. and i'm here to share my knowledge and perspective, like everybody else.

am i really so dangerous? is the image or your group really so fragile?

image is a barrier to enlightenment. i may not know much, but i know that.

mantra, i think you're wrong about me. but i'm tired. i haven't been policing and attacking your posts, even when they make me wince.

how about you give me a break this time.

i like this community, and i don't plan on going anywhere anytime soon.

Thanks Hundun and drew!

 

Hun,

 

What did you think was wrong with Pangs compared to Lins?

i think robert peng was using his ability as a gimmick to sell his program. his program was very basic qigong and very common meditation practices. but the draw was the possibility that he might share some special information that help you to achieve his level of development. i had never heard of him before mwight was selling it here, but i'm always willing to pay for new programs if the price is right. even if i only gain one or two tips, it's worth it for me. but i don't think i gained anything from peng's work.

i DID gain a lot from chunyi lin's work, however. i think it was more valuable for me than for other people because i'm a teacher. his vision: "a healer in every household, and a world without pain." not secrets to power or anything like that. just a really simple understanding of what we are capable and how we might develop it. i think chunyi lin is very genuine. i got more out of his qigong than robert peng's, though i don't really practice either (i learn dozens and dozens; i couldn't possibly practice all of them). his talks about qi and qigong and healing are a lot simpler than my own approach to teaching, so it helped me to strip away more unnecessary theory and information. and he elucidates i couple of points that were brilliant and gave me a better understanding of things i thought i already knew. the two 30-minute music tracks are great; i use them almost every day.

peng didn't offer any knowledge lectures or anything to really give the beginning student a foundation, whereas chunyi lin's system is designed to take you from a complete beginner to a healer.

robert peng's site has been down for a few months now.

Would u say Lins has better or more powerful energy then Kunlun practise?

there's really no comparison. they have completely different goals. chunyi lin's system is a simplified, traditional type of basic daily practice. and he gives you what you need to begin developing as a healer.

the kunlun nei gung practice is geared toward ecstatic bliss. tapping into the blissful state can be used in healing, but it's not a system to teach healing. so it depends on what you're looking for.

i think chunyi lin has sincerity and integrity, and i value those things a great deal. drew has written about chunyi's skill, but chunyi doesn't use that stuff to sell his system as "the most powerful system ever" or anything like that. he wants there to be more healers in the world. his spiritual path is largely a personal one. he's not offering keys to enlightenment, just the possibility of a better, healthier life. i admire that about him.

so what are you looking for? and what is your background?

Hello

 

Has anyone trained with this system?

wyg

yeah,

i have Spring Forest 1, 3, and 4. i got them from mwight when i bought his video/audio set of robert peng's Elixir Light Healing program. there are a number of people around here who have used Spring Forest Qigong.

i think the general consensus was that most were not at all impressed with his system. so i think i'm in serious minority when i say that i liked it. i liked it better than robert peng's material.

i think maybe the simplicity with which he talks about qi and qigong makes some of it difficult to take seriously. but i think he had a couple of insights that more than satisfied me.

the exercises are really easy to do. some of the exercises are ones that i've already been practicing, but he has a couple that i think are unique to SFQ. he promotes whole-body breathing, which i think is one of the most important practices i ever learned, and too few teachers talk about it. Master Duan Zhi Liang (wuji hundun) also teaches whole-body breathing, but hardly any other qigong or taiji teacher i've met employ the breathing method in their classes.

whether or not you'd be into the material will probably depend on your experience. i think newcomers would take to the system more openly than experienced practitioners. i think his approach helped me as a teacher to simplify concepts and ideas. but some of his deceptively simple explanations contain brilliant points that i needed to learn better.

anyway, that's my take on it. i'd love to meet the guy some day. i've been thinking about stopping in minesota on my way back from new york when i go to study with Lin Sifu.

Mr. Hundun has become such a big fan of Kunlun in my absence. Now he can readily answer all questions for you. I wouldn't be surprised if he is even teaching it. In his mind, I'm sure he knows more about the subject than Max ever could.

 

"they smile in your face..." There's that song again.

 

Just like I called it.

 

Here is the reality: Hundun has no idea of why Max is teaching the way he is, what this practice can really do nor how to apply the energy, and he has absolutely NO IDEA of who Max really is.

 

He missed it.

I left this forum to allow things to develop and as I suspected Hundun has become an expert proponent of Kunlun. He has "softened" his view of Max and myself because we "are actually really nice people" (and out of the picture).

 

His flash judgments of Max and all of us only served to present HIMSELF as an authority so that he could assume the role of teacher. I personally am not going to let him get away with it.

 

Don't get me wrong, having a difference of opinion is one thing. Kunlun is not for everyone and Max is not for everyone but this is a completely different beast.

 

Those of you who might say that I shouldn't be bothered by these type of people do not understand the kind of damage they are capable of. It is very important to make people aware.

 

Anyone who tells you they WANT to become a "teacher," as Hundun has, is to be avoided.

 

As to the title of this discussion:

 

Those who want to mix other practices with Kunlun: you are on your own.

 

Why practice the "flowers" when you have the root? Kunlun will give you everything you want.

 

Those who want to mix Kunlun with drugs (after being told not to): you are on your own.

 

We are not using reverse psychology here. If you want to "self-discover" the reasons why we say this, you may not like the result.

um... i don't practice the kunlun method. just stated that in a couple of PM's. and i stated to you (this is the 3rd time now) that i didn't attend the seminar for the kunlun method. i went for max. and i was sorely disappointed. that hasn't changed.

and i wasn't the only one felt the way i did about the seminar; i was just the only one who stepped up and said something. and i figured it wasn't going to make me too many friends, but it might spare at least a few people the disappointment of traveling hundreds or thousands of miles to see him.

i really don't want want to fight about this. things were feeling good around here again.

i know tips about safe practice. i know a ton of practices that are similar to red phoenix and how to avoid complications (like the tongue, or NOT PRACTICING THEM).

so i guess your statement after the fact that you wished you and i could have talked more was just a show for the audience. before you came in with this (dare i say, EGO-driven) attack, i was ready for the possibility of a dialog with you.

look at post #2 in my SF kunlun thread:

"are the techniques effective? yes. they can be. but moreso than any other system? no."

again, that wasn't my point.

i think you would do your teacher and your mission a great service if you'd start showing a little more of that enlightened wisdom & compassion you've been cultivating over the last SIX YEARS at a rate of 100 YEARS PER HOUR.

i'm not the one making an ass of myself here.

welcome, jane!

glad to have you around!

=)

i've watched your youtube videos and admired you from afar. some of the subtleties in your motions suggest that you've got some real experience. and your unassuming approach is refreshing.

if you don't mind:

explain to me how MCO factors into the philosophy of the water method? especially the reverse breathing, which i considered to be quintessentially a fire practice.

i think i still have a lot to learn on this subject.

Kunlun really loads up my head with energy. All day yesterday my head felt like it was full of compressed energy. Not a bad feeling really, just a slight pressure and slight tingling sensation on the top of my scalp. I had this happen before while practicing the microcosmic circulation and pulling jing up my spine. Lasted for almost 2 weeks then subsided. I am trying to guide it down to my dantien, but obviously a lot is getting stuck. Is anyone else experiencing this? Does Red Phoenix help? should I leave the energy there? If enough is pumped in will it force the crown or third eye open? I am really quite new to these practices, and a couple years ago I would have said it was BS but I am experiencing some very real phenomena.

are you holding your tongue up to your palate? if not, start. that's one of the most important missing pieces that made max's lesson so irresponsible, in my opinion. the tongue and the perineum solidify the ren and du channels into one complete circuit. the energy in your head can actually drain through your tongue and return to the lower tantien. if there's a lot of energy to be drained, you'll even feel that tingling sensation in your tongue as well as your teeth.

IMO, red phoenix would only worsen the condition. it can induce dizziness, nausea, vomiting, headaches, the fight-or-flight response, and a number of borderline symptoms.

you certainly don't want to force the 3rd eye or the crown to open, but especially not the crown.

Just curious: Is it safe to learn kunlun from the book, or do I need to go to a seminar? Because I don't see Max coming to Missouri and I don't have any way to travel other than driving.

yes, it's safe. just read through kunlun posts that have already been written. any corrections that max would offer in person have already been expressed on this site.

this was very useful for me to reflect upon. esp. the last sequence with the korean shaman and the responses to her method. thank you.

yeah,

it brought a few tears to my eyes. her raw insight and sincerity, and the division among a group who should have embraced a common language.

i wanted her to be my mother. or lover. whatever.

ok, that not so extreme daoism, but a cool report about healing and shamanism

 

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-2173642525917926602

 

lao

thank you for posting this.

really, thank you.