Sahaj Nath

have you tried shaking? i would trade in my 2 hours of MCO for an hour or 2 of shaking practice. let the orbit take care of itself for a while. assuming that your self-assessment is accurate, i can't think of a faster or more effective way of clearing blockages in the body than shaking. bring some ecstatic practice into your contemplative work. the beauty of this type of approach is that you don't have to diagnose or pinpoint anything. you just let go. the body knows what it needs. and so does the spirit. all you need to do is let go, get out of the way. give it a shot. give it two days, and if you're not convinced, scrap it. you can draw some inspiration from these, then do your own thing. get as wild and free as you like. your body will let you know what it wants.

YES! you put that so well.

good stuff i think you're in a pretty wonderful place, my friend. some people treat the bliss as a high to indulge in and to chase after, terrified that it might abate, yet they pretend its otherwise. some people try to control, suppress, or resist the somewhat devastating nature of shakti, believing they are somehow being smarter or more mature based on some book they've read. the real secret is that there are no secrets. you can let it all go. let it all flow. the force that moves through you is the same force that governs the stars. bliss, uncorrupted, can work in your life like the finger of GOD. it's worth seeing where it takes you. it's worth discovering how truly intelligent its guidance is. and like i said in the above post, just keep in touch. let us know how you're doing. there are good people here should you find yourself in troubling waters. here are some wise words from my boy Vic, singing in my living room.

so beautiful. stay in contact. keep us informed on how things are going as you bear witness to your own deconstruction and expansion. the other night i did some free writing while abiding in that state you are in right now. in a sense i wrote it for you. i hope you enjoy it. http://thunderpath.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/continuously-evolving/

fair enough, you guys. i wasn't trying to be pompous OR a jerk. guruyoga, i'm a fan of most of what you've written since you've arrived. and if the context hadn't included Mark as the teacher, i would not have commented at all. i'm also a student of KS, but there's a HUGE difference between practicing independently and practicing within the presence of the Guru. the difference was enough to change my life, personally. so i felt it important to point out. good question. when i'm dialed in i don't really 'do' any of those things. i did the very first time i sat with him, but i cracked open in a pretty big way that first time (you probably hate that expression too, but that's how i talk), and since then it's been way more about witnessing the truth of his teachings than employing techniques. i assumed that was true for everyone who has chosen to stay with him. i agree that the core makes itself evident. in think we just use different words to express that. anyway i have no interest in generating hostility in any thread that talks about Mark. so if i offended, then i apologize. it seriously was not my intention. and if my personality just rubs you the wrong way in general... it is what it is. regardless, i like what you have to say.

i'm not sure where your analysis is coming from, but the segment quoted by Trunk in the OP, plus Trunk's subsequent commentary, flies in the face of just about everything you've said. Mark's method IS simple, and it's simpler than your interpretation of the breath sounds allows for. his method is simpler because it's more organic than that. and being a student of Mark's, i can state emphatically that i DO NOT listen to the tones of my breath when he asks us to listen to the So Ham; i feel and listen to the vibrations in my core. i listen with my whole being, and So Ham arises. organically. this isn't to say that there's no merit to what you have written (the practice may yield results that way as well), but you cannot attribute that perspective to what Mark is teaching. that's simply not how we roll. when one's practice is being influenced and guided by the radiant presence of the Guru, the traditional admonitions (like what practices to start with) go out the window. students of Mark Griffin are practicing while immersed in his energy and his state of nirvikalpa samadhi. listening, in whatever capacity, is vastly more useful than any other type of 'doing' once the Guru's Grace is active in your being. so in MY opinion, the beginner benefits MOST from learning to receive the Guru. no other lesson even comes close. a beginner who listens openly enough (without presupposition) has the same access to the deepest of states as seasoned practitioners.

*HUGS*

indeed. you're not alone in your experiences. far from it. and though there has been uncertainty in your own process, that very uncertainty has given you an organic relationship to the incomprehensible which no amount of studying can replace. you can filter even ancient texts on Kundalini through your direct experience. you have the same natural access to that wisdom as anyone who has ever written about it. it's just a matter of how open you truly are, how much trust you can put in your path. shouldn't? according to whom? your guard is your barrier to spiritual evolution. unless you have 'special needs' that we don't know about, there is no necessary guard. there is no need for protection. the very things we cling to are what keep us separated from the divine and the miraculous. EDIT: sometimes i forget that the rest of the world is not as crazy as i am, so you'll have to forgive me sometimes. there are certain "practical concerns" of modern life which can be disrupted by kundalini. you didn't offer any details on how your energy was triggered, but most people who weren't touched by a master go through periods (often extended ones) where they don't get to choose a preference. when kundalini wants to have her way, keeping one's guard is typically not an option unless you learn how to compromise with her. those people might have a deficit, and their energy body might be pulling energy from your field, causing a sense of energetic stimulation. this tends to happen a lot with me whenever i'm around strangers who have a serious illness. so that's at least 1 theory. *shrugs* there are others. one goes the same places everyone else who hasn't been touched goes, but with that added comfort of knowing that you will get a LOT more out of it than others can. just make the effort to be a great listener. EDIT: the most important (or at least fulfilling) thing that we can do is continue to evolve. allow the awakened energy to change you, allow the divine to move through you, as you. learn the great mystery of wu wei by cultivating your relationship with kundalini. discover the joy of realizing that your limited, egoic self is just a vessel.

where did the quote come from? that link in the quote doesn't work. who was in the picture being talked about? what you experienced sounds like kundalini shakti to me. sounds like a very pleasant and fortunate initiation of the process, too. i would need to know a little more about lifeforce's experience to really comment on it. he experienced a transmission, for sure, but was it shaktipat? i can't really say, but it's likely. you mentioned the "better than love" experience and some radical psychological changes. that's the kundalini shakti that i know. and years later it's still with you. again, that's legit K. if i recall correctly, Seth's first shaktipat transmission came from viewing a photograph. for me that kind of "object transmission" was an extremely rare occasion. but after i received transmission from Max, i found myself really sensitive to things like photographs, religious art, and even written text. i could dial into the energy field of lots of masters that i knew nothing about and have no known lineage connection to, just by observing an image or reading a passage. so i've become very familiar with that dimension of things now, but it's not always "shaktipat" that's happening. gratitude and surrender. if it's shakti, those qualities tend to arise within like a driving impulse to dissolve into perfect divinity. but whatever. better to enjoy the mystery of it all, and to let it all unfold. let the natural flow lead the way. EDIT: i found the actual link to the page on google. YES. that's shaktipat. i know that presence anywhere. pretty sure i've met that guy before in the 90's. congrats to lifeforce if he was able to draw it in effectively. if he really opened up to it, then the connection isn't going anywhere. it's with him.

every human being experiences emotional pain. identification with that pain, investment with that pain, turns that pain into a wound. so yes, if the goal is escape, it's a bypass attempt. you don't treat emotional wounds with clear, wholesome thoughts. emotional wounds will clear themselves when you get out of the way and allow the pain to run its course. it's fear of that pain or memory that leads people to assume that something needs to be done about it. truth is, most of the things we "do" further exacerbate the pathology. i think that's one of the main premises of the book, but my copy hasn't arrived yet. just the same, though, i can argue that from my own experience, both individually, and with patients over the years. since he was mentioned above by my brother seth, i'll quote him again. i agree with Ken Wilber's analysis of healthy spiritual stage development. as we cultivate openness and non-resistance, non-judgment, some things hurt more (no armor), but they bother us less. "no-mind" types of meditations, like vipassana, lead to this type of healthy development. you begin to realize how your desires and your aversions are really the source of your suffering. pain is inevitable in life, but suffering can be healed.

although i addressed most of this in the above post, i'll comment on this directly as well. in my opinion, newcomers shouldn't be concerning themselves with high level systems, alchemy, any of that. there needs to be a period of discovery and exploration before diving into the deep end. if you're new and you're practicing a system that doesn't allow you to play around, i would leave that system until later. you just don't know how much personal agency you are giving up in terms of taking part in your own development. the driving force behind the impulse to get the most, best, most powerful 'whatever' is something that needs to examined and ultimately deconstructed. EDIT: sometimes it's not a materialist type of pursuit, but just a belief in rules, boundaries, and controls. when you boil that down, though, it's a belief in limits, and it will ultimately limit you. self-exploration, self-discovery, and self-expression can all be critically mitigated when a system is too rigid right from the beginning. i teach from Roger Jahnke's book The Healing Promise of Qi. every newcomer has to read that book. the first three phases of cultivation in the book are Discover Qi, Gather Qi, and Circulate Qi. these are very open-ended and allow plenty of room for play. there are exercises in the book as well. i tend to not bother much with the exercises in the book, but they are all safe, and i encourage my students to play with whatever they want in the book and discover what they like and what speaks to them. i my opinion, any system that doesn't have a similar beginning stage is doing a disservice to newcomers. SO MUCH is learned in this stage. so many things awaken for the first time, things that students never really knew existed. there's no concern with lineage transmission at this stage. that kind of thing comes later, if at all. the student will be in a much better position to determine the value or necessity of a lineage practice in terms of their own goals if they enjoy a really good elementary stage. and the really sharp ones start realizing early on that the highest levels in the advanced systems have a lot of similarities to place where we began. this is just my take on all of this. it's not quite as cut & dry as this might read, but this is as accurately as i can express it all at the moment. if someone is sick or in need of healing, then, by all means, learn a proven system that you can practice every day. absolutely. but if that is not your situation, don't limit yourself so quickly. there is so much to be gained in the beginning by simply keeping oneself open.

not really either, actually. more like extemporaneous. EDIT: sometimes i get caught up in grammatical precision to an absurd degree. my apologies. it was sort of both. Intentional in that i was in the middle of a puja-type of ritual, honoring the Divinity as God and Goddess, and i was very engaged. Spontaneous in that i was not trying to generate a palpable qi-flow experience. my hand motions were similar to "pulling down the heavens" in qigong, my emotions were a state of reverence, and my intent was to bathe in the embrace of Mother and Father. having only read about life force energy at the time, the result left a powerful impression on me. i even shook myself and deliberately took myself out of the ritual to make sure what i was feeling was real and not some trance state where i'm half-asleep, and it was still there. had no idea how to move it or consciously interact with it, so i just excitedly journaled about it. i'm gonna have to get around to finally reading that guy, although i sorta got a crush on that Isha dude in the video above at the moment. this is a really good question. i'd like get some other people's thoughts on this as well. i think a lot of systems are rigid because that's how you preserve a lineage practice, with the idea that if you follow these steps exactly and observe all the necessary disciplines of the system, you should be able to attain the same level of mastery as the originator of that system. and if something is not working, it's easier for the teacher to pinpoint the problem and make corrections because they know all the ins and outs of the system. there's a lot of merit to this, but a lot of practitioners (and newcomers in particular) take the guidelines for TRUTH. for a certain lineage practice, a move should be done "this" way, but the student internalizes that it must be done "this" way, and it becomes a sin to do anything else. folks who are prone to respect and defer to authority have the biggest problem with this. i pride myself in being a heretic, and i accept the consequences that come with that. what i have found is that more often than not, the rules can be either bent or broken with little ill effects, but it depends on the system. the ugly truth that almost never gets talked about is that most warnings are there to protect that school or family's business rather than the student. so secrets are created. taboos. warnings of great harm. here in Sacramento we have Grandmaster Yeyoung who actually teaches his students that if they attempt to teach his art to others before he gives them permission to do so, they will have suffer all kinds of neurological damage and could induce insanity. i've seen this kind of warning in a number of schools, and it's absolute bullshit. but people believe it, and he's making a killing teaching really basic qigong at $115/session. but hey, he sure looks good in those authentic silk chinese pj's. but at the end of the day i don't blame the systems so much as the individuals who want the best, fastest, most powerful program available. they don't realize that such an approach cripples them. they enter into a system that over their heads, and they have no choice but to follow the rules as best they can and hope to get the results they're looking for. it's a consumerist impulse that does not serve them in this arena. they lock themselves in these ideological boxes before they even learn to crawl on their own. we now have a generation of teachers who are so rule and control oriented that they promote notions of micromanaging natural processes of the body like it's a virtue. why the hell would i want to spend my time bossing all my cells around? people who learn this way right from the beginning often fail to see the real extent to which the internal arts are, first and foremost, AN ART! the limits of their own thinking will put a cap on what they can achieve. in art class we are taught fundamental techniques, and we are told that in time, technique will give way to expression. this seldom happens in the internal arts world. in fact, it seldom happens in art class as well. start with play. start with expression. and let that authentic unrefined expression submit to technique, but only for a time because technique must again give way to a more developed, more mature, more refined expression. thanks for posing the question.

yes, and an awesome response, brother! does anybody wonder why i love this man?

YES! that's pretty much exactly what i believe to be true. and that understanding came from LIFE, not some book. first, and part of the point of creating this thread, get rid of the word "exactly." let it be messy. wander. get okay with NOT knowing. just be open to all possibilities. when it's strong enough to where you can't deny it, you won't miss it. there are hundreds of books and web pages that describe different possible characteristics and sensations. i had read some Rosicrucian book and a book on Wicca, both of which described sensations of life force energy. i didn't cling to any of those definitions. i only sought a True experience, an Authentic connection, however it might present itself. and when it did present itself, it was too strong to deny, and i knew i wasn't making it up. plus, a number of the sensations matched the descriptions in the books. i didn't believe the rules or descriptions of the books first. the books just inspired me and put me in the general ball park. what i believed was my direct experience, and that experience showed me what was true in the books. EDIT: Old Green had originally posted the video, "Absolute Intensity," not "Anger is Intensity." my response was to the original.

...and true to form, you're STILL missing the point. so i'm done.

oh, okay. this is fair. i can answer this much. first, no, she doesn't have a 100-day program. if she did, i would have supported your recommendation because i think THAT'S the kind of thing the OP might be looking for. makes sense, right? i know, it's crazy. what i'm saying is that she's not cranking out a bunch of Effie Chows. i don't think i need to explain the term "secular," but also her program teaches as much healing as just about any other healing program. what i'm saying is that SHE may be special, but her PROGRAM isn't. and, AGAIN, it's not comprehensive and doesn't have all the facets that the OP is looking for. no, i wasn't her assistant. i met her (1-on-1, NOT in an audience), i did some stuff with her, i was REALLY impressed with her theoretical knowledge, and i thought her energy was quite strong, but not super-remarkable compared to other serious healers. i hope that suffices.

i'm sorry, is the title of grandmaster supposed to intimidate me in some way? you're COMPLETELY missing the point of the thread AND the point i was making, but i'll indulge you just a little bit. i'm friends with a tai chi instructor who teaches at the senior center 4 blocks from my house who has known her for years (Teresa Ngo). the caretaker of my old boss from a few years ago used to get healings from her whenever she was in town, and would take classes with her students. i've met her, i've gotten a good scan from her (and YES, i felt her energy. so?), and i've done the Chow Qigong program. additionally, i OWN the Chow Qigong program. SHE can do some pretty cool things, but she's not a GOD. she doesn't claim to have the highest healing percentage of any teacher, but she has performed some really impressive healings. but the fact is that ANY competent healer with enough years of experience can put together a highlight reel and impress the public. the POINT is that her PROGRAM doesn't offer that much in terms of what the OP is looking for, no matter how cool SHE might be. EDIT: i can see that you're already writing yet another response, and it probably misses the mark, as per usual. i'm not gonna stay up all night doing this back-and-forth with you. i've made my point. more than once now. i don't have your stamina for all the posts that we all know you can make this discussion into.

please try to keep up. she's a skilled healer. granted. she's got juice and she puts on a good show. we get it. but do you get that her skill actually has NOTHING to do with what she offers in her training programs? Michael Rinaldini isn't traveling the world trying to wow audiences with parlor tricks. He's practicing his art. he's teaching it. and he's living it.

are you serious, drew? have you actually worked with her or visited her center? i like Effie Chow. a lot. she's a pretty amazing lady. but she doesn't offer the kind of immersion that this guy sounds like he's looking for. her program is really basic and pretty damn secular. i've met her and a number of her students. i also have all of her materials. she's really skilled and puts on an impressive lecture, but her program doesn't even make the top 5 list of places i would go. jigme kunzang, it would really help if you could flesh out the kind of time, effort, and money you and your girlfriend have and are willing to put into this kind of thing. also, what are your ages? in the meantime, you should send an email to Michael Rinaldini. he's a great open-door teacher with a lot of depth. he's also a Taoist priest. he does weekly classes, retreats, periodic intensives which sometimes include all-night meditation, the works. he's a registered Level IV instructor with the NQA. (if you don't know, google it. ) here's his website: http://www.dragongateqigong.com/ i really think that this might be the kind of thing you're actually looking for. it's got all the goods, but it's not so strict or intense that it's like a militant or monastic type of setting. a pretty good middle ground, i think.

this looks like a great book! a know a lot of folks who have difficulty wading through Chogyam Trungpa's material. this might be a great alternative that conveys some very important core lessons. i really wish this had been posted in the GENERAL DISCUSSION area instead of the TAOIST area. i almost never read this board, and the book's not even about Taoism. glad i found it, though.

...i think you just further illustrated the point i was making. the guy in your example learned through experience. he explained his experience with that particular color which, up until that time, had been limited to pregnant women. now he has perceived it in someone who clearly wasn't a pregnant woman. a new dimension of understanding has been added to that color for him. my guess is that he didn't walk away from that experience with more certainty that "pink always means pregnant". it was much more expansive and enlightening than that. for BOTH of them. no one is claiming that aura's have no meaning or that color is totally meaningless. that's certainly not my position. the example i gave above using the color black is from my direct experience. black has indicated all of those things and more. i knew knew the difference each time because i was dialed in to the patient, and to the moment. now, had the guy in the audience passed a pregnancy test due to all of his work, THEN we can start defending the label of science maybe. but what's so wrong about acknowledging it's an art and there are still so many unknowns that continue to unfold as we develop further. sounds to me like the guy in the story would agree with this. you are right that people can be too skeptical. it can shut down any ability to understand. but i am not claiming that there are no answers, only that the indicators are multifaceted and that the question should remain open. as Ya Mu has said before, there are always higher levels. no need to drop anchor here. in my own experience (i don't work with pregnant women), when i see pink it's always in a context of love and security in some fashion. i see it in children who are being raised right, and i see it in parents when they focus on the beauty of their relationship and the wonder of their child. and i've seen many occasions where the color did not arise, yet all those qualities were still there. mostoften there is a security-related issue when that color is absent. but at the end of the day all i can really say is that i don't know. there are too many variables. i just have to leave the question open. there are always more senses at play than just color, and each encounter is an opportunity to grow.

the first question that comes to mind: why aren't you asking your relative about this? there's really nothing static about the "meaning" of colors in auras. the attempts to nail it all down into simple and concrete definitions is new age nonsense, IMO. what do YOU feel in your chest? what does your relative intuitively feel about the whole thing? i'm sure that someone might chime in all matter-of-fact, and you can even find books that define the colors, but that kind of information further obscures your ability to feel for yourself what is happening in your own energy field. just listen. it's your energy field. relax and listen with your whole being. an example: black can be a calming, soothing, (sometimes water element) healing presence that cools down over-activity in a fiery area like the heart & chest. it can also be cancer. it can also be a transitional space where an illness is either materializing or dissolving, or a different quality of energy is doing the same. there really is no "black means this." plus, there are differences of shades, vibrancy, luster. there are multiple, simultaneous qualities arising at the same time, and they are all a part of the communication. there's an emotional element, a kinesthetic element, and sometimes just a direct intuitive knowing. an effective psychic needs access to more than just one dimension (like a general color) if the reading is going to be valuable. it becomes new-age nonsense when we apply materialist, reductionist rules & standards to an esoteric, fluid, and largely mysterious field. so if you trust in your family member's skills, then you should ask for that person's overall feel and interpretation of the entire experience they had of you. but looking up colors won't get you very far. that's my take on it, anyway.