Sahaj Nath

thanks for the review! i'm always looking out for new material, even if it only teaches me one or two new tweaks that i might not have considered, so i'll certainly check out the video. you might want to correct your spelling in the title of the thread. when i read "Tao Chi" i almost passed over the thread as some new agey repackaging of basic practice. i only opened it because i thought you might have misspelled it. i'm glad i was right, cause now i'm gonna get another video!

c'mon, now you're just not playing fair. your post borders on libel. he's actually correct about most of his integral theory. folks who think that they can learn some super secret techniques, or that they can focus on just one dimension of their being and attain full realization are painfully naive. development in ALL dimensions is important for fast, balanced, and stable realization. you work out the body with whatever you like. it could be a vigorous qigong routine. for him it was weights, for obvious reasons. you work out the mind with scriptural studies, debate, chess, mathematics, poetry. you work out the spirit with meditation of any kind, various forms of sadhana. you work out your psychological condition with therapy, cognitive study, psychoanalytic study, 3-2-1 shadow process. those are the four core areas of development for achieving a realization that sticks. there are also more specific lines of development that one might want to focus on, like ethics, sex, work, emotions, and relationships. and there's obvious overlap. so qigong can cultivate the body, psychology, and spirit. and so on. he calls the integral approach cross-training because by training in multiple lines of development at once, you grow faster in each of them than you would if you spent all of that time on just one line of development. so let's be clear. maybe because you didn't pay for the material, you didn't take the time to actually study any of it, either. i don't know. but your statement was grossly off the mark.

Agreed. i tend to harbor the belief of "any means necessary," so long as it is congruent with my current stage of development. i love supporting good teachers and organizations with my money. i don't even use bit torrent materials if there's a way to purchase that same material through the group who originally offered it. BUT, when i was much younger and we were poor (like bologna and ketchup sandwiches for dinner... that kind of poor), i stole books left and right. i knew that my hunger for knowledge was a healthy hunger, but it seemed unfair that i be shut out of opportunities to feed that hunger because we were poor and my mother was... well... a bad parent. if not for my book stealing days, i might never have risen above the conditions of my youth. but when i became a man, i put away childish things. i should probably go back and read the Wilber article before commenting, but i won't. i think i've read and seen enough Wilber to know where he's coming from. it's just not a black and white issue. teachers have always been paid for their time and energy; if they weren't, most of them wouldn't be able to teach. the issue is when profit becomes the MOTIVE for teaching. when teachers and groups turn what was meant to be a calling into a business. when more energy is put into advertising an image than offering quality teachings. with Ken, i think he's right about a whole lot of things, but he also tends to be fast & loose with the facts when he has an agenda that isn't about the truth of the matter. in this case, he DOES have an agenda. i think Shaktimama is right that he doesn't need to justify anything to himself, but he doesn't write those articles for himself, and he DOES have an interest in making his elite base feel good AND justified in their excess. not unlike Tony Robbins, whose teachings aren't just about making money, but about quality living. you'll never see Tony Robbins and Ken Wilber in conflict with each other. and it's NOT because they are both torch bearers of Truth. charging for a retreat or an intensive makes perfect sense to me, but you can kiss my ass if you think i'm gonna spend 5K for a 5-day Integral Big Mind retreat being led by some guy in an Armani suit. in other words: exchange of value is the nature of the human condition, i think. but don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. i can TOTALLY smell the difference!

NO, you're not ready to teach. not even close. if any of my students walked into your class, they would take one look at your stance, and they would walk out the door. unfortunately, absolute beginners don't have an eye for that sort of thing, which is why it's a responsibility you should take more seriously and REALLY LEARN YOUR CRAFT BEFORE YOU TEACH. i'm not sure if people are just being polite or if they truly don't see what's staring them in the face, but i have no problem saying that it's a horrible idea. you don't know enough. even what you THINK you've figured out is severely flawed. and your body mechanics are awful. balance and connectedness matter. understanding the difference between cleansing, tonifying, refining, and storing is important. knowing when there is TOO MUCH energy stuck in a particular area or organ matters. CIRCULATION OF THE ENTIRE SYSTEM is the bare minimum that someone should expect from a qigong class, and your form doesn't have it. even the color you visualize has consequences. if you were teaching your "lion style" to someone with a heart condition or hypertension, the idea of swimming in red sauce could be disastrous for that person. if they are lucky, you won't be able to generate enough energy in the class to be of much consequence. and too many of your movements will stimulate heart energy, to the exclusion of the other organs. if you were actually skilled at listening to your body, you would feel the disharmony in your movements and you wouldn't move the way that you do. and being a big guy is no excuse. i'm a big guy, but my movements are graceful, fluid, and, when appropriate--LIKE WHEN TEACHING OTHERS--exquisitely executed. beginners seldom pick up the subtleties of movement, but if the teacher doesn't have them to begin with... good teachers move in everyday life with a certain grace and balance. you can see some of their skill in even their most simple motions. look at a video of Jerry Alan Johnson or Bruce Kumar Frantzis. you have potential. there's no question there. but IMO you have no business teaching. you have a lot more learning to do, and you might want to start with UNLEARNING what you think you already have figured out. like the idea of eating a haphazardly generated energy ball to heal the digestive system? you really are lacking in even the very basics of qigong theory. you should share a list of the books and videos you've studied. you've either got the wrong material or you're missing too many important details that are right in front of you. there's a whole lot more to it than "here's a way that you can gather energy that you can feel." all energy is not created equal, but nothing you've shared here, including your form, demonstrates that you understand that. if you're lucky you'll get nowhere because you're not dealing with enough energy. otherwise, you could do some damage. there's plenty of good material out there for you to practice while you continue to learn. and maybe you can lead your friends through one of the medical qigong forms that are safe and easy to learn. then you can develop your skill in a safe way. also, if you start meditating daily, many of the elements you're missing will become self-evident. vipassana is great, and there's plenty of material available on it. i take my role as a teacher and healer very seriously. i have hundreds of books and videos, and i'm always refreshing my knowledge. but really, it only takes one or two good books & videos if you study them THOROUGHLY, but you've gotta have the right material and be willing to really, REALLY study that material. or one good teacher will do. thank you to those of you who were willing to express caution and/or disapproval. this was an instance in which it was necessary.

Grand Trinity hasn't been around here since about 07, but i wouldn't mind loaning you my copy if you like. it's fairly easy to learn. i memorized the whole form in about an hour. and with your experience, it should prove just as easy to digest. truthfully, i find it to be quite stunning when done well. it's a beautiful form. and once you have it memorized, be sure to add a natural flow element to it. experiment with how it speaks to you. of course, it would be great if you had a nice video to loan me in exchange? send me a message. i'll send it out monday if you give me your address.

Lin pretty much lays out his perspective on it in this thread: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/3871-reiki-tummo/ he may have posted a couple of other times, but this is pretty much the meat and potatoes of it, methinks. the whole thread is pretty good, actually. i think this was the thread that made me fall in love with SFJane.

you might need to be a little more clever with your search method. Sifu Lin has over 1,400 posts on this forum, not 82. you might want to look up my name in connection to reiki, because if i recall correctly, most of what he had to say took place in a discussion between he and i. and i think Vajrasattva (Santi) was a part of that discussion as well. Sifu Lin is one of my favorite people that i've ever met in this forum, and i have the highest respect for him, but i didn't find his take on reiki to be particularly compelling. it wasn't very detailed or involved. it was a relatively small discussion.

i haven't participated in a conversation around here in a while, but this might be a good one to explore. i don't think i've ever met anyone who actually desired death. people who commit suicide most often desire escape from suffering, and the see death as their only means. very different implications, i think. for me, understanding the processes of life and death and pleasure and pain, bring with them an understanding of the existence/construction of good and evil. i think it's an excellent query with which to embark upon an authentic (non-contrived) spiritual journey. one that doesn't necessarily look like all the typical external trappings of religion. i'm just throwing some stuff out here, in hopes of helping to get the conversation started.

...another HardLight video / discussion thread / intensive promo. his talk in Varanasi is definitely one of my favorites out of the few that are available on youtube. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hard Light Shaktipat Intensive led by Mark Griffin Los Angeles Meditation Intensive Saturday, September 18, 2010 Noon - 8 p.m. if you don't live in the area, you can join the event via HL's private streaming internet radio broadcast. See the HL calendar and shaktipat pages for further details. Hard Light Center of Awakening

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hard Light Shaktipat Intensive One Day Meditation Retreat led by Mark Griffin A Special Celebration of the Chöd Noon - 8 p.m. Pacific Palisades Women's Club 901 Haverford Ave. Pacific Palisades $135/$150 again, if you don't live in the area, you can join the event via HL's private streaming internet radio broadcast. See the HL calendar and shaktipat pages for further details. Hard Light Center of Awakening

THIS is probably the most important point that gets ignored the most often. keep in mind, blocked qi flow is the very definition of illness in Chinese medicine. if you wish to avoid any possibility of qi-sickness, FIRST clean the pipes, THEN fill the banks! you want to engage a cathartic practice like shaking, dropping post, or trembling horse. and you want a qigong set that incorporates a lot of stretching. also, look to some of the shaolin systems that employ bursts of tension and deep relaxation. your first goal should be to rid your body of all unnecessary tension/contraction, including in your breathing. there are lots of systems to choose from, but you want to stretch and open things up, and eliminate resistance in your system. let those qualities guide your decision making and you can't go wrong. yes! the key to meditating is to meditate. period. techniques don't mean squat if you never sit the hell down. LOL! i never sit for less than an hour every day. some days i do 3 or 4. not all in one sitting, but broken up into 2 or 3 sessions. if there's any secret to sticking with it, i would say it's to not take yourself too seriously. don't worry about quieting your mind. just stay vigilant about bringing your mind back to the present moment once you realize you've wandered off. when that happens, IT'S NOT A FAILURE. it's actually the job that IS meditative practice. look at each time your mind wanders as another opportunity to generate a little bit of discipline. like a mental push-up. the more times your mind wanders, the more push-ups you do. there is no failure. zhan zhang can be a difficult place to start if you're a newbie. it's easy enough to get right, but it's challenging and strenuous, so you might seek to avoid the practice after the first day or two. it's easier when you have a teacher encouraging you and holding you accountable. plus, it's good to have someone there to remind you to relax everything that you're not using to maintain posture. really easy to tense up. if you're a fairly disciplined individual, then go for it. it's really one of the best foundational practices out there. but if you can't even get yourself to sit down and meditate, then you might want to start with something more active. Chi Kung, The Way of Energy is a great book. but like always, i must first and foremost recommend my standard textbook for all of my new students: The Healing Promise of Qi by Roger Jahnke. great explanations, and lots of good basic exercises.

+1 i think i'll ride Seth's coat tails for a while before i jump into the conversation. but i'll offer this: it might be beneficial to consider the paradoxical union of Being AND Becoming. there is an Unborn, Undying, Unchanging, and there is also an evolutionary Universe. it's not easy to talk about it because it's necessarily irrational. Samsara is illusory. Nirvana alone is real. Nirvana IS Samsara.

hmm... i only chimed in because i thought this was going to be a discussion thread about the practices themselves. i'll at least say this much, though: he might be a great guy to meet, but it's certainly not necessary to learn something as basic as zhan zhuang from a master. i've made this analogy before a couple of years ago, but it's kind of like seeking out and olympic gold medalist to teach a P.E. class. it's just not necessary. you should be able to learn basic standing practices from any moderately competent teacher in your area, and it might save you a lot of money to do so. there are more advanced techniques that involve direct transmission from the teacher, but if that's not what he's offering, then you're pretty much going to get out of it what you put into it, and the level of the teacher isn't going to factor in a whole lot. you could learn this from a decent video. even from the book, if you're astute enough. but if you're a total novice, i STILL say you could learn it from a video.

sure. what about it?

Final reminder of the Shaktipat/Meditation Intensive being held this Saturday, September 18th, from noon to 8pm in Los Angeles. check the Hard Light calendar for details.

i know this is an old post and everything, but whatever. better late than never. sounds to me like you've got some very specific ideas about the concept of "guided meditation," as if they are all created equal. i assure you this is not the case. perhaps the most obvious example would be the practice of gTummo, a similar aspect of which is evident in JAJ's 1-10 practice. but gTummo certainly counts as a "guided" meditation, and i would argue that it most definitely CAN do much for you. there are guided meditations designed to gather energy and the lower, middle, and upper dantiens as well. if the hsing qi principle that energy follows thought holds true, then certainly the skillful use of the mind can be a powerful ally in cultivation. personally, i tend towards emptiness and non-visualization types of practices, but i do appreciate their efficacy. he was selling that book back in February. i would be surprised if he still had it. you might want to send him a private message to make sure he gets it.

um.... maybe. the individuals involved are ALWAYS more important than the techniques employed. i feel like my previous post already answers this question before you asked it, so... maybe you could clarify more specifically what you're asking? to be honest, the ONLY technique that IME has been consistently more effective (though not any "higher level") than others is the employment of multiple healers to work on a single client. the rest is pretty damn arbitrary, and i've done my homework, although you're welcome to hit me with as many questions as you like if you don't buy it. but as a general rule, the ability to heal, regardless of techniques used, is not a high-level endeavor. hence, why someone like Chunyi Lin can envision a world in which there is a healer in every family. his techniques are more effective than lots of other techniques out there, for a lot of people, but there's no high-level cultivation requirement. i'm not the only healer on this board. anyone else care to weigh in?

i gotta disagree there. it certainly doesn't hurt, but filling the dantien is NOT a requirement for qigong healing. healing is really basic, natural, and fairly low-level ability. open channels and proper intent are enough. the guy who started this thread has no training in filling the dantien, and yet he found that he was a natural healer. his ability kind of makes the point all by itself. there are a lot of theories surrounding this issue, and almost all of them are correct, and, therefore, none of them are true to the exclusion of the others. if you train to fill the dantien and then perform healing work using energy from the dantien, then that's how it'll work. not the most effective method, IME, but it'll work. if you store in the heart and project from there, that'll work, too. if you open up your body to be an instrument of the divine and allow healing energy to flow THROUGH you rather than FROM you, that works as well, and is safer than the first two methods. if you use visualization of spirit guides or whatever to do the work for you, that also works. and there are tons of other methods. for me, i stay open and intuitive to what might be required on a case-by-case basis. that works best for me, but others have very specific, tried and true methods that work for them. there is no one correct way to do any of this stuff. if you have a tradition then by all means, stick with it. but if you don't, then i would suggest that you not limit yourself with hard-line notions about how things work. better to remain open take the time to really discover for yourself. for whatever that's worth.

hey Red Tom, there are a number of healers/teachers here in this forum. if you're on your own, then i must agree with MPWay and Drew and suggest that you look into Spring Forest Qigong. the material is good and very easy to learn from. also really good is Ken Cohen's Essential Qigong Training Course. he teaches more classical/traditional material, whereas the Spring Forest Qigong system is more contemporary, innovative, and streamlined. Ken Cohen's material is more likely to match up with other books on qigong practice and healing, but if your sole concern is bettering yourself as healer, Spring Forest Qigong has more than enough for your needs, without all the history, theory, and stuff like that. but, if you're REALLY a hands-on type of person and need or prefer an in-person teacher, then it would help to know where you are located, and, of course, it would also help if you have the financial means to visit and to train with a teacher if one is recommended to you. as i said, there are a number of folks here who either accept students openly or know someone in your general area that might offer what you're looking for. btw, i would also have to agree with MPWay about persuing Mo Pai. it's not necessary, you're more likely to run into charlatans, and with the exception of John Chang himself (if you choose to believe he's the real deal), Mo Pai is not producing healers. and that's not what they're about, anyway. do you have any training or background in yoga, tai chi, or qigong? any spiritual training? anyway, good luck in your search. it's a wonderful and rewarding adventure. EDIT: Ken Cohen's training course. http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Qigong-Training-Course-Well-Being/dp/1591790905/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283369938&sr=8-5 Description: Now for the first time, qigong training is available in a comprehensive home-study curriculum. You will learn more than 70 qigong practices for harnessing the massive power of qi to create vitality, spiritual balance, and physical health. Complete kit includes: a 100-page, weekly workbook of original material that directs you step-by-step on this classical, life-changing course. Qigong DVD workout offers you a complete, 90-minute programmable workout. 5 audio CD training course covers every phase of qigong theory and practice. Qigong Healing DVD includes three hours of essential teachings and exercises to learn how to direct the healing qi energy to others effectively and safely. About the Author: Ken Cohen (Gao Han) is the Executive Director and founder of the Qigong Research & Practice Center. He is a world-renowned health educator, China scholar, and Qigong Master with more than thirty years experience. A former collaborator with Alan Watts, he is the author of the internationally acclaimed book, The Way of Qigong: The Art and Science of Chinese Energy Healing, best-selling self-healing audio and video courses, and more than 150 journal articles. His work has been translated into Chinese and numerous European languages. Professor Cohen is a leader in the dialogue between ancient wisdom and modern science. He was able to demonstrate unusual physiological control as one of 9 "exceptional healers" studied in the Menninger Clinic's Copper Wall Project. He has lectured at medical schools, scientific conferences, and numerous universities and is an Adjunct Professor at Union Institute Graduate School. His work has been featured in USA Today, Newsweek, Time, Bottom Line, and National Public Radio. He has taught more than 30,000 students. Spring Forest was already posted, and there's tons of material about it on this forum.

following cam's metamorphosis (or at least the parts he's choosing to share with us, for which i am grateful) has led me to want to make this topic. i don't want this to come across as a criticism of cameron, but i'm wondering what the general tao bum wisdom is regarding this matter. to me it seems like a gross misunderstanding of the purpose of spiritual cultivation to think that one can engage in high-level, wholly transformative practices, and still go on as one had before in everyday life. for me, an integral part of my pathworking has been to divest of unnecessary attachments to the matrix of cultural hypnosis so that when the time comes i will be able to ride the wave until the day i drown. i teach qigong and meditation. i do healing work. i used to have a little coffee shop job on the side to help make ends meet; now i don't even do that. my students and patients fully support me. i walked away from a full scholarship at a top-level college and some amazing research and scholarship opportunities because i felt that those aspirations were incompatible with what i feel is my true life's calling. it was painful at times because the unknown is scary, there's no guarantee that i will succeed in attaining the highest levels, and i felt pressure from friends who thought i was "throwing it all away." "What a waste." now i believe it was the best decision i ever made. i don't think what i chose to do is the right thing for everyone. but then i don't think that high-level cultivation is the right thing for everyone, either. i've experienced my share of physiological ups and downs as a result of my practice (from feeling invincible to dizziness and vomiting, and a whole spectrum in between), but i have consciously fashioned my life to be adaptable to the ebb and flow as i press forward and seek balance. for me, it's simply the only game in town worth playing. SO... if one has no intentions of giving up ones ties to the conventional/material, how practical is it for them to pursue realization of the Tao? profound transformation can not and should not be forced into a box, but rather it is we who should be breaking out of our boxes to accommodate profound reality. OR: is there some middle ground that can actually take one all the way? can high-level transmissions be congruent with someone who walks fairly evenly in both worlds? ...and again, i want to emphasize that i don't mean for this post to be a critique of cameron. he was the only tao bum to give us all a somewhat in-depth perspective of max and his abilities. it's because of cameron's posts that i decided to go ahead and commit to the SF workshop. i just want to know what others think. i'm very open to changing my mind about what i think.

really good advice! if you make yourself too structured, or too eager to "accomplish" something, you'll never get the full benefit of that experience. use some of that time to throw out the rule books and get to know YOU and YOUR NATURE a little better. i spent 4 1/2 months in Waimea Canyon back in 2004. as soon as a few things stabilize around here over the next year, i plan on doing another personal retreat in either Arizona or New Mexico. i'd be happy to offer you any advice if you have any specific questions. just PM me. but at the same time, you're only going out for like 3 1/2 days, so probably one of the best things you can do is take it as it comes. be safe, but not too safe. don't over-plan such a short trip, but don't try to make ridiculous hiking excursions, either. just enjoy yourself, and respect your limits.

the spirit of my inquiry wasn't really about finding truth elsewhere. it was more about coping in society while going through such radical changes that are spurred on by many hardcore cultivation practices. for instance, i have a very committed student who RIGHT NOW is going through some really intense anxiety/panic/childhood memory phases, and two things she's grateful for right now are that she doesn't need to hold down a job, and she has already raised her daughter. but she's plumbing the depths of some very long-standing traumas that she has never really faced before. 20 years ago this probably would have been enough to give her a breakdown, but at this phase in her life she's willing and able to work through it without any avoidance, and without it adversely effecting her social or financial standing in any way. she's got all of that stuff handled already. she also has these periods of expanded consciousness where she is totally out of her body and feels totally connected to all of life, and having to immediately come back from that to engage in 'ordinary' social conventions could prove to be trying if she were in the workforce or a homemaker with children to look after. the conventional western lifestyle is very rarely adaptable to this type of process without there being some significant disruption. and Cameron, the inspiration for my making the original post, was a good example at the time. he was manic and filled with ecstatic compulsion for days on end. he didn't sleep. he lost his job, which really sucked because he was working for his father! it seemed like he was posting a new thread topic every 10 minutes, and he seemed like he had to comment on EVERYTHING that was posted in every thread, even if his comment didn't fit. he eventually balanced out, of course, but it was definitely disruptive to his life at the time. anyway, that was the nature of why i posted the question. i'd still love to get more of your take on it if you're still up for sharing.

*bump. this is one of my earliest thread topics, and it seems to be as relevant today as it ever was. i would love to get some perspectives from some of the new people who weren't around in '07, or even some of the old-schoolers who might have new insights to contribute.

indeed. bones are piezoelectric, meaning when you apply stress to them, they generate electromagnetic fields. this is one reason why shaking practice is such a powerful activity and can accelerate progress without transmission. it's one reason, anyway. i would certainly recommend shaking practice. i think it's a lot less intimidating than weight-lifting or tree stance, and a lot less expensive than buying a weighted vest. just put on some music and shake & move. as you build strength, extend your time and increase your vigor. self-pace. bones respond to the demand that is placed on them. people lose bone density later in life primarily because they become more and more sedentary. shaking practice is a good way to get the juices flowing, AND to place greater demand on the skeletal frame at whatever level is comfortable for the individual. start light and easy, but just get moving. not knowing anything about the person in question, this would be my immediate recommendation. this and deep, relaxed breathing, which can eventually lead to body breathing. not only would the breathing stimulate energy in the areas of focus, but it will also stimulate greater alkalinity and oxygenation overall.

no one can really answer this without more information about your habits, general temperament, and lifestyle. however, as a healer, probably the first thing i would suspect would be kidneys/adrenals. it's a very common problem, but i don't know anything about you, so it's just a shot in the dark.