Cameron

For sure.

It's just the spirit of some people here..doesn't seem like the Kunlun system is for them.

No judgement, lots of paths to choose from. Hell my family is part Muslim and part Catholic. No Kunlun people there!

In any case, hope people find whatever it is they are looking for and actually can experience the fruit of there search. The arguing over this and that over years here..eh,, gross.

Later

I think you guys are all great, but perhaps too serious regarding Kunlun and Max.

My last word on all of this. If you want a serious path I don't think Kunlun or Max is your bag.

Plenty of serious paths out there to choose from. Pick one you like.

Later

Max is Max.

I don't care to change hime or demand he act anyway but himself. He is an amazing person. Who am I to say if he really has or hasn't experienced the many things I have heard him say?

I do like Kan's style and looking forward to training with him. He has had wild experiences as well that most people would probably consider flat out lies.

But you know what? I didn't sleep for 1 month after learning Kunlun. I dont think that is anything particularly special or anything. That's just what happened. Several of my friends who aren't into this stuff looked at me like I was crazy and didn't believe it. So I shut up about that.

Could you imagine being like Max and having these sort of wild experiences all the time and not talking about it? I agree you need to cultivate your wisdom and speak to the level of your audience. Developing wisdom along side "spiritual experiences" is essential.

I don't care to have crazy spiritual experiences without the wisdom foundation to back it up. If that means my progress might go slowerso be it.

It's a good point.

Max teaches other stuff like standing meditation and one breath. As well as stating clearly that the most important time is 20 minutes of closing down with hands over the navel after practice.

Also, Red Phoenix 2 brings the energy down very well.

I don't practice Red Phoenix by itself much myself. I find doing Yigong/Kunlun 1 by itself enough. But I feel The Red Phoenix pretty much all the time.

Level 1 is the upper tan tien part. Level 2 flows that energy through the entire body.

Anyway, if people are interested in Kunlun my humble suggestion would be just do the level spontaneous which is already very powerful and get Red Phoenix live from Max or Kan.

I'll see how Kan is doing it next week and post about it if there is something new/useful.

The more I learn the more I dislike comparing different teachers. For example, I could compare Max or Kan to a couple well known Qigong Masters I have trained with. But there isn't anything at all appealing to me in that myself.

The way I look at it now, if it's not for you it's not for you. Why critisize, judge and diss it? Why presume since something isn't for you it isn't the right way for someone else or incredibly helpful to someone else?

It's a big Universe, perhaps if something isn't for you and you hear others are enjoying it just moving along would be good?

There is a restaurant in Beijing that my friends like but everytime I eat there I get an upset stomach. Does it mean it's a bad restaurant or it's just bad for me?

Maybe spiritual teachers are like that and it's not a one size fits all situation?

Counting the days until Japan..

Jet Li is the man.

I visited Tianjin a couple weeks ago. If you ever saw the movie Fearless it's based in Tianjin.

Awesome movie with an awesome message..

I saw Eckhart Tolle live at UCLA 4 years ago. It wasa nice experience.

That said..I think that there is quite a difference between modern non dual teachers and Taoist Masters. I don't like to compare people but the Tao Master seems to just have a broader and more comprehensive understanding of awakening and can even initiate the process.

On the other hand, teachers like Tolle are great speakers. And express nicely what seems like the fruit of spiritual cultivation.

The "you don't need to do anything, be in the now always" is nice in theory. But modern people are plenty screwed up and we need lots of body/mind practice to get into that space.

Enter Tao, yoga, martial arts etc

I can't talk about it since Max said not to. He taught us a couple really cool practices and asked us to keep it to ourselves. They are variations of the basic practices but taken deeper.

The way I look at it, it's not that I got something no one else got. But each time I saw Max I just trusted he would help me with what I needed to go a little deeper.

Suffice to say, I never felt at all disappointed from any of my classes with Max.

I am looking at my class with Kan San next week as sort of my capstone Kunlun course. I am hoping it's the last time I will need to see any teacher for spiritual teachings. I have been running around all over the place and internet forums for almost 14 years. My cup is already been filled to the brim. I don't need more and more and more but less and less.

That is another reason I want to take a good break from posting here. It adds so much more unneeded stuff to my mind every time I come here(with some real helpful gems occasionally thrown in)

Best wishes from China and in your spiritual practices.

Nice, I have no idea you would have to ask her.

I only saw Jenny once. It was a great experience but probably won't again. I feel like I got whatever I was supposed to get from her and it was definitely worth the trip.

Anyway, these discussions can go on forever and I think I have finally exhausted all interest in them thank God!

If you find spiritual nourishment from interacting here that's great. If you find it becomes more of a burden/drain on you and your practice to interact here you should look at that too.

I don't find it particularly helpful myself, more of a distraction from the actual doing and living of my path. I don't owe anyone here anything and frankly outside of maybe two or three people on here who I consider close lifelong friends I don't have a clue who anyone here is outside some words on the screen.

Time for me to really let go of Tao Bums, enjoy yourself!

White Cloud Temple was nice

Lama Temple, Temple of Heaven and Forbidden City are my favorites. I think there is also a Temple of Earth I havent visited yet.

My friend asked me when we were there if I am a Taoist. I dont think it would be correct for myself to say I am Taoist. I feel Taoist teachings have had and continue to have a great influence on my life but Am I a Taoist is not a question I can say yes too.

Even Sifu Jenny who taught Max Yigong calls herself a Buddhist and that her favorite book is Nisargardatta Maharajs I AM THAT.

Max is connected with all kinds of stuff. Perhaps Shamanism which I suspect is the origin of Tao and not Temple Taoism. But even then am I a shaman..no.

I just view myself as a curious modern person who is interested in many things. What will be interesting to see is what aspects of Taoism, Buddhism, Shamanism etc stays into the future.

My favorite thing I heard from Sifu Jenny was to let what comes come let what goes go.

Take care and see you in 2013 where I suspect the world will still exist lol.

Cam

OK, seriously dude, every single post is your "last post", and not just on this thread...

Lol

I could deny it except it's true!

I guess I just felt some level of involvement with Kunlun and the Bums. But really I don't think it had much to do with me.

Ahhhh, going to visit the White Cloud Temple for the first time today. Enjoy your Taoist discussions on the way. I'll pop in again sometime next year to learn more from you guys.

namaste

A final word I think for myself it's good to take a break from Tao Bums to distance myself from the drama.

For example, here I am having a great day, I check out Tao Bums and read someone writing that Max supposedly "stole" methods from Sifu Jenny.

Doesn't do much to help my practice one iota.

Talk to you in 2013.

You still here LOL

Wishing you eternal spring

Ahhh the wisdom of the old ones

Logging off until 2013.

Be well!

That's cool.

For myself, my path only, it would be dishonest not to admit I have been heavily influenced by my Aikido teachers.

I am not doing Aikido anymore, I may go back at some point who knows(As I live in China now probably a good chance I'll commit to IMA at some point).

Anyway, something one of the highest Aikido teachers said was that learning was structured into 3 phases. Which he described as shu, ha, ri.

The first stage is a period of self negation. Essentially following what your teacher tells you. Shut up and practice etc. After a period of time, you enter the next stage of ha which is self affirmation. Then the final stage of Ri is transcendence of the self/other duality, teacher student becomes interchangeable and you have achieved some level of "mastery".

Looking at my understanding of Max's path, he trained with his Maoshan Sifu for 3o years in the first stage. Then after learning Yigong from Jenny he entered the second stage of breaking away and creating his own system.

So, if a practitioner like Max, who is light years ahead of myself, spent 30 years not saying too much publically and mostly training, who am I with my pathetic accomplishments to give so many opinions to strangers on the internet?

Be well.

A last final word on Kunlun specifically.

I think it's great we have this community to share(or argue) about this stuff. I actually don't see it as a bad thing at all. It's all part of the process of sharing wisdom east to west and west to east.

The only place I hesitate and yes I am going to say it once again(sorry Joeblast) is commenting too much on other peoples path without really knowing.

See, people on Tao Bums are each doing their own path to Tao. I don't have any opinion if anyone path to Tao is better then anyone else or more true then anyone else. To be honest I am still in somewhat in a state of shock how many people get entangled in right and wrong and what is the correct path to Tao. This is nothing new it has been the sad story since day 1 of my internet Tao search which began almost 14 years ago.

Respect is important. In the Kunlun way basically Max and Kan are the people I look to for advice. Not that other students have nothing to say but I don't really go by what students have to say for my actual practice.

To give you a specific example, the last time we spoke Max told me I should practice 4x a week and no practice 3x a week. He knows me and my issues and can give clear advice to help guide me to the goal of his system.

When I saw Kan San a few years ago he gently waived his arms close to me for maybe one minute and my qi channels felt like the were going to explode open for over an hour afterwards. It was like an intense pressure was being put on all my blocks. This will be probably my last Kunlun seminar so seeing Kan San is really like me trying to find the best most accurate suggestion and help for my path without then having to run around to different teachers again.

To me, the goal is not to run around forever chasing different teachers and experiences but live your art. Then just get to the point where every day life is so beautiful and meaningful.

"Less is more." to quote Chris from the book.

Ahhhh..Red Phoenix..

This is sort of a tricky question for me.

All of the transmissions I got from Max were powerful. But the last one I got in Hawaii was another animal.

It was/is another level of Red Phoenix 1.

Apparently, it was only taught to our group(not that we are special or anything) and we were asked to keep it to ourselves.

There is a lot I could say on it. But don't feel comfortable to do so since Max specifically asked us not to.

If there is anything for me to add after Japan I will. If not just pop in occasionally and listen to you guys.

Be well.

I think that Tao Bums is good stuff.

It's just time for me to move on and really live my art. For me, everything that needed to be said has been said.

I basically just started posting here again since Facebook isn't readily available in China lol.

Anyway, I wish you all well on your path.

Cameron

(Quote from Sensei Enkyo O'Hara)

 

We all want to idealize our teachers. We want to idealize enlightenment, and we want to idealize ourselves.

What happens is that we set things up so that there is enlightenment, and there's this teacher who's going

to give it to us, and that teacher has to be perfect, and we have to be perfect. And of course, that makes it

almost impossible for us to practice, to have genuine compassion for ourselves and for others. The fact is,

we're all human. And, enlightenment does not bestow perfection. There's no such thing as perfection.

That's not really true for myself.

I don't idiolize any of my teachers.

I guess the way I see it..comparea high level "spiritual" teacher do a surgeon or something. They have spent decades learning, practicing, then teaching their path.

I know all of my teachers have human flaws and are not perfect. But, just like I am not going to do heart surgery on anyone any time soon, I also don't want to talk to people too much about spiritual awakening anytime soon.

I consider myself a total noob btw. my 10+ years of on again/off again practice is nothing special. So I think being honest and humble about who you are is not always bad.

But if you think you are doing good work posting on Tao Bums please carry on. I speak only for myself not anyone else..

To clarify a bit more.

Do any of us REALLY KNOW what is the difference between Rainbow Body, GDB, Taoist Immortality, the Non Dual awakening of Advaita Vedenta, the Satori of Zen Masters, the alchemical wisdom of ancient Egypt?

Do we REALLY know.

Adyashanti said something I like a lot once. Someone in the audience said that they were pretty certain that 9/11 was an inside job. Adyashanti asked " Do you really know?" The man said "I feel very strongly it was."

Adya said " Let me rephrase the question. Let's say I have a sword. If you get the answer wrong I cut your head off. Now do you really know?"

"If you put it that way then I don't know." the guy answered.

My interest in talking about spirituality is like that now. I don't even want to speak about the matter until I really know. I am not interested in giving anyone advice unless I really know.

No theories, no opinions about my teachers or other peoples teachers, nothing.

If I really, really feel that I know at some point I might be drawn to say something. If not I won't.

Be well

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.

I am not saying people on Tao Bums aren't already potential Buddhas.

I wholeheartedly beleive in what Buddha said we are all already Buddhas.

What I have issue with is the constant comparing different teachers attainments and even close disciples of different Masters being misrepresented, haviing there words twisted etc.

You see, this is not really a Sangha. It's a bunch of people with different teachers and lineages giving their opinions about things.

I feel comfortable doing the same in every other field of human development except this one. It's an area I prefer not to even speak about at all until I really, really, really, really, really know.

Peace.

Are you addressing me?

No,not you Scotty

This is my last post on here. I am pretty clear what this place is now and I want no more part of it.

To sum up my over 10 years experience on Taoist chat rooms.

Finding a teacher/path and doing it=good.

Wasting time on the internet with un awakened students who most likely are misrepresenting there own teachers=bad.

Goodbye.

Ashhhebaal, sheebal, sheebal, shebal.

I am listenting to a wonderful dharma talk by Adyashanti right now and what he is saying is pretty much lining up to exactly what I experience on Tao Bums.

There appears to be two orders of "spiritual" communication. Endless speculating, arguing, intellectual debates(not interesting to me) and then actually doing your practice and direct inquiry(interesting to me).

Your life is short, do you want to endlessly speculate and argue or do your practice and find out your truth for yourself then live it(I want the latter not the former).

Also, I just got a PM from someone saying there teacher says XYZ about Max and Kan and what do I think yada yada.

I have no interest if anyones teacher thinks they are more advanced then Max or Kan. If they are great, more power to you.

I am pretty certain that I AM NOT MORE ADVANCED THEN MAX OR KAN and don't expect I will be, well, anytime soon. So I have no opinions about other awakened teachers. I don care who they are and what they can do.

I am happy to hear that someone finds a teacher that they find helpful My only advice follow what your teacher says and get awakening.

Pretty much anything outside of actually helping people get awakening is boring to me. There are plenty more entertaining people then spiritual teachers if what you want is entertainment. Go watch movies, play PS3, XBOX, get a girlfriend/boyfriend, go to a concert, bunjee jump, hike, snowboard etc.

Later