Anabhogya-Carya

Do you bottle and sell it?

To a extent. I still think the ideas of positive and negative themselves, as ideas, are relative, regardless of outcomes.

\m/

So karma for you is just the elements in cause and effect. If I understand you correctly you are saying it is neutral (i.e. not good nor evil). If you are saying this than I agree, if not than that is my position.

If you assume karma exists of course.

It is easy to ignore criticism if you claim the critical parties lack understanding.

That was dogmatic and ignorant. You have a superiority complex. And did you ever consider that living as long as you possibly can is not a unconditional good? Maybe a life of self sacrifice to the poor trumps living for long as you possibly can. There is an infinite number of instances that affect our health, it is not constrained to daily "cleansing." If you actually practiced Taoism maybe you would be more humble and wiser. I think all religions have something to offer, do not just discount one because it does not satisfy your close minded training of a monolithic standard of living well.

You begin by pointing the potential relitivity of morality and 'good' and 'bad', and you continue on making unsubstantiated assertions about an independent standard of 'good' and 'bad.' You have proven nothing, you have just given your definition of good and bad. It seems that you think that suffering=bad, and while this may very well be the origin of the word, it does not imply a metaphysical truth. Nor is it necessarily true across the spectrum of human experience. 'Good' and 'bad' are words, and like many words the connotations vary greatly. And then you go on to make the ridiculous and manipulative claim that anyone who does not agree is fooling themselves and is lacking in an understanding of nature. If you in fact had an elementry understanding of any epistmological theory you would see that your assertions, claims, and manuscripts hold little water. Do not bottle yourself up and reject all other possibilities without reasoning out your own first.

It has things to do with all the other eastern traditions. Beyond that I do not know. It is a symbol of good luck and welcome, could have something to do with it.

Are you saying what I asked is not valid? I was trying to get him to look at what he thinks he KNOWS. Believing and reading about it is not knowing. I did not think my comment was mocking. And listen (your logic at work here) if you don't like what I say stop responding to it. You only will facilitate further discussion. He comes out saying that he knows one can be immortal, I would like to know how he knows. Maybe I will word it better next time so I don't annoy your sensitive self. Furthermore, he said he knows not that he believes.

How do you know that? How many celibate immortals have you met?

Tons of these mass produced objects are for sale in the china town near my house. Made by underpaid workers in giant factories, imbued with the magic of the ages......apparently.

those pictures of refracted light over his head (two of them, i wonder how many he took that do not have light in them....) have me convinced..... ghost hunter websites say they are ghosts, this max says they are spiritual presence, photographers say they are light refraction or scewed exposures, who to believe? I would say the self proclaimed buddha

Is he some kind of cultivation celeberity this Max character?

Yes, of course it was not a revealed text and it was built on a long tradition, but I was refering specifically to Mak Tin Si saying that Fu before the emergence of the distinct tradition of Taoism is evidence of Taoism. He was saying that Taoism existed before because Fu did and Taoism exists today and it has Fu in it.

It seems to me that Hin-yuen-wong-di may very well be the creator of Fu and Juk-Yau-Foh. But that is not evidence of Taoism prior to any of the core texts. It is evidence of the practice of Fu and etc. which was later incorporated into the tradition of Taoism in its move to a more user friendly, mass practice. An element that was incorporated into Taoism later yet developed earlier is not evidence of Taoism as a tradition prior to Lau Tzu, Chuang Tzu, etc. Yule and Sol invictus were incorporated into Christianity, but Yule and Sol Invictus are not evidence of Christianity prior to Christianity.

Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you said? But I do agree to an extent. I should not let it bother me so much. Thanks.

Pay up now, be protect from the planets. Wear a piece of paper and you will be safe from Jupiter. Look, we even have mathematical percentages to prove just how much danger you are in from the planet Jupiter.

Yes, forgive my ignorance O great slayer of demons. baby steps maybe, but baby steps unspoiled with your dogma and superstision. Baby steps leading in the right direction not to the direction of ghosts, temples, demons, and magic.

I do not think it is pretty much all garbage. The wordiness and jargon does not mean there is no value of certain philosophies. Of course unvalidated conclusions have been made and there are failings of logic throughout (Descartes for example) but it does not annhilate the value of the whole. And after stating the failings of having opinions you say something so generalized. Otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. Every history of Taoism I have ever read emphasizes how devoid it was of religion until it started becoming fused with the beliefs of the peasents.

How can you all be so blind! Don't you know! Mak Tin Si is the avatar of true Taoism! What you have left is a metaphysical and epistomological base. These things you mention are just more practices, things that people think will help them reach something. They quiet the mind and focus the body, but they to not have to have all the mystical and religious strings attached to them. They can exist are purely psycological and philosophical. I do not think anyone has the final word on the Tao and to think that the TTC or the Chuang Tzu are anything more than interpretations of the Tao themselves is foolish. Maybe even the Tao is foolish, but it does not die, because there is something within the philosophy, something that is true, maybe no one has pin pointed it yet, hence the vagueness of the texts. Thus it is open to continued refinement. How is his interpretation abuse? How do you know that yours is not abuse? It also does not make it not the universal truth either. Both are possible.

Yes of course, because sex dreams are evil right? they could not possibly be normal! GASP. And having dreams of being attacked? of course, those are evidence of a demon, because your sub-conscious could not possibly formulate a scenerio where you get attacked. All the DMT racing through your brain and the rapid motion of your eyes plus the firings of your sub-conscious and the events of the day could not add up to a sexual dream or a dream in which you are attacked, therefore, blessed be your infalliable wisdom Mak Tin Si, it must be a demon. My own fantasy? You say I am living in a fantasy because I do not think dreams are evidence of demon possession? I think it is you who is living a lie, you satisfy your ego by believing you are something great, something magical and a holder of something esoteric. I don't give a damm what your peasent religion taught you, whose views are based on a time of great ignorance of the workings of the world. Did you recieve your entire education from some Magical Taoist Temple? Just how many demons have you seen? Could it not be you and your followers who mistake natural occurances for something supernatural. Or maybe it is some major psychological failing on your part? Ever consider that? Of course you didn't! That would make you doubt your god-given powers and the close minded teachings you have inherited. I am open to just about anything, but that does not mean I will accept a blind belief of somebody who has so much evidence against them. Prove to me the existence of demons and I will take up your FU gladly. What is next? Taoist televangelism? "FEEL THE LIGHT OF THE TAO! I CAST YOU OUT DEMON" *man shakes violently on stage* *foolish crowd claps* *foolish crowd gives money to the man on stage*

the demon will never possess you, no matter how you feel when you wake up.

I have been searching for that same thing for a long time now. Thinking of just starting my own one day if I can't find one.

Well I was not trying to convert or preach. But if i had that much influence than I am glad. And no I am not Indian. I am north america, but I do have an huge interest and fascination in India and Hinduism, hence the name. And yes, I posted on the ALF website maybe about 3 times, I have not gone back since as I found some of the stuff useful and insightful but most of it reactionary and uninformed. Nonetheless, I am glad I had an impact.. And yes, this thread should get back to its original purpose.