Tao99

Hmm OK. If I were to debate this point at some sort of conference, I would politely propose: Taoist master Liu I-Ming found his first Tao teacher when he was 17. He then wandered all over China his entire life moving from one Taoist teacher to another in his single-minded quest for the Tao. Finally, in his 80's - after 63 years of learning and practicing - he wrote his magnum opus, Awakening to the Tao. So we can be sure that this master of the Tao described it as he knew it, and if he knew it some other way, he would have described it that way. So how did he describe the Tao? "The Tao is not apart from virtue." What does this mean? If the Tao is not apart from virtue, then logically where there is the negative, the opposite class of virtue, there is not the Tao. Why? Because then it would be apart from virtue, being in the opposite non-virtue, negative class. As a supporting citation I would point to #42 of the Tao Teh Ching, Chan translation: "Tao produced the One. The One produced the two. The two produced the three. And the three produced the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things carry the yin and embrace the yang, and through the blending of the material force they achieve harmony. " So the Tao produces the achievement of harmony, which is positive and not negative, so it's result is something positive, and not the negative. But Liu I-Ming's phrase makes it most clear by saying the Tao is not apart from virtue, and so clearly is not where there is the opposite. the negative.

From THE TRUE TAOISM Thread: Buddha - someone who has attained enlightenment. The only way to read this is that you are claiming you are a Buddha. Have you quickly attained enlightenment? Are you claiming you are a Buddha? Talk about sowing doubt. You tell others to shut up and lay low yet you not only wordily wax about your own Buddhism but about other's Taoism. Shouldn't you be following your own advice and lay low to keep thing authentic? Or are you about to die? PS If you claim you are a Buddha, and since you imply you have something important to teach Mak Tin Si and I "under strict conditions" please give us your summary gatha for verification. Feel free to be as obscure as you like. Thank you for your time ... and your blessings. PSS "cut off afflictions and end birth and death or one will never be free" is a Buddhist formulation having a Buddhist meaning. It's not a Taoist formulation. My concern is that people will read phrases like this that you put in threads about the Tao, and they will think they have learned something about Taoism instead of Buddhism thus confusing them. May I suggest you begin such formulations with "In Buddhism ..."

Cute girls on Tao Beach The simple, free going good life With teh on their minds ...

This thread begins on a day with the bloody extermination of 200 people in India. And you are saying the Buddhist moral of the story is "Who gives a sh*!" Correct me if I'm wrong for I am not a Buddhist, but I think I just heard the Buddha roll over in his grave. I know the Taoist immortals are cracking up in their pristine Taoist heavens. PS The Tao was spawned by the Yellow Emperor and the followers of the Tao he met in the mountains who taught him and it was completely a health practice. Naturally over 1000s of years there was going to be those who misunderstood, misapplied, and misused it.

Agreed. What concerns me is the common attempt around here to convert the Taoist doctrine/Taoists into the Buddhist doctrine. This can't be done. I practice the philosophy of live and let live, you go your way and I will go mine. I have no interest in telling Buddhists they are wrong for believing differently then me. As long as we both have basic virtue, it makes no interactive difference on this shared planet.

The quote from Liu I-Ming uses the term "virtue" and it is he who is doing the schooling. If someone doesn't even know what's in that quote about the Tao, they don't have a clue what the Tao is. He's a Buddhist and that I have no interest in questioning. But Tai Chi and Chi Kung are only tangentially "Taoist" and miss 90% of what Taoism is. It's not about developing some sort of wizards power as said above. An immortal is not some sort of an energy wizard with magic powers that can be used for evil in an evil Taoist heaven. That's just sad.

Philosophy is a system of knowledge about the world, human conduct, etc. Religion is a set of beliefs and practices involving the sacred and/or the supernatural. The Tao has been transmited as both a philosophy and religion. Once again, maybe you are describing Buddhism, but you are not describing the Tao.

Dude this is foul and insulting to a real Taoist. You are again mixing Buddhist dosctrine up with Taoist doctrine, and completely misunderstanding the Tao in the process. You need to stick to describing Buddhism and leave the Tao to the Taoists because even the most rank beginner students of the Tao know: The Tao is not apart from virtue (Teh) and virtue is not apart from the Tao. Those who would practice the Tao, must first bring about virtue. Liu I-Ming, Awakening to the Tao Please stop trying to make Buddhism and Taoism out to be the same philosophy. They have fundamental differences that can't be reconciled just because you want to be a part of the Tao. To mix them is to lose the essence of the Tao and change its very meaning and purpose. If you want to teach Buddhism go ahead but don't try to convert Taoists in an underhanded way by blatantly changing our doctrine to match yours. Taoists on this site seem to remain open and neutral to other's beliefs, but you and some other Buddhists seem to want to make everyone Buddhist. Why are you so insecure in your way that you have to constantly try to convert the Tao to your Buddhism? The above quote shows you don't know the first thing about the Tao, because instead of hearing it, you are constantly trying to change it into your Buddhist way. Please stop, it's blatantly obvious to serious Taoists.

I hope you will take this criticism with an open heart, but - if I may please correct you - this is an ugly, rookie misunderstanding of Taoism. Taoist Immortals are by definition fully realized spirit beings, whether they are heavenly or earthly immortals. If a person behave as you describe then they are by definition not an immortal, but a misnamed fraud. All heavenly beings in Taoism are immortals and it's a place that by definition contains none of the poisonous elements of earth. To make the Taoists heavens out to be another earth is grotesque to a Taoist. This is equivalent to me calling your Buddha bad, demonic, and evil, and I don't think this would leave you speechless, but would get me widely condemned and criticized on this website. So I'm sure you will understand my concern, being a Taoist.

This got me thinking. Taoism began around three thousand years ago. All this time patrons have been supporting the temples and the work of the temples and schools to keep the Way alive and written down for future generations. And here we are 3000 years later, students of the Tao, benefactors of their generosity and love for the Tao, who without it, couldn't discover the Tao on our own if our life depended on it. I'd say we should be thanking them and that there IS merit in their generosity. So from me a great big THANK YOU to all those generous Chinese patrons of the Tao all those 1000's of years. YOU ROCK!

You might be referring to the "pinching" of the spine or certain "pressing" techniques. In Taoism there are 100's of techniques, some primary, some auxialliary, and some on an if needed basis. For what you are looking for it's probably best to formulate just the basic primary Taoist (chi) meditation for purifying and circulating the chi as outlined earlier, and from this alone you will get the result you are looking for. Some of those other techniques can be harmful id done wrong and require a teacher. However the basic Taoist chi meditation is safe, non-religious (can be practiced by anyone of any religion) and good for health, tranquility, and living in harmony with the natural environment.

Yang means the sunny side of the mountain and yin means the shady side of the mountain. Their prime general usage is as active and passive, and in Taoist meditation they their usage is as advance and withdraw, hard and soft and positive and negative. Using them as metaphors for men and woman causes confusion and misunderstanding For example, Liu I-Ming says "According with the time, know when to advance or withdraw." Would it make sense to say: know when to be a man or a woman? No. I'm not a woman I'm just a man. It doesn't make rational sense to read it this way. Liu I-Ming: "The yin and yang in the human being are originally combined into one energy." Does this mean that there is a man and a woman in the human being? No. I'm just a man, capable in equal measure of advancing and withdrawing as required, and I'm not in some way defined by either. It doesn't make rational sense to read it this way.

No problem, I like discussing it. As I learned Taoist inner alchemy (meditation) the tongue touches (the middle of) the pallet and I've never heard of squeezing the muscles to drive the chi in the channels. I have heard of squeezing (tightening) and releasing the muscles before you begin, to bring on deep muscle relaxation. Maybe others have other methods. It's a good idea to remember your purpose for extending your practice. If you are looking to learn to transform chi into jing (inner power), maybe like the martial artists do it, to drive it into the muscles and release it as physical force (li) then chi kung maybe what you are looking for. In Taoist meditation (the chi cultivation part), the mind is quieted, the body is relaxed, the breathing is diaphrammatic, and the spirit attention is detached from the external, and concentrated on the flow of chi in the channels, to naturally produce a state of pure tranquil chi. Taoists believe that this purified chi is good for health and longevity, and preventing and even curing ailments. Now you might say how could that be possible? But modern scientific research has shown that the mind can negatively impact the body causing sickness. In science this harmful mental state is called the stress response, which some believe is the Western equivalent of the Taoist's polluted chi. And it's opposite curative state is called the relaxation response, which is just the Western scientific term for purified chi. FROM http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/69938.php --- The consequences of chronic stress can be serious. An extensive body of research suggests that long-term stress, with its flood of stress hormones, can increase risk for many physical disorders, including stroke, gastrointestinal problems, high levels of "bad" LDL cholesterol, sleep disturbance, immune suppression, impotence, asthma, and premature aging. Chronic stress, especially in people with high hostility levels, can lead to higher risk for insulin resistance, a precursor to type 2 diabetes, according to a study published in the October 2006 issue of the journal Psychosomatic Medicine. Long-term stress can cause cognitive and mood problems as well: confusion, poor concentration, poor memory, depression, anxiety, anger and irritability are often linked to chronic stress. But research has shown that certain stress reduction techniques can effectively eliminate these problems, according to Herbert Benson, MD, Director Emeritus of the Benson-Henry Institute (BHI) for Mind Body Medicine of Massachusetts General Hospital. "The harmful effects of stress can be mitigated," says Dr. Benson. "You can do this on your own, simply by harnessing protective mechanisms that are part of the relaxation response the physiological opposite of the stress response. "The relaxation response is a physical state of deep rest that changes your physical and emotional responses to stress. It decreases your metabolism, rate of breathing, heart rate, and blood pressure, and relaxes your muscles. There are a number of ways to achieve the relaxation response. A generic technique we teach at the BHI has two essential aspects the repetition of a word, phrase, prayer, or sound; and the disregarding of thoughts that come to mind, with a return to repetition." "These techniques are very effective in reducing stress," says Dr. Benson, "and they work especially well when coupled with efforts to adjust your attitudes and reactions to challenges in a way that promotes resiliency. For example, working to eliminate negative attitudes and focus on positive outcomes seeing the glass as half full rather than half empty can help you strengthen your ability to cope with stress and rebound from it. So it turns out the Taoists were onto to something real and important for health with their chi refinement and circulation, as well as their mental attitudes towards daily living as Lui I-Ming so clearly described. Liu I-Ming describes this part of Taoist meditation poetically like this: Use a quiet mind as the place you rest your spirit. Tuning breath, breath and mind merge, spirit and energy unite, and refined chi flows. Here's one recent study: Yoga And Meditation Change Gene Response To Stress 02 Jul 2008 Research from the US suggests that mind body techniques like yoga and meditation that put the body in a state of deep rest known as the relaxation response, are capable of changing how genes behave in response to stress ... http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/113735.php

Diaphragmatic breathing is usually advised for chi refinement. Reverse breathing is mostly used for martial art purposes I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragmatic_breathing

You're right the "natural breathing method" is to breathe in to move the Chi up the back channel, and exhale to move it down the front channel. Some also teach the reverse breathing method for certain training, purposes. I use the natural method exclusively, for alchemical purposes. http://www.kheper.net/topics/Taoism/circul...n_of_light.html has good pics of the channels.

Here's a good, useful, elementary description of the Taoist practice: TAOIST MEDITATION: MICROCOSMIC ORBIT MEDITATION http://1stholistic.com/Meditation/hol_medi...n_tao_orbit.htm But please to always remember: The Tao is not apart from virtue (Teh) and virtue is not apart from the Tao. Those who would practice the Tao, must first bring about virtue. Liu I-Ming, Awakening to the Tao

You are mixing Buddhism into Taoism and in the process completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting Taoism. This happens a lot on this website. Why do Buddhists here seem so hell bent on converting Taoists to Buddhism. Above you said you "tap into the 4 elements". In Taoism there are 5 "elements" wu xing, the five agents, and you don't tap into them, you harmonize them. You say Liu I-Ming says the"dantien method" is a lower method. That is a gross misunderstanding: "... from beginning to end, doing and not doing, culling medicine and working the fire, crystallizing the pill, and freeing it from the matrix - the Tao is not to be left for a moment." Liu I-Ming You say you don't know much about (Taoist) philosophy, and want me to define the basic terms for you: "If you do not understand the celestial mechanism, stop spouting off in front of people." Liu I-Ming Since you don't understand these basics, you should stick to describing Buddhism, and leave describing Taoism to the Taoists.

He obviously knows like most studied Taoists what dantien is, as he mentioned its use in tai chi. Why are you always so superiorly negative and damning? You speak with such certain and superior authority around here, but you never heard of this? The exposed ignorance is yours. Saying "there is no need to develop and store chi" is probably the funniest thing I've ever heard on a Taoist forum.

good question spirit ape. Ah yes the elixir fields. What would Taoism be without its Dan Tiens. Surely not Taoism anymore. Furnace, cauldrons, meridians, spirit released from the matrix, I sit and forget.

You should show some respect and neutrality for a person's religion and religious practices. That is the Tao. It this a Taoist website? It sure doesn't seem it. So Taoism believes in the self-spirit and heavens and gods. Get over it. If you don't like Taoism, go your own way, we don't care. But don't snipe about someone's religious practices. Because for us, that is not following the Tao. Did you even know that gods are mentioned in the Tao Te Ching? And spirit? As well as in many Taoist schools? Feng/English Translation - 4 The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used, but never filled. Oh, unfathomable source of ten thousand things! Blunt the sharpness, Untangle the knot, Soften the glare, Merge with dust. Oh, hidden deep but ever present! I do not know from whence it comes. It is the forefather of the gods. This means that even the gods including the supreme God follows the Tao, which is the one, universal way of essence and life.

20 translations of Tao Te Ching here. Read Chan's. It's the best IMO: http://www.wayist.org/ttc%20compared/all_translations.htm Amazon has good books Awakening to the Tao (Liu I-Ming), Taoist Meditation (Cleary)

For the Taoist way of life and practices you might want to check out Taoist Meditation, translated by Thomas Cleary. There is a chapter in it called Treatise on Sitting Forgetting. Sitting Forgetting is more of a culminating practice after the fundamental transformational work has been done, and a preliminary practice, before it is done. You can get an idea of the fundamental practice, from this quote from the book: Taoist Master Shouyang said: Congeal the spirit on the ground of the gateway of life, aware but not fixated, conscious of it at first, then afterward forgetting it. Empty the mind and solidify the spirit, not sticking to physical form, yet not falling into empty oblivion. With open awareness undimmed, consciously nurture silent shining. As long as you sense your breath is gentle, and feel empty and clear, this is the correct practice of solidifying the spirit and attaining transformation.

Greetings fellow Tao treader. Your English is fine. No worries. I agree it lies within: The Tao is close and convenient. There is no need to seek afar, for it is right at home. The Tao is centered and straight. To practice the Tao, rely on worthy action. Without virtue (Te) in action, it is impossible to become a sage. Use a quiet mind as the place you rest your spirit. Tuning breath, breath and mind merge, spirit and energy unite, and calm serenity flows. Liu I-Ming, Awakening to the Tao