gossamer

Up, down, contact! As I crank the propeller, one more time, We'll fly out of this place, this club for squatters. Up, up, and further up..... into the blue.

I find myself wondering why it's ALWAYS the people who SAY that they "follow" a certain 'God', that are always so mean. He said NOT to judge, but what's ALWAYS the first thing that they do? One guess...........or two? I find myself thinking that it's easier to live without such a personal kind of 'Transcendent Being', and it's a real pisser to deal with those who SAY that they are "followers" of said Transcendent Being. I try hard to not judge others, but only because I don't want them judging ME. It seems like anyone who claims to be "a follower" has got some pretty hard point to make, and usually someone gets hurt, before the point is made. It's so much easier to understand Dao, then it is anything else. Dao seems to have no particular point to make, and it's not wanting to hurt anyone. It stands out of The Way when we are stupid, and seems to bow down, to let us learn. Dao does not justify itself, or tell me that I'm doomed, if I don't believe in it. It in fact, seems to understand happiness, and just Being, as perhaps the most important things. Dao seems to know if we're having a bad day, and in subtle and unseen ways, Dao moves us to a better place. Dao doesn't beat us with a book, or a set of rules, it just lifts us, to a more refined place. People who love rules and domineering ways, aren't drawn to Dao, nor it to them, it seems. When the day is long with hurt and minutes seem hours, Dao just waits till I pay attention, to soothe me, once again. I wonder how to share my little universe with those who seem intent on my unhappiness, and once again, I realize that I DON'T HAVE TO. Give them a brush and a can of paint, and put them in a corner. As long as you leave me alone, I believe that we can get along. I wish you no ill, nor hurt to your person, even if that's how you work. You say that your God justifies all that you do. Oh yeah? I've heard THAT ONE before. I think that I'll believe in Dao anyway, it doesn't NEED my belief, nor does it threaten me if I choose NOT to believe in it. It was there before all the gods, even YOURS, imagine that? There's a place that you missed in the corner.

I'm a MALE. I think that LOOKING at a female and thinking that she has a nice body, and that I find her attractive, is just a part of Dao. It's the Yin Yang thing, it's part of who WE REALLY ARE. Now, if I develop a plan to go and somehow try to meet this female to have sex with her, THAT'S *LUST*. We are who we are, and in Dao we become who we become, and handling energy is all a part of this. Tell me that any man here does NOT KNOW just when he is "lusting". Come on, I've lived 57 years now, and I know the ins and outs of being a man. SO DO YOU! Peace, gossamer

Dear Stigweard, I know that I'm coming in late on this thread, but I've been on Taoist/Daoist forums on and off for years now, and this is perhaps the best discussion of Virtue ('te' or 'de'), that I've ever read. I've valued everyone's point of view here, but I must say Stig, that you seem to have learned from Master Ni, how to become a true Taoist. I can feel Dao in your words, and in your spirit that you relate to other people with. I'm truly not trying to stroke your ego here either, I intend to go and copy this whole four pages of dialog about Virtue, and save it as 'a document'. And I really enjoyed the story by Gandhi's grandson as well! So well told, and it shows how to deal with error in a truly Compassionate but firm, way. Right on, say I!! Thank you everyone for your input here, I've REALLY enjoyed this thread! Peace to you all, gossamer

I'll show you WHY: http://www.thetaobums.com/Another-One-On-M...fare-t7127.html It's on page 6 (six) here at 'Tao Bums Forums'. Peace, gossamer (Who is 57 years old, TODAY! :-) I missed why there is an issue here about ill-will towards oneanother - but on a healing thread I agree it may be an issue that can be addressed as an illness would be...

I remember something that 'Lame Deer' said: "The BEST VISIONS come from YOUR OWN JUICES!" Just a thought from someone who has been there, and done that thing, that you are interested in. Peace, gossamer

Dear Stigweard, Look, I came here for HELP, and I'll work on my attitude. Not because you were a bit rough with me, but because it's the Dao Way to handle this. If you'd like to still speak to me, that's cool. And (to a certain degree) I appreciate your honesty. Far better THAT, then lying to me, and it making things WORSE. Anyway, thanks. Peace, gossamer

Here's his website: http://dynamictao.com/ Here's his translation of the Dao de Jing: http://dynamictao.com/translation_main.html And one more translation that you might enjoy: http://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzus-Tao-Ching-T...6918&sr=1-1 Check it out! Peace, gossamer

Dear Wuliheron, Here's three books that you might like: http://www.amazon.com/Guodian-Laozi-Procee...5220&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Lao-Tzu-Tao-Te-Ching...5292&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Tao-Its-Mani...5180&sr=1-1 Enjoy. Peace, gossamer

Taomeow, You know what REALLY pisses me off? I really don't care if someone "believes" in "karma" or not, as long as they DON'T force their belief(s) off on me. But what REALLY pisses me off is that this nut case is here on this Forum now too. He doesn't care one wit about the Dao. He's ONLY here to bother me. You and I long ago, used to be on Derek Lin's Forum together too. I've used the I Ching ('Yi Jing') for YEARS now. Here's the BEST of those that I have: 'The Everyday I Ching', by Sarah Denig. This is the one that I originally learned the I Ching from. My oldest I Ching, is 'The I Ching, or Book of Changes', by Richard Wilhelm, and Cary F. Baynes. And I got: 'I Ching, The Classic Chinese Oracle of Change (The First Complete Translation With Concordance)': Translated by Rudolf Ritsema, and Stephen Karcher. And lastly, 'The Complete I Ching: The Definitive Translation', by the Taoist Master Alfred Huang. Yes, Daoism is more then just the Dao de Jing. We agree on that. Back to the previous subect.......... You know, he's followed me all over the internet, so there's every reason that he'd join here too. I'm only sorry that I could get him FIRED, ONLY ONCE! Yours in Dao, gossamer

Dear Stigwerd, It's good to hear from you again. I would differentiate between KARMA and "The Law of Universal Energy Response". Perhaps that's 'splitting hairs' (as the old saying goes) but if so, so be it. KARMA is (supposedly) "the Law" of an endless series of births, deaths, and rebirths. This is Buddhist and Hindu religion, to it's very CORE. Like you, I'm NOT a Hindu, or a Buddhist, but one trying to live Dao. Peace to you, gossamer

Dear Taomeow, You know, I know that it's currently popular for most "Taoist's" or "Daoist's" to believe in "KARMA". Show me this in ANY (reliable) translation of the Dao de Jing. Thanks. Peace, gossamer

"would it still be resolved by philosophy?" All of this has given me what I refer to as PTSD. Post traumatic stress disorder. BUT...................that's a far cry from being DEAD. And I absolutely am determined to HEAL from all of this. Will "philosophy" heal it? NO. But I know some other things that HELP. And I'm slowly trying to learn Qigong. I came to this board originally for HELP. I'm not ashamed to ask. That's about all that I know to say. I hope that that's plain enough. Peace, gossamer

Dear Taomeow, Take it from somebody who actually KNOWS HIM. He's a dumbass. Plain and simple. I'm a (philosophical) Daoist, and I read *NOTHING* about "karma" in the Dao de Jing. Something so important as "karma", Laozi would have spoken about. HE DID NOT. Not ONE WORD about "karma" in the DDJ. "Karma" is for Buddhists and Hindus, thank you very much. I am neither. Peace, gossamer

Let me have a shot at this............... "Negative magic", or whatever term that one wants to use, is affected by a lot of variables. In my case, the complete nut case that's been after me for years now....... If he REALLY KNEW real magic, I'd simply be DEAD, but I'm not dead, now am I? But he is a "tech wiz", and we are now on our 9th (NINTH) computer. He KNOWS THAT. He's PRACTICED *THAT* Over and over again. Has my attitude of KNOWING that this guy is a dumbass magically, affected the outcome of his (supposed) magic? Yes, real magic takes LONG AND HARD WORK, and he spends his days and nights mostly spamming porn here on the net, when does he ever find the time to practice, practice, practice, any real magic?? He DOESN'T spend any time doing this (or very little time). But, he HAS spent literally YEARS working with, and hacking with, computers. He's practiced, practiced, practiced, with hacking his "enemies". Who were almost ALL self made. By the way. And one last thing David, Kokopelli is spelled "Kokopelli", and he was basically a rain and storm god to the Ancient Ones (the Publeos Ancestors). I think that you need to find a dictionary, and STUDY THAT. lol So, magic is first determined by the skill of the practitioner. As is anything really worth learning. The ability to see your enemy as a complete dumbass, definately HELPS. A sense of humor, a real part of the Dao! Peace to all, gossamer About Kokopelli from Wikipedia: "Kokopelli is a fertility deity, usually depicted as a humpbacked flute player (often with a huge phallus and feathers or antenna-like protrusions on his head), who has been venerated by some Native American cultures in the Southwestern United States. Like most fertility deities, Kokopelli presides over both childbirth and agriculture. He is also a trickster god and represents the spirit of music.[1] Among the Hopi, Kokopelli carries unborn children on his back and distributes them to women (for this reason, young girls often fear him). He often takes part in rituals relating to marriage, and Kokopelli himself is sometimes depicted with a consort, a woman called Kokopelmana by the Hohokam and Hopi.[2] Kokopelli also presides over the reproduction of game animals, and for this reason, he is often depicted with animal companions such as rams and deer. Other common creatures associated with him include sun-bathing animals such as snakes, or water-loving animals like lizards and insects. Because of this, some scholars believe that Kokopelli's flute is actually a blowgun (or started out as one). Alternatively, the "flute" may actually be a pipe for smoking tobacco in a sacred ceremony, or some other device entirely. In his domain over agriculture, Kokopelli's fluteplaying chases away the Winter and brings about Spring. Many tribes, such as the Zuni, also associate Kokopelli with the rains.[3] He frequently appears with Paiyatamu, another flautist, in depictions of maize-grinding ceremonies. Some tribes say he carries seeds and babies on his back.[3][4] In recent years, the emasculated version of Kokopelli has been adopted as a broader symbol of the Southwestern United States as a whole. His image adorns countless items such as T-shirts, ball caps, and keychains.[5] A bicycle trail between Grand Junction, Colorado, and Moab, Utah, is now known as the Kokopelli Trail."

Dear Peng Tzu, I've published this on two other Daoist Forums...............see what you think. And I'm NOT saying that Philosophical Daoism is the only kind of Daoism either. I find having lived 56 years now, that I'm NOT interested in being "an Immortal" (much like Connor MacCloed, in the 'Highlander' movie, I'd rather live one normally spaced life, then a life of many years, and watch all of those that I Love die......) like so many are in modern 'Daoism'. Because of where I've been earlier in my life, I really don't care about learning "magic", or Daoist ways that Westerner's would refer to as 'magic'. I do care about the beauty of what Laozi writes, and the feelings of peace and wholeness that it gives me when I read the Dao de Jing. 'Spiritual poetry', is what I might call the Dao de Jing. I value THAT. I'm NOT looking for a religion of power, as a lot of modern Daoist's seem to be doing, I'm just looking for more peace in my life. Maybe a Way to become a better human, friend, husband, and lover. Somedays I'm tired of all the bullshit in life, and the DDJ gives me the clarity to see beyond and through THAT. I used to be a member of Derek Lin's old 'Tao Forum', and it seems back in those days that there were more people looking for The Way as a spiritual path, then there are now.....I don't know, maybe I'm being cynical about that to a certain degree though.....I just don't know. But that's why I care about the philosophy of Daoism, and not all the other fringe stuff. When I read the DDJ I read it to help me understand how to try to walk out The Way, and not really for anything ELSE. That's why I guess if I had to call myself something, I'd use that term; "Philosophical Daoist". That seems to sum it up nicely for me at this time, in my life. Peace, gossamer

( C ) Both

Dear Peng Tzu, Let me share a quote with you, and later this evening, or tomorrow, when I have more time, I will tell you my understanding of Dao. "The ONLY true master is the Tao, its lessons are spoken of silently, and its gestures are stillness. Only in emptiness may one find oneness with the Tao. These are basic ideas all of which Lao Tzu believed as is written in the Tao Te Ching. Now how can a practitioner of Tao Chiao find the first Sages words to be untrue............ words are like the dust, and the Tao will always settle dust............. He who is one with the Tao is the calm before the storm, and the calm in its midst." From 'Tranquility', from the 'Siu Tao Forum' (from Indonesia) I love this quote! Peace, gossamer

Dear Peng Tzu, I have probably upwards of 35 to 40 different translations of the Dao de Jing. Of all those, I probably only use five to read from frequently. Really well translated DDJ's are exceedingly rare, it seems. The Ye Jing is a good tool for helping to have a complete understanding of just where you are on The Way. That being said, I use it these days very infrequently, because the Dao de Jing offers so much. There are two other Daoist forums that are also very good, and I would encourage you to sample those as well: http://members.boardhost.com/Zentao00/ http://forum.daoisopen.com/default.asp Perhaps these two are more about 'Philosophical Daoism'. I don't care so much for labels, but that's my take on them anyways. It always helps to dialog with others seeking a similar Way. If you'd like to know some well done translations of the DDJ, I'd be glad to share with you the one's that I find most useful. Just let me know. OK? Peace to you, gossamer

Dear MPWay, No problem.........I was just really speculating on something so large, just "disappearing". I have NO PROBLEM with 'shoot down' orders if that's what the commanders SAY to do.........one DOES IT! That's just the military way. I wasn't disagreeing with you, in any way. Peace, gossamer

Here's Chapter 69 from the Dao de Jing. For all of you who wrote to me about the hacking thing, here's my motto: There is a motto for war: Don't be a host, stay as a guest. Don't advance an inch; retreat a foot. This is known as; marching without formations, repelling without arms, engaging without armies,and confronting without animosity. The most disastrous is to brave the enemy. Braving the enemy will ruin our treasures (of Tao). Therefore. When armies are engaged, the one with *compassion* will triumph. Is this NOT true? Thanks again, gossamer

You know, one of those UFO's was described as being about the size "of an aircraft carrier", and right in front of those pilots shooting at it, it just "disappeared"..........which has always made me wonder if UFO's are doing an inter-dimensional kind of 'traveling'. Peace, gossamer

I was wondering if any of you know 'Tranquility' from the 'Siu Tao Forum', from Indonesia? He's an American, from Florida: Here's his list profile: About tranquility Religion Tao Chia Location Lake Worth FLA. Occupation Owner of Savage Arts Pier Here's a lovely quote from him: "The ONLY true master is the Tao, its lessons are spoke of silently and its gestures are stillness. Only in emptiness may one find oneness with the Tao. These are basic ideas all of which Lao Tzu believed as is written in the Tao Te Ching. Now how can a practitioner of Tao Chiao find the first Sages words to be untrue? Your gestures are hostility and ridicule, your lessons are loud as thunder, in what way are you a sage, an example of the Tao in action...or in inaction? You question peoples validity to be on this site. By what right? Only the Tao can make such judgments as it does in time. Your words are like the dust and the Tao will always settle dust. I mean no disrespect to you and if my words offend you I humbly apologize, but I am compelled to challenge your position as your position seems to be one of disarray. He who is one with the Tao is the calm before the storm and the calm in its midst. Again I mean no insult. Peace." A philosophical Daoist, after my own heart! I was just wondering if he's also on this list too, perhaps? Thanks. Peace, gossamer

Hello, I'm a new member.....I read a review of 'Nine Nights of a Taoist Master' that one of you wrote, and so I decided to join. I love the Tao Te Ching, and have a bunch of different translations. I look forward to learning more. I guess that I might think of myself as a philosophical Daoist. But mostly, I try to live The Way. Yours, gossamer