Sloppy Zhang

For me meditation and qigong have made me more attuned to the energy I have, the energy other people are giving off, and how I am spending my energy. Sometimes chit-chat is a waste of time. Sometimes it just doesn't matter. Doing it, not doing it, no difference in outcome. So don't do it. You feel like you have something better to do, so go do it.

 

Sometimes, though, chit-chat is great. You build a relationship with someone one small step at a time. Talk about this, talk about that, get to know each other, feel more comfortable around each other. Have fun. It's nice. The energy feels good. You feel energized. You enjoy your time. You know there are other things you could be doing, but doing them at the time just doesn't feel right. You feel right in the conversation. When the conversation stagnates, when you feel like it's run its course, and you start to feel like you need to move on, do so.

 

That's what I've gotten, and so far it's worked out nicely. Times that I'm too social I don't get any work done. Times that I try to be workworkworkworkwork are times when I miss out on some very good opportunities. Feel it out. Know yourself. Know how much time you feel good about doing what.

 

 

As far as interacting with people, yeah, there's a lot of shit in the world. Sometimes you don't sound like you're all "with it". In that case, either try to remove yourself from the situation (which you can't always do), and if you can't, try to find something simple to enjoy.

 

If you're talking with a person, talk simple subjects. If you're enthusiastic about nothing, talk about nothing! Or, what I've started to do, is ask people about what they think about such-and-such subject. Could be seriously spiritual, could be frivolous. Not everyone takes time out of their day to think about certain kinds of things. If you bring it up nicely enough, they might enjoy the change of pace. Don't force them to do something they don't want to do, don't try to lead them. Just observe them going through their process. It's quite interesting, fun, and simple who knows you might get them started on something themselves

Not every great fighter can make this claim about their martial art.

 

Well look, it depends on your perspective.

 

Some people look at boxing and say, "training in boxing will hurt you when you get old." Some people look at karate and say, "karate training hurts you when you get old", but then say, "look at this old guy doing bagua, he's so healthy, this art doesn't hurt you when you get old!"

 

And it's like.... well, what are the standards you are using? Conditioning your body to be able to do the techniques you are learning is part of martial arts. Some arts focus on muscle building. So for boxing you gotta work out the muscles you are going to use. There are correct ways of working out, and incorrect ways of working out. Working out incorrectly will hurt you. Working out correctly will not. Look at Billy Blanks (of Tae Bo fame), he's 55 and still going! He's fit even when compared to other people who frequently exercise. Chuck Liddell is 41, and he's still a beast. So to say that "working out" and "muscle building" and stuff will damage your body in the long term, based on what you see of boxers and other athletes (like football players, wrestlers, etc) isn't really correct.

 

Now the people working out building muscle and then learning how to use this for fighting are going the extra step and having a martial art that they are putting on the line. They compete, they train others who compete using the same art and same techniques, and win some and lose some. Hopefully they win more than they lose, and their art becomes pretty reliable.

 

Now you've got arts like many of the internal ones, and they don't compete because of various reasons which I'm sure we're all familiar with, whether we agree or disagree. So not only are we left with kind of a vague set of standards for what "doesn't hurt the practitioner doing it", but we're also left with a vague standard of what a martial art that "works" actually looks like, because we never see it when it's working (we only really see it when it isn't because of practitioners who "aren't doing it right" are getting their asses kicked and having it pasted all over youtube).

 

Meanwhile you got lots of examples of arts that DO work (meaning it has a training method that actually prepares a student to be able to fight using the techniques they learn, actually teach applications which are feasible, and that actually practice and carry out the applications against a live, resisting, determined opponent), coupled with fighters who are quite healthy well into their 40's and 50's.

 

At the end of the day you cant really worry about, or care, what other people or other schools are doing. You can only worry about what you are doing.

 

I agree with this insofar as your own personal training. You do what you do, and don't care about what other people are doing or saying.

 

But at the same time, you also have to be aware. Aware of what you are doing and aware of what others are doing. Is what you are doing effective? Are you getting results that you think you should be getting? Is there a general timeline (keeping in mind that everyone is unique and progresses differently) that you can measure your progress by? Are you seeing the signs of progress?

 

And stretching further (for the people who like to keep other peoples' best interests in mind), are other people doing what they say they are doing? Are they teaching others a method which is effective?

 

Other schools do not reflect on you, even if they are the same style, only you and the people you train with reflect upon you.

 

It's good to get outside of yourself in order to observe yourself. In the "best kung fu master" thread, there was some talk of going into "la la land" or something like that. If you exclusively focus on the way you are doing things, and not thinking of others, you can allow HUGE blind spots. Other people can capitalize on this.

 

BJJ and wrestling did this prior to, and subsequently during, the formation of the UFC. BJJ and wrestling were the styles that got furthest in the competition, surpassing karate, boxing, wing chun, and the like. Why? Because so far everyone had neglected the ground aspect. "Why would you want to fight on the ground? A smart fighter would never take someone to the ground. Holy shit, I'm on the ground, oh fuck, my arm is breaking and I'm being choked out!"

 

In subsequent years, even if you want to be a stand up fighter, having a good defense against ground maneuvers, and being a competent ground fighter yourself, are the best ways to stay standing up. We wouldn't have seen this if we just ignored what everyone else was doing.

When people see ordinary kungfu skill on YouTube, they say, "That's just ordinary!"

When people see extraordinary skill, they say, "It must be fake!"

When people see no skill, they say, "Yeah I believe it!"

 

Since you brought up youtube, mind showing some clips of what would you call "ordinary kungfu skill", "extraordinary skill", and "no skill"? Just so we have a frame of reference?

 

What is their frame of reference and credibility? Their own personal experience, nothing more.

 

On reading the links you posted, you talk about bullshido a bit. How much time have you actually spent on bullshido? How much time did you spend getting to know people there, or at least observing what ACTUALLY happens?

 

I agree that bullshido is a magnet for internet bullies. They want to hate on someone, and bullshido gives them an excuse to do that.

 

However, there is a core in bullshido of people who actually train martial arts (some of them train traditional arts like bajiquan) and who actively visit schools all over the country and organize tournaments where people can get together and test their skills in as real an environment as possible. Yes, there are "rules". Yes, they try to avoid "killing", "eye gouging", and "electrocuting people with chi." But they provide an environment where skilled (or potentially unskilled) fighters can get together and test their techniques against other skilled (or potentially unskilled), determined, resisting opponents.

 

It's important to note that it is the anonymous bullshido user who has made it "cool" to random insult martial arts. Just as it has become cool in other circles to use bullshido as an example of ignorant haters. The core of people at bullshido have put their names and reputation on the line time and time again. They are mature enough to admit when they are wrong. When they meet a teacher who has a training method that actually prepares a student to be able to fight using the techniques they learn, actually teach applications which are feasible, and that actually practice the applications against a live, resisting, determined opponent, they say, "this guy has the goods, respect him, learn from him, if you don't, that's fine, but don't insult him, because if you do, we will run you out of here."

 

Legitimate martial artists have NOTHING to fear from bullshido. They are rough around the edges, and pick up a lot of random internet haters, but they are honest. Even with themselves! If they find a guy teaching BJJ in a poor manner, they try to shut the guy down. Bullshido is no holds barred when it comes to martial arts investigation. They don't pull punches, and they don't care who it is they are hitting. The only way you are "safe" is if you are "legitimate."

 

And if you are up front and honest about what you can and can't do, guess what? THEY DON'T CARE! If you say, "I've never been in real combat, I've never entered a tournament, I've learned this from a teacher but I've never used it in a fight, so just keep that in mind when I teach you combat applications", THEY DON'T CARE! Why? Because you are being HONEST! It's about setting a standard of honesty and then holding everyone to it.

 

For every humble student of the martial arts, there are 100 YouTube curators who fancy themselves a teacher. Not commenting on anyone here personally, of course--but "waking people up" is serious business and online education does not cut the mustard.

 

Youtube comments in general are not a good group to sample. Though I've come across some really intelligent youtube users and made good friends through the comment sections, there's a lot of shit that goes on in them. Because not only do you have someone with an opinion, you've got someone who's willing to log in, leave a comment, then come back and respond. So they're already pretty well into whatever it is they are into.

 

On the other side of the coin...there are fake masters, sure. And as I have written previously, we need fake masters, because we need someone to absorb all the fake disciples!

 

Bull. Shit.

 

It's a free market. If you don't like it, move to North Korea...where you'll probably learn more than you ever wanted to know about urban survival...and YouTube best practices won't get you very far.

 

Wow. Exaggerating a bit?

 

Free market does not mean you are allowed to lie to people about your credentials, about what you can do, about what your art can do, etc etc. That is false advertising. That is illegal. The problem with the martial arts community (and also in the spiritual community, but that's a whole new can of worms) is that there is no set standard. And part of that comes from the community. The consumers.

 

When someone comes in saying, "I can project energy to make the opponent freeze up just long enough for me to apply a technique," or, "this art can beat 8 opponents at once", how do we respond? With "awesome" or "that doesn't sound very probable, let's see it in action".

 

To a certain extent, you can't distrust everything. To a certain extent, you have to rely on the words of other people. However, rely on those words within reason. 8 opponents is a lot of people. There are a lot of very strong, well conditioned people out there (even who aren't trained fighters), are you going to rely on your energy to stop them? Are you not going to pressure test your skills and just say, "well in a real fight it'll work out"? That is dangerous. And fraudulent martial arts teachers telling people this, by virtue of the fact that they are in this position, get away with it. Why? Because there is no standard to judge people by. People new to martial arts go, "well if he's a teacher, and he has his own school, and he has a black belt, he must be real!" Why? Because most other schools and teachers have credentials that they must adhere to! Little do people know that no one is holding martial artists accountable for anything.

Very good points have been made.

 

Styles like boxing, judo, BJJ, karate, even stuff like Tae Kwon Do, have people who train in their styles represent the style in competitive matches. Other styles, such as Krav Maga, are currently in use by some of the best military organizations in the world. They have routinely put their skills, and reputation, on the line, and have come out the victor.

 

Conversely, what have most internal arts and their teachers done? Well, not much. I don't know how many people saw

video, but, well, it's very representative of the state of many things today. Though most of the BGZ guy's stuff wasn't too hot, there are a few times where you can tell he tried to attempt some bagua techniques, and what happens? He runs into a wall of muscle and gets the crap beat out of him (there was a point where he tried to spin, and all he did was give up his back).

 

Now how do most people respond to this? "Well it WAS a fight in the ring after all." Wow. Seriously. The rhetoric around most IMA, and lots of other traditional martial arts (TMA), who either don't fight competitively, or don't have aspects of training which are rooted in sparring/fighting a resisting opponent have lots of carefully crafted reasons excuses for why their arts either 1) won't work in the ring, or 2) will work in a live encounter despite the lack of live training.

 

The people saying stuff about this fight are saying, "well the muay thai guy was better conditioned", "well I'm old and haven't fought for a long time", "well I train for real encounters" and so on, despite stuff you hear from internal styles saying, "it doesn't matter if they are stronger than you," "you get stronger with age because your body gets more supple," and other considerations like that. Furthermore, what kind of "real" encounters are your preparing for if you can't fight a guy with a little muscle?

 

It seems the trend today to work out just to get a hot body. Even if they aren't particularly trained, a lot of people have some serious muscle on their bodies, and brute force HURTS, especially if you're only moderately trained in martial arts and don't know how to handle that kind of opponent (because previously you've only trained against people who know your style and who aren't really trying to hurt you).

 

I look at people who teach traditional martial arts and internal arts and look at what it is they are teaching and how. Lots of those arts do not train in a way that I'd consider live or in a manner that would adequately prepare you for a serious non-friendly encounter.

 

I've heard rumors that B.K. Frantzis, in particular, took part in serious martial competitions with his bagua, and came out on top. But those are rumors I can't confirm. So I don't have any opinion on the martial skill of his person, nor do I comment on the martial skill of his students. Most of what he teaches, and most of his students, seem a lot more focused on the healing aspects, and theoretical competitions. Now it might be that I just haven't heard, but most don't seem to be putting in the training that develops actual combat skills (which is different than just learning combat applications).

 

As for other arts, until I see evidence that they are training in a realistic way, well.... I take most of their "combat" teachings with a giant lump of salt.

 

For energy people talking about combat.... well, look, I personally hold the crazy believe that it's possible. Does that mean I believe the people teaching it can do it? Does it mean I believe that the method they are teaching is the one that will make it work? Not necessarily. I can say that nobody has ever tested it under 1) controlled conditions (science experiments) or 2) hostile conditions (recorded fight) in any real conclusive manner. So, well, it doesn't have a good track record. In fact, it doesn't have ANY track record.

 

For the people saying it's not for the ring, it's not for competitions, well, look at your martial arts history, a lot of bagua, xingyi, and tai chi people stepped up onto the lei tai and fought challengers. Lei tai had (and has) a bit of a different dynamic, because you could push people off, so for the non-violent types it was a great way to showcase skills. It's actually illegal in UFC to throw people out of the ring. So the non-violent types are going to have to use a different skill set to establish their dominance.

 

But look, even at bullshido, a rough place in general, they have respect for tai chi- REAL tai chi. They look at videos of sanshou and lei tai fights (full contact fights) and those who know what they are looking at can see tai chi applications used in fights. Last time I was there (which admittedly hasn't been for a while now), they didn't take kindly to people bashing tai chi as a martial art, because they had seen evidence to the contrary (assuming proper training).

 

I advocate people being up front and honest about what they can do, and part of that is demonstrating skills they claim to possess. No one HAS to step out into the public. No one HAS to demonstrate or share what it is they practice. Everyone has the right to privacy. HOWEVER, if someone steps forward and starts making claims, then those claims need to be substantiated if they want those claims to be treated seriously. Failing to substantiate those claims is suspicious at best. It's not about saying, "who's right" or "who's wrong", it's about everyone holding each other to a standard of accountability, to keep each other grounded in reality, and making sure that the techniques being taught to others are GENUINE techniques that actually WORK, DO what they SAY they can do, do not hurt people doing them, and that leave no room for frauds to take advantage of new students.

 

So, long story short, sykkelpump has a point.

Great topic!

 

I too am interested in hearing what others have to say about winter time practice. Practicing outside and barefoot is great during warm weather time, but what to do in winter? Practice concerns, etc.

Yeah, it's neat that we get an interview about this but.... yeah, some of the actions of the people involved seem kind of sketchy. Obviously there's a lot to be said for being there and knowing the people involved, but just hearing the description of the actions..... it kinda sounds like John Chang didn't want the guy to be there and the guy in the interview was being avoided? So he just shows up, "so no one can make any excuses"? Seems a bit awkward.

 

If a teacher is willing to teach, you'd know it. If they aren't talking to you, then maybe there is something you still need to work on, and you have all the tools to do it yourself, so the teacher doesn't want you to be around, but rather working on it on your own, or they just aren't interested in having you around any more. Though you don't always know what's going through someone's mind, their actions can clue you in. Again, hard to say from just this interview, buuuut IMHO it doesn't sound promising for this guy...

 

But I bet in the west this guy gets a lot of clout for being a "western student of THE John Chang." And the way the interviewer kept referring to "Chang" and asking questions, it was like some tabloid media outlet. I'm all for masters being open, I'm all for legitimate practices being made open, but seriously, try to refer to people with a bit more respect!

 

Again, it's cool that there are people interacting with teachers and students of Mo Pai, but I dunno, it doesn't seem like there is as much enthusiasm on their end for teaching as it is on our end for learning.

Firstly, meet the guy(s).

After that, if you're still interested in 2 cents, let me know.

 

I'm interested!

 

I'm not in a position right now where I can go meet people, I'm trying to see what material I can get together through book (and possibly DVD format). But he's put so much out there that I don't know where to begin, and like I said, I'd like to do it in proper progression.

So there's a LOT of material out by Mantak Chia (and also Michael Winn) that teaches a lot of stuff. I'm interested in looking at some of what they have to offer, but I have no idea where to begin. What's the general order, from beginner to advanced, that one is supposed to practice?

To give me all of your money!

 

Because money just distracts you from the real good things in life!

You say that tao te ching has not been altered according to your definition. What is your definition?

Modern fighting?

Traditional martial arts?

What are these things?

The more I hear about them, the less I know.

Believe me, I'd like to know a lot more.

 

There is nothing more traditional than beating a solid object with your fists. Nothing.

 

Standing around is not traditional martial arts--it can't be more than 2500-3000 years old, and besides, fighting with that stuff is an off-label use.

 

Was Musashi a traditional martial artist, or a modern fighter? Who should we ask? His "resisting opponents"? How about Genghis Khan?

 

Oh well. Just ignore my recent comments. I've been drinking green tea all day.

 

I'm saying "traditional" and "modern" arts in terms of dates and the types of techniques you'd most likely see in a random encounter off the street, or in an amateur or professional fight.

 

Many arts that are in practice today have been in existence for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

 

Some training philosophies of historical arts have the same philosophy that modern combatives taught in the military have. So to that extent, you can say they are the same.

 

But I'm loosely categorizing them in terms of their time periods. You can say "2,000 years old isn't really old by any stretch", and that's fair in the grand scheme of things. But that drifts into a semantical argument. I'm not trying to come up with a cut and dried labeling system of martial arts, because depending on what you want to look at, you can arrange them any which way.

 

My point is that people get mired in how their teachers trained, how their teacher's teachers trained, and so on and so forth. So they see people using heavy bags and boxing gloves and say, "that's not how we train, instead we wrap our hands in bandages and hit wooden dummies." Yeah, you can say, "well both involve hitting shit!" but not everyone does that. And seeing as how not everyone has access to wooden dummies, a lot of people just don't practice that part. Then that aspect of training gets lost, so now you've got a group of people who aren't even training their art in a proper or effective way- you've got people who train to hit stuff who've never even hit anything before!

 

[/rant]

 

Point is, don't get hung up on my off the cuff classifications

Thank you Sloppy Zhang, I am excited to get started. Do you think BKF's CD provides information the book doesn't or just resays whats in his book? I guess my only concern is if I should be learning this, just because I am about to start Wild Goose Qigong which I have read is a style which emphasizes natural breathing. I guess BKF's is simply how breathing should naturally be and it would be fine to do both together, its not like I am actually doing his qigong, just his breathing practice.

 

I don't have any of his CD's, so I can't comment on them.

For throws you need to be connected (or as you say locked). The technique of taking up slack on a person is used constantly. The bounce is different. The other person's energy is disburse or sent back instantly. Try my example of punching your hand. With proper timing the hitting fist bounces off the receiving hand. Once you have a feeling for that timing, with practice you can have someone punch your open hand and bounce them back (beware it can hurt their wrist, & the movement/feeling is popping the hand open, the fingers spread out and hands moves minimally forward-you're not pushing back, you're popping, mentally there is a quiet kiai of PAHHH).

 

I want to add this though. In my years of doing and watching randori and sparring I haven't seen people use this technique outside of demonstrations, where quite frankly you know when and what is coming at you. The timing has to be very precise. That's why its easy to do it to your own punch, harder to do with anothers punch (or push)when you have an idea of roughly when its coming, as in a demonstration, but very high level to do in real combat.

 

What I've been taught is you don't block, you don't bounce, you get out of the way.

 

Michael

 

Skip ahead to about 1:19, is this what you're talking about:

 

EXCELLENT breathing method. Ever since I started it, I've only had good experiences with that. On top of that, whenever I study other disciplines (such as singing), you know what method I come across? Full breathing that is almost exactly the same as the taoist breathing that BKF teaches (which I think he has called "longevity breathing").

 

Basically, it is a great way to start learning to breathe in a natural way that also allows you to breathe to your fullest capacity WITHOUT over stressing the system (that's assuming you stick to things like the 70% rule, and pay attention to what your body tells you!)

 

That said, I think that any issues or difficulties you, or anyone else, will come across will be individual in nature, and will only be fixed through consistent practice, as well as consistent awareness of what you are doing, as well as, if you are practicing on your own from a book, consistent re-reading of the material. You pick out different things when you read it. Sometimes you will find yourself focusing on different aspects and ignoring others, only to find that something you glossed over is the key to solving your problem. So I'd say read the material every day for a good two to three days, practice for about a week, then revisit the material for a couple of days, in which you re-read the material, while adjusting your practice.

 

I don't really have any unique stories or tips to give. There's a lot of stuff that came up over the course of practice, but it was resolved by more practice, more awareness, and a deeper study and reflection on the material.

 

As far as other material, I'd stick with "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body". He describes a breathing method in "Relaxing into Your Being", but it's basically a less detailed version of the longevity breathing as laid out in "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body". He also mentions some standing alignments, as well as mentions stuff about breathing and alignments in the Dragon and Tiger Medical Qigong book, but that too was taken from Energy Gates.

 

If you just stick with the energy gates book, and really make an effort to KNOW the material and truly be able to DO it before moving onto the next step, you WILL make progress. Just make sure you don't fool yourself, keep the integrity of your practice, and try to look critically at what you are doing. You have to be a student AND a teacher, and sometimes that's hard, but it's the only way to succeed if you're practicing on your own.

Here's a video that I came across a while ago:

 

 

And it's kinda the stuff I'm talking about. You see a lot of people doing the traditional training methods (heavy emphasis on standing), but you also see them working with modern training equipment (heavy bags, boxing gloves), and then (at the end) you see them sparring against resisting opponents.

 

So, yeah, I'm all for traditional arts. Just don't get so absorbed in what is "tradition" and what is "not tradition" that you forget to actually make sure that what you're doing WORKS.

I too have been in the market for a bagua book recently!

 

I've come across this one on Wang Shujin's bagua: http://www.amazon.com/Bagua-Linked-Palms-Shujin-Wang/dp/1583942645/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1289781251&sr=8-1

 

Kent Howard, one of the translators, has a really good youtube page where he performs demonstrations of some techniques: http://www.youtube.com/user/baguaman8

 

If you aren't afraid to get spend a little more, there are some Yin Style Baguazhang DVD sets out that teach various aspects of the Yin style system, which feature both Xie Peiqi and He Jinbao performing them. Only four forms out of the total eight have been released on DVD, but I've talked to some of the people who have purchased them, and they seem to be fairly extensive and comprehensive not only in the instruction of the form, but in standing exercises, practice drills for each of the techniques, and applications. You can find them here: http://traditionalstudies.org/Store/YSB_8_Animals.html He Jinbao says to start study with the Lion form.

 

http://www.maguibagua.net/ Has basic instruction for stuff. They have e-books which are only a few dollars, and which they say is basically the text of the website, but with better pictures, diagrams, and a few more explanations on a couple of techniques. This is Ma Gui's style of Yin style bagua.

IMHO you find the answer to your question on youtube. Just look at some bagua videos.

 

 

Hmm, the whole point of the teachings that Bruce is giving is not to copy the position from the outside, but to know what you should do with the energy, the ligaments, the muscles, the awareness, the glands & organs and then let the position come out of that. The external position might not be as pretty, but it is effective, and that is what is important.

 

In another workshop we were even told that telling to someone that his tai ji form is beautiful can sound like an insult in China. Something similar to you telling to a carpenter that his hammer is beautiful, or to a car racer that his car is pretty.

 

 

At the workshop in Rome recently we were given instructions on how to start moving the hand while circle walking. I can't share it because I haven't practiced it enough. But I know that it will all be in the Bagua mastery program. Of course it is only worth paying for it if you intend to actually practice it.

 

Yeah, it's not too hard to find examples on youtube of various techniques. That's how I learned the chen style tai chi form (got a book on it later though). But knowing the underlying aspects is a big deal as well. Though I could find the form, I didn't really know what I was doing until I learned the material in "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" and other material from B.K. Frantzis.

 

Though I'll go back and check again, the only instruction on what to do with the hands in "Relaxing Into Your Being" is when he teaches straight line walking, and says to have them like you do in standing posture. Once I started to practice circle walking, my arms/hands started to feel a need to do something as well after a while. And while I can look up palm changes easily enough and copy them, I'd like to know at least a bit about their underlying aspects before I start to practice it.

 

Pietro, when you get to a point where you can share, I'd look forward to it

Also, in "Relaxing Into Your Being" he gives instructions for circle walking, but doesn't mention positions for arms/hands. What hand/arm positions would he recommend for someone who is circle walking, though hasn't learned or who isn't at the time working with any palm changes?

I do not think that science and religion are inherently oppositional, but people make them out to be that way.

 

If the goal of science is to figure out what's going on in the universe, figure out how things happen, and why, and things of that nature, then that does not conflict with the goal of spirituality. If there is a God, universal cosmic force, or some other thing, then somewhere along the line, I believe it should be discovered by science, because the goal of science is to learn about such things. So in the end, I personally think they are going to the same place.

 

As part of the requirements for my college, I have to take upper level science classes, and I have taken upper level astronomy courses for that requirement. It's amazing how many things we learn about that coincide with things like daoist cosmological views. It's amazing how many times I hear my professor say things that you'd hear a spiritual teacher say.

 

It's just that people like to make such a big deal of "thinking vs. feeling", "rational thought vs. intuitive thought", and on and on and on and on. About how one is better, how one will get you something better, and on and on. Humans are not one dimensional, and neither is the universe that we live in!

 

But people like to fight. People like to be "better" than someone else. "Scientists" like to look at "mystics" and say, "hah, there's no logical reason for why they believe the crap they believe!" and "mystics" look at "scientists" and say, "hah, they do not yet realize that their logic is not suitable to encompass everything that goes on in the universe, and their reliance on logic will cripple their ability to truly see!"

No, its not taking in, then sending back. Its not receiving the energy in the first place; bouncing it back at the point of contact. A fun exercise was to 'pop' people back who were shoving you at the shoulders. The classic prefight move where the aggressor starts by pushing you back. With proper timing they push hard at you with both hands and are sent backwards as if jerked, like in the video. It takes some training, but I had students in my kids class who could get it.

 

This might give you a feeling for it. Make a fist w/ one hand and punch into your other (open) hand a few times. You hit it, and it (the hands) moves backward. There's a point at contact, a fraction of a second as skin touches skin, where if you flick the open hand forward (open the fingers, feels like pop, not a push) it bounces the punch backwards. Thats the feeling and timing you want.

 

If someone grabs your arm and uses it to push you, there is moment where they move the skin back. Its very small maybe half an inch, thats also the timing where you'd 'pop' them backwards. In Ki Aikido the person who takes up slack first has a large advantage. Its not just the skin, after slack is taken up, there's a tiny bit of slack in each joint that is ever so slightly taken up.

 

Its fun to play around with, but its not necessarily a sign of particular mastery. My Aikido instructor would do many demonstrations of having multiple people push against him etcetera, but he'd always let us in on how it was done. For example in the classic sitting and having multiple people press against you, say 6 or 7 pushing. The truth is one is not too bad, 2 is harder, 3 harder still but after that it gets easier. They can't apply there force with coordination. That little trick of taking up slack as the first one begins to push makes the trick almost effortless. There force is dissipated.

 

 

I think the video is real, the people were popped back by a small movement just as they made contact. The timing is exquisite.

 

 

Michael

 

Thanks for the explanation!

There's some interesting psi research stuff out there. However, from most of what I've seen, it seems to be done by analyzing large groups of people. So most of the time, on an individual level, there isn't much more outside regular chance that's occurring, but when you consider how often and how many people are doing "just a bit more" than what chance would allow, it seems like something is happening a bit more massively.

 

Of course, skeptics can and do argue (and I figure, rightly so) that a lot can be said for the manipulation of numbers and how you present the data. But there are lots of good counter arguments for the supporters and why the calculations are all valid.

 

I believe that it is possible. However, that's exactly why I remain skeptical, because it's VERY easy to WANT to believe something so much, that you see it even when it isn't there.

 

Attached is an interesting set of articles I came across a while ago. The first is a meta-analysis showing how psi effects can be present. The second is a response to the first article from a skeptical viewpoint that is critical of the firs one's findings, and the third section is a response to that response, addressing those criticisms.

psi scientific article.pdf

Hey Sean.

 

Also I would like to know if he is planning to release the bagua mastery program for a larger aduience than to the 250 in the future or is this the only chance to get the contents to the bagua mastery program??

 

Thx man your doing a huge favor making these interviews.

 

Hey Sean, if you're still compiling the questions and waiting to send them, I'd second this, and also add if he has plans to release individual DVD's or books on the material in smaller segments. Hundreds of dollars at a time might be too much for some people to drop on a product at a time, but stuff in the $35-$75 range might be a bit more accessible.

We'd play around with this kind of thing during ki Class in Aikido. My instructor was pretty good at bouncing people off him. With a little instruction and some practice its not hard to do under controlled situations.

 

The 'secret' is in timing. There is a fraction of a second when applies in a push where you can 'catch them' with a subtle motion that takes up slack as they push. The motion is very small and if your timing is right the force they use bounces back against them.

 

The better you are the more instinctive it is. Its a tool that looks impressive but is not necessarily the most useful technique in a fight. It can be used against a fist, but the timing is so exquisite its a hell of a lot easier to just step back.

 

Michael (nidan)

 

Sounds interesting. What do you mean by "takes up slack as they push"? Are you following their force until they are extended, then pushing back, or pushing back into whatever slack they have? Or something else?

 

Exactly, one of the people in that video posted at TTB a few times.

 

Interesting.

 

I don't want to say that people who make these videos are deliberately trying to misrepresent themselves or their skills (though it may be the case in some situations for some people). Some people generally believe in the things they are doing. That said, not a lot of people are willing to go through the rigorous testing needed to be done before they know for sure whether whatever they are practicing is, well, is able to do what they think it can do. And for a lot of people, they'll never need a system that can do that.

 

So it can get complicated and depends.

Oh do they make some entertaining videos hehe. I just dont know how people can act this way and not feel ashamed. Anybody watching this from 100 miles away can see its so fake. Why would they even bother is my question ?

 

I dunno. I'm sure it's quite complicated and varies from case to case.