Sloppy Zhang

A lot of people will say, "Why dont meditation masters show something tangible, a benefit or an ability that can be demonstrated and verified?"

 

Well.....here is one!

Yes, these people have stepped forward and verified their claims. They did what they said they could do under controlled conditions, in reliable setting with reliable observations made, and showed RESULTS!

Mega props to them, they have made a great example!

If only more would follow their example, who knows what else we could discover?

try unine therapy.

Lyoto Machida does it.

Not summer (for me), but.....

H2K - Summer Melody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8nNwd70Bgk

I also seemed to recall a warning/message that those practices were only a small part of a much larger system that one should be practicing alongside the methods he taught, and that you shouldn't practice them except with a teacher.

I don't practice his methods, so I didn't practice those techniques.

Also, it's been talked a lot here on TTB. A lot of things have, actually. Before taking up a practice, it might be good to search here, and on google and other places, for information about the practices and those who have practiced it before getting involved, so you can get any warnings and stuff beforehand.

But I do hope you can fix everything.

alwayson - are you shure you want to do this?

The guy will be blaming you for every time he goes to the toilet and nothing comes out the way he wants it to.

 

Besides the proof of Astral projection is when you meet someone on the astral and then again in real life.

 

Also - the solar equanox (Dong Zhi) is only a few days away (Dec. 21)- thus the 90 day training period is almost impossible to reach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice#Seasonal_position

 

I suggest to let him wander around on his own and grow up a -lot-.

 

In yoga, astral training is known as "the dieing that gives life" thus must be performed within the timings of the universe AKA: winter.

Perhaps you should get to know people a bit more, rather than only reading a handful of their posts and then putting them on your ignore list

You know what they say about assumptions, don't you?? They make an ASS out of U and ME (ASS U ME.... ASSUME).

How about, instead of attacking people and accusing them of not having the proper methods, why not share some of what YOU (would) do which will get everyone through the pitfalls that we are all going to fall into if we keep doing what we're doing?

Or are we not ready to receive your immense wisdom?

Or have you already given it, and we just aren't smart enough to pass the IQ test which is life and your riddles to figure it out?

I'll read through those threads and yeah, that's why I made this thread I want to learn as much as possible on my own before dropping coin on something I could have been practicing beforehand. Can you sit in full lotus? If so, what stretches did you do to develop it? Thanks.

I used some stretches from this page.

This is a recommendation from another thread:

2 hours Full lotus Yin Xan Fa per day.

At least 2 hours half Lotus.

This will show enough true seeker.

If you can do the things above you will also able to gather the money together

and the time.

If money is tight, then I would recommend finding out as much as you can on your own, and doing as much as you can on your own BEFORE you go to the seminar, that way you can soak up as much as possible when you get there, rather than "treading water" with things you could have figured out/done on your own for a lot less money.

Also, I dunno if you know of this blog: http://longmenpai.blogspot.com/ but yeah, that's all I got.

And search the forum for Yin Xian Fa, there's some interesting past threads.

[edit] Actually, you get better results doing a search through google, at least I do:

Tada!

I can see it and I can tell you sloppy that it's title is: "Mals big bumper book of Playboy Bunnies in the Playboy Mansion".

 

 

ps. Not really.'Mastering Astral Projection' Robert bruce and Brian Mercer'

Aw man, I liked the first one

I've actually taken a look at that book in the bookstore, and most of what's in that book (that I saw) is actually in his other books (which I have), just in a schedule form (and I don't have any problems keeping a schedule).

So thanks for the offer, Mal, but I'm good

Want to borrow my book?

 

 

I can't see the image

Going directly to the URL doesn't work too good either

Hi Sloppy !

 

Hey, yes I moved this from the politics post to here because I thought it was relevant

to the stuff being discussed. Yes, these are my own thoughts, and statements.

And I too, was born and raised right here in the USA.

 

I tire of the fear mongering that goes on. It's all over the media. It's here within this site.

It's within the pysche of the human mind, and it is wasteful and useless to living a life that is

calm and without contention. These things (which we can never really change) mean very little

to the average person. Their lives go on and will continue to do so, regardless of what paranoid

story is next to arrive.

 

Fear is a means to control the masses of our world, by showing fear we lose our capacity to deal

with challenges in a rational manner. Once we have reached that point, minds are no longer open,

and communication is at an end.

Fear and the actions predicated by fear are the enemy of mankind, and the world, and all life on it.

 

I used to worry about the scary things of this world, after all, there are so many especially if you watch TV.

War, human degradation, and all manner of suffering. I used to give in to those feelings that I am being lied

to by my government, and all world leaders. I used to feel angry for the things I judged to be wrong with this

world. I used to waste much of my time and energy reading and learning of all the scary stuff that has been

determined to be going on by those in the know.

 

I used to be a very unhappy, untrusting, unsure, unbalanced, irrational and usually misunderstanding person.

All because of my refusal to see what was this world. It is more than our minds can ever fully comprehend,

it is the great mystery that the Tao speaks of.

 

Our existence in this world is definitely unsure, and yes there are many things that are scary,

and there will always be another new conspiracy theory to tell us what's going on.

 

The point is .... so what?

Is this what your life is about?

Is the fear of feeling helpless the motivating factor in your actions?

If the world is falling apart and we are all going to die a horrible death, what does any of it matter?

 

It is an illusion to think that countries are entirely separate entities. They are not.

What happens in this world goes beyond any lines drawn on a map.

We all live on one world.

The control of nations is a worldwide endeavor by the unimaginably rich of our world.

Money controls governments and countries.

Governments are for the sole purpose to give the illusion of separateness a fleshed out reality.

It is comical when people talk of having to do something to make changes within their government,

as if they really have any control whatsoever.

 

Stop talking. What is there to be done ?

Do you really think you as one person have a complete

and full understanding of what the truth of this world is?

Do you think anyone does?

What is to be gained by creating discontent, with no clarity of

how to change what you actually have no understanding of?

 

This is the opposite of wisdom... to act without fully comprehending what the

situation you are within, is.

Know, comprehend, see with clarity the systems with a system that is our world.

 

The only thing you can control is your own actions, and even that only with discipline and practice.

The most important endeavor you will ever take is that of seeing the importance of stopping the

wasting of vital energy in useless behavior, and refocusing that energy to live your life as fully,

as consciously, as Tao like as possible, right Now.

 

To look at the world and say things need to change to what you believe they should be, this is not Tao.

To force what is to become anything else, this is not Tao.

To waste your vital energies in acts of needless contention, this is not Tao.

To live a life of judgmental non-awareness, this is not Tao.

 

To look at the world and see the cyclic nature in all things, and to accept that this is Tao.

To see what is and accept what is, and use to the benefit of all, this is Tao.

To use our vital energies in pursuits that compliment the flow of nature, this is Tao.

To live a life as impartial and full of awareness as possible, this is Tao.

 

We are the merest of specks... In an unknowable managerie of existence.

 

Peace!

I spoke in another thread about being able to know yourself fully, and being able to make honest appraisals. For instance, you could go from being a boastful jerk, to thinking, "boasting gets you nowhere, see how I do not boast, you all boast so much, but I do not, I am more humble than all of you!" that is the same boasting, but in a much more dangerous forum, because it is self deception.

I agree that one cannot let their energy be dispersed just because there is a lot of crap in the world. But sweeping it all under the rug, and then sitting upon that rug so you can meditate and say, "see how I am calm and do not cave into fear mongering" is not what I would call progress or proper action- it is just another form of self deception and willful ignorance and apathy. And that causes nothing but problems, and you have given your tacit support for the despicable acts other propagate.

The only true peace and stillness comes from when you have resolved all of the shit, and that is a long, long way away.

To look at the length and difficulty of the path and say, "well I can't do anything about it on a global/universal scale, but if I just think of myself, how easily I can still my mind and my actions!" that, I do not think is (as) proper.

Raja Yoga is the Yoga of the Mind.

I have given you a beginning.

If you are referring to the differentiation between real/imagined, do you mind expanding a bit more about that? What are some things to look out for? What is the kind of thing to cultivate which will help differentiate between real and imagined, and where do you go from there?

While it is human nature to be curious and guess about what will

happen in the future... paranoia and fear mongering is useless.

 

The truth behind politics is that we will never know why decisions

are made and who is actually in control of world governments.

 

Money knows no political party.

The desire to create more wealth for the relative few,

will always dictate what the status quo is for the rest of us.

A world-wide economy demands this.

 

Anyone thinking they will make real changes in government is foolish.

It is wasted effort to deeply invest one's self into political opinions.

Without ever knowing all the facts about what is the true underlying

nature of the world political agenda, it's all pointless.

 

Better to focus on what's right in front of you.

Live a simple uncomplicated life.

 

Regardless of what you believe... all things come to pass.

Good and bad are irrelevant, and we as individuals can only

endeavor to live the lives we have, as fully as possible.

 

Peace!

I feel like I've heard you say this before.... did you repost this, or paraphrase it from someone else?

I don't know what country you're from, but I'm from America, and in America, the general idea is that it's the people that are the last check of the government. And for the people to be informed, they need to have access to information. Now I understand that certain information pertaining to national security or ongoing military affairs should be kept within a few people.... but seriously, to use that as a blanket excuse for hiding documents which reveal underhanded (or potentially illegal!) activities, is WRONG.

Saying "well we'll never know for sure, let's just keep our heads down" is exactly the kind of behavior which will allow people to continue making decisions that help themselves and lead to harm for others.

I'm not going to speak for other countries, but as far as being American, I think it's the duty of Americans to ask questions of their government, to not be afraid of asking questions of their government, and if a situation arises in which the leadership is not willing to answer the questions in an intelligent manner, then that government needs a change.

Investigation and accountability is not idle curiosity, nor does it lead to fear mongering. It should be a conscious activity that is undertaken with delicacy and intelligence, and an accurate appraisal should be made about the dangers revealed during such investigation. But sometimes the world is a scary place. Sometimes when you investigate, you find nasty stuff. It is not fear mongering to seek to discover the truth.

I forgot to say send energy to the third eye region using NEW

Gotcha.

I assume you do this before doing these steps?

first thing is to take a blue sheet of construction paper and a red sheet of construction paper and tape them to a white wall. Take a few steps back, and look at the edges. You will see the "aura" of the colors.

 

Then take a look at the edges of the leaves of a houseplant or outdoor tree.

 

Now finally...

 

Take of your glasses or contacts (this is important) and look at the edges of your bare feet in sunlight. Sunlight is important too.

Cool stuff.

I don't have visions of physical reality or deities.

 

I just see astral junk...like floating heads of white guys

So how about this?

By the way, I could teach anyone to view auras in seconds.

 

This would help prove the legitimacy of my claims.

 

EDIT: It also would prove Robert Bruce's techniques because thats where I learned it.

If you don't mind teaching, I don't mind learning.

Yeah so basically here, you admit that I already addressed this stuff before.

 

So basically what the fuck is your problem?

Nothing

We got into a discussion of whether OBE's and such can be proven, after you posted this:

Anyway a lot of the benefits of NEW, couldn't be proved.

 

For example I can see auras and have uncontrolled clairvoyant visions after years of practice. You can't prove these things at all.

 

EDIT: Again I am NOT a natural psychic at all. All these things can be developed.

And I responded that that is not completely true, as things which correspond to a physical reality can be verified.

An example being some of the stuff you listed as being able to do, such as:

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

And then that's where we got off track.

My point is not that you PERSONALLY do it, but that someone claiming to be able to do it (which does include you after this post) who actually got around to doing it would be really nice.

In any case, I AM interested in this:

By the way, I could teach anyone to view auras in seconds.

 

This would help prove the legitimacy of my claims.

 

EDIT: It also would prove Robert Bruce's techniques because thats where I learned it.

I'm willing to learn if you're willing to teach

Did I ever say I can do this under test conditions?

 

If you want to keep it real, lets keep it fucking real.

 

Did I ever say I have done this with another human being involved?

 

You keep quoting me, and IT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR POSITION..

 

Lets keep it fucking real bro.

That's why I ASKED you.

I asked you if you could, and you said NO.

So I said: why don't you?

And you responded: because in tested conditions, you wouldn't be relaxed, and then you couldn't do it.

And I said, that's too bad. Maybe if you (or someone else) could do it under tested conditions, we'd actually get this accepted as legitimate science, instead of being thought of as idiots by everybody else.

No need to be defensive or angry.

I just think that if you can do it yourself, you shouldn't stop there, and should strive to get it proved. You know, to rule out cognitive bias and such.

Fan that flame bro... fan it good!!

If people were upfront and honest about the things they could do, and if people would actually hold each other accountable for their words, there wouldn't be the mess that there is today.

I've been on forums where people were like, "oh yeah, when I was a kid I could use telekinesis and move the dishes around my kitchen with my mind, and organize them without having to lift a finger!" and all the responses were, "wow, that's really cool!" "wow, I really want to get to that level!"

It's like..... someone is sitting there breaking everything we know about physics, and nobody seems to, you know, take a second thought?

People can believe what they want to believe. But, when someone says something that can easily be verified physically, I am going to ask them about it, because I would want someone to hold me accountable if I ever made such a claim. I have been duped by frauds and I have seen other people duped by frauds, and the reason frauds are allowed to exist so easily in the spiritual community is because no one is holding anyone accountable.

I am not saying Robert Bruce or alwayson are frauds. I am not saying that there is no value in meditation or anything like that. But alwayson made a statement (which I have highlighted and quoted repeatedly) which seemed to indicate that he could do something that could easily be verified. And I am calling for some specification on that particular statement.

But alwayson's behavior does not inspire much confidence, and he seems to be using the same playbook that many other people use when they try to back out of what they said.

People tend to be fast and loose with their descriptions of spiritual feats, especially in forums. People can exaggerate and puff their chest and talk about all sorts of experiences, and nobody tends to question the veracity of the claims..... but I am, because I find that the claim contradicts much of what is known today about the world (after thousands of years and billions of dollars in research, not to mention how many lifetimes were dedicated to the pursuit), and I feel that it is an insult to those who have come before to let people run around and make wild claims which contradict such work, with nothing done about it. Not to mention the many aids to humanity such skills can provide.

It gets worse everyday! Homeland Security Committee approves internet kill switch.

 

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9752990

........

Wow......

As The Hill explains, the bill, sponsored by Sens. Joe Lieberman, Susan Collins, and Tom Carper, would give the president "emergency authority to shut down private sector or government networks in the event of a cyber attack capable of causing massive damage or loss of life."

Kind of like how they are going after wikileaks because the actions that wikileaks has taken are capable of causing massive damage or loss of life.

Translation: they'll do it whenever they want and however they want for whatever reason they want.

but an amendment to the PCNAA, approved yesterday, mandates that the president "get Congressional approval after controlling a network for 120 days."

This kinda reminds me about the whole, declaration of war thing, and how troops can be deployed even without a declaration of war, but there must be continuous approval to keep troops in combat zones. But once troops are already there, it's not like people are going to pull support just because they don't agree with them being there, which leads me to believe that once the internet gets "shut down" (if when they do it), it'll take a lot of work to get it back up......

This is not cool

Yeah you are using your own assumptions regarding how OBE works....like I said.

I am going by what YOU said, which is:

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

I took this to mean exactly what you said: you see something in an OBE in another room, and then you can physically verify it.

If you meant something else by those words, please clarify.

Because right now, it seems that you talked bigger than you really are, and for once in your life, someone is holding you accountable for the things you say.

My philosophy when it comes to practice is this: KEEP IT REAL

Be honest with yourself about what you can and can't do, and what your practice does and does not give you.

The spiritual community is pretty slack when it comes to this, and as a result, lots of frauds are allowed to go around saying whatever they want and charging people out the wazoo for their teachings, when there is absolutely no proof that anything that they say is correct- even when such proof can easily be gotten if they can do what they say they can do.

more pie guy has made this comparison many times in many threads, and I will make it again because it is very apt- whenever people go out to buy a product, they look at consumer reviews- does the product accomplish what it says it can accomplish? If it doesn't, they don't buy it. They use their brains and think about whether investing their time and money is a good idea.

But for some reason, that same process is thrown completely out the window in spiritual circles! Because a good student "doesn't ask questions", because a good student, "proves it to himself", because "wanting proof is the ego wanting to hold you back", and because you have people like Alfred E running around insulting anybody who DOES ask questions!

It's time to cut the crap- and start holding people accountable for the words that they let come out of their mouth.

So I came across a post in another thread which I found rather interesting:

Remember- A real teacher will not tell you what to expect They will teach you how to mentaly condition yourself in the dreaming state so as to understand what is real and what is imagined.

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this method, what it entails, or how the mechanisms behind it work. Is it akin to learning lucid dreaming, in which you distinguish between reality and the dream state, so you know your dreaming, except in this case you can distinguish between things that are real and things that are not when you meditate? Something else?

Anyone who has any insights, it'd be great to hear from you!

"Relaxing Into Your Being" - B.K. Frantzis

"The Great Stillness" - B.K. Frantzis

"Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" - B.K. Frantzis

For an astounding mix of theory, philosophy, and practices to embody that philosophy.

How does that statement support the fact that it can be objectively verified for OTHER people?

Person 1 is separated from Person 2. Person 3 comes up with a random picture, and gives it to Person 2 after everyone is separated. Person 1 in OBE goes into room that Person 2 is in, observes the picture that Person 2 has, then comes back. Person 1 tells what he or she saw to person 4. Person 4 then goes and verifies it with the observer, person 5, and the data is recorded to see if the match is good.

(or if you are doing this at home, just get a friend in another room to draw a picture, or write large number on a big piece of paper very clearly, or have a very unique object, which you do not know about beforehand, and verify it- of course, the more people you have and the more checks you have, the more you can eliminate the possibility that someone got hints before the OBE).

This experiment is done repeatedly, and over the course of many trials is compared to how statistically probable it is that Person 1 could receive the information. Other people do the experiment with someone who can have OBE's. New experiments are set up to protect against bias or flaws in the experiment design.

With this set up, you can prove that someone can obtain information using non-physical (as we understand it) means.

No I didn't.

 

You project your own common man understanding of OBE onto me.

 

I bet you believe the soul leaves the body, and if you sever the silver cord you die.

You do realize that I quoted the very post in which you made the claim, right?

I'll do it again, please read:

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

 

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

I never claimed these things can be objectively verified.

Yes you did

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

 

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

For these things to be objectively verified only one person needs to be convinced - you -

That is, by very definition, subjective

and you are not a circus monkey performing for peanuts.

I see this attitude a lot, and find it falls somewhere on the spectrum between amusing and ridiculous.

Testing something out, and having it verified by external sources, is a good way of finding out whether what you think is going on is actually going on. I don't know how familiar you are with cognitive bias, but there are LOTS of ways the human mind can trick itself into believe what it wants to believe, regardless of reality.

Again, if you want to talk about other realms or planes of existence, different modes of looking at the world, that's one thing, and can't really be verified objectively. In which case, you can believe whatever you want, you can prove it to yourself in whatever way you want.

However, claims that frequently surround OBE's and psychic abilities, such as the ability to receive accurate information about something else which can be verified by objective third parties, can easily be verified in a manner befitting the current scientific method. And if anyone expects those claims to carry any sort of legitimacy, they should be verified.

That those who claim to be able to do stuff only insult or belittle those asking for objective testing is sketchy, to say the least. Again, it's your prerogative to have a private life, but just remember, the burden of proof lies with the party making the claims. Don't turn it around and blame the audience, because that doesn't help your case at all.