Kundaolinyi

With all due respect to the thread starter, no, you are not the only one Pero.

I think I kinda hear ya. I'm not trying to say 5 elemental alchemy isn't realy. I'm just saying it isn't the original truth. I think you're right, that we have to start with what we have, but like the old saying goes 'you can't begin to solve a problem until you recognize that you have one'. Look everyone, forget the talk about phases and the philosphy of it, and just think of your organs and meridians corisponding to each organ. Every single one of them has to work together and create a balanced whole. With 5 element alchemy( water, fire, wood, metal, earth), the final product, the fusion of different qi from running the creation/destruction cycles, will always be overly yin. The qi qill be overly yin, the emotions will be overly yin, and the manifest physical form will be overly yin.

Actually I've been practicing in line with these theories for quite some time and have enjoyed some results, but I didn't really want insult anyone by presenting it as fact. In most traditional 5 element systems I've come across, it is not taught that Heaven is is part of the 5 elemental cycles. Even when talking about 5 phases (rather than the physical manifestations of organs) in the context of, lets say, seasons. Yes they DO need to be balanced. If summer lasts to long and gets too hot, things burn. If winter lasts too long and gets too cold, things die from lack of warmth and growth. I don't think the simple math I've done is too complex at all. It's actually VERY simple. To be more specific, I was talking about the physical manifestation of organs in the body, which take form of a 5 element system. I am quite convinced that the suposed 'imortal body' was not a 5 elemental system. But I think there is no unity in oness. What are we talking about here?

Same place as the telepath, I would guess.

If Hua Hu Ching is wiser than a telepath who comunicates directly with the mind, then is the illiterate man wiser than Hua Hu Ching who comunicates so skillfully with a pen? Quite an 'ability' he has. "And you wise men don't know how it fee-hee-hee-heals to be thick... as a brick." **flute playes** Smart is dumb and dumb is smart. Or, we're just saying 'sour grapes'. Even I'm not sure which one.

From my perspective, yes conserving Jing is necessary to accomplish ____. That being said, whether conserving jing is realistic or wise for the individual practice at the moment is entirely another matter. Each individual has a genetic predisposition for a specific alchemy and body structure. If not, we would all be more identicle than identicle twins at birth. There are body structures that are actually harmed by an over abundance of jing/qi/shen, and thus the body searches for an outlet. In practice, we tend to relieve these symptoms by getting the right energy in the right places (alchemy), getting the energy to flow through the safest paths, and storing the energy in the correct spots. Then all that's required is making sure we have a better 'path of least resistance' for the energy to flow, rather than flowing out. Unfortunately, unless a person can change his/her genetics permenantly, the body has a tendacy to sorta just 'slip' back into it's original inherited form eventually. For a person who has a poor body structre, it can actually be dangerous to build up great amounts of energy, even if the energy is regulated through proper alchemy, and the structure is temporarily altered by qigong... eventually, the energy required to sustain the desired form, (contrary to the genetic memory), will exceed the benefits of retaining other forms of energy, and the body will fall apart into its inherited form, while having a ton of leftover energy from the practice that can now not be regulated. Then comes the side effects. Like this, even someone who knows a ton about how to regulate thier jing-qi-shen can still end up with side effects that a noob getting in too deep would experience. Masters often talk about qi 'blockages' from stored 'memories' from past injuries, or bad habbits. I never come across anyone who talks about blockages that stem from genetic memories though, and yet it's true. 'Average' people usally don't have to face such a thing, and if you're wondering what I'm talking about, you're probably one of the lucky ones. The real question is, even if Jing retention is necesary, (which I believe it is), how do I change my genetics into a form that can actually do what is required of me? I have, on many occasions, transformed my body through qigong, and used the temporary new form to practice alchemy... but getting it perfect, and making it stick.... Do you know how to learn internal skills on a genetic level? It is literally impossible to transmute jing-->---qi---> shen in my inherited form. I cannot change my inherited form for more than a few seconds before the contradiction between 'proper form' and my genetic form changes me back. Solutions? Anyone?

It seems I may have stumbled upon an interesting message board. By fate or by chance, I came across this thread while googling- http://www.thetaobums.com/Things-We-Dont-K...stem-t5664.html ^That was enough to get me to sign up for sure. My name is Steve and I'm looking to converse with other like minded people. Unfortunately, I don't often come across anyone who I truly relate to past a certain level. Still, I have high hopes for this place My Story- As a child, I found many things about my body to be 'off'. I did not yet recognize the importance of such findings, but to explain it simply, my birth inheritance is a horrible twisted uneven body with extremely poor qi flow. This terrible condition, yet unrecognized by western doctors, manifested many several 'symptoms' such as inability to concentrate without my thoughts 'resetting', an inability to stand on both feet evenly, and twitching (also known as 'ticks') on the right side of my body. Never had any doctor assimilated all those symptoms and more into a single condition of which I recognize as my genetic blueprint. My inability to deal with such issues lead me to momentary escapes like drugs when I was in high school. Around the age of 18, I began to grow a fighting spirit within and started turning my life around. For me, running, and more specifically, lifting weights, was the main focal point of change for me. After 5 years of lifting like my life depended on it, I still couldn't get past the oddities of my body, (and brain) and found progress to be impossible due to the fact that my body rejected training stimulation, and my structure could not deliver power evenly and safely no matter how I tried to maintain standards of western exercise form. At least by this point I had quit drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. It was also around this time, after 5 years of lifting, that I got really into Dragon Ball Z. (yes, I know, red flag in the qigong world, but please read on ) In my great desire to become a 'Super Saiyan' while lifting, I had to ask myself- "What is the real world equivalent to the power seen in Dragon Ball Z?" I remembered reading about taijijuan when I was younger from a book my Uncle borrowed me. I researched 'Chi" online and started looking at qigong books. Like a miracle, or a Trueman Show like phenomenon , my uncle gave me the book 'Iron Shirt Chi Kung I' by Mantak Chia. He had not read it himself, but figured I might be interested. (I didn't tell him I was researching it either) After reading much of the introduction, about such things as pumping the blood with the stomach, packing chi, and whatnot... I decided then and there- I was going to study this book for 3 years and 'master' it. So that's what I did, not knowing the golden rules about finding a teacher, I persisted. During this time, I read 'Awaken the Healing Light' and 'Taoist Secrets of Love:', but didn't get much out of them because of my difficulty grasping the eastern concepts. Iron Shirt 1, however, really opened a whole other world for me. I was able to replace the word 'chi' with words like 'pressure psi' and 'ground reaction force' to continue training, and leave the 'chi' stuff on the back burner until I understood more. By the time I had been practicing through trial and error and careful study for 2 years, I started reading a few other books, like those from Dr. Yang Ming Jwing. Also, I began working on 'Fusion of the Five Elements 1'. During these times, I practiced sometimes 8 hours a day, until I quit my job, attempted to become a 'hermit' or 'monk' and gave up many worldly ways and things in hopes to cure my condition. There's nothing like being born as the example of what can go wrong in qigong to make you learn qigong. Not kidding or exaggerating. By the end of the three years, I started focusing my studies on the eye, the third eye, insight, genetics, and the brain, in hopes to gain rapid learning so that I could relieve my suffering. I began studying Rayid, Iridology, and am now studying Sclerology as a side study. I also started writing my own qigong/internal alchemy formulas for developing overlapping visual and visualization skills, and spiritual vision and insight skills. These practices seemed to give results, however I wont go into them too much, but ultimately they also needed to be conjoined with my original needs, and thus I found it necessary to create alchemic formulas for aligning iris structures with the brain and body in order to fine tune corrections to the body and qi flow. I studied Iron Shirt 2 for about a year, but had a little trouble with that one for a while, but I'm really starting to benefit from that training now. I've taken much from those books and formulated my own technique and methodology that has been necessary to deal with my condition. I've come to discover truths about the body that most qigong practitioners are never forced to deal with, so in that respect, I feel as if I'm an authority on the topic (who isn't an authority of their own life experience after all?), however, I'm also a learner still. I'm now at a point in my personal training where I feel as if Iron Shirt 3 is needed, but further insight into the basic practices is also needed. I've looked for a teacher on more than one occasion, but none impress me very much as Mantak Chia, and I just don't have the money to visit him at his resort. Even now, my own qigong/neigong is entirely different than any qigong/neigong that exists (that I'm aware of). I feel like I'm really on to something unique and capable of changing the world of qigong/internal alchemy, but I also am only about 5 years into my personal training. At this point, I'm still convinced that solo learning is the only possible option for me, as I have not found a teacher that addresses my needs, though they are all good at teaching normal people. No doctor nor teacher has ever 'got it', but I'm posting here because many of you have practiced similar things as I have, and who knows.... maybe I'll find some one like me, or someone who DOES know how to deal with the problems I'm facing. Still, I currently consider myself the world's authority on how to temporarily transform my body into more advanced states from my starting point. Sorry for the long story, but whoever didn't want to read it probably skipped it anyway. I'm open to answer any questions, there's a lot of things I didn't explain very in depth. ~Steve

Thanks for the welcomes!