erdweir

Your'e welcome. Thanks for putting in the effort to help me too. That's what this place is for. All of this stuff reminds me of who I am too, it puts me in touch with my better nature. I didnt have the connection you found with martial arts teachers and exorcists, if I had then maybe when I could't sleep at night as a teenager, just like you, i could have gotten some help. Instead I got thown out of the house for being a drug addict when i was anything but. You know, I have only been doing this Taoist stuff for a year, but it has made me think back over my life in different ways. I realized I had been feeling Chi in my body for a long time. As a teenager, I would lie in bed sleepless and the room would grow very small, and my body would grow very large. I could feel the gravity field of my own body and other weird stuff. sometime this is called Alice in Wonderland Syndrome or Lewis Carroll Syndrome. These feelings were connected with great heat in my body and redness and itching in my skin. sometimes I would also perceive a liquid chrome sphere that was simultaneously larger than the universe and smaller than a quark. I would lie there with the distorted room buzzing with this strange apparition in my minds eye, very lifelike. when I would go to school exhausted the next day I would get taken to the nurses office and accused of doing drugs. thank you nancy reagan. I mentioned that I have been trying to contact my higher self, But maybe I should give more detail. After I do the fusion of the five elements, sometimes my head is filled with light. I open up my head like a flower, and this white plant with red flower buds snakes out like a vine, and starts searching around the room. I extend it up through the layers of mist and connect with a dark colored marbled rainbow sphere which feeds me energy down through the flower into my body. After doing this for a couple of months, I had a dream where this thing appeared, a large square sectioned bar, also rainbow colored but is searing electric hues. It was one of those dreams where the vision is of an intensity that makes what we call waking reality pale in comparison. It beamed this energy into me and all of these brown insects and spiders started exploding out of me and being blown to pieces. Last night before I went to bed I called this bar down into my body to try and invoke my higher self. Perhaps it worked? dont know.

Thanks for the replies guys. I found the experience pleasant, quite nice actually. None of the fear and disorientation reported above, but I havent left my body yet. Any advice on how to handle it when it does happen? and does everybody think this is a pre OBE or is there another explanation?

Good Idea I have actually been thinking about this too, but I was thinking more along the lines of how we needed a Taoist Wiki. The Taobums is great, there is allot of knowledge here, but what if we organized it, compiled it and made it really accessible? Made articles about teachers, schools, traditions, concepts, practices, books, history, etc. perhaps I am dreaming, but there is software for creating your own Wiki out there. We just have to decide to do it.

Darebak, It does't matter if you are a slacker and a noob, and you dont have to represent anyone but yourself. I slack off too, and I am no expert on any of this, but we come here to share our experiences and knowledge. Perhaps you could just tell your story? Maybe you are afraid that some people will criticize and judge you, but I wont... I just want to hear what you have to say.

Thanks for the reply. I didnt feel any paralysis, in fact, i shifted around in my bed every few minutes while it was happening. I did feel energy coming up my spine, both in streams and bubbles. the rest of your experience sounds unfamiliar to me. The type of energy i describe was not hardened, but i know it's had to describe this shit in normal language. at no time did i leave my body, I felt more like something was coming in to my body rather than me leaving it

I would be interested in hearing a detailed account of what practices you learned, which teacher you went to, and what they did for you. And do you think these practices are widespread or does David have something special here? BTW, my interest is genuine, I am not trying to draw you out so I can criticize you. I would genuinely like to hear about it.

No loud buzzing. I take it you mean an Out of Body Experience? So, you think I am in for some really weird shit huh? Sounds interesting. Can you tell me more about how it started for you? How can you be so sure that this is what's happening to me? I am not trying to be skeptical, I just would like to hear more details to help me make sense of it. Can can you suggest any specific reading? books or websites? I know I can just google it but it sounds like you have read allot of this stuff, maybe you could make a good suggestion. Thanks for the reply

Ouch

You dont have to be serious, do whatever you want... People talk about these things, we are trying to figure it our here together. I am not saying all that Mantak Chia is all bad, nor Michael Winn or David Veresi, etc. I am happy i discovered Mantak Chia's books but I find them confusing and lacking in some ways. Even though I find them flawed, they introduced me to this world, and helped me too, so I am grateful nonetheless. My reservations are just from my point of view of course, but I have my reasons. The ethical issues of publishing untried methods should be taken seriously. As far as yapping, I agree with you. This controversy doesn't show the best of everybody. On the other hand, people need to talk. I appreciate being able to hear everyone's thoughts, even if they arent always expressed in the most balanced way.

ok, if you are telling the truth, I stand corrected, but I am hardly jumping to conclusions. Winn says this in the Healing Tao Forum, and weren't the Kan and Li books published before the darkness retreat was built a few years ago? The books carry the date of 2002. This spat started four years later, in 2006, and that is when Winn admits Chia never practiced Kan and LI, and that he(Winn) had to learn it form some disembodied immortals.

I agree, I was shocked that Winn actually admitted that Chia had never even practiced Kan and Li. It's no surprise that Sean has criticisms of a system that is really untested at the high levels and has such great claims too. But good for Winn for being honest about it at least. Still trying to defend it after that is a bit confusing though.. neither of them comes across as being all that balanced in my opinion, And neither of them really answers all of the other's points. It confirms allot of my suspicions and raises some new ones.

excuse me for being a total bonehead, but what is the Lower Jiao? And could you elaborate on the harmonizing you are talking about. I just noticed you are the guy who has the AlcTao website. Good site! Thanks for putting it out there. I Agree with your opinion that the Healing Tao is missing a few things. Especially some stillness meditation and stretching. I have been thinking recently that you should do that first, before the MO. Would you agree?

YMWong, how would you describe the difference between the Quanzhen Daoists and those practicing in private? What is it that the private ones are doing that the government doesn't approve of? Of course there is the meat eating being discussed here but then meat isn't illegal in China. I have read that they don't approve of Shen practices or sexual cultivation. I am more skeptical about the Shen reports, because I can find descriptions of mentioning Shen on websites based in China. On the other hand no websites I have seen for internal alchemy in China describe sexual cultivation. Is there something about this China considers hard to handle or is it something else? You mention quiet, but what are you contrasting it to? Also, I was under the impression (perhaps false) that the Dragon Gate sect was the most widespread. Would you dispute this or would you classify this as a derivative of the Quanzhen sect? Thank you.

It's not off topic, its part of doing the MO.. no excuse needed I just followed the instructions in Mantak Chia's Awaken the Healing Energy of the Tao, which just says to focus your attention of you navel. Navel gazing indeed! He recommends 15 minutes of this twice a day. after a few days, I could feel some warmth, after a week it was very intense. after two weeks it started to have a life of it's own. How long it takes and how intense it gets is supposed to vary in the person. Check out the book for complete instructions, also his other book Awaken the Healing Energy of the Tao has more instructions and complementary practices I wish I had known about in the beginning.. like the spinal breathing which he puts in the index, which should really be in the beginning, as it helps loosen up blockages in the spine. I had major blockages and charging right in didn't end up being that pleasant for me. running strong chi up against a major blockage is pretty nasty.

I like the sound of this. When I first tried to do it all i got was this cold little stream that looked like mercury to me. I didn't think anything was happening so i put it aside. later, when i had a better (but still not quite right) idea of how to proceed, I spent weeks warming up chi in the navel before i tried to move it. It was hot and intense enough to hurt a little. when you get it that present it doesn't weaken when your attention wavers. moving chi this strong isnt easy when you are going through a channel that is used to just a cold trickle. I should have worked up to it gradually instead of going in all gung ho all at once. It gave me a big scare when I got to this block in my spine, which i could have avoided, but I just didnt realize it at the time. now that i am doing the five element fusions, i am getting these weird red segmented worms bubbling up my spine once in a while. dont know what to think about that yet, but it just seems to be another layer. a few times, just a few, i did it strong enough and long enough to change my consciousness. I am still not sure exactly how i did it, but i feel like even this was just a pale foreshadowing of what is to come. It probably gets very intense.

Dao Zhen, how is it there? I have been thinking about making the trip lately. have you lived at any of these monasteries? Are you practicing any particular sects meditations? If so, why did you settle on that one over the others? Who is your teacher, if you dont mind me asking? Can you give some account of the differences between the sects? How expensive is it to go on a retreat there? Have you been to any other areas in china that offer internal alchemy training? Like Mt. Huashan? Sorry for the flood of questions, but I would appreciate hearing about your experience more. I feel like I have to go make the plunge sometime in the next year, but dont know where to go exactly. I got into this stuff from Mantak Chia's books, like allot of other people, but I don't really trust something about the healing tao system and organization. maybe it's the weird stem cell machines on his website, or the 24 year old woman he just knocked up, or the prominent published student who lost his mind, the flakey teachers i have met, etc. So I have been poking around on the web looking for retreats but most of the Wudang websites I have found are martial arts oriented, and I am more interested in the internal alchemy. Thanks. I have enjoyed reading your posts.

there are various ways to get the orbit going, i dont think any particular one is correct. Mantak Chia seems to be in the minority as far as synchronizing the breath goes, he says it is not important, where as most writers who use the method of directing the chi by intention stress this. Filling up the Dantien is another method, this is a little less intention based, but still uses the mind to fill the Dantien but not start the orbit. I have read that Internal Martial arts like Tai Chi and Bagua will open up your orbit as a by product of their movements, maybe moving QiGong forms work this way as well. This is the least intention based, the chi is supposed to start moving on its own after doing the movements for a while. Most of the internal alchemy people seem to use the intention based method but not all of them. There are probably more methods than just these three, and various combinations and hybrid methods.

I have been orbiting for about a year. I learned from Chia's books. There are other names for it, like the small heavenly cycle, which just sounds like an alternate translation of the same thing. Anybody know the Chinese? Charles Luk's book places allot of importance in it, as does Yang Jwing Mings Books. It's very widespread in all of the Chinese Neidan practices as far as i know. I Read somewhere in an article about western internal alchemy (yes, it does exist) that in Europe it was known as the golden ring. What i noticed about it was that I had too much energy stuck in my head, and was too one sidedly intellectual and rational, much like western society in general. when i started doing this, allot of my internal conflicts quieted, and I got allot better at seeing through other people's emotional disturbances instead of being confused and offended by them. I got allot better at dealing with my own too. One time when I did the orbit for two hours i ended up with some kind of heightened awareness where i could see people's emotional problems and body problems as one thing, and it was really disturbing. I was out on the street in san francisco and i felt like i was surrounded by madmen. maybe part of it was my own distorted perspective but i dont think so. it felt too real. Kind of like being on acid but without the confusion or side effects. I have orbited so fast that i can hear a sound in my head like a helicopter blade. I have had various snakes and worms crawl up my back, etc. I think if you try to go straight for the real serious Kan and Li stuff without doing all of the preliminaries like the MO, you could be in for a real nightmare, the proverbial "Dark Night of the Soul". Allot of the Taoist techniques are there to spare you this, and other things like the kind of Kundalini torture Gopi Krisha describes. work form a solid foundation.

One of my favorite films, seen it many times, on the big screen in the castro theatre in SF. I actually met Jodrowsky at a screening in seattle, he gave a talk, it was great fun. Read El Topo, the book of the film, for his views in print. Holy Mountain is based on Mount Analogue: A Novel of Symbolically Authentic Non-Euclidean Adventures in Mountain Climbing a surrealist novel writen by Rene Daumal, a member of the french para-surrealist art group the Grand Jeu here is an excerpt: Mountain Climbing Daumal was a disciple of Gurdjieff, and Jodorowsky was influenced by him as well.

I love Paul Laffoley, man he is out there! he gives lectures for ten hours straight on time travel, higher dimensions, all kinds of madness. But Tom Otterness? He treated my friend who worked for him like shit.. Ever hear of David Altmejd? Or Birch Hayes? (Myself) check out my website for more goodies http://www.birchhayes.com/index.html

There is a page about Qigong and Aids here DaMo Qigong I dont know anything about these people, I just found the page poking around on the internet. What they are recommending is pretty serious, six hours of practice a day, total stillness, careful attention to diet, herbs, etc. They also say you should keep taking the drugs you would be getting form a western doctor, which is prudent, I suppose, but it makes you wonder.

Do you know anything about the Wudang Deutschland school here in Berlin? Or Ismet Himmet, the main teacher there? supposedly he trained on Wudang for years. I was thinking about going in for some lessons there...

oh am i? yes you are right, i just checked it..

Good, thoughtful reflective answers, and good for you for opening up on a sensitive topic. I dont know what to recommend to you now though, the foreskin thing sounds rough, and performance anxiety is nasty. maybe read up on some taoist sexual practices? there are answers. If you are involved in such heavy therapy, do you really need more answers though? maybe what you need is patience... loading yourself up with more therapy when you are doing allot already might be pushing it. and maybe try to forgive your father, for whatever he did. believe me I know how hard that can be, I am still working on it myself, but try to put it behind you. just work on it, it takes time, and maybe the therapy will help with that too, it's all connected

I was just doing the introductory Healing Tao stuff, microcosmic orbit, six healing sounds, and inner smile, together with grounding and so forth. My hair loss what brought on by heartbreak. I had been in a succession of ruinous relationships with fantastically beautiful younger women. Every time I got my guts stomped out by these vixens, I would fall into a depression and I would get more grey hairs and my hairline would thin a bit more. doing the Tao basics from Chia's books stabilized my emotions, stopped the grief and my hair thanked me. I was doing the meditations for at least two hours a day. also drinking, eating sugar and caffeine made my hair fall out. From the western perspective I would say i have a weak pancreas since all of those things mess with your blood sugar level and insulin is produced in the Isles of Langerhans inside the pancreas. My grandfather was also diabetic. Excess blood sugar leads to excess testosterone leads to excess skin oils leads to too much bacteria on the scalp leads to hair loss.