soaring crane

nothing to see here folks... just trolling along...

I'm mostly wondering why the thread wasn't started on April 1st...

The thing that really toasts me is, these guys think we Americans are greedy and stupid.

Geee.... I wonder where they would ever get that impression.

Which little golden bubble of xenophobia do you live in? You think there are no Americans running scams out there? Puh-lease.

When I practice still standing, I start with my hands holding a ball in front of my lower Dantian. Then I blow the ball up using my stomach muscles. The ball lifts my arms to chest or head height and I just rest my hands and arms on the ball. For a half hour or more. With no strain, no concentration, no mental tricks.

For me, Qi is real, tangible. I like the description, forget who said it first, that Qi is the energy form between the material and energetic planes. It material "decaying" into the energetic and it's energy "manifesting" into the material. It's the state of change in and of itself.

And it flows, in and through all of us and everything.

The Shiatsu system is very different, at least as it's been performed on me. There's no way the Japanese could ever adapt anything from the Chinese without altering it drastically to make it their "own".

When discussing organs in terms of TCM and Qigong, I think it's best to think in terms of organ qi and not the organs themselves. The Chinese system works this way to balance out Yin and Yang in the body.

For example, the kidney qi isn't diagnosed based on the function of the kidneys in the western sense but rather on the function of the organ qi associated with them. That qi is responsible for many important things, such as bone marrow and sexual drive. So, a weakness in one of those areas would indicate a weakness in the kidney qi. And kidney qi in this sense probably won't be boosted by stimulation of the Shiatsu "kidney" point on the hand.

If the Shiatsu practitioner (i'm speculating) has points for the same organ on the hands and the feet, he's probably describing points specifically for the organ itself, similar to reflexology. There are plenty of those in the TCM system as well and they could be located anywhere on any meridian.

Just look at the bladder meridian. Those organ points, as far as I know and I well could be wrong, directly affect the organs themselves.

As far as resources, google would be a good place to start. "Shiatsu Meridian System"...

 

I dunno. There were only three black disks that were in line vertically. I'm almost positive that these were the three treasures:

jing, chi, and shen....

When I wrote last time, I was thinking more along the lines of a purely spontaneous image but after reading through your personal practice list, I can see why it would be so heavily Dantian-biased. Fantastic stuff.

Have you planned any training breaks? Please be careful.

With your inner smile... I think it comes from embryonic breathing which involes projecting pureness, the unspoiled original self. Hmm... my German is better for this kind of thing. But what I do is a facial meditation. Relax the face, the forehead, eyes, jaws, ears... the whole head. And let a little smile form itself on the lips.

Then slowly pull the smile inward, something along the lines of the foot breathing I described, until you feel it in the middle of your brain. And then just continue along the same path but direct it downward, slowly, until it "lands" in the lower dantian. And feel Dantian smiling

And from there, the smile can grow and project itself outward through your whole system. The smile on your lips becomes just a reflection of the smile in your belly

But I really think it's best done in connection with gentle ubilical breathing and not a lot of complicated work or concentration on dogmatic systems. But, ymmv.

I just finished my own evening practice and was thinking about this thread, so here I am again... I hope my previous post didn't sound pessimistic or discouraging, it was only meant to be honest and helpful.

I was thinking... sitting for an hour might just not be the right thing for you. And highly structured, strict Taiji forms are close to impossible to learn without a teacher. Sponatneous, artistic Qigong exercises might be better suited for you. If I were in your shoes, I would try this.

Start with some very vigorous exercise. I often utilize versions of wood-chopping and shaking, slapping exercises in the beginning of my evening courses to get people to let go of the stress of the day. I could give you some tips, it's all very easy.

And then try to create your own movements. Base everything around your breath. For example, one very effective meditation is to move on the exhale. Move something, anything, whatever it is that wants to move, let it, on the exhale. Let some sounds come up from your gut, too. Remain motionless on the inhale.

There are so many variations on this theme, but it all comes down to getting in touch with your center.

And after you do that, try standing like a tree for five... ten... fifteen... twenty minutes.

There are so many ways available to pass an hour. I think you might just have to experiment a little till you find yours. At first, you'll find things that you don't like, which sounds like what you've experienced so far. If you have to force yourself to do something, then do something else.

I am addicted to watching tv, to playing games and to reading the latest gossip news (paris hilton etc). This is what i do in my free time. It is hard for me just to sit there motionlessly for 1 hour or to do tai chi, for example. I am just weak, incapable and pathetic.

Are you very active when you zone out in front of the tube or do you sit there motionlessly? What's the difference between sitting in front of the tube for an hour and actively meditating for an hour? Anwser: in the second case, you find yourself alone with yourself.

If it's as bad as you describe, really "addicted", then I really think you should break the addiction. TV has this way of bringing you further from your true center than other drugs, imo. And vicarious emotional experiences can still leave real scars. Problem is, since they have no basis in your life, they can also bring confusion and contradiction, and can become almost impossible to solve.

Later you wrote: "Qigong is about working with energy. Work can be hard. I think it is important to be hard to oneself but i am not able to be it myself. If you only practice when you want to do it then surely only few would train daily for so long periods of time. Today, i forced myself to train one hour in the morning."

Well, training for an hour is always good. Forcing yourself to do it.... not so good. It's a contradiction. And are you really convinced that "it is important to be hard to oneself"? Why? Where did you learn that?

I really think you have to find what it is that's holding you back from pursuing what seems like a dream for you. There's some kind of blockage, maybe just old habits. Doing it on your own is probably not going to work. If you can find a decent teacher and make a commitment to a course of study, you may find yourself opening up over time.

Ever thought about past-life regression therapy? It can be tricky but if you have someone very competent and loving to aid you, it can be a real eye-opener. Third-eye, too

I mean inept in terms of expression.

Thanks... I realized afterwards what you meant. We can't use a word to describe the indescribable and even the best attempt will be in vain. But for the sake of communication, we have to agree on something. Sounds vaguely familiar, lol.

But I'm surprised you don't see what I'm getting at by not making Dao a substantive, a noun. Making Dao a noun brings "it" firmly within the realm of consious thought, of human affairs, so to speak. "The" Dao indicates that there must be something that is not "the" Dao. But true Dao "exists" (horrible word for it but I can't think of a better one at the moment) outside all of that. Dao has no opposite, no synonym, no comparison, no metaphor, no definition. Not even a purpose.

And no article, lol. Not really. But for the sake of conversation...

In Chinese, it's just, "Dao" and that makes it much easier to move a little baby step closer to perceiving "it", for me anyway.

Try meditating on the imponderable. It can be quite soothing

 

1- The Tao is indeed a more appropriate usage-the Tao says nothing. It is just an inept word to discribe a mental concept/construct.

Inept?

I dunno... I think the article turns Dao into a substantive and all substantives have something to say.

Like Chaos. There's the chaos on my desktop and then there's Chaos as a ruling force in the universe. When I meditate on Chaos, then the chaos seems rather small, trivial, which is a good thing

 

To begin, creative visualization is mandatory. In fact, it's a moot point to even discuss it's neccessity....

I used to think the same thing but I've learned otherwise. There are ways of contacting your Qi flow without resorting to imagery.

I did this with a group of housewives last week.

We did foot breathing. Lying down comfortably on your back, hands on the Xia Dantian (or not), legs together, toes pointing upward. On the inhale, we tense the balls of the feel a little, pulling "upward" and on the exhale just let the tension go. We stay focussed on the feet and on the physical action. For a little while.

Then I instructed them to consciously lower the amount of tension. With each breath, tense/move the feet intentionally less. And less... and less... After not too many breaths, the movement automatically transfers to the inside and it becomes an energetic, Qi movement. The mind is totally focussed on moving the Qi, just a hair below the level of physical movement. It's like a sliding scale.

At that point, we guided the movement up to the knees, then the hips and then through the spine and as far as Mingmen.

And then I had them focus on the lower Dantian which worked better than at other times. Total time was about 15-20 minutes.

All of them understood the instruction and could follow it more or less easily. One had a great Qi experience when she felt channels opening in her legs and mingmen getting warm as her head cooled.

So... there are way for beginners to go about these things without visualizing. Maybe not for all aspects but I'm not sure on that either. And as my teacher says, when you're working with images, you're working in your head.

 

I saw the flash of light in the phosphenes on the back of my eyelids and the lights were off in the room.

When I meditate these days, I lay in bed with a sleep mask over my eyes and the shades down. I start in a fashion similar to what I described in my other post and once I get into the Qi movement, it becomes very light behind my closed eyes, behind the sleep mask and behind the shades. Not a "flash", though, more like a sunrise.

Once or twice I've gotten distracted by fractal patterns and din't feel they were healthy. I don't know why. It's got to be connected with the third eye but is it a healthy opening or a blockage?

I think seeing the Dantians would only happen if it were your intention from the outset, but maybe not. A Yoga practitioner would assign the image to chakras.

Hi lengthy,

You're confusing one particular book, as important a book as it may be, with "Dao". Dao isn't found in any book. It isn't really found anywhere, I suppose. It's perceptible in nature. And when you come closer to your natural self, perceptible in you.

Regarding "not competing", you can remain in the game without losing contact with your natural self, with Dao. As soon as you play to win, though, you've become egotistical and no matter the score when the final whistle blows, you've lost a little of your natural self. Hence, you win by not competing - but you gain by playing. Others can't compete with you because they're not playing the same game as you.

Btw, just a general statement, adding the article "the" to Dao is a way of moving Dao closer to the human scale, instead of the other way around.

Hi,

I'm interested in the Huang-t'ing Ching meditation method from Wei Huacun/Wei Hua-ts'un. I've had Michael Saso's book, "The Gold Pavillion" for a number of years now and although I wholeheartedly trust his translation, the techniques are pretty difficult to glean from it. Are there any other guides available that go a little more in-depth into the methods themselves?

Also, any good informative books regarding the Highest Pure sect of Taosim?

 

omphaloskepsis is a perfect Fictionary word. Now to find someone to play...

 

Craig

 

Hi Craig,

you may enjoy a browse through the Wordsmith archives:

http://wordsmith.org/awad/themes.html

Cast a glance at the third category under Februrary 2007

Hi,

this was the word of the day at "A Word A Day" and it made me smile to think that there's a word for it

Even better that it starts with "Om", although that may apply better to contemplating the Baihui.

here's the rest of the post:

[From Greek omphalos (navel) + skepsis (act of looking, examination).

Ultimately from the Indo-European root spek- (to observe) which is

also the ancestor of suspect, spectrum, bishop (literally, overseer),

despise, espionage, telescope, spectator, and spectacles.]

Piece,

SC

Any thoughts here on Mingmen and Dazhui pertaining to these exercises?

Trunk, your essay on sacrum pulsing is interesting. Although I've learned to draw Qi through the sacrum, I've only viewed it a connection between Weilu and Migmen, or, better, Huiyin/Weilu/Mingmen.

So I'm wondering how you (all) view the role of these gates in your exercise. And also Dazhui, the seventh neck vertebrae. The big Yang train station, so to speak. Dazhui is probably the hardest gate for most people to open and moreover, to keep from closing quickly.

In my modest practice till now, I've concentrated a lot more on the points than the paths between them, but I'm getting a pleasant new perspective here, thank you.

Finally my true question is am I silly for finding this tugging at my heart strings and almost illiciting tears as it is only a cartoon...

I just want to add that cartoons don't animate themselves any more than books write themselves. A person with a heart put some love into the story. So, no, I don't think you're silly.

 

Too much food for a fast IMHO

I may have made it sound like a lot but the things I take in are in tiny quantities, except the tea maybe. I also lose flesh very, very quickly, and really don't have much to lose to begin with, which is another reason I won't do an absolutely strict fast for 17 days. In my post I also didn't mention that the first three or four days actually are strict. It's just water and tea.

On the fourth day, my energy should change and I'll shift into high gear. It's actually a very Yang experience for me. Light and awake. On about the tenth day, things will slow down and depending on how I'm doing I may stop sometime before the planned end, with no guilty feelings, lol. That's something else I had to work out.

For intestinal cleansing we have something called "glaubersalz", it's a salt but I don't know what it is in english. It works, that's for sure!

Ooops... I forgot that it's not much like Spring in some places. Here, winter never really came and the cherry trees are already pushing out buds.

 

You might add don't go swimming after eating a full meal.

I personally don't consider these taboos - I just wouldn't do them as they are harmful to me.

Wasting food is taboo to me.

I'm also of the same mind that these aren't "taboos", just sensible guidelines. Ok, the moon phases may head into the realm of taboo for some, but I'm pretty moon-sensitive and although I don't avoid Qigong on certain days I can still see a practical side to the argument.

Does a "taboo" have to have a sense of superstition before it becomes a taboo? Or, is one's man's sensible guideline another man's taboo?

O, I worked out my routine pretty well last year. Before that I just did water and tea and not very well structured. I'm sure I did myself more damage than good.

Now, I'll be taking in small amounts of protein in the form of various legumes and soy milk at breakfast time, and drinking blood-cleansing tea and a few plant extracts including Dandelion. Dandelion is liver-cleansing (if I remember correctly from last year) and there are other extracts for other organs, I have to go to the store and see which ones I'm going to use.

I'll start three days before with a little protein loading, fish, and cutting out carbs. On the evening before, I'll do a series of enemas or maybe use laxatives to clean out as well as possible. And do the same thing in the morning of the first day of the fast.

The protein is to halt the muscle loss.

I do it from the full to the new moon. Afterwards, I'll increase my protein intake and add some carbs. and ween myself off the tea and extracts.

It's obviously a time for reflection and meditation but also a time for activity, for me. The other mistake I used to make was thinking that I couldn't fast and just live my normal life at the same time.

We have a really excellent source for assistance in this kind of thing here in Germany. It's called the "Reform Haus" and I hesitate to call it a "Health Food Store" but that's the only term I know that comes close. The people are very, very well trained and they have products of only the highest quality. Their products come with a high price but considering how little I need, I can afford the best once a year

Are you in?

 

My motives are simply a want to better the world through bettering myself and helping those around me to do the same. ... So please dont think I have some unspoken motive, I just wish to be able to spread knowledge where it is requested and apply it to myself more than anything.

 

I thank you for your reply and I hope you can veiw me in a more positive light after this explanation

O, I didn't mean to imply anything negative or positive in my commetary, I'm sorry if it came accross that way. I was really just giving you the best advice I could think of. I question my own motives all the time and if I find they're selfish, I don't consider it negative, I just see it as a way of learning something about my current condition. I stray from my wished-for path plenty often enough to feel qualified to suggest looking for the signs. Does that make sense? It's a different version of "it takes one to know one", except of course, I don't know really you.

I had picked up on the way you said "help others find their own enlightenment" and just saw the potential of a trap you may (or very well may not) be setting up for yourself.

What you state about yourself and your motives sounds wonderful and your humbleness speaks very positively about you. Don't let it go to your head (that's the trap).

My refined advice: Stay true to your goal of bettering yourself and let the world sort itself out

 

Not sure, myself, about Spectrum's meaning, but the expression -"Beauty A"- reminded me of the well-known

Canadian slang term, "eh".

Had to laugh out loud now when I read your reply. The exact same thing occured to me earlier and I was going to ask Spectrum if he's Canadian. Ever see the movie "Strange Brew"? LOVE IT!

I was back at it this evening, about an hour ago, rolling on the gym ball and really getting into it. But, it turned into a bad experience, or rather a difficult experience as I think some good is coming out of it. I found myself in a meditative state, it was after a Qigong course and I was nicely relaxed and pretty well charged-up with Qi (any of you have experience with Xi Xi Ho walking?).

Anyway, I got into this rhythm of rolling from abdomen to chest and then turning over and rolling down from shoulders to lumbar, kind of a reverse, water-path MCO, if you follow me. I wasn't doing it particularly fast and it felt great for a few minutes but then I began to get weirdly disoriented, dizzy and nauseas, ala the first post in the current thread on the MCO, perhaps.

I stopped and just sat on one of the big gym balls and breathed deeply, feeling like absolute s**t. It took me about 5 minutes before I could stand up and drive home. I'm still feeling a little residual disorientation but generally I'm doing ok.

Thing is... I really think it's emotional. On the way home, I couldn't stop thinking about some difficult themes from my past, things that I never really solved, things I just sort of let "fade away" and probably had convinced myself that they no longer affected me.

Somehow, I think I found, with the help of this list and this thread, a very powerful tool, one that I've needed for many years but one that i'm now going to treat with more respect and less silliness. And I feel an overwhelming sense of gratitude.

That's not to suggest in the least that I think my experience means anything for anyone else or that I want give a "warning" or anything dogmatic like that. I'm sure this just my experience and I just wanted to share it.

Hi,

I'll be doing my yearly spring cleaning from the full moon to the new moon, Mar 3-18 and just thought I'd ask if anyone here has interest in joining me. A discussion of fasting techniques, experiences and tips would be good, too.