tongkosong

Why say that no Mo Pai practitioners have experienced this sensation?

What Neikung said was, "... intense heat that supposedly show completion of level 1 but those were completely false. No Mopai students ever had those "signs"."

He was referring to the heat as a sign of level 1 completion. We were never taught, by John Chang, nor measured our progress by this feeling of intense heat.

Jim was never appointed nor "certified" by anyone in Mopai as a teacher. He was a Westerner who met John Chang and were taught some meditation techniques. He came and met John Chang, at most, once a year, for a few days at a time. Truthfully, would a school consider such a person certifiable to teach? I'm not trying to belittle Jim or his accomplishments, but, we have to see this rationally. There's more to this story that is known to the public. Let's just leave it at that.

Take great care in trying out the Mopai training by yourself. We don't wish harm to come to anyone. The reason we started to post again was due to what Sabretooth described, which is not an optimal situation and could be dangerous.

After providing the instructions, the only John really did was gauge Jim's progress every so often. The training doesn't require that you be constantly monitored by a teacher.

Ken, this statement you made is actually wrong. Throughout Jim's training under John Chang, he had made numerous trip to see John Chang. Sure, gauging Jim's progress was one of the reasons he made those trips, but, the other big reason was for John Chang to look at his training; to see if there's anything that Jim was doing that needed corrections or advice on the training itself. I'm not going to disclose anything specific, but, remember that neigong is a powerful product of the training, so you should assume that the training itself has to be done correctly to avoid deviating from the correct technique, and any deviation from the correct technique can be deadly. Sure, the first few levels sound pretty easy and simple. However, one small mistake done numerous times for numerous years will be quite devastating to the body of the practitioner.

The reason how we know is because it had happened many times to a number of Mopai students, even those who had access to John Chang. Many times these students think that they are pretty smart and knowledgable about Qi and/or its theories and training methods. They tried to "improve" their training without asking for guidance. First, it's a small deviation of movement that felt more "comfortable" than how they were taught. Next, they "felt" their Qi and "know" how to guide it. Pretty soon, they will experience what we call Zou Huo Ru Mo. What Sabretooth is talking about is exactly the result of someone experiencing Zou Huo Ru Mo. Someone, a few years back, did have a mark in his palm after practicing incorrectly for quite a while. John Chang and another elder checked his condition and found that student to be in that state of Zou Huo Ru Mo. In that person's case, it was almost to the point of life-threatening. I, sincerely, hope that Sabretooth is no where close to that. The only thing to do is to stop whatever he is doing at once and get help.

We know that it's not realistic to ask Mopai enthusiasts to stop practicing "Mopai". I'm not going to argue the credibility of those techniques, and I have read them. I'm not going to argue that those techniques are actually identical to what John Chan taught Jim. We are adults and have to take responsibility to our actions. Our, Neikung and I, reason to comment on this forum is to remind you guys the pitfalls of training without REAL guidance from a REAL authentic Mopai teacher. i wish you guys well and be safe.

Thank you for your reply, I merely wished to hear your thoughts on this.

 

May I ask though, what are your thoughts on everything in this thread that was labeled as "real MoPai". Numerology, sorcery, magick and all that.

Truthfully, I try not to take side in any debate or arguments in this forum. I have no understanding about numerology. The 72 levels are referring to the number of xue dao(s) in our body. No clue as to the significance or relevance of the number 72 to anything else. The ability one gains through neigong allows a person to do many things and open his/her world to many things that an average person cannot. To label those abilities as "sorcery" or "magick", is just is, a label. Maybe when we have advanced our knowledge further, one day we shall call it science.

Tongkosong, thanks for your reply.

 

I fully understand, you cannot break the rules of the school. I also don't doubt you are a student of the MoPai school.

 

What I asked was, when you said that Jim's instructions are improper, are you OK with them being posted as "real MoPai"? Being an indoor student yourself, are you OK with everything that was posted in this thread, being posted as "real MoPai"? This was my question, as you seem to disagree with the lessons Jim gave.

Leo, I can't force people to stop labeling Jim's instructions as "real Mo Pai". I don't agree with it as it is not an accurate Mo Pai instructions. I can't stop anyone from doing anything, but, I felt it is my duty to let people know what the truth is. Many people have been using the Mo Pai's name for many things; some people used it for bad things. There was a website labeled as the official Mo Pai website, and we refuted it. There was a teacher saying that he himself is a student of the current Mo Pai headmaster, and we refuted that. All I, and my Mo Pai "brothers", can do is tell the truth and refute those that are untrue, in the hopes that people will not fall victim to false teachings and scammers.

Tongkosong,

I don't really doubt that you are an Indonesian student and I appreciate you taking the time to reply. If it is ok for me to ask, do you know if the school in China still exists?

Ken, as far as we know, there is no other Mo Pai school in China. The reason being, Liao qianbei, John Chang's teacher, was the only student of Pai Lok Nen qianbei, and Liao qianbei only had 2 students, John Chang and another (who has passed many years ago).

It seems to me that Chang was always in favor of it being taught to the west, considering the fact that he took 5 students in even though it put him in hot water. I can't say for sure whether or not Chang gave Jim direct permission, but he definitely wasn't "disrepecting" him. He was carrying out his wishes from what I can tell. Jim stated that Chang did give him direct permission to teach though and I have no reason not to believe him. What is your side of the story?

Ken, yes, John Chang wanted non-Chinese to know more about Neigong because neigong allows us, human beings, to be more than who most of us are. He wanted to share this knowledge, but, he was reminded of his oath to Mo Pai's rule (an ancient rule, not made recently as some might think). Thus, he stopped all teachings. When Jim started to teach others, he did so without John Chang's permission. How I know? I asked John Chang himself and there were correspondences between John Chang's son and Jim discussing this issue. You may doubt my identity as a Mo Pai student, but, I have been a Tao Bum member more than five years, and throughout that time, I have corresponded with many Tao Bum members in regards to Mo Pai. If anything I have stated been untrue, please take this time to refute me.

I understand your frustration, Ken, and many of your fellow practitioners. Many of us in Mo Pai understand this, however, we, as students of the Mo Pai lineage, are bound to our oath to the Mo Pai's rules and regulations. There is nothing we can do. If John Chang, himself, can't go against the rules, how can we as students do so? If so, how can Jim has John Chang's blessings to teach.

Ken, no one can force you to stop doing what you do. Believe me, I have tried telling many people the dangers of practicing Neigong techniques improperly and without the guidance of a proper teacher from that system, and most still continued their training. There are a few (I won't mention their names) who suffered some "side affects" from improperly practicing these techniques. Even those still continued training. My advice to you is to find a neigong system that will accept you as students and has teachers who will guide you in your training. I am sure there are some. I apologize if this is not the answer you seek. Believe me, there are many people just like you, some even moved to Indonesia, but we have to honor and abide to our lineage and rules. If you can't accept this, then forgive our hardheadedness because we are nothing if we live without honor and obedience to our ancestors.

To Leo, I'm sorry for not understanding your statement as follows: "The techniques may be lacking, but then, do you fully salute what you deem as improper techniques, posted as MoPai?"

I wish you all safe training.

It's not my forum. I can't delete someone else's posts. If you are aware of a F*** You, etc. posts by myself, send me a link to it (pm of course) and I'll delete it if you remove Jim's instructions.

 

Besides what does MPG's forum have to do with Jim's instructions. Why would you host Jim's private email instructions on your forum publically, further spreading it. They were leaked by a student and hosted by Sifu_ReL and a couple other places, but not anymore. The public leaking has almost died out and gone back to the way it was before. Until you publically re-hosted them again. You might as well be the person that leaked them to start with considering the fact that they were pretty much private again before you posted them on your forum. MPG isn't even in this equation. This is about respect for Jim and his private teachings.

Ken, you speak of respect for Jim and his private teachings. I find it ironic that Jim, himself, did not have the honor and respect for John Chang and his lineage when he taught others Mo Pai's techniques when he never had permission to do so. Before anyone can debate whether Jim had John Chang's permission to teach, consider this, if John Chang himself was not allowed to teach non-Chinese, would he give permission to Jim to teach to others? Furthermore, I have read Jim's instructions on Mo Pai techniques. They are faulty and many parts of the instructions Jim added himself, thus, not the real Mo Pai techniques. Just be careful when you train using those improper instructions.

Wow, I didn't realize there were any legit MoPai people around (again no offense meant, but I hope you understand).

 

Tongkosong gets the Tech seal of approval . Well actually also the I did far too much research and asked too many questions over time, and he gave the right answer to my test question, seal of approval. While I haven't gone so far as to pester folks to confirm that he is with the school, I will say he's definitely not one of the MP scammers, and from all I can tell likely is part of the school.

 

I'm also happy that there are a couple of MoPai posters around here who are not Lucas or Elijah .

 

I have one question . As I understand it, actual legit MoPai people do not charge money for the teachings or teaching materials, correct?

 

While I'm at it, I'll just apologize for most of the TTBs MP posts, now.... (if it makes you feel any better at all a bunch of them have been sock puppets of the 2 above mentioned folks). Unfortunately the more difficult, or impossible, something is made to get, the more people want it.

No, we were never charged money for any teachings. As far as I know, no "inner student" of Mopai ever benefitted, monetarily, from teachings. We were sworn to never use the knowledge we received, from Mopai's teachings and techniques, to use as a means of monetary benefit.

You do not need to apologize for posting any comments on our school/system. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, as long as it is done with respect and non-malice. Arguments happen all the time. If not, in my opinion, progress can't be made.

I have to ask, and I mean no disrespect by this at all, just really want to know. How do we know that you in particular (or any other members here for that matter) are legit/proper MoPai folks?

 

I've only ever seen one member on here actually from Indonesia.... so I have to admit a bit of skepticism; well OK the whole none of us use our real names likely doesn't help either.

 

My apologies if I missed a really important thread or information on this. Also please do not take this personally at all, and please understand with so many people on here claiming to have MoPai info I am quite skeptical. (though to be honest while I respect MoPai, I'm more asking for the benefit of the board and others than myself, since I prefer systems which would actually teach me / have more info available ).

No worries, as I understand that with the anonymity of hiding behind the internet does lead to misinformation and suspicion. I know the person who is commenting from Indonesia, with the username of "______indo", is the person you mentioned with an IP address from Indonesia. There are other Mopai students (Chinese Indonesians) who contribute posts in this forum. We are Mopai students, who originated from Indonesia, but take residence outside of Indonesia.

How do we prove ourselves as Mopai students! Well, this is a good question. The only thing I can say for myself is the intimate information I have in regards to Mopai. Only those with real knowledge of Mopai will know if what I am saying is right or wrong. Truthfully, we know each other's username, and if I am providing false information, or pretending to be a Mopai student, you can bet other Mopai students will tell you so. The real reason why I come to this forum is to dispute blatantly false information that can harm someone's well-being (when it is Mopai's technique related), or to defend our school's honor and good name. I understand many people do not appreciate some of our school's history , techniques, or policies. As at various times, people do argue vehemently about these. I try to, if I can, provide the correct information. You can still not believe me and I appreciate that, however, I have not benefitted from my posts, nor have I tried to sell anyone Mopai's techniques. Actually, I have tried not to post too much or meddle in arguments. However, if I see anyone besmirching Mopai's or John Chang's reputation, as a student, it is my duty to confront him/her. I don't think this is unusual or encouraging a "battle of egos".

I will bad mouth and point out any harmful practice. cheng sen feng level 72 on the web site of mo pei I am from wudang and this is a lie and has no affiliation whatsoever with Wudang. A blatant lie to create a fake linage.Ask any doctor east or west about seman retention, wrong and harmful. Thinking true vitality as a physical substance produced like seman is laughable. There are too many errors to mention. Anyone using acupressure should be able to manipulate the human or animal body it is not magic or a high level skill. If one has benefited by a practice that is awesome but do not be easily fooled by beginner methods to achieve something worth value.

Yes, you are free to your opinion, but, if your opinion is about an actual system/school/teaching and your intent is to judge/bad mouth/criticize it, you better have good and authentic knowledge of it. Your argument, with the intent to discredit and criticize our school/system/teaching is very flawed and ignorant. It goes to show the kind of person you are.

There is no Mopai website that is created to be the official Mopai website, permitted by the master of the lineage. There was a website pretending to be the "official" Mopai website, but, the school has dispute it and it was then shut down. If there are more websites popping out pretending to be the official site, please be very careful and do not trust its information.

The 72 levels of Mopai are actually not as people understand it to be. This is actually a misunderstanding people have of Mopai and its teachings.

Mopai is not from Wudang nor is it associated with Wudang. John Chang mentioned Zhang San Feng not as its ancestor. If it was perceived so, it was a misunderstanding.

As to the Mopai technique, it does not and never promote semen retention. It was referring to the practitioner having to take a break from the meditation after having sex. You do not have any knowledge of Mopai's teachings and techniques, so I suggest be humble and do not try to act all knowing.

So once again, please refrain from passing judgement on a system or school that you have NO idea of. Instead of doing that, be humble and mind your own practice. If you have any questions on Mopai or its system, you can ask us. If it is allowed, we will try to clear up any misinformation. I suggest courtesy towards other schools and systems. A true honorable person does not get his reputation by spouting out nonsense on a practice/system that he/she is ignorant of. Thank you for understanding.

Mo pia should serve as a perfect example of a system corrupted and gone wrong, leading people into a fantasy world and escape from reality. The weak have a need for such things instead of fully engaging in life's ups, downs, good, bad and all the rest.

Please do refrain from bad mouthing a system or its master, when you have no real knowledge of the system. It is easy to sit in your room passing judgement. What John Chang demonstrated was supposed to be for research and to let people know the potential of human beings, not to tease and fill people with delusions and fantasy. He has never gain monetary benefits from this exposure, nor did he want all this publication.

Most of what is said in forums are by people who do not belong to Mo Pai. That is why we, Mopai students, asked for our system/school to be left alone. Discussions should be civil and polite. Nothing can be gained by insults and mockery.

Tongkosong,

 

So to better understand your above points are you saying that More Pie Guy should not post about the MoPai at all?

 

And

 

For him to do so is against the Mo Pai wishes?

No, that is not what I meant. I respect More Pie Guy as a person with strong conviction and opinion, however, I feel he needs to stop posting his opinions as having the final authority of Mopai or John Chang. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with his opinions, but feel that unless a person was instructed by the headmaster of the Mopai school or John Chang, one should not say that the opinion posted is the view and teachings of Mopai. To form an opinion that carries the weight of a school is a heavy burden and you have to have the authority from the master of the school. To compare and put down an opinion made by another school, you have to be a level of a master of your system with full knowledge and understanding of your school and its teachings.

I understand that the internet is a forum of free exchange of ideas, but, if it is your own ideas, I have no problem with whatever you say. If you attach your opinion to a system or a school, then it is different. Due to the fiasco from Jim and others, John Chang and the current headmaster wish to get away from the "limelight" and to avoid further controversies, they wished to be left alone. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

More Pie Guy,

I do respect your resilient and unwavering belief, however, I do think you need a better way of communicating them to others. Communicate your opinion with honor and respect would be a better solution for you, in my humble opinion. If you bulldozed other people's beliefs and systems, nothing good would come out of it, regardless if you are right or wrong. The thing that I disagree with the way you communicate is, even when you are right, people get turn off and would most likely try to discredit you. Remember the saying winning the battle, but, losing the war. Another observation I make is that the more you carry on this behavior, the Mopai's reputation gets sullied. This is why I feel I have to write the previous post. I am sure you do not mean to disrespect John Chang or Mopai. Do know this though, since you contribute many opinions in regards to Mopai or John Chang (or anything Neigong related), people form an opinion on Mopai and John Chang through your posts. That is why it is our wish that you do not drag the Mopai and John Chang through your muddy battleground. Remember, if you respect John Chang, you should honor his wishes, which is to leave Mopai and him alone and out of any controversy.

Hello More_Pie_Guy,

 

I missed the posts where you described your experience with Ya Mu's system. I wanted to compare your experience with my experience.

 

You appear to be a very dedicated cultivator. You probably did very well with Ya Mu's system? But, perhaps, you did even better with Mo Pai?

 

I hate to see any of these systems get disrespected... Many serious cultivators did not survive the "Cultural Revolution." (Total dead in China and Territories: 77 Million dead. More than World War II alone.) Let us honor the dead, our respective Lineages, our respective technologies. Our systems have developed under different conditions, and for different purposes. Let us respect each other, and learn from each other.

 

Permit me to direct your attention to my--apparently too subtle--hint on the nature of technology and ground wires:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/31831-mo-pai-what-are-the-alternatives/page-28#entry491680

http://thetaobums.com/topic/31831-mo-pai-what-are-the-alternatives/page-34#entry492153

 

Both of our Lineages have powerful practitioners. Both our Lineages have suffered from repression. What logic is there in bashing each other? There are real problems to solve. Right now, I'd prefer to focus on the healing properties of my particular practice... I'd like to be prepared in case the World goes completely mad again: there are many injured and sick along with the dead if that were to happen.

 

We honor your Lineage. Please honor our Lineage.

Please understand that More Pie Guy does not represent Mopai or its views. He was taught by Jim, who was an outdoor student of Mopai. I feel that none of us should be able to have the final authority on what is Yin or what is being taught in a school. I am not worthy or knowledgable enough to represent Mopai or John Chang's views. Unless a student is given authority by the master of a school to represent the school's ideas and views, I feel it is better to keep our opinion to ourselves and maybe learn from others. In my opinion, the Magus of Java was never intended by John Chang to be the bible on everything Neigong related, but, I am not saying that everything in the book is false.

As to More Pie Guy's opinion to Jim's accomplishments (compared to the indoor Indonesian students), I would say it is good to have a high opinion on your teacher, but do not do that while belittling others' accomplishments. This put you and Jim in a bad light because your ignorance shows your arrogance. Instead of arguing and promoting your views, More Pie Guy, it would be better use of your time to further your practice. I humbly hope that if you insist on continuing your arguments, please avoid using Mopai's name or John Chang's. Remember Jim's conversation with John Chang was mostly done through an interpreter, a non-professional interpreter at that.

I do second Neikung's statement which "Shifu Lin" can't be a high level Mopai student. If by a minuscule chance that he is, Shifu Lin or you have no right to create the "official" website as you have no permission from John Chang or the current headmaster. If you want to create a website to defraud unsuspecting innocents with your books and training methods, well, that is up to you and your karma. However, do not name it the official Mopai website and leave out any association with Mopai. That is downright insulting and offensive to John Chang and everybody in Mopai. I take it that you wish to be non-confrontational and believe in "peace and love". However, by continuing your actions and the existence of the website, they contradict those belief. If these continue, I guess it's crystal clear to everybody what kind of people you and "Shifu Lin" are.

Thank you everyone for trying to understand the underlying problem to this solution. I do truly think that what Truth Seeker, Formless Tao, and others say is very close to the truth. I do appreciate the attempts you guys had laid out to explain the differences between the Eastern and Western concepts and lifestyles because I agree that we all have things to learn from each other and not judge too harshly and quickly.

In regards to the being of light, I believe it to be true. In terms of where he resides, that would be anyone's guess because nobody have met him, besides the brief encounter John and his wife had.

As to John Chang's ability to sense the masters who are of higher levels, I believe that he did sensed them while he was meditating in the mountain. However, sensing is not the same as knowing specifically where they are.

I hope my answers give you hope. As to whether these masters will be known to you, I think that will be up to their karma and yours. Please do respect John Chang and Mopai's wish, which is to leave us peacefully. Peace to you all.

Please do not waste your time and money thinking that you would be the special someone whom the school will make an exception and will give you further instruction and training."

This makes it sound- and the subject of projection has been mentioned before- that you yourself regard yourself as a special someone because you're part of this group.

The reason why I said the above statement is because many Westerners come to Indonesia, spent a great deal of money and time, hoping to be accepted by Mopai. After many months, they went back home empty handed. I was just cautioning you guys what will happened if you were to do just that. That is all.

I tend to agree with Truth Seeker on how the differences in culture and prespectives has produced such misunderstandings and resentments. You are quite accurate, in my opinion, on the reactions of Jim and how John Chang handled the situation. I appreciate your post, Truth Seeker.

according to jim: john himself (and others, i think henky as well) have said that there can only be one person who is at or above the fusion level, and it's he who will be the leader. how can there be many students who are at or above level 3 and in a shorter time. yea i'll buy that you'd realistically have to work 12 hours per day for those kinds of results, and that's definitely possible. but how many level 3 (fusion) students are running around over there? i thought yang didn't even pass that level yet and i know that john retired from teaching. if any of this is wrong, by all means clear the air.

 

also, none of jims students were putting themselves or jim on a pedestal. what honor was lost so that there was a need to regain it? are words that westerners (who are banned from the school) speak out really that much of a threat for you to lash out so badly? i'm not complaining about your clearance of topics, but it seems a little like you are a pot calling the kettle black in terms of modesty and humble behavior.

There never is a rule in Mopai that prohibit more than 1 student to be at lvl 3 or higher. The current headmaster has certainly passed lvl 3.

Well, sir, how can you say that none of Jim nor his students are arrogant, when Jim, in this forum and his book, and the student above accussed the Mopai students of being jealous of them? Jim, himself, claimed that the rest of the Mopai students are lazy and at the state of stagnation in their progress. That for me is a show of arrogance. I don't find Jim and his students a threat at all. I, like most students that belonged to a school, take offense when our school and its students are being insulted. I just want to let them know the state of Mopai currently.

I've been learning from Jim for quite sometime, and perhaps I would be considered one of Jim's most senior students... I have to say Jim is an excellent mopai meditator and also a great person. He is one of the people I admire. My only regret is I haven't been able to communicate with him as much as I would want to. Over the many years learning through my 20s and into my 30s I have always been so impressed by his patience with the school. And I know John deep down, thinks he is a nice guy too.

 

I want to add a little to this, being I've trained for a little while I feel a connection to the school as I have meditated for couple 1000s of hours in it's style linking to Buddhidharma and Chang Sang Feng. From the sounds of things I believe the school is in a "spiritual" decline. I wish I could help everyone out in this regard.

 

John had the right idea to open the school up to the west. Some of us in the west appreciate this art even more then east, as does the East appreciates some things about the West more.

I believe the school did not expect Jim to do so well and be so dedicated. Jim was able to accomplish so much despite living so far away, having so little time in Java, and the language barrier. To this day I think a lot of the students will have difficulty achieving his level of 2b. Remember- he has video recording of the 2b instructions.

 

Now I would understand the locals would be very jealous of Jim.... At the ultimate level there is no room to be racist. I like people from all races, you should too. Members of the school or at least the 'head' should know there is no distinction between skin colours when we trace back the roots. Hence the art does not belong to sole pure blood 'chinese' people. School aside, John and Jim should at least patch things up as they were very long time friends and are our elders for most of us. Why would anyone encourage dissent?

 

There are some of us who have done exceptionally well under Jim, considering. With no spoon feeding, totally isolated from inspiration abilities etc.

I hope the school can consider there are some fine students here who have emerged who would like to bring back the honour to the school.

You may not believe but there are some good people of all colour skins who want to bring peace and love with the art. And on a daily basis put great effort into being good humans.

 

Warm Regards

 

TF

I really don't understand the arrogance of Jim and some of his students who claimed that the Mopai students are jealous of Jim's "rapid" progress and accomplishments. There are many Mopai students who have attained the same level or higher than Jim, in a much shorter period of time. You might argue the distance and time might be a factor, and I say BS. Other Mopai students who lived outside Indonesia have progressed at much faster rate than Jim. The only reason you don't know of them is that they are humble human beings, unlike the arrogant few whom I have mentioned. Please don't put yourself up high on the pedestal, get over yourselves. Furthermore, there have been more students who have passed to lvls that are higher than Jim than ever before. Thus, to say that the current pool of Mopai students are lazy and jealous of Jim is ridiculous. Currently, there are many students who are in their 20s and 30s who are at the lvl of where Jim is at. In short, Mopai is thriving.

In your statement in regards to accusation that Mopai is racist, we have explained many times, so I shall not bother. As to your statement of dissent, look to Jim on that point. He has spewed out bitterness, anger, vehemence to create dissent, but it did not work. It kind of backfired actually. Mopai students are more united than ever before.

By the way, John Chang is one of the nicest person that you will ever meet. This situation with Jim, has not placed you guys (Jim's students) at any advantage at all, to be frank, it's the opposite. Your suggestion for Jim's students being accepted by Mopai to bring honor back is, sorry to say, slim to none (this opinion is not only mine by the way). The only honor lost here is Jim's. In actuality, Mopai has regained its honor by John Chang's and Mopai students' dedication and commitment to its rules and oath, and throwing out the bad eggs, like Jim.

ok i'll buy that you might need supervision for the first level, but then how does this account for the fact that liao died before john finished level 2a? john completed 2a, 2b and 3 by himself before he spoke with liao as i understand.

I don't know where you got that information. Liao Shifu was alive when John Chang passed lvl 2b and progressed to other levels. Liao Shifu passed away before John Chang had fused his dantien, but by then, he was advanced enough to progress without supervision.

 

 

I know your 'two signs'.

i experienced them within 6 months of my training.

Had I been your student, I might have ruptured my dantian not even halfway in my level 1.

 

You might not been told not to teach.

But when you decided to teach, did you have the courtesy to ask Shifu for pemission?

I read in other thread, you use this "not yet forbidden' as an excuse to secretly teach.

Listen, in chinese culture, you dont teach unless you are told.

When you are deemed worthy and reach a sufficient level, you will be automatically told to teach.

unill then you arent ready to be a teacher.

Students of Jim, please read what thunderindo wrote and take heed. There was one student who came to Indonesia to meet John Chang and headmaster for further instruction, he was turned down on both occassion. Please do not waste your time and money thinking that you would be the special someone whom the school will make an exception and will give you further instruction and training.

The signs Jim are talking about is not the signs that signal your completion of level 1. There are a number of students who thought their dantiens are full and progressed to the next level of training without confirmation and supervision. The outcome is that their health suffered and their dantien are affected. The Mopai system is not to be taken lightly.

My suggestion and recommendation, sorry to say, is to drop the training. There is no way you can continue this path and your unsupervised training is hazardous to your health. I know that most of you will not listen to me, but I have to at least put this out there, and hope some will take heed.

As to Micah/Lin, once again no one in Mopai and, especially, John Chang has ever spoken to or meet him/them. Hopefully people will not get suckered in to his scam.

Why is this so?!?!!?!?

 

It sounds like Jim was brushed aside because of things not of his doings.

 

So Jim cant even visit john they cant even be friends?

 

Why cant any compassion be shown to him and at least point him to another master so he can continue or something?

 

Well can i get the both of you to agree publicy that sifu lin/micah has no right to do what he is doing?

Puretruth, what do you think of Jim's reaction and behavior towards John Chang? What do you think about Jim bad mouthing John Chang and his ancestral masters? It's so easy to ask for forgiveness when Jim, himself, does not show any remorse. After all this, do you think anyone, in John Chang's shoes, will want to be friends with Jim? Compassion? Why would John Chang or Mopai show any compassion if Jim still insists on his bad behavior?