BigSkyDiamond

Thank you for providing more detail on your views and frame of reference. Bold above "complete and absolute control over nature" is an excellent nutshell overview and summary of purpose. And the question in bold above "The gist of what you are saying is basically what?" invites me to also summarize. Hmmmm. That is a useful exercise. If the central focus of magic is control then the central focus for me is Source. longer version? let's try some out. Awaken from the dream. Before thinking, before thought. The part of me that is infinite. Unborn, uncreated, unformed, unchanging, no beginning, no end, no time, no space, no form, always was, always will be. We see things differently and that's OK. There is a path and a practice for everyone. We have free will to choose from the vast array on offer.

yes to number 2 option above. no to number 1 option above because (a) that describes an automated cognitive process based on knowledge and information and (b) it is not consistently reliable. What comes to mind is "driving" or playing Tetris which we can do without really thinking about it, it becomes automatic. The examples given of memory retrieval and learned behavior (hot cup) are, well, learned behavior. Inferences are a product of experience (where the ball will land, child tripping). Predictions are a cognitive process also based on knowledge and experience. so i agree with what is stated in post above describing number 2. intuition is not "my thoughts" and it is not my emotions and it's not my instinct. Instinct to me is a lightning fast response for instance during a crisis situation, it is like quick reflexes that kick in. Or instinct can be certain skills come easily without "learning" them I just know how to do them. That feels to me like knowledge i came into this world with. That is not intuition either. in my experience, there is nothing logical about intuition. And it is not fast or automatic. It does not make sense. One way i have learned to tell that it is not just my thoughts or thinking, is the observation "I would never come up with that on my own." Or "where did that come from." Or it would be in direct contradiction to what i "thought i should do." I could be taking steps or making a choice based on logic or the infamous (and logical) "pros and cons list", and then be guided by intuition to do something very different. intuition for me is internal guidance in the form of instructions. do this, don't do that, turn here, don't accept that job offer. (I ignored that guidance about the job. And quit the job shortly after.) It can come unbidden and "out of the blue." Or if i am stumped trying to make a decision or choice, then i can ask my intuition for guidance. Occasionally it is a crystal clear voice speaking to me and that can be startling, that has happened in urgent or serious situations, as if to get my attention that this is very important. Two times it alerted me that i was in grave danger and this saved my life. The very first time i heard it as distinct clear audible voice, it was very calm and clear and strong and loving. It told me it was my choice to either do a or b and if i chose b then the result would be my death. I was very startled. My immediate reaction was that it felt like my soul was talking to me. The message was very clear that the decision was up to me. Logically i was not leaning towards that choice. I was actively against that choice. It was the most difficult terrifying decision that i ever made in my life. It meant that everything i had built and accomplished up to that point crumbled and was torn down. But there is no doubt in my mind (then or now) that i would have died had i not changed my mind. in my experience if it's "not reliable" then it's not intuition. The only problems i have ever had with intuition are when i ignored it, overrode it, or did something different than what my intuition prompted. Usually because the logical mind talked me out of it. Or i started second guessing myself, or i could not see a reason to follow the guidance, it did not make sense "why would i do that." My intellect now recognizes though, through a considerable track record of positive experiences (following intuition) and negative experiences ( ignoring or overriding intuition) that it is logical to follow my intuition. So there is now harmony within on that score. my experience is that it is the still small voice. of the soul, the Higher Self, that it connects me to the Divine, to the part of me within that is a spark of the Divine. my view is that everyone has intuition but it is often times dismissed, ignored, or discounted. It can be used and tested and verified and validated. That is what I did when i first started using it. A part of that was ignoring it or overriding it to "see what happened" to "see if it was right." The more that intuition is used, the stronger it gets. Like a muscle. All it takes is listening within, and getting a sense or flavor of the "thoughts" in your head, or the "guidance" you are receiving. My experience is that intuition is 100% reliable. (My own logic and intellect on the other hand are decidedly spotty, flawed. and limited.) I would practice on small things (less important) to cultivate "hearing" a response when asking for guidance. Which made it easier then to use and hear for larger things of greater importance which carry more stress or anxiety or doubt present. I am at heart a practical person. Since it provides tangible, beneficial, practical results that improve my daily life, then that is enough for me. I always like discussions and conversation around how people experience intuition (in contrast to intellect, in contrast to instinct, in contrast to emotion, in contrast to thinking, in contrast to logic). [Note to self: that is a very long post. I need to work on writing shorter posts.]

Thank you Bindi for additional details and description provided from your own frame of reference. This is helpful in understanding. the absolute for me is the infinite part of me (the Divine in me). It is always present and always accessible. There are no preconditions except for me to not turn my back on it or ignore it. The connection for me is nourished through recognition and interaction and awareness of that part of myself (the ground of my being, the part that is unchanging unformed unborn uncreated no beginning no end no time no form no space always was always will be). Question: In your view, is intuition a function of the intellect?

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i could actually feel my muscle strength starting to diminish, and i could feel loss beginning in flexibility and range of motion. That was a bit scary. That is what led me to amp up my fitnesss routine. With 2 months so far of increased qi gong and different forms, there is marked improvement in strength and flexibility. So I am on the right track, but there is still more to be done. I will be adding specific muscle strengthening exercises. I am also spending more time on the floor this is helping with flexibility. Thank you again for the input, much appreciated.

Thank you for the response and additional information on this topic. what is this? bold above stress straining for body tissues Is that referring to muscle-strengthening activities? Activity that will increase range of motion and flexibility? I am thinking for the age 60+ group. Balance building is important for seniors, and i feel like i am getting that with the qi gong. I am interested in more on this. Thank you. I am thinking of the scenes with a group of seniors in China doing Tai Chi movement. A moving Tai Chi like that would give me more movement. Is that considered a "martial art" ? Wild Goose (Dayan) has movement but it is still qi gong, and not considered tai chi.

Welcome Wizard! Great screen name.

it's not an either-or. We can work on BOTH at the same time: the relative secular human level (such as secular psychology, therapy, healing practices, recovery, 12-step work, counseling, support groups) and also the absolute the soul level (as a means of understanding and making sense of what is going on, for instance in the context of a path of religion-and-spirituality as defined by the individual). Both are useful for recovering from trauma, abuse, addictions. And we don't do it alone, we don't do it by ourselves. But it is up to us as an individual to seek healing, treatment, and put it into practice.

people are sharing what works for them in their own personal experience. It can be a great source of inspiration and comfort and hope and healing to hear other people's stories. For many many people it is very uplifting. (It certainly was for me when i was told i had less than 6 months to live in 1999.) that is very much NOT telling people "here do this, here try that."

Not the same at all. Nor is it what is presented in a therapeutic health care setting. "someone trying to sell me something" is not a reliable source for health care guidance.

of course i had to google "semi-sesquicentennial definition" Semisesquicentennial can be broken down to understand its meaning: "semi" - half of + "sesqui" - in the ratio of 3:2 + "centennial" - 100 years. Broken out mathematically, 1/2 * 3/2 * 100 = 75 Hooray for Mark !

the frameworks that people are describing and discussing, are not directed towards other people. they are for inner work and inner self reflection. they are tools for inner healing, growth, self-improvement, spiritual advancement, and self-development. what is directed outwards to other people is kindness and compassion. And there is no need whatsoever to attack individual people posting. Discuss the ideas and views and behaviors. NOT individual people on the forum.

I have the same question asked by Turnip. I agree that physical grounding activity is necessary. But i question whether the grounding activity must come through martial arts. For instance walking in nature every day for 80 minutes. It would be helpful for me to hear more on that. Thank you. My qi gong practice is 130 minutes daily, it is Zhineng qi gong mostly, and some Flying Phoneix qi gong. Both are slow meditative eyes closed forms. Zhineng is based on Hunyuan qi.

i have to learn and understand and be able to differentiate between: blame responsibility accountability example: I am not responsible for trauma i experienced as a young child. As an adult, however I am responsible for seeking treatment to heal from that trauma. If i inflict trauma on my own children, i am responsible for my behavior and I am held accountable for that behavior. I don't blame my own parents for my current actions as an adult. I am 100% responsible. In this way (seeking treatment and healing, taking responsibility for my behavior, learning new and different and healthy ways of responding as a parent) the cycle of family violence is stopped. if there is no treatment sought, or if I don't put it into practice, and i continue to blame my parents (or anything else including people places things institutions society the world) for abc, xyz, for causing whatever misery is present currently in my life as an adult, then i stay stuck in that misery and also the cycle of family abuse (in this example) continues generation after generation. Note that in the healthy model, there is no blame. It is out of the picture. Blame is gone. Completely. I don't blame myself. I don't blame others. Blame is discarded entirely. What remains are responsibility and accountability. Why is blame discarded entirely? Because it is toxic and crippling and keeps a person in victim mode. This too is part of the healing and recovery from trauma. Seeing myself not as a victim, but as a survivor. Try the words on for size and see what each evokes for you. [that is at the secular human level. a separate post will cover at the soul level "but what about reincarnation and karma etc."]

so "progress" we have made is retained and carries forward. yes. thank you for providing clarity. i am learning a lot

In secular psychology, blame is toxic and is a barrier to healing and recovery from trauma. Blame prevents healthy behavior. When we blame others we surrender the ability to make positive changes in our life, we give away our power to learn and grow from our life experiences. Blame has no purpose in recovering from trauma, and it prevents the process of healing. the beauty of this forum is that we get to see, hear, share, understand, and learn how a wide range of paths view and deal with whatever it is we are facing in life

every frame of reference / belief system / path of religion and spirituality / and even secular psychology offers and provides tools for responding to pain, distress, hardship, misery, trauma in your own frame of reference / belief system / path of religion and spirituality how is suffering viewed, and what are the tools for dealing with it? What are the healing methods available for distress and trauma?

what is non-retrogression? for this layperson to understand. thank you.

which brings us to intention, motivation, reasons for practicing this or that path. Clearly identifying that may be a way to illustrate some of the differences, and to address some of the questions being asked. The words I highlighted in bold in the post above speak to intention, motivation, reasons for practice. In other words "what's driving the bus" for us personally, in practicing this or that path. For each item in bold given for the path of magic, i am going to provide parallel examples of how that may be seen in the traditions I know from within. NOTE: This is NOT given as a challenge to anyone's path, nor is it for debate, arguing, criticizing any other path, or one upmanship. It is ONLY an illustration of how the points raised may be seen in another tradition (two other traditions, the ones i am most familiar with and have directly experienced). And the comparison is provided in the spirit of seeking to understand each other's views from within different paths (magic focused, or Divinity focused or Awakening focused) "The whole point of learning is to abolish fear. " "do things beyond what everyone in the world sees." "Thats the whole point... you learn so you can do." The whole point is non-doing, is stillness, is cultivating pure awareness The whole point of learning is to draw closer to the Divine and discern God's will in my life The whole point of learning is to exit the cycle of rebirth The whole point of learning is character development and self improvement by cultivating virtues I learn so i can dissolve the belief in separation and Awaken to the infinite me The focus is on dissolving the material world, awakening from the dream "Why is it so dangerous to want to learn about what one can truly do and accomplish in the phenomenal world? " "a balanced person with common sense already knows the wisdom of when to not do things" the wisdom of when not to do things includes not engaging in magic. Magic is avoided because it puts me in harm's way. It is dangerous because it summons lesser entities. It is a distraction and diversion and obstacle and barrier to Awakening. As above, so below. Just as there are parts of town i don't wander around in "bad neighborhoods" because unsavory entities do not have my best interests at heart. just because entities are dead, invisible, or non-physical does not make them smart, safe, or trustowrthy. Nothing to do with fear. everything to do with common sense, discernment, safety, and wisdom. "ultimate freedom as one has learned ultimate influence and control of oneself at the very real and absolute level. " Surrendering control, not seeking more of it. Let go and let God. Let go of attachments. Ultimate freedom is I will to do Thy will. Ultimate freedom is pure awareness. Ultimate freedom is observe and let it go. The very real and absolute level is no-time, no-space, no-form and the material world (the universe and everything in it) is a dream. " bring your dead best friend back to life" nope, not a goal. If i petition God through prayer, then the Divine can work miracles. My focus is on relationship with the Divine. My focus is on Source. Thank you Jadespear for very thoughtful discussion on various elements of this topic.

Within varioius religious traditions, a distinction is made and the differences are recognized between "magic" and the divine. There are esoteric bodies of knowledge and practice within religious traditions, that are not available to everyone and are not taught to the masses. There are valid reasons for that. (This discussion appears over on the 242-page qigong thread, too, how and why the "inner secrets" of a lineage have been kept secret, and when they are revealed, under what circumstances and to whom.) At a superficial level it can be seen as "religion is afraid" or "religion is superstitious" or "religion is primitive does not understand the science of magic" (condescending much?) But there are valid reasons why "magic" is advised against in many tradition that have far more depth than those superficial knee jerk judgments. This is not a criticism of anyone's path or practice. It is how other paths may view "magic" and why it is avoided and advised against.

my observation is that assessment of "what is Nirvana" is not accurate. It shows a lack of understanding what Nirvana is and what it entails. Nirvana is not a thought process or mental gymnastics, which is how i read "just a state of mind, nothing more." Regarding "Nirvana is misunderstood" the post above is an example and demonstration of that. it is dicey and skating on thin ice for someone to make sweeping generalizations about a tradition not their own. "Nirvana is this" "Jesus is this" "Buddha is this." Because within the tradition it is often seen very very differently. It can show a lack of regard and respect to make statements like that. And it shows ignorance (not an attack on anyone posting, used as it is defined "lack of knowledge or information"). Labeling a religious figure "a magician" from another tradition can be deeply insulting and offensive. Because in that tradition it may be seen as a pejorative. Also trying to paste one's own belief system onto another path or tradition can come across as paternalistic, condescending, patronizing. i am discussing generic behaviors here and generic views, not any specific individuals posting or their personal views.

oh my gosh, that actually has a name, it is Maslow's Hammer. !!!

as the saying goes, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

it's a free will universe. a person can choose to hang on to their anger for as long as they want, year after year, lifetime after lifetime, eon after eon. there is no judgment, there is no criticism, there is no timeline. we have all of eternity. it is up to each one when if or whether to keep it.

yes, the still small voice. direct link to the Divine in me. I hear it best when i can differentiate it from my thoughts and thinking mind (intuition is not that), and separate it from the reactive emotions (intuition is not that). a favorite author at the moment is Korean Zen Master Seung Sahn, he uses the phrase "before thinking, before thought" for that inner stillness.