Krenx

Oh. If that was the question, what nibbana is. Then to simply put it, it is the end of suffering. It is the end of birth, aging, sickness and death. It is the abandonment of this world. The question surrounding "where" you go after final nibbana, do you exist, not exist, etc, an unanswerable question. It is not something you can intellectually or verbally explain while in the world. It is only to be experienced. But where you do NOT end up is clear. You cannot be found in the world anymore upon final nibbana. There seems to be a lot of misunderstandings around Buddhism. This is not a criticism. This is normal and requires more clarification, even for myself before learning about what it really is. There is no live forever, meditating 24/7. The Buddha did not live forever, and often spent time spreading the dhamma. Not just meditate. And yes. The Buddha did explain devas do get restless. Suffer in various ways. For what do buddhist practice? Because even if most of us cannot recall our past lives, the fact is we have been in this same old washing machine called samsara for a very very long time. All the suffering, and sense pleasures we make great efforts to avoid, or seek, we been through it countless amounts of times. The same stories continue to unfold, the same questions we continue to ask. The same answers we get. If you understand the dhamma, you will see clear signs of this exhausting never ending vicious cycle called existence. If you start to develop the right kind of dispassion towards the world, the kind of relief from laying down the burden of craving is unlike anything else. We do not realise the kind of trap, drug of self, sense pleasure we are on, and how that craving slaves us through every decision in our lives. To start existing and acting in ways that are not out of craving, is like existing in a totally different reality. Suffering is not good. When you suffer, you cause suffering too. And I don't think people understand how much suffering we are each responsible for, in this life, and previous lives. We can "try" to convince ourselves that suffering is okay. But our every behaviour and mental afflictions is screaming the fact that it is NOT okay, not good to suffer. As I continue on the path of buddhism, I start to see my past actions, harm I caused others and myself, and actually be able to get to the root of it and stop that harm, reduce suffering. I don't think you can call that meaningless. Buddhism is not for everyone. And there is quite some work involved to understand it. And that work involves alot of adjustment in behavior and lifestyle to uncover hidden defilements, resolve it, to be able to understand these things at a personal level. Best I can do is answer questions about it, clear up and misunderstandings about it. Take it as you see fit. 👍.

The buddha mentioned many blissful and peaceful experiences in his past experiences in his past lives, as well as his life as an ascetic before he became a buddha. He talked about the various blissful meditation "jhana" states he achieved/ experienced, but had enough wisdom to realize it was not the end suffering, there was still "liability" for suffering that existed, which was suffering. Those attainments were not small feats, because if sustained, it would have led him to heavenly realms for a long time. But when he became the Buddha, he explained there are two types of Jhana. Worldy jhanas, and the jhanas with the dhamma as a basis. And the jhana of the noble ones that the buddha recommends, leads to nibbana. It has a different flavour. That difference is subtle experientially for many, that is why many ascetics and monks mistaken their meditative achievements as the end of the path. Because it is so sublime and blissful. Similar to how many devas live in conditions with very little suffering, so most do not have any interest in continuing to deepen their progress. This is true. Devas when coming to the end of their lives, start to experience signs of their luster depreciate, as they get close to exhaustion of their merits, leading some of them to lower realms. And lower devas also go to war with asuras. So devas are in many ways like humans in various experiences. Let me just list out some points that are relevant to your assumptions, which should help clarify them. There are four levels/stages of enlightenment. Sotapanna, anagami, Sakadegami, Arahant. Sotapanna (stream enterer): Someone who has right view. And their conduct, understanding on the dhamma reflects as such. They will have 7 more lifetimes maximum before full enlightenment. 7 more meaning it could be less than 7, and could be human realm rebirth, or a mixture with heavenly realms. It depends on the individual’s kamma, how far along they are on he path etc. From this point, the noble ones (Those within the 4 levels of enlightenment) will never be reborn into the lower realms. Because they will not be inclined to commit kamma heavy enough for that. Sakadagami (Once returner): For a sakadagami, as the name states, they return to the human realm one last time to become arahants. Anagami (Non returner): The Anagami does not return. To the sensual realms. Upon death, they are reborn in the pure abode heavens, and transition to final nibbana from there. The Mahayana’s idea of “pure lands”, its conditions, are NOT the same as the early buddhist/ theravada idea of the “pure abodes”. The same terms might be similarly adopted, but it is defined by basically different religions. Good to keep them separate. Arahant: This being is fully enlightened, and upon the breaking up of their body in this life, they will reach final nibbana, never to be reborn again. The Buddha is actually quite clear about how heavenly realms are still part of samsara, the “world”. He uses the realms to convey “direction”. Which direction good deeds incline a person towards, and where bad deeds incline to. Using these things as a reference point to set up the practitioner’s chance of success. Because practically speaking, in the woeful realms (Hell, animal, ghost), the dhamma cannot be seen or practiced. There is too much confusion and suffering there, and it is just a place to exhaust bad kamma. It is only in the human realm and heavenly realms that the dhamma can be found and learned. And it is actually in the human realm where MOST of the work is actually done on the path. The human realm is special that way. This is why a buddha always appears in the human realm. Because the body of spiritual work is here. The woeful realms, and heavenly realms, are often a place to exhaust kamma. It is not a proclamation he made for any “Strategic” reasons. He realized he was the only one in the universe while he was alive that had this knowledge of the dhamma. From recollection, he realized that every buddha before him, held this same dhamma knowledge. And when there are no buddhas in the world, he explains there were pachekka buddhas, who were beings who discovered the dhamma on their own, but remained in solitude. He knows all this, explained it. So when he declared he was the one who re-discovered the dhamma in the world, it was more a matter of fact. A fact people could verify themselves by learning about it, and comparing it with other kinds of doctrines in the world, and see if they share the same flavour. The dhamma that is re-discovered by a buddha is unique. People may not agree with the dhamma the buddha taught, but they can agree that the essence and it's end goal, is unlike any other teachings. So from these points, you can see that knowledge is used to orient “direction”. And that direction eventually leads to dispassion of the entire world itself. After all, you cannot put down what you don’t know you’re holding onto. So understanding phenomena completely, seeing the root of suffering properly, you can finally abandon the right things, uproot craving.

We don't have to look too far into previous lives to see kamma and its effects. Even in this life, without your lives and minds, we can observe its phenomena. In terms of kamma turning to fruit, it is interesting to know that even fully enlightened Arahants, like the Buddha and his disciples, still experience the effects of kamma from their past lives. So they also go through certain events, circumstances, fall to physical illness and harm physical harm sometimes due to past unwholesome kamma. And also good kamma from the past, it arises in their life in many ways. The difference is for an arahant, despite physical afflictions and circumstances that arises, their mind is free from suffering, it sees these events as they are, and do not create anymore kamma that leads to future rebirths. They are just awaiting for the breaking up of their body in that final life, never to be reborn again. Good to know. Because sometimes people assume for fully enlightened beings, they somehow are free from their past actions. As long as one exist in the 5 realms, kamma acts in you. BUT weather you "suffer" on the account of it, distinguishes you from a noble one, and the average person. This is why suffering at level of the 4 noble truths is not where many people assume it is, not where people try to spend all their efforts managing and assume control over. Its roots lies in craving. And the work around craving has to do with abandonment in its quality/flavour. A flavour of work and effort not many are used to. And instead of abandonment, get more and more involved, manage, control, manipulate the external world in hope to fix internal qualities.

It is to end craving/ the root of suffering. Complete understanding of the phenomena. The end of aging sickness and death. Never to be reborn again in the world. It is a superhuman feat. So what is the sign that someone has completely understood phenomena? What is the qualities of measure? Kinds of practice, the key focus? This sutta describes it quite directly. (Topic might be shifting out of focus from original question. Mods might start reeling this one in.) SN23.4 At Sāvatthī. Then Venerable Rādha went up to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to him: “Rādha, I will teach you the things that should be completely understood, complete understanding, and the person who has completely understood. Listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.” “Yes, sir,” Rādha replied. The Buddha said this: “And what things should be completely understood? Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness. These are called the things that should be completely understood. And what is complete understanding? The ending of greed, hate, and delusion. This is called complete understanding. And what is the person who has completely understood? It should be said: a perfected one, the venerable of such and such name and clan. This is called the person who has completely understood.”

Good to know 👍. Thanks.

The Buddha: “Mendicants, don’t fear good deeds. For ‘good deeds’ is a term for happiness.” (AN 7.62) AN 7.62: Mettasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato https://share.google/Aq0BxsYBFAtMwKGEP

Responsibility also involves facing the emotion. Facing the actual reality of the event. Facing how your sense of "self" response to it. You have to, and you will experience it to the level of your understanding. It is impossible to "think" your way out of it, avoid it, put it aside. It will be right there. It is a very gradual path. I think when Buddhist ideas are mentioned, many adopt that fantasy of it where a person can suddenly awakens to some insight about life under a tree. That is not how it works. Understanding reality requires the most intimate, honest, and difficult task a human can ever do. Sometimes very painful contemplation for a long time, and painful restraint of unwholesome tendencies that bad events contributed in the past. It takes a long time, many up and down events in life for an individual to make up that puzzle. Not many succeed. Some strive for a lifetime and have results, and many don't. Extreme traumatic events are often called divine intervention. And it leads to two outcomes. Either the person is suddenly inclined to seek spiritual understanding of the world, because nothing they assumed to know about the world makes sense or is helping them, or they get a mental breakdown and are lost to the mass of suffering unfortunately. That is the reality, it isn't always pretty. Welcome to the world, samsara. But the real "gradual path", option for improvement and liberation is still available in the world. Most religions share some similar methods of inner development that lead to very beneficial lifestyles and pleasant abiding on earth. Discerning Context matters alot in the spiritual arts. It has become harmful in many cases and used to "manage" and numb/ avoid/ our experiences, push away responsibility, or even the opposite like taking up burdens that don't belong to you, are not yours. Refine the Context always 🙏.

Agreed. And kindness and compassion is not enabling bad behavior. It is often calling it out, and recommending a better way to live life, to consider life and its phenomena. If they request it, request a discussion. But not everyone welcomes healthy criticism and beneficial suggestions like my mother in law. So remaining silent around her for the most part, being courteous, doing the best to keep some peace, not stirr up her mind to the best of my ability is part of it. And creating some distance to reduce her chances to say harmfully things towards people close to her.

Criticisms, and highlighting "blameworthy" behaviour in others, needs to come with the intention at the service of OTHERS, for the benefit of OTHERS, and for the benefit of the one you criticize. That is the boundary you maintain. When is that line/ boundary that we do not cross? It is when a criticism is made that serves your "self". When you blame others, criticize others, find fault in others to manage their minds and behaviour to serve your "personal preference". To ignorantly assume that they will do anything to accommodate to you when you blame them. My mother in law criticized my wife alot when she was a child growing up. And blamed alot of her unhappiness on my wife, just being a helpless 10 year old kid. And now my wife is an adult, this blame and criticism still continues. My mother in law is 75 years old now. A single word used incorrectly in a sentence that breaks the comfort of her reality, she would go into a 3 day fit of rage. At this age, she still suffers, causes suffering. She continues to blame others for her circumstances. She expects and assume the world must accommodate to her preferences, when she was young, and must accommodate to her now. If 75 years of blaming did not improve her situation, did not improve her mind, did not give her peace, how many more years will she finally achieve the paradise that blame has to offer? Declare virtue, virtue is universal. Criticize behaviours. But never assume safety in blaming someone else and expect them to change for you. Criticize skillfully to develop discernment for what is virtue, so you can develop that in yourself, and notice that in others, and navigate life skillfully, identifying virtuous people to associate with. Keep developing that skill.

It is a good question I used to ask myself. Because there are "blameworthy" behaviour. Behaviour that does cause harm to ourselves and others. We don't have to look that far outside of ourselves to see that we have all done actions worthy of the blame in the cause for someone else's suffering. And that is obviously not a phenomena exclusive to us. You already mentioned a big clue, is in the maturity of the individual's view and attitude towards the cause and effects of an event. It comes down to aversion. Aversion in specifically taking up ANY kind of responsibility is the issue. Responsibility around what you can do, past, present and future of an event, with all the resources you have to position yourself better. To not get into the habit of realizing the power and potential one has. To blame out of aversion, is to hand over all that responsibility and power to do something about the situation, to hand over responsibility to unstable things like someone else, some other organization, society, entity, external phenomena. Shifting responsibility away basically, and foolishly hope for the best, end up suffering betrayal. Not saying you cannot depend on others to help your situation. But to "assume" 100% of your safety in unstable and impermenant things is a recipe for disaster. You are basically putting blind and foolish trust into things that WILL betray your "expectations", by its very imperment nature and design. And that constant turmoil between adopting ignorant expectations and constant betrayal causes the person to fall deeper into despair and confusion. So "seeing things as they really are" as the Buddha often said. To develop the right view and perspective of existence, and know clearly where your work and responsibilities are. We come into this life, and not by the direct choice of our own, "adopted" this situation, this mind, this body. It is like adopting this wild animal. And it will bite and scream, and cause problems in the beginning, untrained. We did not wish this mind and body be in this state, we are not directly to blame for its baseline conditions, but we are nevertheless "responsible" for taming it. Weather we like it or not. It is ours and ours alone. Other people might come tempt this wild animal with treats, and try to abuse it, but we as it's owner are responsible to guard this creature well, tame it. Nobody else is going to do it for us.

There are some who has completed the path in this world. They are called Arahants, those who completed the path. The Buddha is categorized as an arahant as well, along with many of his students who reached the final goal as well. But it is not easy to verify for a lay person. Only Arahants can accurately determine if another has become an arahant, abandoned craving, never to be reborn again. We can only really make the best guess as lay people, according to the signs and features of the arahants the Buddha has laid out in many ways. Like having perfect Sila(ethical conduct) with ease. Incapable of breaking ethical precepts. No fear of death etc. Stream entry requires two conditions for it to arise. The voice of another teaching the true dhamma, and wise/ womb attention (Yoniso manasikara). Make effort to refine those conditions 👍. Disclaimer : This is specific to early Buddhist teachings of the 5 Nikayas suttas 🙏. Not all branches of Buddhism has the same views in the topic.