Forestgreen

Or, you could just read the thread. Or maybe just my posts. It's not like it is one of the threads from "the summer if love", with a post count above 1000.

So when you refer to chinese martial artists, that is the truth. When I refer to chinese teachers, they are wrong? Cool.

Really, has your ability to discuss this topic sunk this low? Can you not recall any of the similar discussions about this topic you have been in (normally with people that feature the moderation log)? Or maybe just look back in this thread, where I gave two examples and you are stuck on one of them. Both of them feature in traditional daoist traditions. I believe that both have value, but they are not the same.

I know, in your opinion it all boils down to abdominal breathing, and next comes oxygen levels. During the last decade, any number of people has written that your view is limited and not in line with what Chinese native qigong, neigong and neidan teachers teach. Cool though that you hold on to your view. I must admit that there are several aspects of these arts that my view differs considerable from where I was ten years ago.

Does neidan make sense, until someone tells you what stuff really means?

Well, I am aware of it. And if your point is that in the daoist section, people making comparison with other (dis)similar methods could be more open to the differences, and that their methods will be compared to the daoist methods, I'm with you.

Some are similar to what Damo Mitchell teaches, these are public and easy to find. Some are similar to what Rudi reaches, it would be rude of me to discuss them here. And some are mudra based. The mudras are publicly available, but lacking in description.

And many that goes with option no 2, which begets the question. Maybe the difference between our understandings is that you focus on taiji (?) and has been introduced to one way of doing things, while I train a method that sooner or later introduces two or more ways of doing a thing or accomplish a goal. Life (and discussions) seems easier when there is just one option, but practice is easier when there are more expedient means.

No No. Why?

Some are in it for cool siddhis. But, the energetics is also a support for the mind, becoming a support for awakening.

But Shaolin traditions do.

In those traditions that claims it has to be built, the (physical) ldt does not exist by definition. I have practices that work on the ldt that definitely feels like the whole lower abdomen is involved. I also have practices that definitely feels like a golf ball sized thing exists in a more specific location inside my lower abdominal area. That leads to questions. Which sensation is the real ldt? And was it created or developed? What if the fallacy is to equal lower abdomen with ldt?

Härligt, välkommen hit.

The last two years I have been working with the pre heaven bagwa. There were a handful of other central experiences inbetween the torus and where I am now, and I am definetly not the same person. I would say that working with the torus fields was very useful, and an important step in the right direction for me.

Does one have to build a dantian in order to be a martial artist? Ask a boxer or a wrestler. They would laugh at the idea. Is the post heaven jing to qi to shen model used by Robert Coons internal alchemy as I see it? No. And I never understood how pasting a "pre heaven" before jing-qi-shen would add clarity. In my practice that doesn't compute, and so far noone has been able to explain it to me. Please do! Is it advantageous to learn methods that supposedly build a physical dantian? Well, anyone can get a sensation of heat and pressure without it. For me, the sensation of (almost) physical movement inside, like tissues being pushed aside by an object, didn't come until after I had worked with the methods that supposedly build a physical dantian. Can't say I relate it to my neidan practice more than as a support for foundational practices. But after years here and on the internet in general, my conclusion is that the world is larger than the method I practice. It is likely that there is a method creating neidan that is based upon the created physical dantian? Yes. Most likely.