Partez

I hope my inevitable destruction under the weight of Rudi's elite, electric lawyer forces will at least show SOME people the type of person he actually is.

Rudi is off to desperately practice his lie detector passing skills.

I for one believe he can lie with the best of them already.  Sweet dreams!

8 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

I would take this more seriously if I were you. I can't fail the lie detector test because I have never faked a demo or video in my life. That I promise you and I am more than happy to take the test, in fact, I might even do that just for fun and post the video on my channel. Actually, I will do that and post the video just for you.

Do we have anyone in the UK who has access to a lie detector test who would be willing to participate, you can ask any question you want regarding my videos and demonstrations and we can see what the results are. This is a 100% serious offer.

I think you should actually learn how law works before you try and threaten me with it.

What's this obsession with a lie detector, when you can just get up and move some pieces of paper around showing you don't have a machine?  Much easier no?  Hahaha.

10 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

43 minutes ago, Partez said:

So the niceties seem to be falling away now that he feels his income stream is being jeopardized, and since he can't actually prove his abilities, now it's down to threats and censorship.

Niceties fell away when you involved my wife without even realizing it. Again blurting out your fantasies as facts.

 

32 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

great idea , I did,  when i was writing my PHD dissertation on intl. law

Just get lost mate, you are starting to sound like someone trying to prove how clever he is to hide his insecurities. 

 

30 minutes ago, Partez said:

Rudi can go ahead an sue me for saying he can't shoot electricity out of his ass, and then his "master" can sue me for saying he can't light things on fire with his eyebrows.  It'll be a fun court case.

Actually, you need to prove that you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I used some sort of machine or trickery to do my demos, you also need to prove you knew for a fact that I was in Ukraine for the sex trade. Both impossible to do.

I don't need to do any demo's or prove anything funny enough. But I can take a lie detector test without the slightest worry that I will fail.

Have you ever used a machine to falsify a demonstration or any of the demonstrations that you posted online?
NO

 

Have you ever used some sort of trickery or slight of hand or magic act or hypnotism to convey having an the ability to project "what you call qi" and generate an electric current in a person of a negative field to affect inanimate pieces of paper?
NO

 

Have you in any of your videos posted been aware of any sort of trickery or slide of hand happening to facilitate the unusual effects happening?
NO

Quite frankly, you can change the wording to whatever you want, I still will not fail a lie detector test because I have never faked a demonstration in my life. 

But if you are so certain, speed things along and DM your details, we will get things moving forward.

 

16 minutes ago, Partez said:

If it's not obvious to you these guys are frauds, that's a you issue.  If you feel "trolled" by me pointing out the truth, you can always get back at me by spending vast sums of money and time studying with Rudi and his cohort.  $5000 was it?  That will really show me.

Don't worry, I will show you. 

Seems like you've done this before!

Also note how this very nice, spiritual guy is acting right now that his money is threatened and he has no reply.

Ofcourse he doesn't actually want to prove what he can supposedly do.  He thinks a lie detector will be enough, which are inadmissible in court, but good luck.

Maybe once you are proven to be a fraud, people who you ripped off can sue you for their money back.

5 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

On a lighter note, my friend shared this article with me about negative ions and meditating near waterfalls. We can talk about that instead of engaging with unhinged trolls.

I was very reasonable and open minded, up until I saw the "masters" at work, and then followed the thread of nonsense.

If it's not obvious to you these guys are frauds, that's a you issue.  If you feel "trolled" by me pointing out the truth, you can always get back at me by spending vast sums of money and time studying with Rudi and his cohort.  $5000 was it?  That will really show me.

10 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yes, very sad. Somehow the “cultists” ended up being the reasonable ones, not the so called freethinkers. Funny how that turned out. If anyone has any genuine questions I’m still happy to help answer but not going to bother anymore with trolls or people just looking to argue.

There's nothing reasonable about being skeptical when someone comes up to you, wiggling their thumb in between their fingers saying they got your nose, if they actually got your nose or not.

At some point you need to call a spade a spade.

Rudi can go ahead an sue me for saying he can't shoot electricity out of his ass, and then his "master" can sue me for saying he can't light things on fire with his eyebrows.  It'll be a fun court case.

1 hour ago, 小梦想 said:

Another fact which is already way passed slandering/libel/defamation with zero evidence as most of your posts have been. I have reported your post and will get a lawyer involved. You can't just keep talking trash with zero proof and this was one post too far.

 

I was in Ukraine because my mother in law had passed away and I was supporting my wife. 

I suggest you google what slandering is and take a look at the legal ramifications associated with presenting opinion as fact harming an individual or business. 

I look forward to you trying to prove you can shoot electricity out of your ass in court.

So the niceties seem to be falling away now that he feels his income stream is being jeopardized, and since he can't actually prove his abilities, now it's down to threats and censorship.

Typical.

22 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

And what makes you so certain? You are already wrong since people have already achieved this without assistance. Again, another claim without any evidence. It’s just your opinion which you present as fact.

 

How about this then? I guarantee then that the “hypnotism” that you do is nothing but your delusion and everyone just plays along with it to entertain you. How would you prove me wrong?

Because their whole system is lead by frauds, the only thing to conclude is he is also a fraud.  What he showed already look fraudulent, but seeing the "masters" at the top pretty much made it blatant that he is using "assistance" to achieve the effect.

Again, the effect is identical to how the static machine works.  It is THE effect.  It might not be the same machine, because people even built these themselves, but that's what's going on.

As for hypnosis, that's exactly what many people believe, and even after being hypnotised their logical mind will justify it in some way as them deciding to do it.  This is both true and not at the end of the day, and if you want to learn about hypnosis I recommend doing a course in it, but it does say something about the human minds capacity to justify our choices and beliefs to the contrary of all the evidence out there.

21 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Crikey, surprised we've got to eight pages already. 

 

Once again, the debate over whether its physically possible to shoot electricity out of your fingers. 

 

For what it's worth, I attended a seminar with Rudi and found him to be a genuinely lovely bloke.

 

He was in Ukraine at the time, at the start of the war, and Russian tanks were moving in. His partner was constantly worried about needing to evacuate but he hung on, committed to ensuring we knew everything we needed to before he bolted. 

 

But I didn't stick with it. Unfortunately, I don't believe this skill is particularly useful, at least in the wider scheme of things.

 

But I can vouch for his character: I don't believe he'd purposefully deceive people. I've never been zapped personally, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

 

But whether that's something worth investing your time and energy into, is a different question.

Well your judgment of character is off because he is a fraud, he does deceive people.  Since the whole system is fraudulent at some point he did strap a device to himself and filmed that video of moving physical objects around.

And stop talking about getting zapped.  HE MOVED PHYSICAL OBJECTS WITH HIS "ENERGY".  Focus on that, and not a subjective feeling you might experience.

The skill isn't useful, because there's nothing there to achieve.  It's fake.

This isn't a debate about it being possible,  it's a conclusion that these guys can't do it.

Also FYI, the only reason people go to Ukraine is for the sex tourism.  Not gonna judge on this one, but you might get a little pissed off since he was doing it on your dime.  He was such a nice guy after all, so he deserves your money I guess.

24 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

If there's one thing I know almost for sure, it's that nobody is going to change their mind about this because of anything I say, but I like hearing myself talk -- so here goes.  As I've already mentioned, awhile back Rudi taught a class on Zoom for all interested Bums for free.  Yes, that's right folks.  No charge.  Afterwards, I consulted with him briefly over private messenger concerning a health problem my partner was having.  At all times, he was personable and uncultlike.  There was no pressure or sales pitch to join his paid group.

It seems like sooner or later you might have signed up to this guy.  Is your mind not changed a little after seeing what I showed?

At least I hope you will be encouraged to do a bit of your own research about the background of this teaching and the "masters" involved before dedicating your money and time to them.

These guys have been around for a while, and I just did a casual internet browse.  If I had full blown autism, who knows how deep the rabbit hole goes.

They seem to be involved in selling some kind of products, importing them from China, maybe to Italy and the roid guy.  That would be interesting to look into.

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

You have to feel the effects. A static shock is a lot different from licking a wall socket. Do you understand this? Or should I simplify it even more.

Forget about feeling.  Feelings are subjective.  What Rudi demonstrates is influencing physical objects with his "energy".  I can guarantee you will never be able to achieve this following their system without "assistance".

3 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yup. There is a way to be skeptical without insults and baseless slander.

There was a time to do this, but again, once you see magic tricks a child can see through, it's impossible not to just laugh at these frauds. 

And don't forget about the people they scammed.  They deserve no civility.  They ARE trash, and that's putting it lightly.
 

They seem to be chums with this roided up, Italian Anthony Robinson here.

I know if I reached the peak of spiritual cultivation, doing motivational seminars with a douche bag is where it's at.

Funny how these guys are happy to shill products, and break bricks on their head, but haven't used any of their supernatural abilities, to, I don't know, beat a world record or two under controlled circumstances.

It's almost like they want to be just famous enough for people to buy all their crap, but not too famous so people don't look very close.

If I spoke Italian, I'm sure it would show some interesting stuff.

2 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Forgot to reply to this earlier but it is spot on. Faqi is not the goal of the practice, it is simply a guidepost and side effect of what you can do once you have reached a certain level of cultivation. People here act like it’s the entire focus and everything ends there once you’ve learned it. The irony is the skeptics are more focused on it than the people actually practicing. In our classes we don’t even talk about it as much as proper breathing, proper diet, correct posture, TCM medicines and methods to be healthier etc. 

That would be expected because the only way the people teaching this system can achieve it is through magic tricks.

They show you the cool stuff so you sign up, and then it becomes all about how this isn't the real goal of the practice, and how you need more subtle energy right now.

The real reason is to be a magician you need a bit of set up, so you can't be expected to perform all the magic tricks at all times.  (too draining on the chi)

So in the end you pay through the nose for some mediocre diet and health advice, and some mediocre Qi Gong practice that was probably copied from somewhere.  At best.

The worst part, is you are giving that money away to shitty, fraudulent people.

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

You've called my opinion "asinine" and have said worse to Rudi.  Disagree with other Bums all you like but please don't attack people's character.  Doing so makes the board an uglier place for all of us.

Frauds deserve to be attacked, shamed and ridiculed.  I was still on the fence until I saw the "masters" of the system in action.

But at some point it's just so blatant that there's just no argument.

Remind me what you said that I found asinine?  Maybe it deserved it maybe not.

1 minute ago, senseless virtue said:

I understand perfectly well that you are pulling a lot punches with little regard to proper investigative dialogue, etiquette, and how others feel about your judgmental views which you explain as straight facts.

I don't really care, how people who care about my regard for blatant frauds feel about my etiquette.  The people I care about have seen what I said and will reach the right conclusions.

2 minutes ago, senseless virtue said:

You are inspecting your attitudes and giving them a public voice.

I don't even understand.  My attitude has nothing to do with reality.  Rudi may be the nicest, soft spoken, proper spelling person, but he's still a piece of shit fraudster wasting people's time and money, so I'd recommend expanding your ideas about judging someone's character.  If you look at interviews about psychopaths, they often talk about how well mannered and proper they were.  Just saying.

 

6 minutes ago, senseless virtue said:

You really shouldn't be discussing things you don't have the faintest idea about.

This just seems like a lame attempt to shut me up.  I'll stop discussing things when I decide to.  There is a nice rabbit whole forming here with this thing, so who knows where it will lead to.

It's got nothing to do with actual Reiki.  I just used the word Reiki to mean "subtle" energy, or basically anything that doesn't involve set up.  They can't be expected to demonstrate their "electric Qi" at any time now, can they?

1 minute ago, senseless virtue said:

There seems to be substantial issue that you write a lot that doesn't actually mean what it implies, and then go on calling others liars without even bothering to make any throughout investigation.

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.

I'm just observing the inner workings of the scam now through his videos.

So they do the big show demonstrations a few times to convince people, then once they hook someone, they probably don't want to have the gimmick on their body constantly, or constantly be pumping electricity through themselves.

So they probably tell their new student something along the lines of, well, for your stage of progress you require a more subtle energy etc. etc. some other BS.

Are you getting it, or not yet?  I'm deducting how they most likely process the people they hook in.

6 minutes ago, senseless virtue said:

Out of curiosity and to measure the credibility of your speech:

 

How many Reiki healers have you counseled personally and what have been your experiences?

 

Why you feel qualified to comment on Reiki as if its methodology was in any way comparable to what is taught and practiced in Chinese Neigong?

My point doesn't have anything to do with reiki.  By reiki I just mean they aren't showing you the magic trick demonstrations that need set up, so their bread and butter energy work is nothing spectacular.

Just going through Andrea's videos, and it seems pretty sad.  I believe he is a genuine seeker that just got conned, because he speaks so honestly about things without a filter.  In this video he gives away that most of the "energy" demonstrations these fakes use is just your typical reiki type stuff:
 

It's most likely because they can't be bothered to wear the device all the time, and risk getting caught with it, so most of the time they only do the "subtle" energy on the people they defraud, and leave the "shocking" demonstrations for "special" occasions (when they have all their equipment ready)

32 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

You literally said a few posts ago that "I know of doctors in thailand who use a machine to charge themselves up, then emit the electricity into people as we do with faqi. The store the energy in their gut and use intention, breath and muscle activation to push the energy out. When they are empty they go back to the machine to charge themselves back up again"
And also : "The above mentioned doctor can do that, you will not find an electrical device on him and he can hold onto that charge for weeks and run a current for quite some time"
So it's not just a "tiny bit" of help, it can literally charge you up to the point of emitting it outside, and you can hold that charge for weeks. 
Also about your master, who exactly is he? Ok, so he has some nice videos of him doing stuff on youtube but of what lineage is he part of, what type of neidan does he teach, who are the patriarchs of the lineage? At least previous people that made such claims provided some background to their school, this is all based on youtube videos of questionable feats.

They are just lying again. 

The practice is described here:  https://acupuncturetoday.com/article/32826-electric-qigong-an-ancient-therapy-evolves

So you literally pump electricity through your body and then into the patient, and from what Andrea describes, it is also given as an "advanced" practice to electrocute yourself (what fun)

I'll just take a moment here and remind everyone that being able to electrocute yourself hasn't been around for that long.  it isn't some ancient system of Daoism. 

On Andrea's site you can read all about the "masters" and probably go on an even deeper dive if you are so inclined into their history: https://www.neiqigongjiaoshiandrea.com/masters

You can see they are all connected.  Just a bunch of con men working together, sharing tricks and ideas, and propping each other up.

 

6 minutes ago, dino said:

magic trick hahaha,breaking granite block with his fingers...

How do you know what it is, where it was made, how it's been treated.  There are countless ways to fake brake stones, but by all means, for anybody thinking of wasting your time and money on these "gurus", go out and get some proper granite and have them break it, but I predict when you offer it, their chi will be off, or they will show you another demonstration that they have prepared.

As for the second video, it is what Rudi shows also, and is exactly how the machine that I ordered works.  At around the 1:15 min mark:
 

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Ah yes, no bias at all there. Tell me why you are even on a forum called “The Dao Bums” if you think Daoist practices are a load of shit? 

It's shameful to associate these frauds with other Daoist practices.  These scammers are an embarrassment to genuine school, with dedicated practitioners.  Why not ask these frauds and scammers what they are doing on a spiritual and philosophical forum, apart from trying to defraud and scam people.

This trash is leading people away from genuine schools.  It's leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of people towards all Daoist practices once they realize they have been scammed, if they are lucky enough to realize it.  Rudi is still here lying through his teeth, because lying is all these people have, and they certainly don't have any shame, so they deserve no civility.
 

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yet you spend so much time trying to disprove it, to the point of buying a static machine.

I bought the machine for my own amusement, and had my eye on it for a while, but the more you post, the more you are coming across as a shill for these people rather than someone who just did a seminar or two.  Now I have no idea if you are a shill, or just a puppet account of Rudi's, since anything is possible on the internet, but if you are a true believer, it's fascinating, and scary, how you bought into what I see as a blatant fraud.

His video was sus, but I could keep an open mind about it, but the moment I saw the "master" doing well known magic tricks (poorly) it wasn't even a question in my mind anymore as the fish rots from the head.

I sincerely hope you don't represent all of Daoism, and that there are people with more level heads.  Actually, I know for a fact there are people like that, thankfully.

1 minute ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Mate you complain about parlour tricks yet you posted this video and said this is similar to what you do:

This is the type of thing that I do, but can you honestly not tell the difference between me and them?  Like the fact that I'm not lying out of my ass about how the phenomena is achieved. 

And if one day I do teach any of this, anyone I teach will be able to create the phenomena right away, and not after many years flailing their arms around in some made up ancient "system" these guys probably came up with between bowel movements.
 

3 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I don’t think you are in any position to judge what looks ridiculous or not. Why not ask Rudi what is going on in those videos instead of coming up to your own (wrong) conclusions. You already got the electrocution machines completely wrong and also thought the head of our lineage is in Thailand (he’s not). Why don’t you just be humble and take the opportunity to learn? Is it so important to be right all the time?

I give zero shits about what Rudi thinks right now.  Like I said, I'll keep an open mind until a CHILD can see someone is fooling them.
I'm sorry for you if you are still skeptical in any way about what's going on after seeing all of it, but it's a YOU problem now.  By all means, throw more money at them and waste more of your time.  It doesn't effect me in any way.

 

18 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yes I’m starting to think the same. I have no problem with genuine skeptics, but when someone already has a huge bias that skews their view or just wants to be right then there is an issue. 

I'll keep an open mind up to the point where a child can spot someone is a fraud.  If you take an issue with that, it's on you.

Once someone is shown to be an obvious fraud, I say get the pitch forks out.  Trash is putting it nicely describing them, and you should be pissed if you wasted your time and money on them.

18 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

They (this Italian group) use machines to electrocute themselves. Master Zhou and Rudi’s lineage don’t. It maybe comes  from Sifu Luo in Thailand, who is not connected to our lineage at all, or maybe it’s something Sifu Constantino came up with. I don’t know, it’s not my lineage. I don’t particularly care either. The practices from Rudi are mainly from Master Zhou in China. Two different countries.

 

All of this can be found out by you simply asking questions to learn more, but you’ve already decided the answer before looking at the facts so it doesn’t really matter to you. I honestly don’t care if you believe faqi exists or not, I and many others will continue to learn regardless. What I care about is the lack of critical thinking and proper investigation. What you thought was a big gotcha moment is actually a completely irrelevant piece of information that doesn’t prove any point. 

Honestly, who uses what is irrelevant because anyone connected to blatant con artists in any way are going to be either frauds, or well meaning people suckered in and perpetuating the BS.

Hearing about them electrocuting themselves just made the connection all the more blatant, but the moment I saw them do a coin vanish and the pyro stunt, as well as a lot of other parlor tricks, I mean, all I'll say is if you still have any trust in this organization then sooner or later your money will be gone anyway, so you might as well give it to them.

Anybody who isn't completely deluded can look at the evidence and decide for themselves.