NaturaNaturans

Numbered fragmentsedit Different sources sometimes number many of these fragments of the expressions of Heraclitus differently. You could not step twice into the same river; for other waters are ever flowing on to you. Couples are wholes and not wholes, what agrees disagrees, the concordant is discordant. From all things one and from one all things. Even sleepers are workers and collaborators on what goes on in the universe. Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony. Character is destiny. https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Heraclitus This is not to different from some eastern schools, is it?

Edit: wrong thread

Possibly. Do you think they are more open minded to European thought as well? I dont want to come of as a bigot, I dont mean this in a derogotory way at all, but I think westerners might be a little more logical in their thoughts. It has it downside tho, in extreme sceptisism, materialism etc.

Just came accross this: Lifetime is a child at play, moving pieces in a game. Kingship belongs to the child. As quoted in The Art and Thought of Heraclitus (1979) Seems to have been a common metaphor in at least western thought since tje beginning.

I understand, I get in that zone sometimes, and you are absolutley right: it is wonderfull, healing and no boredom anywhere.

I find boredom soul crushing tbh, think it is related to my adhd

Please share, philosophical porn is the creme de la creme of porn

How so?

I am an determinist. Since the cosmos and all that have happened, is happening and will happen are depended on each other and the law of cause and effect, I think it is safe to assume that we have exactly zero agency. Both in norse, greek and roman mythology, we find the fates: three women who decide your life, your destiny, before you were born. «There are exactly three of them, and their names suggest their ability to construct the content of time: one is Urd (Old Norse Urðr, “The Past,” and a common word for fate in and of itself), the second Verdandi (Old Norse Verðandi, “What Is Presently Coming into Being”) and the third Skuld (Old Norse Skuld, “What Shall Be”). They live in a hall by a well (Urðarbrunnr, “Well of Fate”) beneath Yggdrasil, the mighty tree at the center of the Norse otherworld, which holds the Nine Worlds in its branches and roots.[2]» https://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/others/the-norns/ This standa in contrast to the abrahamic faiths, where heaven and hell is based on what you choose, and theologians agree that «the problem of evil» is answered by God giving humans free will. Instead of seing determinisim as something depressive, I find it immensly liberating and interresting. For one thing, there is no room for guilt, since… it was going to happen regardless. Secondly, as I heard in an interview by Yuval Noah Harari, it can open the door for self discovery, because you become an observer of yourself, and not an active agent. Thoughts? Does your tradition take a stance on free will vs. determinism?

@Nungali Thank you, a lot of great points and stuff for further «research.» This theme since to be close to your heart/philosophy?

«Know thyself» for those that are interrested, Socrates defense with modern language. It hooked me, at least:

«(since ‘wind’ and ‘Spirit’ mean the same in hebrew, I prefer to only use the term ‘Spirit’ for better understanding).» @Apoostrophe last post ^ Kind of cool. Greek and norse word for spirit is the same as the one for breath aswell, pneuma and ånd. Pneuma is apperantly the word used to translate ruach in the bible, witch has a lot different meanings, 7 according to wiki. funfact is that human and adam(a) means the exact same thing as well: earthly being. Apologies for the tangent.

My take is that it probally is. Allthough written in 1300s, it is belived to be significantly older. And also the tone doesnt strike me as very «Christian.» Runes means «magic» more than an acctual alphabet at that time. Also, when he came back, he used his ability in a very pagan manar, so to speak. And lastly, it is written in rhyme and makes use of kennings (poetic tool, like calling a boat for a sea horse forexample), witch makes them less prone to change. Not denying there could be Christian (and other) influences, that seems very plausible. Christ got accepted long before christianity (the only Christ and no one else) was the hard part. But all in all I think that is secondary, cultures impact each other, both for better and for worse. edit: furthermore, this kind of sacrifice for wisdom is very much true to the character of Odin edit 2: the only sinimiarity is.. well, not much. Odin sacrificing himself, and Jesus getting «sacrificed,» so to speak.

Fascinating stuff, will look deeper into it! I know you are not a lexucion, but there is something about this excerpt from havamal (Words of the high one), that very much seems like an initiation ritual in my opinion. Mithraic maybe, they where present from Irland to Iran, so does seen plausible to me. I wanted to Ask you, do you have any thoughts on this:

somewhat related to this, according to «the immortality key» blood refers to the wine of dionysys, drinken in various greek and near eastern mystery traditions. A little off topic, I know, but If i got the right sense of you, you wouldnt mind some trivia. kykeon

bum1 /bʌm/ noun INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN 1. a vagrant. "bums had been known to wander up to their door and ask for a sandwich" I have mastered being a bum, now wisdom awaits

I feel 100% certain that birth is metaphorical. You are born again when you find christ. Think water/baptism has similar symbolism. How can you literally be born again?

Dispute between man and his soul

So now that you have clarified that you mean mind-matter this is less relevant, but this passage about one of the absolute earliest western thinkers on record might be worth a read: When it comes to mind matter, I would conclude that one has to come from the other in order to interract. We even have a fancy latin term for that, primera materia. But best I stop there before i butcher yet another tradition, but alchemy has to touch on this mind-matter issue, no?

@Zhongyongdaoist you made a statement about the exact topic I was thinking about: can we say that dualism is wrong or less valid? I do not think so

I think we can go way, way back. At least 6000 years:

Nothing ground breaking, just a piece of history: archaeology.org/issues/540-2401/letter-from/11968-rome-jewish-catacombs

First off, i am not interrested in theology, scripture or doctrine in this thread. I want to learn from what culture the faith developed and was influenced by, the cannonization of it, what sciences like archeology, linguistics etc. can tell us. I hope you can accept that in this thread.

Giving this a follow, as I do love reading but hate reading (If that makes sense, witch is does not). I did like this one quite a bit, it feels like a walk in the park with a wise man, reminding you of your excistence being part of a long line and not just a feather in the wind. Ancestors by Neil Oliver, who you might recognize from tv. It is mostly flow of conciousness «philosophyfing» with some fun facts sprinkled in. Like how the german word for the stone gneis the is the ancestor of english nice, witch gives a rich history to an everyday word, imagining stone age people beating rocks together for that Life saving spark. And the word human meaning earthly being. Also some less fun events, like an aboriginal tribe that went downhil quick with the introduction of new drugs.