Zeus

So Kosta is no longer associated with John Change and Nei Kung Practices? Could you please elaborated on this. Do you know why? And how did you find out?

 

Thank you.

 

Artiss

Hi Artiss,

After sifu Chang closed the door for all westerners for further training, Kostas presented his own method of self defence called "Pammachon" based on his experience of 35 years on martial arts. The website is www.pammachon.gr

Kostas is my teacher, so I got all this info right from the source.

Take care

Zeus

I'm not justifying David here but charging a "finder's fee" is a pretty standard business practice. What would be unethical is if he didn't tell his masters that he was charging these people to meet them. If his masters were ok with it, I don't see the problem, not in business terms anyway.

 

The argument that he didn't work for it is absurd. There are many ways to make money, not all of them involve getting a 9 to 5 job. He learned Chinese, built these connections, and presumably practices many hours of qigong a day (which is harder than a majority of jobs out there). So, he's selling his experience just like anyone else. That's the way our economy works for better or worse

And now on a more whimsical note, the character Jing (精) or essence is composed of Mi (米) rice and Qing (青) green. The traditional character for Qi (气) is air or steam over Mi (米) rice. In neidan (内丹) practice you transform Jing (精) to Qi (气), then Qi (气) to Shen (神). In David's practice, you'll be eating rice (米) for a while after transforming your hard earned greenbacks (青) into Qi. So same thing right!

Of course they didnt know in sifu's house about the special "charge" of Verdesi. Otherwise, they wouldn't throw him out of the house. They are not crazy, you know.

As for the "work" thing, if someone has never worked in his life, he has no evaluation for the money. He/she can charge whatever he/she thinks, because he can't understand how difficult is to earn money( in a honest way)

I guess this is a matter of ethics too...

Zeus

No I didnt. You know my issue here is with the beliefsystems that teachings should not cost money.

 

I dont know much about Verdesis history or anything else about the relationship he has to other people I dont know. And I dont trust rumors, especially those put forward on internet, so I want to wait with my judging about his ethics until I meet Verdesi myself.

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Fair enough.You have an open mind, and I hope everything works just fine Sheng Zhen. Just bare in mind to keep your mind open, and question everything(that's my small advice)

 

 

Zeus

Isnt Kosta making $$$ from his books?

 

No. Kostas spend a lot of money for travelling to Indonesia, and the amount he got back from the books is minus, in comparison for what he spend there, and for travel cost.

 

This is not true. It is not like that "now".

 

There are many masters you dont need a credit card to see. And if you realize this, it is not so sad after all...

 

And then, if it is not so sad...where does your argument go? Would you even feel the need to comment on people charging money for what they offer?

 

This whole discussion about Verdesi charging too much money is so childish. Who cares!? (...other than the people that WANT his teaching but WANT HIM to teach them for free) If he charges too much money then just dont go goddammit! Go to someone you feel your money is worth. Or someone that teaches for free. Its not like people shout about jewlery that costs too much money. They just buy something they can afford.

 

But some people will allways think that anything spiritual should be free just because they have been brought up to think is should not be associated with money or materialism. But this view is actually a way to keep it all closely connected to money. And it is a way to make your money a sin, or something coming from the devil, something that makes us loose focus on the spiritual(so give it all to the church instead!). If we only were free of the money and materialisim all would be fine.

 

But I think it is the other way around. If your not able to keep your spiritual focus within the world of materialisim, youre not able to keep your spiritual focus outside of materialism either.

 

One of my friends got really angry because he felt the Kunlun workshop was WAY to expencive and therefore those guys must be fraud, he said. Its just not a very refined view on what spirituality is. As if it is something completely different than what we experience everyday.

 

One thing that the critics of Foundation Training should remember is that no one who actually has been taught by Verdesi feel they have been tricked or not got what their money was worth. This is an important point to remember in this discussion.

 

 

 

I didnt see you question me, about the amount of Euros Verdesi charged for "tourism" in sifu's house. Though he received teachings from Chang for free, then himself charged money from a "thirsty" student for tutorship. I question his ethics, I question his morality.I'm in no position to know about him and his relationship with his current teacher Jiang. I only speak for the things I know, regarding sifu Chang.

 

How come he is been kicked off from sifu's house, if he was a descent character? Ethics and dignity, is much more important than gaining "power". And this man has no ethics or dignity. I don't question his teacher's power(obviously they are strong), but his lack of morality. He created a bussiness, on Kostas footsteps and books.

 

And I said it's sad, addressing to his students. They can't see that their teacher has the character of a spoiled child.A child that never worked in his life, and raised to be an "anthropologist".

 

 

Zeus

Sean,

 

Will you guys be doing another US seminar next year? Any chance of bringing Jiang Sifu to the states? I thought I remember you mentioning you wanted to do that at some point.

 

Cam

I see that the purpose of Sean, and his friends of the "immortal" David, is somehow accomplished. A new "army" of potential customers is about to grow up in the near future. The thread started as sifu's Chang debate, but somehow in the way Sean involved in a delicate(or not) manner.Good luck with your "bussiness".I hope that the "immortal" Verdesi, will achieve higher levels in the future, along with an equal bank account.

Don't fear my friends! There are many caves in China, and many thousands of candles to be burned, in order to create theatrical atmosphere for the westerners!! The "anthropologist" that the rumors say he charged 500-600 euros just to show sifu Chang to a westerner, has many solutions for the "buyers". The "immortal" Verdesi, was kicked out of Chang's house, because of the "tourist attraction" he created.

Beware all,from these "masters". Learn about them. What did they created in their lives? Did they had to work, like the majority of us?Did they ever value the earning of money due to work, or they inherited a large amount, and then ask from us 5000 euros? Did they had to get up early every morning, to get the money to support their families?

Enough said about Verdesi and his followers. He is the only to blame,not his followers, because he took advantage of Kostas and his books. Where he was all these years that Kostas was travelling to Indonesia? Kostas travelled so many times, taught so many people, and never got a dime about that. He just wanted to check his future student first, and then accept him. But now, if you have a credit card, then you have a "master". So sad indeed...

 

WYG

Nope.

Hi orb,

Kostas is no more associated with John Chang, and nei kung practise. He established a system of martial aplications and principles, called Pammachon. The website is www.pammachon.gr. His latest book is about martial arts in ancient Greece and the Mediterranean.I think in Inner Traditions, but i'm not so sure.

Take care

Zeus

Hello to all,

I'm new here.Congratulations for this forum.I hope we can have some good conversations here.