styrofoamdog

I have this eBook -- it's 115 pages and very different from Tao & Longevity. Tao & Longevity focuses on the effects of meditation and explains them using Daoist terminology. It's very good, but a bit limited in what it offers as far as explaining exactly how to meditate, when compared to Working Toward Enlightenment. But it does go over the basics of meditation, and covers the effects of opening the Qi channels in the legs, the Du Mai, the Ren Mai, etc. But it does not cover practical aspects of how to reach those stages, so much. Still, it's a good buy and I really like its appendix on the different routes to cultivating samadhi. It also briefly highlights supernatural abilities that result from samadhi. But as for actually reaching the state of samadhi, it doesn't have a lot of material on it. The Conversations of Nan Huai-Chin and Peter Senge is a series of more informal dialogs between Nan Huaijin and Peter Senge, a Management professor at MIT who learns meditation from him. Nan discusses anapanasati and draws parallels between the stages and those in Daoism such as embryonic breathing. He discusses the Entering the Womb Sutra and how a fetus develops, relating it to anapana practice, again. And he discusses reaching the state of Xi, where breathing becomes very refined and practically stops. They do go off on some different tangents, though (it's pretty informal). I definitely recommend it for its information on anapana, and probably has more practical advice to offer, but it's more scattered, and there is less technical content. I would certainly recommend it for someone who has Working Toward Enlightenment.

I believe the White Skeleton Meditation that Nan Huaijin and Bill Bodri teach comes from a Buddhist sutra that has not been translated into English.... The Essentials of the Secrets of Dhyana Meditation Sutra (禪祕要法經)

Thanks!

Are you going to see him at the school that he set up? I have a question for him.... For Americans and other westerners, what is the most effective and appropriate approach to cultivation?

Daoism and Buddhism have a long history of practitioners who had supernatural abilities, and both Daoist and Buddhist classics teach that supernatural abilities may develop naturally during practice. I don't think we should just cast this aside as if we know that they can't occur. But I don't think we should chase after them either. They're not the point of cultivation, just interesting side-effects.

So you think that a Daoist killing himself with chemicals is cultivating the Dao. Any text that advocates conserving jing. There is no textual basis for making this error, and it only came out of misinterpretations of classics. Since the word jing is used in a variety of ways, jing energy was confused with literal semen. Any text that advocates opening the du mai purposefully by breaking through the three gates. Improper practice of this can cause mental illness, and has in the past.

So Procurator, do you think that being poisoned by an "elixir" of immortality is genuine practice? Do you think that a Daoist eating his own semen in an attempt to recover jing, reflects intelligence that we can't hope to have? Or someone forcing qi up into his head and developing mental illnesses as a result -- is that proper practice?

Have you actually read Daoist classics on meditation? Do you know what people have been practicing over the centuries, and what masters have written in response to these things? Interestingly enough, there is little written about the idea that everything that happens to someone is their destiny, and a lot written about proper meditation practices, admonishing those who stray away.

If people read Daoist classics on meditation, they can see for themselves. The authors criticize popular but incorrect practices while presenting their corrected methods. Meditation practices were misunderstood widely in the past (as they are today), and there were accordingly few people who cultivated the Dao successfully. I'm not sure why this is controversial, it's pretty obvious that finding genuine Daoist masters who have practiced the meditation work successfully, was (and is) a rare thing.

Of course the author of the Tao of Pooh knows nothing about Daoism. Of course the author of the article knows more. But does the author of the article understand the fundamental principles of Daoist meditation practices? Does he understand the relationships that exist between the mind, breathing, and qi? Of course not, because he confuses Daoist tradition with authentic practice, so he's just subscribing to popular superstitions. Even hundreds of years ago, most Daoists were confused about meditation and all sorts of nonsense was being practiced because people (like now) did not really understand the fundamental principles -- why they were doing what they did. The love for self-congratulatory subjective philosophy is what creates a market for books like the Tao of Pooh. The obsession with Daoist tradition and supernatural powers provides a breeding ground for charlatans. If people were actually interested in spiritual cultivation through Daoism, there wouldn't be so many Mantak Chia's in the world.

I'm not aware that he has ever said anything praising Taijiquan or popular Qigong methods. He basically advocates still Buddhist meditation practices, even when discussing Daoism. When he does mention Qigong, it's usually to point out popular misconceptions about Qi and Qi channels that he regards as being foolish.

I've been celibate for awhile now, and I don't really have difficulty with it. The key isn't physical control at all, it's entirely an issue of the mind. People who read about Daoism tend to think that if they go through the motions of meditation and celibacy, that's good enough. That isn't true at all, and the Buddhist understanding of overcoming your desires is closer to the actual Daoist approach. In the classic "Anthology on the Cultivation of Realization", the author writes: "Some ask, 'As we learn to become sages, what can we do about the difficulty of getting rid of the force of habit?' The answer is that it only seems difficult because you aren't willing to get rid of it." The author is stating that we have to look to the origins of our "habits", which are simply products of our own ignorance and resistance to change. If someone wants to be celibate but gives into desires, then it is solely a failure of the mind. If you can extinguish sexual thoughts, the urges to engage in sexual actions do not present themselves.

As I see it, a Daoist priest is someone who should have already been an extremely dedicated person who has done the meditation work for years and has had real spiritual accomplishments. Otherwise, why would people look up to you or go to you for council? It's like deciding that you want to open a Gongfu school without before you have any skill at it. Why would anyone want to attend that person's classes and learn from them?

Blah blah blah, I know he's authentic, I know he isn't authentic. Blah blah blah. This is like every other thread on Tao Bums. And of course when it comes to developing Qi and practicing cultivation, nobody thinks to read important Daoist classics or Buddhist sutras. Everyone just wants to follow Guru X and his super-magic-powers-neigong-or-qigong system.

I can't say a whole lot from experience, but from what I understand, siddhis can be gotten at earlier points in cultivation as well. Nan Huaijin writes that they basically come from samadhi, but I can't confirm that this is true for myself. But the 6 supernatural abilities mentioned in Buddhist writings don't come until later, so maybe this is at the stage of Void to Tao. He also writes of people cultivating different phenomena.... So it would seem that people can cultivate different effects / phenomena at lower levels, at least through esoteric Buddhist practices.

:lol: I like Dao Zhen's Chinese saying: "Crows are universally black". Very fitting.

There are so many dubious sources out there, that the only recommendation I have is to find out for yourself through meditation. The subject of Qi, what it is, how it interacts with the mind, body, and breathing is a huge subject. There are very few good authors and teachers out there that can teach you about the nature of Qi. Some people can teach you how to cultivate and circulate it in a particular way, but that's not the same as understanding the nature of Qi.

That's only what they want you to think! It's all a Merovingian plot with the Freemasons, Knights Templar, and the Illuminati. They're going to use mind control powers passed down to them from ancient Egyptian mystery schools, to turn us all into cyborg zombies for their nefarious purposes!

I think if people read Daoist classics, and genuinely try to understand and practice Daoism, then that makes them Daoists. But for people who want to mix Daoist ideas with their own new age philosophies, or just think of Daoism as simple philosophy, or only practice Qigong and just want good health or super powers.... to me those people don't strike me as Daoists.

I agree with this. It's probably the biggest topic for people who start taking an interest in internal alchemy, because it's an obstacle for them. But if people want to practice this, why do they think they can do that while giving into all of their desires and normal behavior?

Only on Tao Bums! I can't believe that people are so naive that they are taking this seriously. The guy claims that his teacher is 50,000 years old and comes from a race of extraterrestrials. And then he trained David Verdesi in practices that involved drinking urine, tugging on his genitals, and sticking things up his anus. The even more hilarious thing is that Mantak Chia actually bought it, and as for the practices, claims to "remember them". For every charlatan I guess there is a group of naive westerners who want super powers, and are willing to throw out their bank accounts or hang sticks from their anuses in the chance that they may someday get fantastic supernatural abilities.

I'm not sure exactly what is in the book, other than that it teaches a variation of the Baduanjin (Eight Pieces of Brocade qigong). I've never read the book before, although it sounds interesting. The quote is just from a web page relating information given by Da Liu, who apparently learned from Li Ching Yuen. http://www.chinahand.com/qigong/from_da_liu.htm