Yen Hui

Hexagram 20 "In nature a holy seriousness is to be seen in the fact that natural occurrences are uniformly subject to law. Contemplation of the divine meaning underlying the workings of the universe gives to the man who is called upon to influence others the means of producing like effects. This requires that power of inner concentration which religious contemplation develops in great men strong in faith. It enables them to apprehend the mysterious and divine laws of life, and by means of profoundest inner concentration they give expression to these laws in their own persons. Thus a hidden spiritual power emanates from them, influencing and dominating others without their being aware of how it happens." Six at the beginning means: Boy like contemplation. For an inferior man, no blame. For a superior man, humiliation. "This means contemplation from a distance, without comprehension. A man of influence is at hand, but his influence is not understood by the common people. This matters little in the case of the masses, for they benefit by the actions of the ruling sage whether they understand them or not. But for a superior man it is a disgrace. He must not content himself with a shallow, thoughtless view of prevailing forces; he must contemplate them as a connected whole and try to understand them."

The I Ching predates the Tao Te Ching, and Lao Tzu nurtured his philosophy on its teachings. That is a widely accepted fact, to the best of my knowledge. I have never read or heard of any Taoist who disputed that. It is certainly the viewpoint held by Wilhelm, as is stated within his own "standard" version of the I Ching; and he certainly ranks as one of the 20th century's greatest I Ching masters. If you know better, I would appreciate reading about your sources.

Are you familiar with the I Ching Oracle? If not, I would give some serious thought to cultivating a deep and intimate acquaintance with it. It is stated within The Great Treatise that the Oracle is a time-tested and proven means of accessing higher nature and wisdom; and it claims that it was by the "fourfold" use of the Oracle that the Ancestors succeeded at the work of purifying their hearts and completely realizing their innate capacities. There are several conditions that must be met, though, before you will have any real success with it. They are delineated throughout The Treatise itself, and main body of the I Ching. One such condition is abstinence from repeatedly asking the same question, over and over, which is a sure sign of unbelief. The Oracle may overlook that fault in the beginning, but eventually will become silent if you persist. Another condition that must be met is absolute sincerity in applying the counsel received. Failure to apply it is merely another sign of unbelief and the Oracle will not tolerate such an attitude for very long. There are several conditions, which I cannot mention at present, due to time constraints, but if you carefully cultivate true sincerity and heart devotion, Heaven will be your guide and protector. Unify your will, govern your thoughts wisely, cultivate silence and stillness, deep concentration, and the contemplative life, and the Oracle will be to you a flowing fountain of eternal wisdom and high counsel, as though it were the Illustrious Ancestor in the flesh!

These are the first two lines of Chapter/Section 48 of the Tao Te Ching. Now, Cleary's translation of these two lines is slightly different, and reads like this: For learning you gain daily; for the Way you lose daily. Now, personally, I prefer Cleary's rendering, but before examining its meaning, it is useful for us, perhaps, to look first at Chapters/Sections One and Twenty, in order to establish some kind of base or foundation:- TAO TE CHING - CHAPTER ONE 01 - A way can be a guide, but not a fixed path; 02 - Names can be given, but not permanent labels. 03 - Nonbeing is called the beginning of heaven and earth; 04 - Being is called the mother of all things. 05 - Always passionless, thereby observe the subtle; 06 - Ever intent, thereby observe the apparent. 07 - These two come from the same source but differ in name; 08 - Both are considered mysteries. 09 - The mystery of mysteries 10 - Is the gateway of marvels. Regarding lines 3 and 4 above, Cleary's Commentary offers the following explanation: "Nonbeing, or the nameless, stands for passionless, uncontrived, formless awareness. Being, or the named, stands for discursive intellectual activity." Regarding lines 5 and 6, his Commentary offers this explanation, which is foundational, I feel, to a correct understanding of the first two lines in Chapter/Section 48:- "These lines (5 and 6 above) are one of the keys to Taoist praxis. Chen Jingyuan, an adept of the Complete Reality School, explains: 'Both passion and intent mean focusing the mind on things. The subtle is the essential; and it also means the most extremely rarified. The evident is an edge [of reality], like a little pathway by a major road. The word also means return [what comes back to you as a result of intentions]. 'The empty selfless Tao is immutable, so it is said to have no intention; yet it becomes pregnant with myriad beings, so it is said to have passion. 'To observe the subtle with constant dispassion means to keep the attention on emptiness; to onserve the evident with constant intent means to sustain certain thoughts. 'Constancy means real constancy, the Great Way, of which dispassion and intent are adaptive functions.' [End of Chen Jingyuan's Explanation of Lines 5 and 6] Regarding lines 7 and 8, the same Commentary offers the following explanation for them: "The above mentioned two aspects of awareness, formless intuition and discursive intellect, both derive from an even profounder source. Both kinds of awareness are unfathomable mysteries, if for no other reason than that they are themselves the means by which we assess our experiences of them; and it is for the same reason that their source is by its own nature an even greater mystery." Regarding lines 9 and 10, the Commentary offers this: "In terms of the mystic psychology of Taoism, according to the Complete Reality school, this refers to the so-called 'mysterious pass,' the central switch post or 'opening' between the rational and intuitive modes of awareness, described in the earlier passage as intentional observation of the apparent and dispassionate observation of the subtle. Taoist practice involves 'opening the mysterious pass' to allow the mind to work in both modes without interference." Turning now to Chapter/Section 20, line 1 of it says: "Detach from learning and you have no worries." Now, once again, Cleary's Commentary offers the following explanation for this:- "Here 'learning' means habituation to convention. Chen Jingyuan says, 'Modern learning is superficial. Detachment from learning does not mean not learning anything at all; it means maintaining the natural essence of mind.' Lin Dong says, 'If you give up the original natural essence of mind and seek the Way outside, there is something special called learning, which is all externally oriented. Only by detachment from this learning can you be worry free: this is attained spontaneously by following essential nature; it is not learned.' ( Taoist Classics, Volume 1, p. 118 ) Returning now to Chapter/Section 48, and the first two lines of it, which you have quoted, I feel Cleary's Commentary on line 3 offers us some insight into the original intent or meaning of lines 1 and 2. Line 3, in Cleary's translation, says "Losing and losing," which he says "means shedding psychological barriers to the reality of the way, barriers created by self-assertion and the accretions of mundane conditioning." ( Taoist Classics, V. 1, p. 126 ) So, in light of the above, I'd say that the "learning" and "unlearning" spoken of in lines 1 and 2 essentially refers to the superficial learning, false conditioning, and bad habits acquired through a typical conventional education, which is highly fragmented and incomplete by nature, within the context of a so-called "modern" society. In that regard, then, I find myself agreeing with the basic premise of the Tao of Pooh, concerning the several obvious pitfalls of such a highly 'constricted' form of education.

The term 'confusionist' comes across to me as a derogatory term as much directed at the 'Confucian', if not more so, as at the Westerner. The obvious parallellism between the two terms leads me to that conclusion. I suspect I might read it some day soon, not for myself, but for my daughter's sake. She's just completed Grade 5 and will have 1 more year of conventional education in the state school system. After that, it's all home-schooling for her. And the Tao of Pooh will probably be on her tailor-made curriculum for either Grade 7 or 8.

Quite correct. It was clearly stated from the outset that I was posting some things for the few who are not "entirely closed-minded", to the Taoist classics, of course. Now, anyone who plainly says out loud that they are bored with the sayings of Taoist antiquity obviously has an entirely closed mind toward them. They do not belong to the tiny group of the receptive few for whose sake alone I ventured to post what I have, thus far.

Can I blame the vibs on a bad caffeine overdose? True! Yes, I'm interested in seeing a demonstration of it, on your terms. You have my word not to view as "some kind of challenge."

Since freeform alludes above to generalizations, I cannot help but to note the irony in the above quote from the 'Book of Pooh', as it's the quintessential illustration of that particular pitfall. It's as much a gross caricature of the history of Chinese thought as of Western thought. It painfully illustrates just how little knowledge the author had of those fields of enquiry, or the history of Eastern and Western "ideas". Read a good history of Chinese ideas and see if what I say is'nt so. There is no way you can stereotype Confucians, or Taoists, or Westerners in the above manner. This should appear abundantly clear merely from lino's earlier post, alone:- The Confucian teaching on meditation, to which Bodri has alluded in the above book, is clearly supported by the following comments made by Shaolin Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit, in his Complete Book of Zen:- FOUR COMMENTS MADE BY GRANDMASTER WONG:- 01 - "Virtually all the great scholars responsible for the revival of Confucianism during the Sung Dynasty ... studied Zen. Some of them made a point of spending some time each year in Zen monasteries to practise Zen." ( p. 167 ) 02 - "During the Sung Dynasty, Zen as meditation was such an important practise among Confucian scholars that Zhu Xi's (Chu Hsi's) advice to 'spend half the day on meditation, and the other half on study' became a Confucian axiom." ( p. 168 ) 03 - "Zen philosophy on cosmic reality, where form is emptiness and emptiness is form, also had a remarkable influence on Confucian philosophers and scientists (or rationalists). The Confucian philosophy that the universe can be explained by the two primordial concepts of 'chi' (energy) and 'li' (principle) was a result of the Buddhist philosophy of emptiness and form. Lu Xiang Shan (1139-93) said: 'The cosmos is my mind; my mind is the cosmos.' " ( p. 168 - Please note that Lu Xiang Shan was the teacher of the great Neo-Confucian Wang Yang-ming. ) 04 - "Confucian philosophers and scientists did not merely speculate on the cosmos. Through the practice of Zen meditation and the study of Taoist thought, they discovered astonishing facts that were not known to modern science until many centuries later. For example, Zhou Dun Yi (1017-73), often regarded as the father of Confucian physics, systematically described the structure of the cosmos using the Taoist Taiji concept in terms which modern scientists would interpret as the constant integration and disintegration of energy and matter. His contemporary, Shao Yong (1011-77), described the subatomic world using the Taoist Bagua (Pakua) concept in terms now used in computer science and to explain DNA!" ( p. 168-169 ) Now, assuming the above is true, in fact, (as I do,) that it was the wide-spread habit of Confucian scholars, at least during the Sung Dynasty period, to actually spend half of every single day in deep meditation, then how utterly ridiculous does that make the Pooh Book sound? At least in regard to its general stereotype or false caricature of Confucians. In the last of the four quotes, Grandmaster Wong says "Confucian philosophers and scientists did not merely speculate on the cosmos. Through the practice of Zen meditation and the study of Taoist thought, they discovered astonishing facts that were not known to modern science until many centuries later." However, the Pooh Book says that "rather than learn from Taoist teachers and from direct experience," the Confucian "learns intellectually and indirectly from books;" which, as we plainly see, is a complete contradiction of Grandmaster Wong! But who is right, though? Well, let us look into The Great Treatise (in Book 2 of Wilhelm's I Ching) for some clues:- 05 - The Great Treatise - Part 2 - Chapter 5 " In the Changes it is said: 'If a man is agitated in mind, and his thoughts go hither and thither, only those friends on whom he fixes his conscious thoughts will follow.' "The Master said: 'What need has nature of thoughts and care? In nature all things return to their common source and are distributed along different paths; through one action, the fruits of a hundred thoughts are realized. What need (has) nature of thought, of care?' " 06 - Again from The Great Treatise - Part 2 - Chapter 5 " The Master said: Yen Hui is one who will surely attain it. If he has a fault, he never fails to recognize it; having recognized it, he never commits the error a second time. In the Changes it is said: 'Return from a short distance. No need for remorse. Great good fortune.' " This is an example of a line showing that one can learn from experience. Yen Hui was a favorite disciple of Confucius. It is said in the Analects too that he never committed the same error twice. See the explanation of the nine at the beginning in Hexagram 24, Fu, RETURN (Bk. III of Wilhelm's I Ching)." [End of Quotes] So, here we have the teaching of The Treatise, on the practice of experimental learning, or learning directly from experience. Please note regarding the words, "The Master said," that it's virtually accepted by all that this expression refers to Confucius. The first quote says that "through one action, the fruits of a hundred thoughts are realized." Now, does that sound like the teaching of a heady "intellectual," or one who learns only "indirectly from books," as the Pooh Book asserts, rather than "from direct experience?" In the second quote, Wilhelm states that the Confucian Yen Hui exemplifies this experimental practice, of learning directly "from experience!" This classic was actually written by the earliest known Neo-Confucians, descending from the great Yen Hui, I believe, and down through Mencius. It should be noted that though it is widely held Yen Hui attained the Tao, he did not record any of his teachings! How's that for a head-strong "intellectual"? What is known of, or about him comes through secondary sources, like The Treatise and Chuang Tzu's own writings, which I've quoted below, in corroboration of both The Treatise and Grandmaster Wong; and thus discrediting the Pooh Book's gross caricaturization. CHUANG TZU'S DEPICTION OF YEN HUI:- 07 - From Chapter 6, entitled: 'The Great Ancestral Master' "I'm gaining ground," said Yen Hui. "What do you mean?" asked Confucius. "I've forgotten Humanity and Duty completely." "Not bad! But that's still not it." A few days later they met again and Yen Hui said, "I'm gaining ground." "What do you mean?" "I've forgotten ritual and music completely." "Not bad! But that's still not it." A few days later they met again and Yen Hui said, "I'm gaining ground." "What do you mean?" "I sit quietly and forget." Confucius shifted around uneasily. "What do you mean 'sit quietly and forget'?" he asked his disciple. "I let the body fall away and the intellect fade. I throw out form, abandon understanding - and then move freely, blending away into the great transformation. That's what I mean by 'sit quietly and forget'." "If you blend away like that, you're free of likes and dislikes," said Confucius. "If you're all transformation, you're free of permanence. So in the end, the true sage here is you. So you won't mind if I follow you from now on, will you?" Only a true sage masters true understanding. What does "true sage" mean? The true sages of old never avoided want, never flaunted perfection, never worked at schemes. If you're like that, you can be wrong without remorse and right without conceit. You can scale the heights without trembling in fear, dive into deep water without getting wet, walk into fire without getting burned. This is how understanding can ascend delusion into the heights of Tao." 08 - From Chapter 4, entitled 'In the World of Men' YEN HUI WENT TO SEE Confucius and asked permission to take a trip.1 "Where are you going?" "I'm going to Wei." "What will you do there?" "I have heard that the ruler of Wei is very young. He acts in an independent manner, thinks little of how he rules his state, and fails to see his faults. It is nothing to him to lead his people into peril, and his dead are reckoned by swampfuls like so much grass.2 His people have nowhere to turn. I have heard you say, Master, `Leave the state that is well ordered and go to the state in chaos! At the doctor's gate are many sick men.' I want to use these words as my standard, in hopes that I can restore his state to health." "Ah," said Confucius, "you will probably go and get yourself executed, that's all. The Way doesn't want things mixed in with it. When it becomes a mixture, it becomes many ways; with many ways, there is a lot of bustle; and where there is a lot of bustle, there is trouble - trouble that has no remedy! The Perfect Man of ancient times made sure that he had it in himself before he tried to give it to others. When you're not even sure what you've got in yourself, how do you have time to bother about what some tyrant is doing? "Do you know what it is that destroys virtue, and where wisdom comes from? Virtue is destroyed by fame, and wisdom comes out of wrangling. Fame is something to beat people down with, and wisdom is a device for wrangling. Both are evil weapons - not the sort of thing to bring you success. Though your virtue may be great and your good faith unassailable, if you do not understand men's spirits, though your fame may be wide and you do not strive with others, if you do not understand men's minds, but instead appear before a tyrant and force him to listen to sermons on benevolence and righteousness, measures and standards - this is simply using other men's bad points to parade your own excellence. You will be called a plaguer of others. He who plagues others will be plagued in turn. You will probably be plagued by this man. "And suppose he is the kind who actually delights in worthy men and hates the unworthy-then why does he need you to try to make him any different? You had best keep your advice to yourself! Kings and dukes always lord it over others and fight to win the argument. You will find your eyes growing dazed, your color changing, your mouth working to invent excuses, your attitude becoming more and more humble, until in your mind you end by supporting him. This is to pile fire on fire, to add water to water, and is called `increasing the excessive.' If you give in at the beginning, there is no place to stop. Since your fervent advice is almost certain not to be believed, you are bound to die if you come into the presence of a tyrant. "In ancient times Chieh put Kuan Lung-feng to death and Chou put Prince Pi Kan to death. Both Kuan Lung- feng and Prince Pi Kan were scrupulous in their conduct, bent down to comfort and aid the common people, and used their positions as ministers to oppose their superiors. Therefore their rulers, Chieh and Chou, utilized their scrupulous conduct as a means to trap them, for they were too fond of good fame. In ancient times Yao attacked Ts'ung-chih and Hsu-ao, and Yu attacked Yu-hu, and these states were left empty and unpeopled, their rulers cut down. It was because they employed their armies constantly and never ceased their search for gain. All were seekers of fame or gain - have you alone not heard of them? Even the sages cannot cope with men who are after fame or gain, much less a person like you! "However, you must have some plan in mind. Come, tell me what it is." Yen Hui said, "If I am grave and empty-hearted, diligent and of one mind, won't that do?" "Goodness, how could that do? You may put on a fine outward show and seem very impressive, but you can't avoid having an uncertain look on your face, any more than an ordinary man can.3 And then you try to gauge this man's feelings and seek to influence his mind. But with him, what is called `the virtue that advances a little each day' would not succeed, much less a great display of virtue! He will stick fast to his position and never be converted. Though he may make outward signs of agreement, inwardly he will not give it a thought! How could such an approach succeed?" "Well then, suppose I am inwardly direct, outwardly compliant, and do my work through the examples of antiquity? By being inwardly direct, I can be the companion of Heaven. Being a companion of Heaven, I know that the Son of Heaven and I are equally the sons of Heaven. Then why would I use my words to try to get men to praise me, or try to get them not to praise me? A man like this, people call The Child. This is what I mean by being a companion of Heaven. "By being outwardly compliant, I can be a companion men. Lifting up the tablet, kneeling, bowing, crouching down - this is the etiquette of a minister. Everybody does it, so why shouldn't I? If I do what other people do, they can hardly criticize me. This is what I mean by being a companion of men. "By doing my work through the examples of antiquity, I can be the companion of ancient times. Though my words may in fact be lessons and reproaches, they belong to ancient times and not to me. In this way, though I may be blunt, I cannot he blamed. This is what I mean by being a companion of antiquity. If I go about it in this way, will it do?" Confucius said, "Goodness, how could that do? You have too many policies and plans and you haven't seen what is needed. You will probably get off without incurring any blame, yes. But that will be as far as it goes. How do you think you can actually convert him? You are still making the mind 4 your teacher!" Yen Hui said, "I have nothing more to offer. May I ask the proper way?" "You must fast!" said Confucius. "I will tell you what that means. Do you think it is easy to do anything while you have [a mind]? If you do, Bright Heaven will not sanction you." Yen Hui said, "My family is poor. I haven't drunk wine or eaten any strong foods for several months. So can I be considered as having fasted?" "That is the fasting one does before a sacrifice, not the fasting of the mind." [Yen Hui said,] "May I ask what the fasting of the mind is?" Confucius said, "Make your will one! Don't listen with your ears, listen with your mind. No, don't listen with your mind, but listen with your spirit. Listening stops with the ears, the mind stops with recognition, but spirit is empty- and waits on all things. The Way gathers in emptiness alone. Emptiness is the fasting of the mind." Yen Hui said, "Before I heard this, I was certain that I was Hui. But now that I have heard it, there is no more Hui. Can this be called emptiness?" "That's all there is to it," said Confucius. "Now I will tell you. You may go and play in his bird cage, but never be moved by fame. If he listens, then sing; if not, keep still. Have no gate, no opening, but make oneness your house and live with what cannot be avoided. Then you will be close to success. "It is easy to keep from walking; the hard thing is to walk without touching the ground. It is easy to cheat when you work for men, but hard to cheat when you work for Heaven. You have heard of flying with wings, but you have never heard of flying without wings. You have heard of the knowledge that knows, but you have never heard of the knowledge that does not know. Look into that closed room, the empty chamber where brightness is born! Fortune and blessing gather where there is stillness. But if you do not keep still - this is what is called sitting but racing around. Let your ears and eyes communicate with what is inside, and put mind and knowledge on the outside. Then even gods and spirits will come to dwell, not to speak of men! This is the changing of the ten thousand things, the bond of Yu and Shun, the constant practice of Fu Hsi and Chi Ch'u. How much more should it be a rule for lesser men!" [End of Quote(s) from Chuang Tzu] Now I ask you: Does Chuang Tzu's depiction of Confucius and his disciples, as depicted in Yen Hui, support the viewpoint of Pooh's Book, or Grandmaster Wong's and that of The Great Treatise? Btw, Wilhelm states in the I Ching that the teachings of The Great Treatise are best studied in conjunction with two other Confucian classics entitled The Doctrine of the Mean and The Great Learning. Professor Cheng Man-ch'ing, the great 20th century Tai Chi master taught these classics to his students, claiming that they contained several important keys to Tai Chi mastery! This is explained by Wolfe Lowenthal in his two books on Professor Cheng, entitled There Are No Secrets and Gateway to the Miraculous. Seeing, now, the Pooh Book's skewed treatment of Confucians, how reliable then is it with regard to its treatment of both Taoists and Westerners? Does it account for the many different varieties of Taoism; like Neo-Taoism, for example, which is an integrated system or unity of Taoist, Confucian, and Buddhist practice? And what about it's quoting the Western Thoreau? Is'nt that the epitomy of irony, when on the other hand, as indicated above, it stereotypes all Western philosophers as lacking the Taoist wholeness and independence of thought? And what about Wordsworth and those like him? Does the Pooh Book's above caricaturization of Western thinkers as "abstract," "intellectual," "inexperienced," "incomplete," "imbalanced" and all "dried-up," equally apply to Wordsworth?" FOUR QUOTES FROM WILLIAM WORDSWORTH:- 09 - "When from our better selves we have too long been parted by the hurrying world, and droop. Sick of its business, of its pleasures tired, how gracious, how benign in solitude." 10 - "With an eye made quiet by the power of harmony, and the deep power of joy, we see into the life of things." 11 - "Come forth into the light of things, Let Nature be your teacher." 12 - "Nature never did betray the heart that loved her."

In An Online Essay About Wilhelm (<=LINK), we read the following statement about his profound respect for Goethe: "Wilhelm was born far from China, in Germany, in 1873. As a student in a prestigious school, Tubinger Slift, he had broad cultural interests with a special love for the works of the great German poet, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe." His love for Goethe is quite apparent, for example, in his Lectures on the I Ching, where he quotes him several times, to illustrate the Teachings of the I Ching. The reason for this is obvious, I feel: It's because he believed there is a close affinity between the two; but the same observation can be made of several Western thinkers, contrary to the claim(s) made by The Pooh Book. The following two quotes from him exemplify this close affinity, and strike me as being in perfect alignment with the spirit of Hexagram 26, as quoted above / below:- 01 - "All intelligent thoughts have already been thought; what is necessary is only to try to think them again." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, and also this next one => 02 - "All truly wise thoughts have been thoughts already thousands of times; but to make them truly ours, we must think them over again honestly, till they take root in our personal experience." 03 - Hexagram 26 ( <=LINK )

To which of the two above categories does "eesh" belong: the decent or the patronizing? A big yaawwwnnn! Are you trying to say the vocabulary of "Pooh"-lingo is insubstantial? Ah, but it "feels" sooo good - right? Shusssh! Don't let Taomeow hear you you say that. It'll hurt her feelings! LOL Hexagram 26 ( <=LINK ) THE IMAGE Heaven within the mountain: The image of THE TAMING POWER OF THE GREAT. Thus the superior man acquaints himself with many sayings of antiquity And many deeds of the past, In order to strengthen his character thereby. Heaven within the mountain points to hidden treasures. In the words and deeds of the past there lies hidden a treasure that men may use to strengthen and elevate their own characters. The way to study the past is not to confine oneself to mere knowledge of history but, through application of this knowledge, to give actuality to the past. If you meet him on the Way, say hello for me, and tell him I said he should drop by my place again, some time "real" soon! You don't care? Oh no, I'm positively shattered! Everyone knows "real" Taoists care about what's real; or so I use to think. Silly me. Dreaming again. LOL Craving? What do they say about "craving"? That it only causes suffering, maybe, or something like that! LOL How "rational" for a "honey-craving" Pooh devotee. I'm not at all surprised, to be honest, though!

Some touchie-feely "Pooh-lingo" all for me! Ah shucks! Now you've gone and done made me feel like a big piece of Pooh. Ahhhh, how really special, but you should'nt have. What are feelings any way, if not just passing moods of the heart? Grand ol' illusions, as they say. Interesting. Go for it, if you feel like it. Let's see what you got there. Knock yourself out trying. Trust me when I say that I can handle "the ride". Lao Tzu distinguishes between the being and non-being of Tao. That is very clear. If you deny that, then just say so and we'll check the map again. It seems equally clear to me he was writing about the ever-changing manifestations of the "being" of Tao, or the tracks it leaves within time and space. The unmanifest aspect of Tao, that is to say, the non-being of Tao within the Great Void was not the map's "topi-graphical" subject, in a strict manner of speaking - and yet as I have said - the being and non-being of Tao differ only in name, at least according to "the particular map" in question. So Lao Tzu only intended to hinder our progress by giving us a map of the Way? How very insightful. You're either one with the map, freeform, or you "had enough of the map." Which is it? It seems to me that if you were trully one with the map, then you'd be a "real" Taoist, but you claimed earlier that you were not. So which one of the two is the "real" you?

You've missed an important word there, I believe: It should read, "not the eternal Tao." In other words, it is not the Imageless Image, or the Tao in Its highest state of Non-being. But Lao Tzu did'nt stop there, did he? If he had, then the rest of the Tao te Ching could not have been written. The obvious question, then, arising from the words you've just quoted, is this: What, then, did Lao Tzu write 5000 Chinese characters about, if not about the Eternal Tao? He wrote about the "Being of Tao," or the 10,000 manifestions of Tao within time and space. There are no words that can describe the Non-being of Tao, but there are at least 5000 Chinese characters to describe the 10,000 manifestations of Tao's being in time and space. Cleary translates line two in the following terms: "Names can be given, but not permanent labels." The reason for this is obvious, I think, and it's because the world of being is continuously changing. However, if you keep reading through this first chapter of Lao Tzu, you'll see that he very clearly says that "being" and "non-being" are one in terms of their origin, and different only in name. What do they say about appearances? If you thought even for a second, after all I've posted in this thread, that I was either evading the meaning of your quotes, or even worse still, that I did'nt care what they meant, then you obviously deluded yourself. But rather than give you the satisfaction of my thoughts on those now, I'll instead quote some Chuang Tzu back at you, for the time being:- TWO QUOTES FROM CHUANG TZU:- 01 - "The world thinks the most valuable exhibition of Tao is found in its classic books. But books are only a collection of words. Words are valuable: what is valuable in them is the ideas they convey. But those ideas are a sequence of something else, and that something else can't be conveyed by words. When the world, because of the value it attaches to words, commits those words to books, the thing it so values them for may not deserve to be valued. Because what the world values is'nt what is really valuable." 02 - "Fishing baskets are for catching fish. But when the fish are caught, you forget the baskets. Snares are for catching hares, but when the hares are trapped, you forget the snares. Words are for conveying ideas, but when the ideas are understood, you forget the words. How I'd love to talk with someone who's forgotten all the words!" Both of the above quotes are taken from, The Tao - Finding the Way of Balance and Harmony, pp. 14-15. With a third quote from Huainan Tzu, and a final fourth quote from the I Ching, just to round things off:- 03 - "Those who know how to learn are like axles of a car: the center of the hub does not itself move, but with it they go a thousand miles, beginning again when they finish, operating an inexhaustible resource. Thos who do not know how to learn are as though lost: tell them the cardinal directions, and they misunderstand; listening from their own point of view, they are disoriented and therefore fail to get the gist of the whole matter." ( Taoist Classics, Vol. 1, p. 374 ) 04 - LINK=> Hexagram 20 - Line 6 Contemplation of his life. The superior man is without blame. "While the preceding line represents a man who contemplates himself, here in the highest place everything that is personal, related to the ego, is excluded. The picture is that of a sage who stands outside the affairs of the world. Liberated from his ego, he contemplates the laws of life and so realizes that knowing how to become free of blame is the highest good."

Not sure what you mean, really. The fact is, it was not entirely clear from your formatting that all the quotes were actually from Pooh's Tao; despite the fact you did state you were quoting the passages you underlined in your copy of that book. Still, that alone is insufficient in itself to make it clear, to anyone who has'nt read that text, like myself, that all the quotes you posted were taken from that one text source. But, since we're speaking of the ironic, I should say that I found the following statement by freeform to be ironic:- Based on the above confession, freeform, it would appear your problem with the "canonical texts" is that your method of approach was too "critical" or "intellectual" in nature. That strikes me as ironic, and the completely wrong spirit in which to approach the study of such texts. As hard as I try, I can't remember ever reading of a contemporary Taoist master ever making a similar statement as this. Can you? I mean, have you ever heard of a contemporary Taoist master ever claiming that s/he does'nt read much of the canonical texts any longer, for any reason whatever, let alone those stated by yourself? However, regarding the nature of cosmic intelligence, I would agree with you that it's proper seat is the primal spirit mind, as opposed to the earthly intellect. You, on the other hand, appear to have conceded my original point - that some degree of natural reason or intellectual knowledge is required in the work of disseminating this "higher" intelligence. It is also my belief that the experience of cosmic intelligence directly affects "reason" and the way we use it. When the Great Harmony is restored within us, the natural order prevails, the physical mind is devoted to the service of the primal spirit mind; and looks to it for guidance in all things. It's transformed into a well-polished reflector of cosmic intelligence. Not only that, but it then approaches everything in the pure light of the Eternal Tao; from the dispassionate standpoint of the cosmic center of the universe!

Lozen, do you happen to know which translations of the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu your quotes are taken from? And from which sections? Thanks!

Yes, that is absolutely true! Returning the intellect (i.e. physical mind) to the spirit is achieved through the practice of keeping still, according to Hexagram 52; by which a state of equilibrium is realized and intellect is subdued. This is what the Ancestors rferred to as the state of emotional clarity. Emotional clarity is a state prior to the emergence of any emotion(s). When the emotions are stirred, but remain free of excessiveness in any degree or measure, and are proportionate to the season or moment at hand, that is called emotional harmony.

Well, I do know it does not necessarily lead to unhappiness either. But for me to explain myself would require venturing quite deeply, or extensively into the teachings of the I Ching, (as expounded in the Wilhelm/Baynes version,) as well as other ancient Taoist classics. And I'm a little reluctant to do that, to be honest, for several reasons, not least of which is the teaching or warning of Hexagram 36 ( LINK ), given in the following terms:- "In a time of darkness it is essential to be cautious and reserved. One should not needlessly awaken overwhelming enmity by inconsiderate behavior. In such times one ought not to fall in with the practices of others; neither should one drag them censoriously into the light. In social intercourse one should not try to be all-knowing. One should let many things pass, without being duped." Based upon the above advice, the right thing for me to do in this situation is to just let the whole matter slide and go with the flow. Should I or should'nt I? To be perfectly honest about, there are more than a few Taobums here upon whom such an exercise would be a complete waste of time. There is no need to name names. Anyone who's been around these forums for any length of time will have some idea of who they are, and if they don't yet, they will soon. But for the sake of the few who are not entirely closed-minded, I will make a start and decide later whether or not to continue the exercise. So, for starters, I will quote two passages from the Huainan Tzu, a Taoist Classic:- 01 - "If you want to abandon learning to follow nature, this is like leaving the boat and trying to walk over the water. When a fine sword first comes out of the mold, it cannot cut or pierce until it is sharpened. When a fine mirror first comes out of the mold, it cannot reflect clearly until it is ground and polished. Learning is also a way to sharpen and polish people. Those who saying learning is useless are mistaken in their argument." ( Taoist Classics, Volume 1, p. 398 ) 02 - "Those who rely on intelligence without the Way will surely be endangered; those who employ talent unscientifically will surely be frustrated." (Taoist Classics, Volume 1, p. 376) This is essentially the viewpoint expounded throughout the pages of Wilhelm's version of the I Ching, and it is that which I hope to set forth, in some detail, to the best of my limited ability. This is not an easy task, admittedly, so please be patient. In the above two quotes, the human intellect is described as being roughly analogous to both a boat, a sword, and a mirror. Trying to follow nature without using the intellect is said, in the first instance, to be like trying to walk on water. While a few may be able to walk on water, the masses cannot. In the second instance, it is likened to trying to cut through something with a sword that has no cutting edge to it. In other words, to try and follow nature with a dull intellect is a completely useless endeavour. We have an intellect, and therefore to attain true completeness, or complete realization of human nature, requires harmonizing our intellect with the Way of Nature; but to do this requires penetration, and penetration requires a "sharp" intellect. In the third instance, intellect is likened unto a mirror that requires polishing before it can accurately reflect the mysteries of the Tao. The operative word here, of course, is "reflect". A reflection is still not It, so in this sense we can say that "intellectual knowledge" is not "reality", but merely a "reflection" of reality. Nontheless, it is still important for us to polish our mirror. In all of this we can see that the purpose of intellect is to learn how to follow the Great Way. So the role of intellect, then, is to "follow", assist, and complete something higher than itself. This something is the human spirit. This is clearly implied in Hexagram Two of Wilhelm's I Ching, which we will examine momentarily. This is also the lesson of the second quote above: "Those who rely on intelligence without the Way will surely be endangered." "Without the Way" means without our spirit mind, or intuitive mind. However, lest we think this means depending on natural instinct(s) or talent(s) alone, without intelligence, Huainan Tzu continues by saying that "those who employ talent," that is, nature, "unscientifically", or unintelligently, "will surely be frustrated." So we see, then, that the objective here is to harmonize both intuition and intellect in a properly balanced relationship. Thus, the expression "depending on intelligence without the Way," implies the necessity of harmonizing intelligence with the Tao, or training the intellect to look to intuition, or the spirit mind, for cosmic guidance. According to the teaching of Hexagram 2, the purpose of intellect is to complete intuition, and thus to assist it in the work of creation, as outlined in Hexagram 1. This means returning intellect to the spirit mind, and training it to depend or rely upon the Tao. This relationship between human intelligence and the Way is clearly expressed in the following terms of Hexagram 30 ( LINK ):- "What is dark clings to what is light and so enhances the brightness of the latter. A luminous thing giving out light must have within itself something that perseveres; otherwise it will in time burn itself out. Everything that gives light is dependent on something to which it clings, in order that it may continue to shine. "Thus the sun and moon cling to heaven, and grain, grass, and trees cling to the earth. So too the twofold clarity of the dedicated man clings to what is right and thereby can shape the world. Human life on earth is conditioned and unfree, and when man recognizes this limitation and makes himself dependent upon the harmonious and beneficent forces of the cosmos, he achieves success. The cow is the symbol of extreme docility. By cultivating in himself an attitude of compliance and voluntary dependence, man acquires clarity without sharpness and finds his place in the world." [End of Quote] According to the above teaching, then, that which is dark completes that which is light by clinging to it and thus enhancing the brightness of the latter. Whilhelm says that Hexagram 29 ( LINK ) "represents the heart, the soul locked up within the body, the principle of light (that is, reason) inclosed in the dark;" and that Hexagram 30 ( LINK ) "stands for nature in its radiance." This is Wilhelm's precise wording. In the first instance of Hex 29, human reason is described as the principle of light, imprisoned within the physical body. Thus Hexagram 30 represents the natural radiance of human reason, realized by its clinging to the primal spirit mind and "the harmonious and beneficent forces of the cosmos." Please note the above reference to the twofold clarity of the human being. This is in reference to the human duality of spirit and reason. While our spirit mind is a microcosm of the sun, reason is a microcosm of the moon. As the nature of the moon is to cling to the sun for its light, so to is it the original nature of human intellect to cling to the human spirit for its pure light; and in so doing, it completes the spirit mind just as the moon completes and enhances the sun by reflecting its light during the night. This natural radiance of human reason is again the subject of Hexagram 35 ( LINK ) where it is described in terms of our "native clarity":- THE IMAGE The sun rises over the earth: The image of PROGRESS. Thus the superior man himself Brightens his bright virtue. "The light of the sun rises over the earth is by nature clear. The higher the sun rises, the more it emerges from the dark mists, spreading the pristine purity of its rays over an ever widening area. The real nature of man is likewise originally good, but it becomes clouded by contact with earthly things and therefore needs purification before it can shine forth in its native clarity." [End of Quote] This native clarity is referring to the original pure light of reason as intimated in Hexagram 29, and its natural radiance as intimated in Hexagram 30. In the above words, the power of human reason is likened unto "the light of the sun" rising "over the earth" which "is by nature clear." But the original clarity or purity of natural reason is obscured by its clinging to the earth, that is to say, the world of the senses, rather than to the spirit mind and "the harmonious and beneficent forces of the cosmos," as described above in Hexagram 30. Thus the purification of reason or intellect is required before it can once again shine forth in its original radiance or natural brightness. This subject of purification is again broached in Hexagram 43 ( LINK ) in the following terms:- "Even a single passion still lurking in the heart has power to obscure reason. Passion and reason cannot exist side by side--therefore fight without quarter is necessary if the good is to prevail. "In a resolute struggle of the good against evil, there are, however, definite rules that must not be disregarded, if it is to succeed. First, resolution must be based on a union of strength and friendliness. Second, a compromise with evil is not possible; evil must under all circumstances be openly discredited. Nor must our own passions and shortcomings be glossed over. Third, the struggle must not be carried on directly by force. If evil is branded, it thinks of weapons, and if we do it the favor of fighting against it blow for blow, we lose in the end because thus we ourselves get entangled in hatred and passion. Therefore it is important to begin at home, to be on guard in our own persons against the faults we have branded. In this way, finding no opponent, the sharp edges of the weapons of evil becomes dulled. For the same reasons we should not combat our own faults directly. As long as we wrestle with them, they continue victorious. Finally, the best way to fight evil is to make energetic progress in the good." [End of Quote] Now, the above passage is very informative, when carefully examined. It clearly states that the originally pure light of reason is obscured by unruly passions. Thus the purification of reason requires cleansing the heart of all unruly passions. Furthermore, we can see from the above that human reason becomes evil or deviant when it follows these unruly passions, and refuses to return to the spirit mind, and voluntarily rely upon the Tao, or to follow "the harmonious and beneficent forces of the cosmos," as described in Hexagram 30. This is clearly intimated in Hexagram 2 ( LINK ), which we will now turn our attention to: "This hexagram is made up of broken lines only. The broken lines represents the dark, yielding, receptive primal power of yin. The attribute of the hexagram is devotion; its image is the earth. It is the perfect complement of THE CREATIVE--the complement, not the opposite, for the Receptive does not combat the Creative but completes it. It represents nature in contrast to spirit, earth in contrast to heaven, space as against time, the female-maternal as against the male-paternal. However, as applied to human affairs, the principle of this complementary relationship is found not only in the relation between man and woman, but also in that between prince and minister and between father and son. Indeed, even in the individual this duality appears in the coexistence of the spiritual world and the world of the senses." Before I comment on the above, I want to quote a passage from Wilhelm's First Lecture on the I Ching which helps to further clarify the above passage from Hexagram 2:- "In discussing the opposites recorded in THE BOOK OF CHANGES, we must first of all understand that they are wholly abstract. To be sure, individual images contain symbols, but behind each image we perceive and endless mirroring of refelctions. I want to give only one example for such an image: THE YIN SYMBOL. Yin may be the wife, but can also be the son; it can be the minister; and, under certain circumstances, it can be EMOTIONAL ELEMENTS AS OPPOSED TO INTELLECTUALITY. However, yin may also be the vegetative nature of our being, the anima as opposed to the animus. Inversely, it may be the masculine aspect in the woman, the aspect every woman contains within herself as a derivative. In short, it is always that element which is not primary, but somehow derived. Opposites are formed in this way." ( WILHELM'S LECTURES ON THE I CHING , pp. 5-6 ) It is very important to keep the above hermeneutic in mind when studying the various relationships set forth for us throughout all the Hexagrams; which are best studied themselves in pairs, which pattern of observation is already typified on the relationship(s) between Hexagrams 1 and 2, or Hexagrams 29 and 30. At any rate, according to the above passage from Hexagram 2, mankind is a duality of heaven and earth, or spirit and nature. Thus, we are meant to live in both "the spiritual world and the world of the senses." Earth is meant to complete heaven, not oppose or contend against it; similarly, nature (that is to say, reason and the senses) is meant to complete the human spirit. When reason turns away from following the spirit mind, and tries to lead the spirit mind, or let itself be controlled and led around by the body of the senses, which cling to the outward physical world, then it becomes productive of evil. This is clearly implied or stated in the second paragraph of Hexagram 2, and under Line 6 as well:- HEX. 2 - SECOND PARAGRAPH:- "But strictly speaking there is no real dualism here, because there is a clearly defined hierarchic relationship between the two principles. In itself of course the Receptive is just as important as the Creative, but the attribute of devotion defines the place occupied by this primal power in relation to the Creative. For the Receptive must be activated and led by the Creative; then it is productive of good. Only when it abandons this position and tries to stand as an equal side by side with the Creative, does it become evil. The result then is opposition to and struggle against the Creative, which is productive of evil to both." LINE SIX:- Dragons fight in the meadow. Their blood is black and yellow. "In the top place the dark element should yield to the light. If it attempts to maintain a position to which it is not entitled and to rule instead of serving, it draws down upon itself the anger of the strong. A struggle ensues in which it is overthrown, with injury, however, to both sides. The dragon, symbol of heaven, comes to fight the false dragon that symbolizes the inflation of the earth principle. Midnight blue is the color of heaven; yellow is the color of earth. Therefore, when black and yellow blood flow, it is a sign that in this unnatural contest both primal powers suffer injury." [End of Quote] The above words of Line 6 sould be interpreted in light of that which is expressed in the second paragraph of this Hexagram. The false dragon represents the inflated natural reason which struggles against the Creative element in man, that is to say, his spirit mind. Before we can return to our original state of purity and oneness, we must first cultivate this original duality of spirit and nature, or intuition and reason. But please observe what Wilhelm says about this duality: "Strictly speaking there is no real dualism here, because there is a clearly defined hierarchic relationship between the two principles. In itself of course the Receptive is just as important as the Creative, but the attribute of devotion defines the place occupied by this primal power in relation to the Creative." According to Wilhelm, then, or what we have here before us in Hexagram 2, the Creative power within man, that is, his spirit mind, is the primal power, and intellect is the derivative power; and the proper place of the human intellect is one of devotion to the primal spirit mind. To openly crucify the intellect, then, as opposed to subduing and returning it to its proper place within the Great Harmony of the created order, does just as much violence to the spirit mind, which it was meant to assist and complete, as to allow it to be enslaved to unruly passions and the external forces of the physical world of the senses! This process of retraining the natural reason or mind of man, so as to return it to its natural order of devotion and service to the primal spirit mind, is again broached in Hexagram 3 ( LINK ), where we read the following words: "In order to find one's place in the infinity of being, one must be able both to separate and to unite." In order to restore the natural order, we must first learn to separate our heavenly and earthly powers, which is to say, distinguish between the primal spirit and derivative power of reason or intellect. Only after this separation is successfully made can we begin to perceive the correct method of re-uniting them, or restoring or the natural order of the Great Harmony internally; which Wilhelm defines as returning to the center. As stated several times in the past, The Great Treatise of the I Ching, refers to this process as correctly centering both the intellect and will, to produce a state of emotiional harmony or clarity. This means returning them to their correct place, according to the natural order of things, as set forth in Hexagrams 1 and 2. I have posted that passage from 'The Treatise' several times in the past, so won't bother to quote it here again. But if you wish to read it for yourself, you can find it on the "garbage heap" of Cameron's recent "Free Will" thread. In Wilhelm's First Lecture on the I Ching, this practice of centering is referred to in terms of "effecting central harmony"; which is described in Hexagram 64 ( LINK ) as learning how to handle external forces properly by arriving "at the correct standpoint ourselves." THE IMAGE Fire over water: The image of the condition before transition. Thus the superior man is careful In the differentiation of things, So that each finds its place. "When fire, which by nature flames upward, is above, and water, which flows downward, is below, their effects take opposite directions and remain unrelated. If we wish to achieve an effect, we must first investigate the nature of the forces in question and ascertain their proper place. If we can bring these forces to bear in the right place, they will have the desired effect and completion will be achieved. But in order to handle external forces properly, we must above all arrive at the correct standpoint ourselves, for only from this vantage (point) can we work correctly." [End of Quote] Italics and underlining are all my doing, but please note especially the underlined words. Arriving at the correct standpoint means effecting central harmony, as I have already said. But please observe carefully that the Hexagram clearly says it is only when the center has been effectively attained, that intellect and will are able to "work correctly!" This theme of finding "the correct standpoint", that is, our true spiritual center, is further explored in Hexagram 20, but I will here forego any discussion of that until I see how the Bums react to the above. Perhaps I have merely added to the already massive garbage heap!

LINK 1 => The Works of Tom Brown Jr Oh ya, btw, his books entitled The Quest and The Journey are temporarily out of print, and so are not listed on his School's website, but used copies can be easily acquired online; and I highly recommend them! Also, check out Fred Alan Wolf's stuff as well! LINK 2 => Free MP3 Audio of Castaneda's Teachings - Scroll down for them.

I assumed nothing. The text she posted implies clearly that the great Taoist sages never acquired any amount of intellectual knowledge? I merely asked her if she believed that. Where's the assumption in that? Maybe she posted it to see if we believed that as well. Well, perhaps it might be helpful to start first by defining what the author actually means by "intellectual knowledge" rather than merely assume everyone has the same idea of what that means. The I Ching says the ancient sages were able to compose the I Ching because they were of, or had attained cosmic intelligence. Can one acquire cosmic intelligence, without any "intellectual" knowledge?

Hi there ~ Here's a suggestion, if you're into reading: pick up a copy of Tom Brown Jr's book entitled Awakening Spirits. It's about the spiritual journey of a great American Apache Medicine Man named Stalking Wolf. He was a great Native American and was deeply influenced by an enlightened Taoist master. Based on what you've shared, I believe this book will do wonders for you at this stage of your journey. You will be amazed to discover just how Taoist his views were, both before and after his contact with the old Taoist sage living in the wilderness. Peace ~ Yen Hui

Finding your way back requires consciously retracing your steps and understanding how you went from nearly becoming a Buddhist convert to becoming a complete spiritual shipwreck. Otherwise, you remain at the edge of the great abyss and are in danger of falling into it at any time again. Think hard, my friend. Where did you first derail, or deviate from the path of light and life and into the heart of darkness and death?