Lucky7Strikes

Any path that emphsizes lineage transmission or utilizes guru yoga or guru devotion etc. operates on this principle. But there is no free lunch: your ability to actualize the lineage vibration/information in yourself will be limited and must be developed with practice. Mark Griffin mentioned that the Guru (that is, a true guru who can transmit enlightenment directly) is only limited by the student's capcity to recieve; If the enlightned state was forced into a person before they were ready they would get fried.

Yeah, from what I've read, you have to be willing enough to give your entire being to the guru. Throw everything that is "you" away and be completely receptive. Not many people, especially today's society of individual thinker can do that. I know that I can't. It's very difficult to open up to someone you see as a guru that way.

Just become aware and don't identify with your body and mind, or the energies as is arises as "bliss." If your awareness is unburdened it will naturally be blissful.

the pain would be a gift.. because i am a materialistic minded person. You don't know what it'll mean to me to have proof that spirituality is real and not just placebo. I highly doubt i will feel anything at all, but if I do, i will be grateful to be so lucky. If i do feel pain, i'm confident, from what i've read, that I can train myself so that the pain will go away.

 

well, thanks for the responses everyone. I know i appear stubborn to you, but I know myself quite well. And i know my patience has a very limited reserve, there's no why i can't persevere at something for years at a time. I'll give up within a month, even if I tell myself at this moment that i won't, within a month i would have moved on to something else or just go back to a materialistic driven mindset. I need something quick and fast to fuel my fire. Even if it's not pleasurable, I want something that'll at least give me proof that my goal is reachable and not just a bunch of mystical placebo crap.

 

 

 

So i take it that shakitipat is the only known way to get quick results. Those guys live quite far away from me, i won't be able to go there anytime soon. I live in cali bay area, if anyone else has any more suggestions..

 

I really really really hope i can see some results from sahaja meditation. I'll go to one tomorrow.

Why would you drive yourself into materialistic pursuits if you know it will be a dead end anyhow?

I like your honesty. Good luck.

If you are an energy practitioner (prana/qi) coffee can really throw off your natural rhythm. It can give you a short boost, but drain you afterwards.

If you find yourself tired, just sleep. Or eat less processed food and less food that takes a lot of energy to digest like meat.

I used to drink a lot of coffee without much of a problem, but after beginning meditation/energy work I became really sensitive to how it destabilizes the body's energies. IMO you should just use it in emergency cases when you have to stay up.

My internal friend speaks of external matters, very often.

 

He says things like: "I don't know wether I am fucking her or I am being fucked by her?"

 

The diffrence is very subtle, but profound!

LOL

You are definitely fucking her!

I find sort of humorous how some make stuff exist and go on about its nonexistence rather than focus on making and cultivating the stuff to experience.

Yup.

First, if you think acceptance is passive, then you're sorely mistaken (literally it seems). Acceptance takes practice and work and it isn't achieved overnight. Second, I can't even count the number of philosophers and messiahs that have said what you've said, so it's not original, nor was it a great insight into self awareness, it's something you were taught about yourself that's not true.

Passivity can take a lot of work because a significant aspect of you is activity. Acceptance can become a very passive way of existence when the mind utilizes the concept to cope with conditions. Your second point is pretty moot. People have said lots of things, even more so of the things you wrote. I never said this is some great insight or an original thought. But what I write I write from experience. Whether you believe that or not is not up to me.

You are everything in existence. There is really no separation between you and me, except for our concept of "I", which we've been taught. You are not the passenger of a vehicle, you are are your body, just as your body is the universe. If there is a God or solution, then you are it my friend, regardless of what you want to think. You are seeking a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, only in your imagination. You've listened long enough that you believe you're on the path to some great revelation, but I've been to that revelation, dwelt there with bliss and happiness and realized it was all for naught. The truth is that the meaning that I found wasn't the meaning at all, because in the end there is no meaning to life. We think we can find solace by coming up with a definition, but very few people are capable of finding a definition to satisfy their needs. The question is whether or not we can stop seeking to define life and instead just live it.

Meaning of life? I never wrote anything about the meaning of life. You are insinuating too many ideas from an experiential insight I've had that I am sharing. I don't know what the meaning of life, or what God is.

Also I have no experience (nor do you I presume) of what you wrote about the non-separation between you and I. I can theoretically guess that might be true, but it also might not be true. So since it is not in my direct experience that this so called "I" is at one with the "world" or "you" I can't really comment on what you wrote here. But my guess is you haven't experienced these either. But they are merely ideas.

If you can live life and accept the things that happen in your life, without believing that the universe is out to get you, or that they have happened for some greater purpose, then you can get a parking ticket and say, "I parked in the wrong spot", rather than believe that karma has caught up with you. When someone you love dies you can mourn their loss, rather than wonder why "God" has taken them from you. You don't have to explain things as having some greater purpose than they do, you can accept the universe on its own terms, realizing you are the universe. Death is not to be feared, because you will live on so long as reality exists, maybe not as "I" that you believe you are, but as the ultimate reality you actually are.

 

This is not an easy or passive task, in fact it's much easier to place the onus on the supernatural, god, or some divine retribution, than it is to accept that things just happen. It's much easier to say, "If I'm a good boy, nothing bad will happen" or "Bad things happened because I was a bad boy." That's how children think and they believe this crap because they're taught it.

I never wrote about any of these things. If you simply discard all these idea you seem to have about "no supernatural" "no meaning of life" "no God" "karma" (it appears you have a set of "anti"-beliefs) or whatever and simply just see your awareness and the life energies vibrating as your being, this intesive aliveness begins to arise and it becomes clearer and clearer that it is trying to expand beyond its current limitations. The more familiar I became with this tendency, I saw that most, if not all, of my externally driven efforts arise from it. But here you are talking about all these terms, God, karma, supernatural, meaning of life, greater purpose....endless ideas!

Be done with knowledge, wipe your slate clean, and start anew and see what happens. Stop searching and let the universe come to you, then the mysteries will be revealed and you will no longer feel the need to find some higher purpose, because you will realize that every breath you breath is that purpose, every drop of water that falls is that purpose, just as every word I type is that purpose. The meaning of life is simply to live it, not find a purpose for it.

I think this is written more for yourself. But why care about the universe? Just simply discard all this and see your awareness and life energies as they are and what they are doing.

Live in contentment as a mere bodily existence...I'm telling you you will become very lukewarm, disassociated, repressed. All sorts of attachments start to happen to material things and persons. And your mind will go roaring every time small agitations come, "accept! accept! accept!"

I look far and wide for that which i dont know

But i find oneday that i lost my self

Of all the books of knowledge in my mind's endless aisle

The one about my self is not on even one shelf

When i let go off these books can i turn back to me

And then will i learn that i was already free

Nice poem. I found that at certain points, reading spiritual texts can become great hindrance instead of support.

Well that's simply because you've fallen into the trap that believes that you have a void to be filled in the first place. The void doesn't exist, it's only there because you've convinced yourself you're missing something. Stop believing there is something more and accept what is and you wont want to look for something more, you'll be content with what you have.

 

This is the truth of the matter, you can't seek happiness, only satisfaction. Happiness, like suffering, is fleeting, because it lies at the extreme of the spectrum, what we should be seeking is contentment (not even peace so much) and if we can learn to be content, then happiness and sadness won't matter so much.

 

You're fooling yourself into believing you need something else to bring you meaning and happiness, when in fact both of these things are ghosts, we can see them, but never keep them, because they are ephemeral and fleeting. Again, the key is being aware of your needs and wants, diminishing your desires, and in so doing finding acceptance with what is happening in your life. Acceptance will lead to contentment and within that contentment you wont want to feel happy anymore, because you'll have something that lasts and satisfies you.

 

Remember you don't need Buddha, Lao Tzu, Jesus, a qigong master, or anyone else to bring you satisfaction in your life. That is something you already have the capacity for, you need only understand how to achieve it.

 

Aaron

Well, first I don't feel like there's a void to be filled. I feel, no rather, I AM this nature that is yearning for inner expansion. It's a fuel synonymous with being alive. When you isolate the energy of desire from all the external things it's been attached to, and it is simply there with a pure sense of being, it is a tremendously blissful energy imploding within.

And, IMO, your stance is an example of another popular spiritual teaching that has been misunderstood: acceptance.

The type of mindset you are advocating is one of passivity that caters to a search for security, not transcendence. I think this happens when one suffers consistently from the ups and down of emotions, bodily pain, etc, he/she sees that there is problem with desiring for certain conditions so they stick to the mantra of "accept, accept, accept." IME when you do this you become very lukeworm, dull, liveliness really goes down. You end up a repressed being, and basically on a slow walk to the grave, all the while pretending this is being content. That type of contentment is a protective layer from suffering, not a genuinely spiritual life. You are really cutting off a very basic nature of yourself simply because it's not properly handled.

Acceptance as a teaching, I believe, is not so that the mind can go "accept, accept, accept" whenever a unfavorable circumstance arises, but it is to guide the seeker to see an aspect of his being that is always already in acceptance. It's a characteristic of awareness, when it is not intertwined so much in mental and bodily activities, to be completely open like space.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you've fallen into the Buddhist trap of viewing the world as an attachment that you must be rid of. This isn't the case, at least not in Taoism or most rational religions, in fact it's the opposite. In Taoism we are not taught to be rid of the world, but to diminish our desires and to understand the difference between needs and wants. If you are finding that you are not satisfied with what the world has to offer, I might suggest you need to reevaluate exactly what you need and want you want, and whether you might be confusing the two.

 

If something is making you unhappy, more often than not it's caused by desiring something you don't need. If we can learn to diminish our desires, then we can begin to diminish a lot of the pain and suffering in our lives. If we can cease to place value on things, then we will never be unhappy if we lose something. This isn't the same as ridding ourselves of material attachments, simply because we can't do this. So long as we live we'll need food, water, and air, all material attachments (clothes aren't a bad idea either). The problem is that, more often than not, we are tricked into believing that having a full belly and a safe place to sleep isn't enough, that we're missing something. We are told that the cure is pursuing God, Buddha,Tao, Allah,Money, Sex, and the list goes on, and we believe that somehow this is going to remove our dissatisfaction, when in fact it's the root cause of it.

 

Lao Tzu said "be done with knowledge" and that a good ruler "keeps his people ignorant" because he understood that the root cause of dissatisfaction is caused by our insatiable need for a solution to something that can't be solved. A child is happy, in fact very happy, even if they have no idea that God, Buddha, Allah, Sex, Money, or any of this other crap exists, why? Because a child understands the differences between needs and wants. Do they want things? Of course, but they are also more than happy to have a stick in place of a toy gun, or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in place of sirloin steak. They are not interested in material things, so much as they are in experiencing life to its fullest. When they are allowed to do this without influence, they tend to be very happy and satisfied with life.

When all your external needs have been fulfilled are you happy? Are you truly joyous in the satisfaction of your bodily needs? Maybe you are at a moment of peace. But what comes after? Boredom maybe. Restlessness.

I would speak from first hand experience that it is not enough. This isn't because someone told me about God, but it is at the very core and the very wonder of being human. Humans want much more than mere survival, there is this deep yearning to evolve, to expand, to experience, to discover. Gods, heavens, and all the tales of something beyond have been invented from this inner yearning. All perversions of greed and lust also are rooted in it. To dismiss them as a mere "wants" to be curtailed and suffering is to deny a very essential energy within you that seeks for something greater than bodily existence. I would say one should want, and want very intensely in the purest sense of desire without it being attached to material delusions. To trace that wanting back inwards and see that your awareness has this necessity to evolve.

If no external, then no internal. If no internal, then no external. both are equal, one and the same.

Are you able to feel the world as you feel your own body? Are you able to freely be with and without the body? IMO if you are not at that level yet, this popular "no inner, no outer" shouldn't be said as if it is truly in one's experience.

Are you a Buddhist? I've noticed that many Buddhists' tend to lean towards a very bleak world POV. If i'm off the mark, my apologies.

I'm not a Buddhist and what I wrote isn't a bleak world view. It's an assessment of the mind, at least my mind. There are deep rooted ideas in the mind, mostly unconscious, that external activity or success of any sorts is the solution to an inner yearning. This is reflected in the smallest choices we make, such as the constant search for entertainment. But the way is not to cut off desire or yearning. That makes you as good as dead.

The essentials of desire IME is a very basic expression of life in its efforts to expand and evolve. Needs are just to survive, but as human beings this isn't enough. Satisfaction doesn't come from being merely content. As cultivators, one's wants should be harnessed in a very powerful way but inwards. Being content shouldn't be seen as an admirable trait, but it often is because so many of us suffer due to unfulfilled desires in the external sense.

I agree with Lucky7. In the Zen parable that everyone knows that goes something like "......on the path trees and not trees and mountains are not mountains, then after enlightenment trees are trees and mountains are mountains again." The Zen path deliberately uses detaching as a cultivation method. But there are always some people who take this as not as a cultivation method but a life philosophy and say think life is meant to be rich and beautiful, and this philosophy is too stoic, must be wrong. Enjoy life to the fullest etc. Of course, that sets them back to chasing desires, or at least not understanding the simple cultivation method of detaching. The mistake is that people want the end state before the path, think how about just skip to the end where the trees are trees and mountains are mountains. Then you have people who somewhat randomly choose things to detach from, and others, make no effort, all according to some subconscious proclivities or readiness. Then you have people like Ramana who supply a method of more simple direct cultivation method, "just asking who am I" and forget about all this detaching.

 

In my years of cultivation I have found that it is important to locate the areas where you are most weak, such as "greed" for money, or "anger" etc, or need for peer esteem, etc. Work on your deepest complexes, and that's what gives the biggest progress, and you will feel it energetically, as well as in your mind.

Yes, this is what I'm really getting at. There's so much spiritual information available today people often mistake expressions of enlightenment for methods of cultivation only to fall to mind's tricks.

IMO, there is a lot of effort in Western spirituality to bridge the gap between one's external desires/attachments and spiritual endeavors. I find this to be just a cunning manipulation of spiritual teachings to justify one's impulses. You can see this when it comes to worshipping one's own body (modern versions of yoga), collecting spiritual jargon/books, irresponsible sexuality, or just irresponsible behavior under ideas (and not experiences) of popular sayings like "we are all one/God/karmic force/ruled by stars or whatever."

For a earnest seeker, there has to be a deep understanding that the yearning for wholeness and expansion we have within (this has to be identified foremost) cannot ever be satisfied with external conditions. Since today's society is constructed upon consumerism and entertainment, the purpose of which is to convince your being that ultimate satisfaction is dependent on external situations, there are so many unconscious layers I find within myself affected by a misguided search outwards, whether it be vanquishing your foes, romantic love, triumph of the ego, popularity or the few of many supposed ultimate "goals" peddled into our awareness from birth by Western culture.

I am not advocating giving up material wealth or ending sexual desires and becoming a hermit, but the right understanding has to arise that the deep dissatisfaction of the human being cannot be appeased in any way by material or mental means. A significant shift has to happen where even the smallest investment one has in the outer world is turned inwards, without it we are forever bartering between our delusions of satisfaction out there somewhere and hobbyist attitudes towards spirituality. Perhaps at a certain point, the external world simply becomes a decoration.

Well, now that you acknowledge the health benefits of qi gong, I don't understand why originally you wrote, "and there are no facts to back up the sheer magnitude of followers taoism has accumilated, to be honest it is starting to remind me of christianity and what it has been molded into." Here are more studies on health benefits and studies done on qi gong practitioners: http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/database.php

But really I think you are asking for studies of people's abilities to manipulate their inner energies to

"heal beyond modern medicine, move objects, catch them on fire, and halt gravity in its tracks."

Good luck finding subjects to study first. The only person really public about such abilities is John Chang with that Youtube video. So your best bet is to contact him so he can go through various testing facilities so that people can map out what exactly is happening within his body, and the procedures and results from those testing to be peer reviewed and reproduced by others by repeated trials.

And only then when this is published, you can start practicing. But only practicing what John Chang teaches, well, because he's been tested.

The better question to ask is, why do you need convincing for doing something that will supposedly have remarkable effects on yourself? Would you need someone to convince you that nei gong is real when your body is filled with bliss and awareness that you are neither eating or sleeping for days? Or when your bodily sensations are exceeding beyond the skin? If you are cultivating to solely perform miracles, I'd caution against studying any energy related practices. You would basically be studying for occult purposes of which you have no idea how it works or the consequences of.

IMO, the problem here is that you are untrustworthy of your own self assessment of body, mind, and energies, and so when you practice you are scared of making a fool out of yourself by doing these hokey exercise that new age baby boomers do to feel spiritual or whatever, which is completely understandable. People imagine all kinds of stupid things happening when they get a tingle of new sensation called "energy." That's why as a preliminary practice, it is urged to practice perception enhancing techniques that will quiet your mind so that you can be able to see your whole system as is without imagination and see thing happening within very tangibly like your own foot.

Qi is just a very broad term for life energy. There are varying types of qi. It isn't some mystical "force" as you understand it made up of midichloreans or some thing.

What you can do with this life energy with nei gong or internal cultivation method in terms of taoist alchemy is hardly attained by enough people for there to be some general study released (I think you are confusing facts with scientific, able to be reproduced, peer-reviewed evidence). Why would anyone doing such cultivation want to subject themselves to such tests anyway. Because they want "facts"? I never understood this type of mindset where it's almost expected for you to go into the lab if you are attaining to something beyond the norm, as if this person, experiencing tremendous changes in his own being needs a guy in a white lab coat to verify it with measurement tools. Only fools who can't distinguish between illusions of the mind and actual experience need that.

But I have no doubt internal cultivation and its effects can be measured. As a very simple yet telling example, you can look at various studies done on long time meditators and their brains. Thats an example of life energies being directed to change one's inner physiology of sorts. But really so is eating a banana and it being turned into poop.

I had similar impressions. Very down to earth and strong ties to his lineage. At times he just seems overly burdened. I did think he was too...human. Not necessarily in the good way. He didn't even seem that happy especially in the later years.

I really don't think he is as enlightened as his followers make him out to be. Or he reveals very little of the depth of what he knows. My impressions from meeting him or his students wasn't, "wow, I want to be enlightened like that." I see him more as someone carrying the mantle from his teachers, with an enormous tradition backing him.

But who knows. My field of vision is limited. He might be a truly enlightened siddha.

Duh, you can't really reach enlightenment just by wanting it

That's like the only criteria since only the ego "wants"

I'd say you can only reach enlightenment if you want everything. .

GiH's last statement is getting close to what I've been wondering about lately.

thanks for bringing back this thread.

More enlightened beings coming on here to the taobums to dispel our collective ignorance on the right and wrong teachings! Wonderful.

Long line of teachers coming down from GIH, TCO, (and me included of course), Xabir's Thusness, Everything, oh and of course all the neo-advaita teachers out there along with the new age jnana yogis...it will go on I guess, and this has always been the way spirituality has happened.

Well, I, for one, welcome Boy as another enlightened being to thetaobums, and his knowledge of mind of "God."

The ego is just a thought that distinguishes you from others that's necessary for physical interaction in the material world.

...ah forget. I'm taking a break from here.

Hey, SereneBlue (ill fitting name?),

 

Do you mean the "ENTIRE point" in general? Not really. In this video, though, he mostly seems to focus (it feels wrong to use that word when talking about this rambling joker) on how wrong it is of people to ask certain questions. And that is served along with some extreme meandering, redefining, avoidance, incongruous rhetorics, blanket statements (99%), straw man-arguments (thought is not real), stupid ideas (e.g. "live totally", "more real than real", his insane definition of lying) and sleazy, pampering and/or offensive jokes etc.

The criticisms you've listed here can be applied to anyone asserting a point to a mass audience using rhetorical language. Blanket statements are just generalizations. Of course there will be such statements when answering such a question as "purpose of life." Straw-man arguments? No one is debating him. Someone asked him a question. You can't have straw-man arguments when there is no original position to make a straw-man statement out of. "Stupid ideas, avoidance..." These aren't really objective criticisms (although you seem really hard to sound like it).

You are too focused on the language use to see the essential meaning of what he is saying. And you are not even that good at using logical criticisms against Sadhguru's language.

Also, what do you think he means when he says "live totally"? This video is part of a longer lecture, and I don't think you understand what Sadhguru means by living totally.

Have you watched any other videos of Sadhguru? If not, don't you think it is a bit rushed to conclude he is some fraud? You wouldn't even do that with a normal person you've met, would you? 10 minutes in and you suddenly know him completely.

thanks Lucky7, yes I did get the link. That started my research fest

 

But I still have not spoken to people about their own experiences with him, hence this thread

 

Are the Techniques different or similar to other schools? Any critiques? What is the most awesome thing/s?

 

Thanks.

Seth.

I have only learned one "technique" in the course, and it's the most generic one imaginable....chanting Aum! The main technique you learn is the Shambhavi Mahamudra which I haven't got to yet and has to be learned in person.

Nothing he teaches is particularly new, it's the way he goes about it that's so fresh. It's not contaminated but straight from his own experiences. He says he's had no teachers in this lifetime and no spiritual education. That's why I like it so much, the way he weaves everything together into a coherent whole without a background of spiritual grandeur.

I don't have a critique so far. Maybe that his "scientific" explanations are sometimes a bit weak, but I think he does that so people from strong western backgrounds can have a way to relate. But then again, he is better at it than most teachers I have seen.

I certainly like him so far...

 

He seems to be very Intelligent and it is weirdly relieving to see a very popular Guru who is as intelligent and thoughtful as he is.

 

He is mobilizing a massive charity movement {from what I can tell} and it sounds like his meditation processes are very strong.

 

What do people think? Anyone met him? Done his workshops?

I'm almost done with the online inner engineering, which is like a beginner's course in the Isha program. As I wrote in the other thread by Serene Blue, it's incredible. It's the most profound thing I've done since Kunlun. He clears up so much garbage for me. I'm going to go see him in October in the states when he will be teaching a course.

Aren't you in Australia? He' going to be teaching there soon. I posted a link in another thread as a reply to your post, but wasn't sure if you got it. http://australia.innerengineering.com/

His life story is also extensive, especially his past life stories, his interaction with disembodied beings, the dhyanyalinga. I don't remember ever being so excited about a teacher, including the ones I have read.

Please describe your experience in great detail, demonstrating clearly when the brain is not involved...

 

and as great claims require great evidence, you should volunteer to be scanned, while 'willing'... That should be very interesting...

I didn't say the brain isn't involved. Just that the will does not belong to it. My body has a will, doesn't it? When someone pinches you and you have a response, you have a reaction. But if you are present in the moment you can see the situation clearly and respond with a conscious will. For instance you can just feel the pinch without a resultant categorization of it as pain as most people would. That's an immediate and not a preconceived process. If our will was preconceived within the brain all the time, we would not have adequate means to respond to immediate changes in our environment which happen frequently. This is just a logical example.

In experience, when you no longer identify with thoughts which are mostly localized in the brain, you realize your head activity can be experienced not as you, but within you. I'd say this is one way to argue that consciousness is not generated from the brain. When this steeping outside happens, I am aware of everything as a whole, including my surroundings as if there is no boundary. It's like I stepped out of a moving vehicle and now I see its pathway totally from above without division between sceneries i would've seen had I been inside the car.

The less you identify with any-thing, the more expansive the view becomes. I feel very present and at the same time I feel like there is no I existing in the picture. Again, I'm just sharing an experience. But here I also feel very potent. Like I can really act. And when I act in a very clear states of being, it doesn't feel like I am choosing between possible pathways, but rather creating something entirely new from this immediate world I am aware of. There's an obvious correlation between how unconditioned this act is and how present I am within the moment.