Lucky7Strikes

Yo.

 

I said my opinion, in bold.

Why would you make unqualified opinions on...

anything...

Edit: I think opinions are great..they lead to good discussions on our beliefs. But here we're talking about a teaching and a method taught, so it's not really an "opinion" to say GF and RP are the same. Because they are not taught that way.

what is this transmission that i need? o.O

What do you mean what is it?

Spirituality as traditions always emphasize transmissions so you get initiated into the lineage. It isn't just about the techniques.

Gold flower will accomplish red phoenix. When you practice these things, you're giving yourself transmission.

 

The books were technically made so that people who are never able to see Max could achieve something.

 

Be careful with the tongue positioning...I personally stick to the fire point, since my focus with all of this stuff is more on self healing.

 

Just my unqualified opinion...I know Max says that the students must see him in order to attain Gold Dragon Body. I'm skeptical, and think it could be done with just a basic knowledge of the practices.

Uh no, Red Phoenix is not Golden Flower....yes they're related, but you don't give yourself transmission...

Max never said those things so I don't know where you got this information. Red Phoenix is taught by approved facilitators for a reason, so you don't have to go see Max, but at least learn it from a teacher. Golden Dragon Body isn't dependent on Kunlun...it's in many traditions in the world. Kunlun is just one method to get there.

so there isn't really a point in getting the old books?

 

Also is there stuff i can absolutely only learn at a seminar? as i said before, this is completely out of the question for me.

Unfortunately, yes, somethings are only taught at the seminar or with an approved facilitator. Red Phoenix is a main example because you need the transmission. However! Practicing the K1 posture itself will lead to your energy body totally opening up. I didn't even practice Red Phoenix for the first year or two because for you to really understand the practices, the energy body has to open up. So if I were you I'd just focus on the practices in the book because that's what you'd be doing anyway after a seminar and then hopefully wait for a chance in the future to meet a facilitator.

Hi Lucky7strikes,

 

Thank you for sharing. Is the energy flow 24/7 or only with practices? Do you feel different types of energy?

 

Also, when you were with/experienced Sadguru... Did it feel like you were in a "bubble" of him (or possibly like he came into you at a cellular level)?

 

 

(edit - added a question)

The energy flow is completely dependent on the mindset. Non grasping and not identifying with your body and mind leads to a smooth flow. I practice Kunlun, which is a downward path and when experientially the mind at the head level begins to sink into the heart you begin to interact things is a very fluid manner...very much in harmony with the energies of your surroundings. Especially with other people. I'm not sure if you are familiar with Kunlun, but Max's mantra is to live the art, and I'm just now understanding that (haha! after like 4 years!)

But when I practice the current becomes intense and a lot of purging happens. For me much blocked emotional content tends to come out, crying, screaming, and just letting whatever you held within you simply flow out. This is, as I see it, the approach to nondual energy states...hopefully leading to the point where my energies are clearly seen to be interconnected with everything around me. That hasn't happened yet to its full extent...still a lot of letting go to do.

I'm not sure what you mean by types of energies, but I do feel my body's energy shift usually from constricted and unbalanced states to just being without any obstacles..like I'm just floating in my surroundings. I try not to associate any of my energetic states to outside influences. I think then the blame game begins. It's usually things within me being dug out. I only recently feel comfortable opening up energetically to people who'd like to do energy work on me, and really I'd only let someone who knows what their doing do that (hint: Max, Diana). Those experiences I'd rather keep to myself, because it would just create expectations for people (I really want people to experience it for themselves without any stories getting in the way). But it's nothing fancy like spirits or demons....just very mundane yet powerful emotions and habits within you expressing themselves. But when it's all calm, usually my body is running a cool, but excited current (like I'm kid about to go into a toy store), I guess that's why they often call it the cool fire.

In context of Sadhguru...just being near him your body and awareness feel as if they are being soaked with "awareness-juice". Not on a sensation level, but at a deeper, existential level. But it's not just him, the people of Isha and the way they conduct things create a certain atmosphere where you are not associating with the nonsense happening in your head but very intensely becoming aware of yourself not as an individual, but this vibrating life not different from the trees, insets, animals, the earth...It's a very devoted atmosphere there towards one another, not just Sadhguru. It crushes your silly-self.

However, during my direct experiences, it was JUST ME It's not like I felt Sadhguru entering me or whatever. It was just me being in that atmosphere without distractions searching within. If there is enough intention, I believe that can be created anywhere. Those moments were when the past three four years of practice culminated into the realizations I described above. Please don't think it was Sadhguru who somehow gave me these experiences. He was just there to nudge me and be a guardian to keep out the nonsense outside of spiritual work.

I just want to be at peace. I don't want to see other people go wrong just so that I can point out how the tables have turned. Being a virgin at 20 is not really the issue although I would like that to change, the problem is identifying with the self image of an outcast my mind has adopted as a result of bad experiences. I am getting on with my life the last year have been better than ages 15-19; I talk more, smile more, but still feel nothing has changed internally, im the same scared teenager.

 

Thanks

Hey BlueMonk!

Try to find root in who you are. Don't listen to what society or your peers demand of you. Tell everyone you are a virgin and laugh about it (ok, maybe that can be a bit too much, but you see the point). There's so much um..what's the word...stigma? Or expectations placed on men today to all be these sexually oriented animals. I used to want to bang every hot women I saw because that's the way this advertisement generation is molded to think about beauty. Not true at all! Sex is usually pretty gross anyway and you'd be severely disappointed if you don't really connect with your partner. Especially after you ejaculate.

People are different. The trick is to examine within yourself and see what is society's garbage and what your body and energies are saying. You'd be surprised that it doesn't always want hundreds of women! Your emotions definitely wouldn't want that. So see what your needs and desires are as a human being unencumbered by your peers and social norms.

When sexuality is cherished, it can be a beautiful things you share with one other individual. You can have just one woman your entire lifetime, and if she is right for you, I'd think that's an infinitely richer sexual experience than having thousands of women but only in flesh. So stay a virgin if that's the natural path for you! If you are truly established in who you are, people around you begin to naturally respect your choices.

You already seem very highly self aware. That's great! Learn how to meditate man, and ask away here about practices.

I was once roommates with a pimp kinda dude. He had a different girl every weekend, whereas I barely saw two girls the entire semester and was still a virgin. We butted heads and I got a new roommate, who wasn't such a jerk (and didn't throw bars of soap at my head when I snored...jeez).

 

...but later on I asked him how he got with so many girls. He took the time to really try to help me with his advice, which he at one point needed himself. He learned it from some other people when he needed help with it...so you may want to ask your housemates for tips on how to man up. Join the man club. It's not so bad. It's good to have friends and work on developing yourself, and being successful.

 

Not trying to convince you to give up your character...you always have free will, and your own moral compass.

 

AND ALWAYS USE PROTECTION. ALWAYS.

 

...

 

One of the things the pimp dude did, even though he was already getting girls...he spent a lot of time caring about the gym and nutrition. Exercise will boost your confidence! Being lean and muscular will go a long way towards getting respect. And imagine if you looked something like this:

 

 

Your self esteem issues would hardly even matter. In that case, the shyness would be totally "cute" rather than something to avoid.

Hahaha! Last place I thought I'd see Matthew Macanughy pic...on thetaobums...

Hey!, even I was a virgin once. No shame. (But sex is more fun.)

LOL. MARBLEHEAD...NOT HELPING>>>>

I want to clarify that I don't mean to say everyone's experiences should be like mine. No not at all. People all hold to different truths and beliefs within them, and how they release will be dependent on that. But I do believe it is not a gentle experience as people seem to believe meditation is supposed to be. For me it was a literally mind shattering experience, and by far the most intense moments of my life.

Yes, Sensai.

 

Would you please share with us your direct experiences with emptiness?

Haha! Sensei! Far from it...veeerrryy far from it...but I know the difference between what is direct and what is indirect. For a long time I was a indirect practitioner. I am very familiar with the words and concepts people use especially from Buddhist lingo in the most cunning ways...because haha! I've been the most guilty of them all! This is my experience of anatta, or emptiness of self.

When I was doing intense practice, I realized first that despite all the knowledge I had gathered about "myself" I really did not know who I was at all. I then realized I didn't even know what the hell "knowing" was. Digging deeper and deeper I clearly saw that there was no one there at all that there was merely a boundary around nothing making it seem like there was. At that moment something within my energy body clicked open as if a knot that had been there to hold onto a boundary between itself and the rest of the world just let go instantaneously. I lost all sense of self will, and a tremendous sadness and pain started rushing from all parts of my body. I cried as if it were my own funeral!

Then the sudden absolute clarity of hilarity overcame everything, like my entire life of suffering was a very stupid joke! I don't know for how long but I danced in this stupendous feeling of ecstasy and freedom! One could do absolutely no wrong! My personality was seen to be a clear concoction of the mind, and no independent "thing" was found anywhere at all, even in other people. There's a great Zen poem on this about this Korean monk who rushed immediately out of his meditation hall and sang "who will I tell it to? there's no one here, there's no one here..." Like my signature says, it was a moment of a thousand petals entering an empty house, the entire world seemed blissful naturally, every step felt like a liberation of life, the sound of the herder's flute, and not of a human being.

But my deeper understandings came later when I saw that my old habits based on notions around the ego were still very much there or began re emerging after the peak experience, like the branches of a tree still there after the roots had been cut. If you read Hakuin's Kensho: Four Ways of Knowing, he puts in perfectly when he says that just because the sun has begun to rise, don't expect the snow to instantly melt. The snow was still there, and more than that, I saw that there are deeper inter-connected levels of blockages affected by years of living under the idea of a self entity within my energies, mind, and body. My energy practices after this took on a whole another dimension. I finally understood just a little bit (finally! like I was learning to baby step after witnessing people run marathons ) about what my Kunlun practice was there to do. Energy practices aren't to build energy, but rather to melt into that potential, that sea of energy always around us and within us but we feel separated from. Everything that I had been doing just took on a whole another direction. You may not see it from these posts, but I felt very humbled by all this. I felt like a miniature insect in a endless jungle that is the vast universe.

P.S.

Around 2 years ago, I also had days of tremendous awareness experiences where my consciousness began experiencing another level of being awake, like I was shown that our normal everyday consciousness was actually half sleeping compared to this. I was awake during sleep, and couldn't really eat anything. Just a lot of water and laughter. It was another dimension of awakefulness than beyond mere bodily senses. The comedown from that was not pleasant due to my lack of understanding and immaturity. Then it was 2 years of struggling in my own filth.

Hence when I'm questioning Nikolai's statement on realizing that the outer world is a complete illusion, which is a realization one should ultimately arrive at (likely in degrees...to the point where it becomes certain that it is like a magical dream and never existent) according to Buddhism and even modern science, certain signs of your realization should manifest in shifts in consciousness and energy. It shouldn't be a mundane thing at all (too many people, having had no such break through fall into the ever popular zen saying, carry water, chop wood. Those are grounding practices that you do in these states to keep rooted on earth). The mundane should be shattered. I suspect it will be much more vibrant and incisive than seeing the emptiness of self since the physical world has a much stronger anchor than the personality. You can change personalities easily and observe the shifting of the ego. But to take the roots of the physical dimension out, it would require a level of energy the body is normally unaccustomed to.

There are 3 books. 2 are outdated so get the new one. The book is good. I suggest you practice from it to prepare for an actual seminar.

The standing postures can also be done sitting (the 5 elements) if you have a bad back or bad knees. Level 2-3 are no longer necessary

The result of the practice is dissolution of the physical body into a pure energetic state, called the Golden Dragon Body. But that's just words.

This isn't a practice where you take level 1, 2, 3 then bam! you are there. It's an art. Think about it as learning how to paint. Does taking painting classes 1, 2, 3 make you a great painter? Nope. But it sure can help.

7strikes

 

 

 

My mind doesn't say it. What I said about just drinking water was a message to you designed to communicate the reality of any given reality.

 

 

 

I have directly realised the illusions of the physical world. I have therefore directly realised the illusion of my body. The notion that the body is an 'entity with needs' is nothing more than an opinion, and always was. I drink water. All these notions about survival are illusions.

It's not important whether or not you mind says it consciously. Our minds often don't say things consciously but act from deeper layers within.

Share with us the difference between a direct realization of the illusions of the physical world and an indirect realization of the illusions of the physical world.

And by the way, that the body is an entity with needs is NOT an opinion if you have not experienced beyond ordinary physical senses to see clearly that the body is an illusion, and to understand the mechanisms and causes of the illusion of the body having arisen. No matter how ultimately true the fact that the body is an illusion may be, for you it is still the truth that the body is there as a fully functioning living organism. No matter what you believe, this is in your direct knowing that you have a body and it has a presence within a physical realm. This is again, NOT an opinion if you are not freely able to navigate the illusion as illusion. Do not make fairy tales out of this. Be straight with your condition.

It is however another thing to slow apply the understanding that the world is an illusion to your practice until direct realization is had.

Yes to that, and through the illusion of the mental realm too as it happens. As to my stature, all I know is that I'm now in a position to talk about it. For years and years I simply wasn't.

 

 

 

I don't even know what you are talking about. For me, all experience is beyond the body. If you want me to tell you something extraordinary then I can't. My life is quite normal, although my thread on the law of attraction comes from experience.

 

Best wishes

If you have yet to experience reality beyond the senses you have not seen directly the illusions of the physical realm. Please be straight with yourself. You can have a very thorough understanding that the world is an illusion, but this does not necessary mean you've had a direct experience, an unshakeable knowing of the world's illusory nature.

It seems that you have understood emptiness but have not yet seen the depths to which it can perpetuate your being. To be lost here in saying, "there is not even a being to penetrate" then you have gotten stuck on the surface ideology of emptiness, whereupon you are only applying that understanding to surface experience.

There are great many layers to a person. The body, the energies, the emotions...to dismiss them because of the small glimpse of emptiness and the idea of emptiness is to be given a key to a tremendous treasure underneath you, but believing that the key itself is the treasure. True meditation can perhaps be said to happen only when one has a slight understanding of emptiness. One should extend their efforts even more at such a stage.

Whether it's escaping or stuck there, from what I've learned that's not good, especially if you are beginning to get headaches. It means too much energy in the head. You should always bring it down to the lower dan tien and walk around nature a lot to ground.

I remember your troubles with sexual alchemy earlier and a lot of instability. I don't know where you live, but make it a habit to just walk around a lot of nature, better if you are barefoot. Don't listen to music or anything, just be with the grass, trees, the sky, kind of melt back into the earth.

Also, when you are doing any internal cultivation like raising your sexual energy you must must must have the tongue at the roof of the mouth. For circulating mco, put it behind the teeth. When that circulation is not there the energy kind of sits at the head and stagnates, which is very bad.

Go with your feeling all the way. Crash and burn. Then laugh it all off!

Your hormones are fun to play around with!

Tony Parsons doesn't know a fig!!!!!!!!

That's probably what he'd say too.

Fair enough. But your behaviour should have shown the bliss that you had achieved, shoudn't it have?

Yeah! And luckily a lot of people responded positively. But there are still many people who cannot see anything besides their mind's analysis. And when they read any posts validating that nonsense, no matter how ridiculous they may be, they cling to it! Weren't you hear for the whole Kunlun fiasco on thetaobums?

I bought "The Crystal and the Way of Light" back in Sept, 2011. I'm trying to find "The Crystal Cave" nowadays. "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" is pretty good too.

 

My point was that you said Dzogchen is not a practice and I am pointing out that it is definately a practice, a series of practices. Once one realizes rigpa, the goal is to remain in it 24/7. That is some practice. It is not "doing nothing" as you said. Nor is it the futility of practice that Tony Parsons says.

 

What's the matter? Can't stand peace or silence? Sometimes it speaks louder than words.

It's just a matter of words. But the 24/7 practice should become effortless. You like Xabir's stuff don't you? 24/7 practice means there is no conscious act of practicing since you no longer see duality of a doer and the deed done. Every action is self liberating and total and effortless. Hence the term "no practice and no method" can seem more fitting.

Peace and silence? Psh! I'm silent when I'm silent, and LOUD AS I WANT TO BE WHEN I WANT!

Hi Lucky

Don't get all confused now.. My feelings were not hurt. I have no interest in being insulted. I detected an abusive attitude in your posts/insults. Especially in the PM that you sent me.. remember?

 

You titled it "HEY YOU!"

You say the posts were abusive. Abusive! A bit of a drama queen you are! No one's here to abuse anyone here. Despite the language I use I know almost everyone here are genuine seekers.

I thought there were forum rules about insulting people.. Are you in danger of being banned here? Hey, if I could I'd insult you too! It's fun! It creates energy which, when dissolved by direct attention, produces great bliss.

Lol! Are you sure your feelings were not hurt? Banning people! Haha!

Yeah go ahead! Insult me! It has nothing to do with bliss, sure that may be the sensation of it, but its good to push one another and not have a filter in between discussions. I know that you are holding a lot back in these posts, and you really shouldn't! Speak your mind freely. Don't worry I won't ask anyone to be banned.

And what a contradiction that is. Did you actually study his teachings? Sadguru is shouting and selling "bliss, bliss, bliss" himself.

Have a look at this video.

 

In it, the Sadguru is saying that you have to enhance your perception with bliss from the pineal gland in order to have something more happen. He himself is pushing bliss. So, it is clear you don't understand what he is selling.

Ah, you don't understand the difference between sensational bliss and true bliss that comes from realization. One is fleeting, the other, is realizing something very natural within. Spirituality is supposed to be blissful! But if that becomes a goal for the ego, then it becomes trouble. It becomes like a drug, and the seeker becomes more entrenched in craving.

Don't try to analyze so much about the words Sadhguru is saying, but the meanings and the contexts of them. Don't you see how he is trying to relate the bliss of spirituality to the mundane person's search for it in daily activities like drinking and drugs? As Max would say, too much in the head, not enough in the heart.

This is no doubt, how to add something to you, which is contrary to most teachings, including Dzogchen, which strip off the layers of the onion (or settle them down until they become transparent).

And then, after all you've supported the maxim that it is wrong to heal anyone, in this next video, Sadguru is saying that sambhavi will activate the expression of your bliss body and that it will heal all your ailments!

 

But he never tells you how. You have to buy that...

 

 

It's a very bad sign when there is no consistency in the teachings. And, selling sambhavi as a healing tool that performs miracles is quite a sales pitch, isn't it?

Self healing is different from healing another person. These are very obvious points Tibetan Ice...I'm scratching my head really...

Note: I have been performing sambhavi during my twice daily meditations for 5 years now. Every day. So I am very familiar with the practice, and the light, and the bliss, and the visions, and the kundalini... First time I hear that it heals all your ailments though..

Perhaps the context in which you learned the practice is different. This is also a very obvious point for spirituality practices. The teaching isn't just about the technique, of how long you hold the breath or what type of posture you are in.

Sorry, didn't you say that Max was breeding a bevy of bliss bunnies with kunlun? Perhaps that's not how you meant it but it appeared to me to discredit Max and his Kunlun.

No. I clearly didn't. You are misunderstanding everything and not seeing things clearly. It was very clear what I wrote. It's been a very acknowledge problem with certain kunlun practitioners that they just become attached to the sensation of bliss like a drug. Max wrote about this several times on the forum when it was running, and I believe he mentioned it on the primordialalchemist blog a few times. It's not about the technique but the mindset, just like the Shambhavi. Two teachers can teach the same technique with an entirely different context to them, and they will be different practices as a result. The Shambhavi Sadhguru teaches comes with very carefully planned ways of shifting the mind's way of perception.

It's a funny world that we live in. If you kill someone, you go to jail. If you kill someone in war-time, you become a hero. So you see, you can be both at the same time. It's all a matter of perception.

However, if it is true that he kept the death of his wife secret for nearly a year before he told her family, that is borderline psycho.

You totally missed the point of my example.

What does it matter how long he kept the death of his wife from her family when she has severed herself from her body identity completely? Family is a physical relationship. Her true family is her fellow seekers. And didn't you read my reply? There were many people there during her time of passing and the father-in-law just filed unfounded police investigation all of them that came to nothing.

So how much has it cost you to take part in the Isha initiative?

Very reasonable! A four day retreat I'm attending this weekend is only 400 dollars and they give you food, beds, even towels!

You know, you may have spent a few hours writing your abusive responses, but I also spent 3 or 4 hours watching Sadguru's youtube videos. I was happy in the fact that you had found the true guru, that which is inside of everyone. I was not happy to meet Sadguru and his sales pitches, stupid stories and underhanded marketing techniques.

 

But really, who cares? Who cares if you gain bliss from an authentic guru, a charlatan, an avatar or by placebo? Isn't the realization what counts, not the source?

Sadhguru disturbs you doesn't he? But I bet he still draws you in very much. That's why you watched hours of his videos and you mind made all the nonsense to counter whatever he is saying. That's great! It's a sign that you have encountered someone who you can truly learn from. If a teacher only appeases you, then he is just catering towards your current preferences. No true growth can happen in such relationships. Only when you are threatened but at once drawn, you know he or she is the right teacher for you.

Hi 7 strikes

 

 

 

I said my body had no survival needs, I did not say that I do not drink water or look both ways when I cross the road.

 

Do you understand the difference?

 

When I drink water I drink water. All this talk about doing it in order to survive is a fiction in your own head. It's a story you 100% believe in.

 

You have not seen emptiness yet, although your recognition of good emptiness teachers like Tony Parsons means that you soon will. You know it deep inside but its not fully conscious so you can't yet put it into words. Maybe we can talk some more later.

 

best wishes

You certainly have never been hungry or thirsty enough. Your mind saying: in drinking, just drinking water, walking just walking, and all phenomena are empty is actually much more of a fictional story than your body's survival needs. This is the totally delusional understanding of arm chair Buddhists!

Your body's needs are much more concrete than your ideas and it is very intelligent in its own way. If you practice energy practices or are aware of your body's mechanics, you will see that its reality is much more than what you may have happening in your mind. Your mind on the surface may not say to you "Im drinking water to survive." Of course not! It's very much molded into it from generations and generations! Until your body realizes directly the illusions of the physical world, you have no right to claim that its needs are a fiction. But have you? Have you seen through totally the illusions of the material realm? Be straight with yourself. Because if you have, you are a bodhisattva of a certain stature.

Having a physical body and knowing none other than the physical means that you are very much entrenched in its mechanisms for survival. If you have gone beyond that, I'd be very much interested in your direct experiences beyond the body. But I'm telling you, a good idea to test is just cut yourself a bit, or burn yourself, see what sentiments arise.

There are two kinds of destiny, absolute and obscure.

 

Absolute destiny defines your main parameters, your spouse, your children, your parents are all set up before encarnation so one has no control over it

 

Obscure destiny is the destiny that will be shaped by the actions of that person that she or he performs by her/his free will.

 

If you say that life is like a chess board, absolute destiny sets the boundaries of the board and the rules while playing the chess pieces. For instance, you can not play the knight like a bishop, there are certain limitations, this is absolute destiny.

 

However, you are free to make your move within the chess game obeying the rules. This is obscure destiny.

And what makes you the expert here? Do you know this for certain? Or did you figure out this by thinking about it?

No, not actually. Although you can explain the body's behaviour in that way.

 

Actually this is another problem with Parsons that we haven't discussed yet. He has a tendency to be materialisitc, that is, he roots his explanations for, say, the sense of separation in brain processes that started in infancy.

 

And yet wisdom is seeing that the body too is empty and that there is no way that you can suggest that separation (or oneness) are things happening in the brain. Actually you don't need to meditate to understand this - a course in Kantian philosophy will deconstruct such notions until you are at least sceptical! Wisdom will later supply you with the truth!

No survival needs! Ok. Go about two days without water and see if telling yourself the body is empty quenches your thirst. Or how about a week fast? Or let me take a knife and cut you up a bit see how you react!

Empty empty empty! Ok, so cross the road with your eyes closed now since the road, the car, you are all empty! Ooooo, but wait a second, you still look left and right!

You are exactly like that student who came up to the master's saying "I see now! Everything is empty!" and the master just threw an ashtray at his head. Pooping out of the head is what your doing, just seeing things and observing their emptiness is far from what Parsons is talking about here.

Hi Lucky7strikes,

 

 

 

With the insight into emptiness comes the insight that the ego is and always was empty. There was no physical animal, no surviving and no notion of living. Your spirituality does not break it down because there is and never was anything to break down.

 

The ego is an emptiness that must be accepted along with all empty things. You can't reject it because its one of the many empty things that come your way. It is the same as what was once conceived as the 'spiritual self'. The self and the Self are 100% identical. They are both of the same nature - empty.

 

Your sense of an embodied personality still arises...and then passes. It is 100% REAL while it is with you but you know that it will also pass because it also empty. Is the ego then real or empty? Both? Neither? actually the very notions of existence and non-existence are inadequate here. All you can do is take what comes. If it is NOW it is real but shall instantly pass into emptiness.

 

If you get this then you are ready to accept the ego when it makes an appearance. It doesn't trouble you because you know and feel that it will pass. Your whole being is in a relaxed uninvolved state. You no longer believe in the ego's independent reality, but you accept its reality when, and only when, it is your reality. You can love it and understand it, but you don't have to anxiously worry about it's welfare, or it's negative effect on your spiritual self.

 

I don't wish to make you angry because I've really enjoyed what you write while I was a lurker. But I thought I'd better at least attempt an explanation of what I mean.

 

Nikolai

Yes Niklai! I'm very angry!

Lol. We're just having a spirited discussion here.

Now as for this statement: "There was no physical animal, no surviving and no notion of living."...so do you not experience the physical body anymore? Doesn't your body have survival needs? The body as long as it is present as a separate existence in your experience has its survival mechanisms. If its hungry, it will need to eat for itself no matter how much your mind goes "no ego!" If someone cuts you, the body will tell you that it is in pain so to preserve itself.

It seems like you have misunderstood Buddhist emptiness as a method or sorts, or things "passing into emptiness," isn't how emptiness is used in Buddhism. Rising and falling are only at the initial states of observation, and is not a realization of non-self or emptiness. For more about this visit Xabir's site: awakeningtoreality at blogspot (google it!).

You understand the philosophies but don't know how to apply it correctly. Just going "everything is empty" and perceiving reality in that light is not realization. You shouldn't be in a relaxed and uninvolved state. That is a sign that you've misunderstood the teachings. You should be in a fully involved state instead.

Anyway I think all that you wrote above is just needless mind analysis. It's poopy poop. Not a direct understanding of someone like Parsons.

Hi Lucky7Strikes,

When I responded to your Sadhguru post, you insulted me, investigated my history, attacked Buddhism, attacked Max and was generally quite disrespectful.

 

I have no interest in being insulted, nor do I have any interest in spending hours and hours debating, destroying egos or supporting egos. You presented a guru, I examined him and gave my opinion and discoveries.

 

For every thesis there is an equal and opposite. Antithesis. These two combine to produce another thesis. It is endless. It's a mind game.

 

I am more interested in how the true guru you have found has turned your life around and changed your character.. Do you control your mind or does it control you? I'm really routing for you.

What? I'm quite baffled by this response.

1. I insulted you with reason. I laid out clearly why the examples you chose to paint Sadhguru as some sort of murderer, con artist, and mind manipulator were in very poor taste. I refuted each chosen example. You began with all the insulting bullshit and then try to skip out on all the crap you laid out and now your feelings are hurt! Take accountability for your actions!

2. I don't care about your history. You do have a tendency to all the time go "bliss bliss bliss." And you admitted it yourself didn't you? So I was just writing on that basis.

3. What are you talking about? I never insulted Max. I love Max. In fact I'm gonna go see him tomorrow!

4. Every thesis there's an anti thesis! Ha! What? So if you call someone a murderer and this other person proves him innocent, I guess he is now both a murderer and a innocent man? What kind of logic is that? There are baseless claims and evidence, leading to what the actuality is.

5. Ohhhh you are interested in my personal experience! That's great! Because that thread on Sadhguru was exactly that! On my personal experience with Sadhguru! Until you came up with a very huge copy and paste list of ridiculous accusations against him. Thanks for caring so much about what I experienced!

6. I picked your post on that thread apart for a good reason, so that people don't take all the nonsense you copied and pasted with any sense of seriousness.

7. As for Dzogchen, the base, path, and fruit are one (I can quote this from Chogyal Namkai Norbu's book, but since you like quoting entire books, I'll just give you the name of it "The Crystal and the Way of Light"). Those methods you listed are so that the seeker gets introduced to the natural state. Only when you've been introduced to that state can you be considered a practitioner of Dzogchen. Dzogchen is known to be a non gradual path, where upon all experiences are seen as self liberating. Tony Parsons is much closer to that than whatever concentrative exercise you may be doing. Anyway, I wrote that because you mentioned natural state. Natural state isn't about concentrating, or fixating the mind on stillness...that wouldn't be so natural would it?

P.S. Maybe you should stop smoking. Why are you so sensitive? Just reply reasonably on the topic instead of feeling oh so hurt.

So I went back to the thread to see how it panned out. Well in reply to my original post this is what you wrote after finding problems with Sadhguru's exposition on healing:

"I find the Sadhguru's precepts disturbing, and misplaced. He seems to be a good actor and have a handle on how to entertain and influence people. But he lacks the sincerity and respect for other traditions that I would expect from someone in his position."

(And here you are all poo poo because you think I insulted you.) To which I replied with a very reasoned response on what Sadhguru means when telling healers not to meddle with life. To which you....

Oh, that's right...didn't reply, but put out that stupid list of accusations. To which I again replied with a reasoned criticism of why your sources are absolutely unreliable. To which you...

Oh, that's right...didn't reply again. And now you are here saying you were upset because I insulted you. Ha! What nonsense!

The Tao/Buddha/Jesus said in order to gain 100% control you have to loose 100% control first.

 

Sadghuru said " If you have mastery over your physical body, 10 to 15 percent of your life and destiny is under your control. If you have sufficient mastery over your mind, 40 to 60 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control. If you have complete mastery over your life energies, 100 percent of your life and destiny will be under your control."

 

It's a different path.

What exactly is your complaint?

At first you were talking about how Sadhguru sounds like a control freak. Then here you are talking about gaining 100% control according to the Tao (btw, who is this Tao anyway, I haven't heard of this guy which is surprising since you put him/her on par with the Buddha and Jesus), the Buddha, or Jesus.

On what basis do you call the paths different? Are you aware of what Sadhguru teaches in order to attain this "mastery"? What if it is indeed to, as you put it, "lose control." Then wouldn't he be just saying the same thing as what you think the Buddha, Jesus, or this Tao guy said?

You seem to very much like someone who only likes teachings if they are two thousand years old! What if there are true masters in this day and age! Whoa! Shocking! Does he/she have to be dead for 2000 years for you to see they are genuine? You're quite silly consistently going on about the Buddha/Lao Zi/Jesus as if you fully understand they're teachings or as if they were this exclusive "the only enlightened beings" club. That's like only liking pop songs. There are other good artists out there putting out great music!

This is actually what I alluded to in the post a few back. Once you have been through emptiness and been able to reconcile it with your life as an individual the two states start to merge together. The ego is still very much in existence but it has been dealt such a blow that it becomes all loose and airy. Emptiness doesn't kill the ego but it does transform it. The ego then becomes an incredibly effective vehicle for the expression of emptiness. Almost any words will work as teachings for a person who has seen the truth, in fcat he wouldn't have to speak at all.

 

The irony is, Tony Parsons acknowledges that all this happens. He says that the personality becomes richer and more rounded through the lifting of energetic constriction. He is speaking honestly, from experience - and good for him.. But he hasn't found a way of accounting for it in his 'self is an illusion' doctrine, and so in other contexts he finds himself saying that the self is an illusion and to talk of transformation makes no sense.

 

For me, when my insight into emptiness and form really started to merge I realised that the ego is and always was a fruit of spiritual development - in a way the first fruit. I realised that all my traits as an ego were just preparations for ways of being beyond the ego. The ego is a triumph of spiritual development. The laws of time, space and individuality aren't entirely real, but they are magnificent metaphors for what comes later. Very simple skills and understanding that we take no notice of are actually identical in essence to the huge stuff that comes later.

 

When we wish to transcend the ego, when we are seekers, we have a tendency to demonise it. This is all necessary and well, but when we finally have transcended it we can look back and recognise that all the sufferings of the egoic life had deep meaning and purpose. We love and respect our ego and we acknowledge and endorse the traces of it that are still with us

 

Once you have transcended the ego you haven't left it behind .Your life in time and space is still available to you as and when you choose - but all the neurosis and the suffering is gone because it has served its purpose.

 

I do understand why Tony Parsons calls the ego an illusion. To see emptiness is to realise that the ego isn't true how we once thought. But at the same time, I wouldn't want anyone to deny the ego outright. The ego is a beautiful achievement that shall develop with you infintely if you let it and stop trying to deny it.

 

The peace and tranquility that you saw in your teacher were a direct consequence of his former sufferings as an ego. There is a link between then and now, that is why.

Ok. No...this isn't an explanation of direct experience. This is mental masturbation. You haven't transcended anything but the poop mountain you built on spiritual philosophies in your head.

Egoic life has no deep meaning or purpose. This is a big flag that tells me you are full of shit. Egoic life is a life of nonsense. Nonsense. It's a joke, a play to be laughed at, entirely fictional created on lies. It's a mechanism tied to bodily survival and nothing much more than that. You develop an ego to survive as a physical animal, but spirituality is breaking that down so that you are no longer living for survival purposes alone.

Edit: "Ego is dealt a blow...becomes loose and airy." You clearly didn't go through what Parsons went through. This whole post is one giant flattery for yourself.

Hi GP,

Old chum? Isn't that a kind of fish?

 

Anyway, I thought I would mention, since I've seen you post a few email addresses directly on the forum.

 

Posting an email address inside a topic on a forum is setting that address up to receive tons of spam.

 

Spammers have programs, like spiders or bots and other search tools that they use to continually scan the net for email addresses. Once found, the email addresses are added to lists and the newfound address receives tons of spam.

 

If you really need to post an email address in a plain body of text, on a web page or in some document on the net, you can try to disguise the email address by putting in spaces or replacing the @ with something like "X" or '<at>' etc, and then indicate to the reader what to replace (change the X to an @) etc.. Sometimes you can even put the email address in a jpg (picture), but some scanners can even read clear text in pictures. It's a big problem.

 

Thought you should be aware of this, just for the halibut. I wouldn't want to see you flounder or get in a pickeral.

 

TI

Hey! Tibetan Ice! Why don't you reply to any of my awesome replies to your posts?

Like the post on this thread and the Sadhguru post? Come on! I spent a long time writing replies to you!