Lucky7Strikes

And what is your suggestion? More warnings?

I don't think this is relevant. I rejoice in them but I know them to be makyo and not true wisdom. I do Qi Gong, Kunlun, KAP, shinkantaza, vipassana, but non of it for joy in the sense of personal pleasure. They bring happiness, bliss, etc. etc., but that is not my purpose. They are side effects, tools, notes.... It wouldn't be defeating and tragic if the world was a truly joyful place ever filled with love and wisdom. But that is not so. I am not a pessimist, but it doesn't take long for someone to see that life is filled with suffering and loss. This is the world that the blissful Self has created in its playful musings? And if I scream at it, would it be the Self screaming at itself? At its own ridiculous condition? Experiential knowledge, mystical, not namable....fine...I am fine with that. But tell me what it is and why it is. I want the Truth. . All you're saying...so you agree to my interpretations of the Self as a deterministic non-dual world where there is no individual, no choice, no enlightenment, no salvation..just a cyclical nature of Awareness separating and uniting back again? All at the whims of this Thing?

Ah I see. Did you have any backgrounds in Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, or any other philosophy in general? There is no such thing as a perfect practice. Human lives have always costed and damage has always been done in any religion, practice, organization, cult, etc.

Hi mgd, What exactly did you want to accomplish with Kunlun?

I am my consciousness/intent/potential/experience/reality. But right now, what I believe is irrelevant. I want to know to the full extent what you believe. Ok. So don't say that the nature of Self is joy. It is one fluctuating thing that creates and destroys for no reason. Look around the world and tell me otherwise. Only for the waves to rise again endlessly. A hopeless cycle. Are you sure? And if this is the Truth, the end of the road of the Brahman realization, I'd rather not stop there. I refuse to stop at this understanding. It is defeating, and personally, tragic. LUCKY!! HAHAHAHAHA. I really did laugh out loud there. I know you didn't mean it that way, but yes! Enlightenment is just for those who are lucky!! Those whose existence was meant to re merge into the blissful Self as the Self deemed them (or itself) to be.

I'm sorry about the Krishna bit. I do apologize. I respect all religions and everyone who struggles for higher truths. . I never said Dwai was wrong or that I was right. Right now I am just asking questions in regards to his beliefs. Inquiry is necessary to get around conditioning. I beat myself up with questions everyday!

AH HA! It is illusory! AND WHY IS THIS SO?? You're right I am confused! Illusion...why is there this illusion when there is a higher reality that is so real and wonderful? But then again, isn't the lower reality also a part of a higher reality??? The lower "reality" MUST BE a part of an absolute reality. Thus you call one an illusion and other THE reality. And so what creates and drives this "lower" reality? Ignorance? Ignorance of the True Self right? But who can ever be ignorant when there is no one in the first place? Again, answer me! HOW CAN I BECOME ENLIGHTENED WHEN ALL HAPPENS ACCORDING TO THE SELF?? WHEN ALL IS ALREADY THE SELF? WHERE IS THIS "I" TO DO ANYTHING? "I" COULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT THIS ILLUSION ABOUT BECAUSE THE ILLUSION IS BASED ON THE TRUE REALITY, SO HOW CAN "I" RID OF IT OR STOP IT FROM BEGINNING AGAIN? One day I will become enlightened, the next day I won't, then after that I will be evil, but then there wouldn't be an "I" would it...because it is just the absolute reality appearing as illusion only to get sucked into its "truth." An abject state of victory and defeat as God wills.

Karma...so who is this agent that chooses? Where do our choices come from except that it is all a doing of this One and All thing.? How does one realize anything when one is already an aspect of the One? How can one harmonize with the Tao when it is already all there is. Actions go against it? Oh but then that would mean there is this "you" and there is this "Tao." But that would be dualistic!! Even ignorance and separation is the Tao. No better and no worse than "merging" of any kind. So there is absolutely no point to doing anything. Or not doing anything. Doing is done by no one. The Self just is... All the suffering you see around you is inevitable. There is no hope, no purpose, and absolutely no salvation. . This is your belief? How do you like the sound of it? Do you still like Krishna driving you around in circles showing you all kinds of magic tricks?? .

Well then you can't merge with the Tao, because you are already it. It is not mysterious because it is all there is. You, I, We, This, That, are all one. Future, present, past all a play of the Tao. Note: I'm using your interpretations of the Tao, not mine. Why aren't you answering my questions on free will (I actually dislike that term, so let's go with individual choice)???

Well, He has to see how it applies to practical everyday life. NIHLIST!

There is no such thing as a non-self! So how can you drop anything????

It signifies exactly what I wrote. If this world that you see is an ever joyful and playful world, people might disagree. But it isn't. Furthermore, "you" can't see the Self as everything. Everything already IS the Self. You can't "see" anything because you are already it. You have no choice but to be it even in this very state of whatever feelings or thoughts that may arise in you. All meditative states you go through don't bring you closer to the Self, because every living moment is its manifestation. You can't get close to that which you already are. Why do "I" meditate? Hmm...so that I can get off Krishna's chariot. Clever, eh?

Nothing matters if all is One. There is no free will. There is no destination. We are all in the hands of a cynical universe that creates itself, destroys itself, causes suffering, mends suffering. There are no masters and there are no seekers. Meditation is fruitless. No you, no I, no enlightenment. Just this one giant monster separating and uniting over and over. You cannot unite with it because there is nothing but this giant creature. Joyful? I think not. There are no realized masters in this paradigm of reality. No responsibility. No karma. It is nihilism at its finest. This is why you don't know why you meditate. If you truly adhere to the universal consciousness, you must also recognize that there is no such thing as you to do anything. Compassion? Guide people? This is freedom? . Why don't you strip down your beliefs of all the fancy language and see that it contradicts how anyone experiences reality.

Well, You're right about that too. .

His methods work. He isn't fake. The most efficient teacher and the best overall system? Probably not. IMHO, moving and standing forms are just ballet when you don't change the relationship between your mind and body. That's where visualization comes in. Visualization has always been a very significant part of Taoist practice. Please do not simply rely on physical techniques. The mind and body guide each other and an imbalanced approach can be dangerous.

Recent discussions on retention, nocturnal emissions, Drew's post, and "manhood" got me going back to basic principles of Yin and Yang. These are just personal insights and speculations...not facts. Be free to disagree. . The nature of Yin is to receive and Yang is to give. The proper functioning of this relationship makes a harmonious union of the energies. Done successfully, it results in love and wholeness. The point of retention for males is to utilize externalized Yang energy to copulate with the inner Yin energy to begin the alchemy process of guiding the body into a state of fullness and bliss. However, this cannot be done with the habitual energetic patterns engendered within oneself from societal conditioning of mind and body. The principle that guides modern society is misdirected desire. Ignorant of the complementary way of Yin and Yang, men believe that their nature is to receive (this most likely comes from the inability to control the Yang energy and the fear of its rejection). Consequently, all kinds of problems and aberrant behaviors arise. Giving and receiving become desires to possess, take, and control. The females as "victims" lose their potentials to receive and nurture the Yang energy of males. Believing that they are supposed to serve and become subordinate, the compassion becomes a feeling of inadequacy, fear, self-hate, distrust, and anger. Both males and females come to repel each other instead of actualizing the union of Yin and Yang. (Evidence of this can be seen everywhere ). A true cultivator who has complete control over his/her Yin and Yang properties should be knowledgeable of both how it applies to the body and social relationships. Alchemy doesn't just happen within the body, but externally as well. Continually harboring the attitude of "taking" will remain a major obstacle to progression on the Path. Realize that the individualized body is itself a blockage. Limitless compassion brings about the natural copulation of Yin and Yang by breaking down the barriers of a self centered mind. One shouldn't scoff at virtue because it is the most important aspect of practice. .

Read through the context of how the word "end" is used. It's to note impermanence. Didn't you read the "except the enlightened mind" part? It was right in the quote. Context is very important when we talk about these things with borrowed words never meant to be used in such discussions. Intent, experience, perception, consciousness, identity, dependency...meditate on these words and see what they point to. I'd be glad to discuss whatever disagreements you have regarding anything I wrote. If you don't understand, please ask for clarification. It's ok to ask. Oh you're already in the market place? You've smashed the mirror? HAHAHAHAHAHA I hope you weren't serious. Will you drop your bag of candies to show me what Zen is? Walk out with shoes on your head? You need a beating!!!

Non-dual of Hindu tradition and Buddhist tradition seem to differ. Experience of Oneness doesn't even seem to be the ultimate Buddhist enlightenment. Not one, not two. Just relative. And according to your philosophy, no one can reach a non-dual state by his own will. Because there is no one to begin with . Just a thought here, The continuity of mindstream is the seeming continuity of existence through time. Existence is consciousness. Consciousness is experience. States of consciousness happen according to intent. And this is manifested by causes and conditions of what experience brings. The many intentions that are entangled within existence is in the form of habit energies. Various forms of clinging, attachment, delusions all arise from an endless history of ignorant views creating momentary states of consciousness. Therefore intentions and consciousness go through a cyclical pattern from creation to destruction. From Oneness to Two and so forth. Oneness is nothing more than a state. It is not the Self. It also does not continue for eternity and it never was "how it already is." There is no background. No states of consciousness is eternal or stands on its own because intentions arise dependent on the various causes and conditions it reflects. Intentless intent is still intent just as viewless view is still a view. No experience can occur without intentions materializing. Moreover, intent (or View) is clinging. And clinging, identifying, having a motive are all inseparable characteristic of existence. One cannot ever let all clingings and motives go as they say so often since it is the very nature of being. So there is this continuity of ever changing intentions rising, falling, and going through various stages of being all without a center. They may be seem permanent, just like the the notion of "I" in our daily lives, as all experiences rise within it. However, due to dependence and the ever fluctuating nature of phoenomena, all views, states, and identifications, will come to an end (except for the perfectly enlightened mind). This is why you have to turn the mirror around, smash it. But most importantly, You must go into the marketplace! .

Many Taoists would disagree. One shouldn't just rely on Lao Tzu to study what Taoism is. None of what you wrote about samsara hold any meaning. Yes, meditate, but also know that whatever you do, be it for joy, ultimate bliss, etc. is no better or worse than any other action you observe in this world. Why think of all this? Why not think of all this? One way or another, all is the play of Consciousness. Let me get this right. The Self projects out a Universe filled with suffering. But its nature is joy? Or if all is the projection and of the Self, who is there to be happy or sad? Who can do anything? How can "they"'ve forgtten, when all things happen according to a divine plan. There can "be" no one except this Self. No choice, no direction, no purpose. I'm just pointing out some inconsistencies and noticeable uncertainties in your posts. .

I've noticed that in a few threads this topic has come up: Utilizing drugs for cultivation. Someone notified me the possibility that even the Buddha was using.... The Shamans have a long history of using hallucinogens and such for spiritual experiences. At times they can be therapeutic, but other times not so. What ya'll think?

Te is virtue. http://www.taowizard.com/de_te.php Haha, thanks Stig for the site. Intuitive knowledge can be as wrong and rational knowledge. Equating the Self/Tao/Shunyata/etc. because they point to a "mystical state" is, well how many mystical states are there? Too many to count. You started the thread. This is the limit of Advaita non-dual philosophy. You are just acting under compulsion without knowing why except that it makes you feel happy. Maybe you even feel better than others because you believe that your mode of pleasure is spiritual and nobler. That it is "joy." In the end, whatever your achievements are don't mean anything. They are all just the mighty play of the grand Consciousness separating, unititing, suffering, being, on and on. Do you see a problem with this teaching? I cetainly do. Going beyond duality can mean many things. It can mean going brain dead too. But it can also mean being a great sage. Or a Buddha. "You can't talk about it" doesn't mean they are talking about one thing. The Self, Brahman, the Eagle are all nouns. The Tao can be a noun, but is more of a verb/adverb. And Shunyata is an adjective. See into how these terms are used and you can see a difference. I don't see the universe filled with joy overflowing. The Self then must be a cynical fella. I absolutely don't know whether the Buddhist pradigm is more true than Advaita's. But they are certainly different. You have pointed out before that you were brought up under Advaita and have strong connections to it. But why not for once consider that it can be wrong? Be like goldisheavy a bit (but please, not too much).

Oops. No, I'm sorry if you read it that way. I thought it great that you kept questioning beyond. You will run into a lot of these people these days and they do a very convincing job of telling others what this experience entails. They think they are a hand of God and whatever they do will not matter. But really it's like tripping over a rock and going "I am under the control of this rock!" Personally, I fell into the trap many times, mostly because they use a lot of flowery words and words from scriptures that do not carry the same context . They really just want motherly love. .

Endless compassion that arises from recognizing the inherent emptiness of all phoenomea. An enlightened being understands the Universe throughly and acts accordingly in order to deliver everyone from suffering. Yet non of these concepts occur to the enlightened being and there is no longer any trace of doubt or dual-perspective. He/she is wu-wei, effortless, and harmonizes everything into this state of blissful union. I don't know how to tell who is enlightened. It might as well be that poor beggar women who passed by and arose great compassion in you. .

O.