S:C

this is a method. it’s a bit similar to classic logic. usually one would cite their sources/lineage/teacher. you can avoid that, if you use precision in the method, that means explaining your words and use extremely concise language. the further trouble is that everyone involved will have to deal with a translation problem in at least three languages (Chinese, English, Native). So yea it’s probably pointless even with a disciplined method. with you I don’t even recognize a pattern, let alone a method. this is why it is pointless for me to go on communicating with you. (just think of the poor fish going upstream and being fried! 🐠🐟🐡 -> 🍣)

No you don’t. Not to me at least. Your methods doesn’t meet my standards. If you (and others) would follow this method with discipline, contradictions and different opinions would become more obvious. But you don’t. You don’t even state your premises clearly and the definitions and sources you use are opaque at best. Fish beware to not be grilled ! Peace. 🐠

You will still have the secrecy problem, as members will often not want to state where they belong to. Every teacher has a right to be left alone. Something that could help, would be an obligatory entry for a poster, containing : stating what in their opinion is the subject and the goal of the practice (premise), then define the basic ingredients (framework, reference, contents), name the old chinese characters and their English translations thereof. Then who wishes may be able to ‘re-translate’ the meaning, e.g.according to XYZ 命 [= Ming, means 1. breathwork only in the context of CDE 2. grilling the fish that has a wanting to go upstream, in the context of old daoist fables] Might be long and wary, but so at least one has a chance at understanding each other (tower of babel problem) and words are not empty vessels or carry an unintended message downstream. Else someone might unintentionally pass something like ‘severe punishment’ in the wording of ‘unconditional love’ and tries to connect it to e.g. 靈. No way to guarantee a beneficial meaning, but at least for the reader it becomes more obvious, what in the minds eye of someone is going on, (e.g. it is ND according to CD, so to me it’s ChiDragoning, not Neidan in the thus-thus school, or the like, no offence…, CD!) Thus like minded people could easier connect and also students with teachers. If both want to and see potential.

Conductor clashing

Do we know for sure that we can rely on the interpretation of someone who was not a direct eye witness nor a recognized student? How do we know the authority of the state and church did not again influence and water down the focus of the teaching to fit their narrative?!

then why aren‘t you communicating?

where do you draw the line? names, morals - have words a morale of their own!? too much words, but sometimes they are needed, when the compass isn‘t aligned. then they should at least mirror the substance they carry, no?

Meanwhile I think Chi Dragon might actually be teaching.... but teaching us a different lesson than he is claiming to be.... Words are vases? Did Wittgenstein bring you here, Chi Dragon? Trying to do another Rectification of names ?

to someone doesn't mean one is being payed for it. so no accusations in that direction on my behalf. anyways, they are everywhere. If you observe closely, I didn't criticize his opinion, but his intention in the OP. He endorses the student while explaining that he isn't sure about the quality of the knowledge shared, while his mind is yet unclear about it. No trouble with expressing opinions, perceptions or values. But teaching lifestyle ethics - to those in need - while not being sure about the quality - seems to me the equivalent to a kid at the gas station playing with a fire lighter near to the gasoline puddle. But that is just my prejudiced opinion, and yeah... sharing opinion and "teaching" might be quite close to each other... - it differs, when one claims 'authority' or tries to change behavior of others, while profiting thereof, I'd say. In my culture, every teacher who confesses he is exploring the concept in the moment just while and when he is teaching on life subjects, while he had no endorsement to teach in that area and no depths of source and security in the tradition, clarity and proven proficiency, - would (yet) not be called a teacher. But even my culture changes. words are vases. who am I to teach? BUT maybe we can get back to topic... the cauldron the bellows the force field the inner fields the entrance the nowayout ...

It is serious but I often am overreacting.

Do you realize you are doing the agitation and propaganda section of any modern (e.g. anti-cultural) and authoritarian party (think: CPC / CCP e.g.) a favor with spreading even more confusion and distortions about and thereby further destroying wisdom of the old? Word Wizards, are you doing any good?! If you want to share something you experience, why not share that in simple words of your own? Maybe at some time, someone comments on your experience/perception resembling something known in cultural phenomena of old wisdom?

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The question is, can you still call it a ‘pretzel’ if most of its substantial properties have been exchanged to others and only the resemblance of the form remains? Maybe we should differentiate between the traditional (Brezel, italian) and the consumerist/modern (Pretzel, American), to not have any misunderstandings come up? Words as empty vases. How can anyone ever be sure, the words and concepts sold to him/her/it in meaning and explanation are authentic / solid? If they aren’t? If you look at Edward Arthur Blair and ‘newspeak’ - in the modern world you might be sold something for something else entirely! Try religion, worldview or even concepts as love or enlightenment or death or spirits! So even if I here this is in the abrahamic section, just like other religions/worldviews, - at the basis of storytelling/fables/parables and myths, there is an interpretation of gnosis or perception of world/other/self. Just if there isn’t or it cannot be seen or felt anymore, - to me it’s fake. ?! What is your take on this? When do you realize the essence (and all hope) is lost and the path a dead end? … but then again, there’s people who point out to the sacred in the most profane, so there still might be hope for Jona, whales, reptiles & the like. merry christmas, everyone ✨