Khun Paen

What is the commonly accepted location? I see some teachers that say it's directly behind the belly button. And other teachers put it 2-3 finger widths below the belly button, directly behind the lower dantian

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

The above says 1.5 cun. 

Unfortunately, I don't understand what you mean by "behind the middle finger or below it."   

I mean, when you take the index finger, and middle finger, and put them under the belly button to measure 1.5 cun. Do you focus into the stomach exactly at the level where your middle finger is touching. Or, do you take the index finger of your other hand, put it under the middle finger, and focus into the stomach there instead. I've seen acupuncture videos measuring 1.5 cun both of these ways. 

On 12/2/2023 at 11:20 AM, Taomeow said:

On the surface of the body, the LDT corresponds to the 氣海 REN 6 (Qihai) or Sea of Qi acupoint, which is located 1.5 body units (cun) below the navel.  Cun is one's personal unit of measurement -- all bodies are different but all bodies are fractals, so your cun may be different from mine, but you can easily determine yours.  Most "average" bodies will have approximately similar average cun values  but someone short or taller than "average" (whatever that means) might do better not relying on inches or centimeters offered by various "approximators" and finding the actual point on his or her actual body.  Precision matters more in acupuncture of course, dantiens don't need to be located within millimeters, so a rough idea of where your very own "1.5 cun below the navel" is  should suffice.

   

 

At the back of the body, 命門 Du 4 Mingmen or Gate of Life point is located exactly opposite your LDT.  Of course neither one is merely a point on the surface, it's more like a vortex connecting the two.  

 

is 1.5 cun behind the middle finger, or below it? Because behind the middle finger for me is only one inch. And I rarely see the lower dantian described as being one inch below the navel. I mostly see 1.5 or 2 inches below

On 1/3/2024 at 2:45 PM, ChiDragon said:

It seems to me the use of language in describing the datian, here, is not very appropriate for the following reasons.
1. The lower dantian is already existed below the navel.
2. Dantian is not to be cultivated but to be used for cultivation by Chi Kung.
3. The purpose of dantian is to have an aiding tool for building energy rather than losing energy. So to speak!

IMMHO There are lots of masters do not know what dantian is all about but just make up some stories to satisfy someone's question.

Yup, some teachers teach the dantian is already there. Other teachers like adam mizner say it doesn't exist before you create it

On 1/3/2024 at 12:05 PM, salaam123 said:

 I thought that ming men was opposite the navel, not qi hai/ren6

Some people put the lower dantian at the navel level, and ming men at the navel level. Some put the lower dantian below the navel, and the ming men at the navel level above the dantian. Some people put the lower dantian below the navel, and the ming men below the navel too at ren6. Confused yet?

On 12/26/2023 at 7:31 PM, senseless virtue said:

You should read my previous post in this thread. Building dantian closer to sexual organs increases libido and the chance of having sexual thoughts. This can lead to energy loss if discipline isn't good enough.

Ya I read that. But I thought it was just in the context of focusing on the lower dantian at the perineum. Not just 2-3 finger widths below the navel. Anyways, interesting idea. 

After talking to a few teachers in Zhineng (arguably one of the most popular qigong styles in China) there seems to be the idea that you can cultivate the lower dantian at the navel, or below it. However, building the dantian below the navel causes an energy loss. So that's Dr Pang Mings logic behind building it at the navel center. Has anyone ever heard of this idea anywhere else?

There can't be a society with truth, and no lies, because truth creates lies. Opposites come together and can't be separated. 

If you like desire, then Buddhism is the perfect religion for you

Yellow Tara will help you get rich

Red Tara/Phra Ngang will bring you hot girls

White Tara will help you be healthy, and live a long life

Green Tara will remove your anxiety (xanax)

Manjushri will increase your IQ, and help with your studies

Vajrapani will give you physical strength, and the power to command other people

And the list goes on

Anything you desire, Buddhism has a mantra for it. Visualize the deity in your lower dantian while you chant. The better your concentration/samadhi, the more effective it will be. 

On 11/28/2023 at 3:18 PM, Sahaja said:

Seems there is lot of focus on the height but my understanding is there is more mistake made on the depth of it. people get mixed up by sensitivity of ren 6 Qi hai and are too close to the surface of the skin in centering their attention - based on my experience it should be about at the level of ren 6  (roughly 2 finger widths below bb) but in the physical center of body on a direct line between the hui yin (perineum) and bai hai (top of the head). 

 

yoga has different centers but I would say the kanda is the closest in location to ldt. Kanda is the center point for all the nadis in the body and is quite energetic so if you are slightly off the ldt you are still in good company. Also some marmas, chakras and adharas in the neighborhood. Very energetic area (not to mention the energy of the kua which is nearby and can also be quite pronounced)

 

my understanding is that accupuncture points are helpful guides  but are built for needles (so are small).  Points and lines from an energetic experiential perspective  can be and often are bigger and wider so people’s somatic experience will differ. 

In Zhineng, the lower dantian is behind the navel, in the center of the body, on the taiji pole. Not toward the front like most descriptions explain it. I've also never understood why so many people teach it so close to the front of the stomach, like two finger widths behind the skin. Seems like a waste not killing two birds with one stone by visualizing it on the central channel. 

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

From an acupuncture point of view it lies at Ren 6 which is a little below the navel. 

Some acupuncturists put it at Ren 6 (sea of Qi). Some put it at Ren 4 (Guanyuan). And then others like the acupuncturist/TCM doctor below put it directly behind the navel. And say ren4/6 are wrong lol. 

I'm researching different lineages/teachers that put the lower dantian at the navel level, instead of below it. 

So far I've seen

Zhineng

Spring forest qigong

Mantak Chia

The Chinese Chan monk Hsuan Hua, that founded the city of ten thousand Buddhas

Alex Hui. A Chinese medicine doctor on Youtube. 

Anyone know any others I can add to the list? Thanks

So I just started learning this Qigong style. And all the teachers in this lineage teach the lower dantian behind the navel (not below) directly on the taiji pole. Does anyone have any quotes from Dr Pang Ming about why he chose the navel as the lower dantian instead of below it? More and more teachers/chinese medicine doctors seem to be putting the dantian at the navel these days. Curious why

Yo, whatsup guys. I did a retreat at a dhammakaya temple once. And I've learned from a few monks in the tradition. Basically, you visualize a shining sun, crystal clear sphere, or buddha image two finger widths above the navel, directly on the taiji pole. (not toward the spine, or front of the stomach, but directly in the center). Anyways, I've been a Buddhist for around 11 years now. I've practiced basically every single meditation technique in Buddhism. And this was the only technique I've ever practiced that gave me so much bliss. And in such a short period of time. When I started doing this technique, only after about 2 weeks I activated an immense bliss that radiated directly out of the spot two finger widths above my navel. It was like I just did heroin lol. It was incredible. And it wasn't from samadhi. My concentration wasn't that good. It was just from activating this spot. 

I don't think that it's the lower dantian. I haven't experienced anything like this from the dantian. And dhammakaya meditators usually describe seeing Buddha images, or Buddhist stuff, radiating from this center. Haven't heard anyone say that about the lower dantian. The founder Phramongkolthepmuni did say once it's the spot where the breath enters into from the two side channels, similar to the lower dantian. But I think whichever spot you focus on in the body, if you focus there long enough, you'll feel the breath energy going in and out of it. Not sure though. I've always been curious if it's creating the lower dantian at a different spot. I actually want to restart the discussion on this topic. Because this is the most powerful technique in Theravada Buddhism. When you stay at a dhammakaya temple, it's really common to hear lay people that only meditate 20 minutes a day talking about wild experiences they have while doing this technique. The results are incredibly fast. Anyone know any Taoist sects that talk about a spot two finger widths above the navel? 

Can I have my name changed to Khun Paen? Thanks

Hey. Nice to meet everyone. Just signed up to ask a question on the general forum, about an energetical imbalance. Have to make a post here first