interpaul

22 hours ago, wandelaar said:

See pages 1 & 2 of this book:

 

https://books.google.nl/books?id=cJfm_FO_TEAC

Thanks I took a look at this and it makes sense.  It does suggest using an online I Ching approach is likely a bad idea for the reason it doesn't take it very seriously.  I've bought a handbook and one of the original texts to study and do l like the idea noted about opening up different perspectives.  

I've recently been exploring the use of the I Ching to see the relevance of this ancient text in modern times.  I have found some answers very interesting and others off topic.  As I step back from this I wonder if the books primary success comes from creating an alternative reading experience.  It's like reading the bible in random bits over a year.  The exposure to the text, even out of sequence, still communicates the messages. Although a part of me wants to be open to the divining power of the text, it is hard as a modern person to completely shut off the scientific mind.  Curious how many folks on this forum have used this text and how you use this ancient text.  Do you ignore messages that don't seem in alignment with what you were hoping to read?

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

Hi Interpaul,

 

As I reflect more, I think I was searching for healing, as much as I was searching for the feelings of energy.  Things began to change when I finally found someone who had the ability to show me how to use energy practices to actually heal and clear my "junk" so to speak.

 

We want to feel the energy to feel good, of course! but this also means that we do not feel good normally ... so there is something there that needs to release.  The problem is when it doesn't get released, and we chase after .... well ... anything ... in this case energy.... in an attempt to feel better. 

 

I would say keep going with your practices.  But know that the greatest energy flows are when your totally in the present moment and relaxed.  You can literally feel those orgasmic flows at any time, so long as your not grasping at anything or pushing anything away. To stay fully present is quite blissful, and this is the aim of my practice at this point. 

 

Best of both worlds... strong energy flows and no more needing to do anything other than what I'm doing now... I can feel them flowing under the surface all the time, or if I tune in they will get very strong.

 

 

 

Fa Xin,  Thanks.  I know what you are pointing to.  I do feel the most energy when it isn't forced.  I also do sense the energy within when I am calm and in the moment.  I do find this practice gives me great hope when I am struggling with stress in my life.  Unfortunately those are the times it is more forced and probably not the best energy.  There are a lot of good lessons I am learning in these practices.  I will be meeting with a respected taoist teacher in a few weeks and hope to get some additional guidance.  I do feel I am searching more for healing than intense experiences but find it hard to resist pleasurable experiences when they happen spontaneously.

20 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

While this is true, it's possible to try and "chase" this feeling, which would negate the "natural" part and the "being" part. 

 

I've been there, "needing" to do a practice before I start my day.  Needing to do more because I'm "getting used to it".  Catching 5 minutes between classes to get that blissful hit of energy.

 

It became an attachment for me, a crutch... which kept me suppressed for a time.  Eventually it fell away and when it did it was quite liberating.

Fa Xin,  I can definitely see the trap of chasing this energy.  Last night I was wanting to see where this was going and as I stayed in that place it built up to almost orgasmic type of feelings.  It then resulted in a couple hours of insomnia.  Curious how long it was a crutch for you and how you let go and where it took you. 

22 hours ago, Everything said:

I am so glad I am not alone. And your words are very inspiring. It feels so reliefing to allow your own energy to flow finally for the first time. And how unexpected good that always feels. For meditation will always seem too easy to be true. You literally have to do nothing in order to allow your energy to flow. And benefit your entire life. 

Ok Everything, I am going to push back just a little.  Last night I did the microcosmic orbit for about a half hour while I was falling asleep.  I focused the energy to see where it might go and it took on a feeling very similar to orgasmic energy but it just circulated in my body.  Not complaining but it resulted in a couple hours of insomnia with surges of intense energy.    It does make me wonder about the neurochemistry of this activation of pleasure centers.  Other intense pleasurable experiences often lead to a surge in dopamine with resultant down regulation of the dopamine receptors in the brain with the long term effect of causing reduced pleasure in other areas of life.  This has been reported in overuse of drugs, alcohol and pornography.  Have you experienced this type of pleasure from meditation and have you found it is sustainable without causing long term emotional problems?  

On 10/29/2018 at 11:41 AM, Miffymog said:

If your greatest aims, goals, desires and activities lay outside of your practice, then you're not getting overly attached to it. But if it starts to become the most important thing in your life, then you need to be slightly careful.

 

 

This gives me energy to do all the other stuff in my life and is part of a transmutation practice I am exploring. My only concern is I've found most pleasurable things in life tend to have an addictive risk if done in excess.  Many of the Taoist enthusiasts online seem to promote these practices and encourage going deep into them, sort of along the lines of the comments above from Cheshire cat.  This seems so safe as it is just breathing and visualization (e.g. no abuse of any senses).  I've been reading the Tao te Ching lately and it seems to point more to a middle path, not one of excess, But I find the Tao very mysterious and open to interpretation.  I still live in the world of duality and strive to avoid missteps on this spiritual path.  

6 hours ago, rex said:

Sounds really positive - especially as it appears to be spontaneous and not contrived.

Not sure what you mean by spontaneous and not contrived.  This type of meditation is intentional but the energy generated is spontaneous and wasn't expected. If that is what you are referring to I appreciate that insight.  

On 10/29/2018 at 1:17 PM, Cheshire Cat said:

The microcosmic orbit meditation generates transcendental positive energy or Qi within the body.  There's a tremendous value in the practice of contemplative absorption which leads to greater and greater spiritual gifts.  Although this meditation generates pleasurable sensations it's not a form of attachment because the Dao is the way of spontaneous non-action in activity: if attachments arise because of microcosmic orbit meditation, it will pass by itself at the proper time because of this same microcosmic orbit meditation.

Thanks for these encouraging words.  Have you been practicing this for a long time?  I found out about this stuff from reading Mantak Chia's books on Taoist sexual practices.  He kept warning about the risks of doing the other practices without a foundation of the MCO.  I finally decided to take that seriously and found the MCO even more powerful for focus and generating energy than the sexual practices.  It seems almost too good to be true to breath and circulate energy like this without a downside. 

I have been practicing the microcosmic orbit meditation for a few months and find it generates a lot of positive energy within my body.  I hear again and again the value of meditation.  Given the pleasurable sensations this particular meditation generates I wonder if this practice could ultimately be just another form of attachment, one that is best to release.  Curious the groups take on this.

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Its a thin line to walk, sexual stuff with spiritual stuff can be confusing. Very confusing. 

 

I’ll give you my own thoughts on the matter:

 

Self control is good. I find if I take breaks from sexual releasing, my energy goes up and I feel strong. It’s good. But there comes a point where the urge is incredibly strong... and at that point, the distractions it causes and mental struggle is simply not worth it. Release and move on. This is the balance part I was talking about. Forcing it and trying to hold onto the energy is just as bad as using it up IMO. 

 

 

 

The more I've tried to explore this path the  more my experiences follow what you outline.  The prior path of releasing hasn't always been healthy for me either as there's a sense of it never being enough.  That is what has forced me to explore alternatives.  

 

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Reproduction is just the casting off of excess into another being.

 

Eating and Sexual Function are linked.

 

So to control and refine eating will produce sexual control too.

 

Then you do not need so much work to put this excess energy here, or there, or sublimate - why have it at all?

 

Better to understand the balance between the individual and the environment, and that "food" is the most concentrated form of the environment that we are taking in. 

 

An interesting point.  I don't know that my wife would like the sentiment of"casting off of excess into another being."  I'd be interested in hearing how this practice plays out for you.  Are you a vegetarian?  Do you have a specific diet that you feel creates balance for you?  

 

-VonKrankenhaus

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Sexual energy is natural. It’s where it’s directed that’s important. Pushing against anything seems contrary to the Tao, as the Tao (as I interpret it) is about moving WITH the flow.

I am trying to explore that as an option.  Since I came to trying this practice after someone recommended this Taoist practice it's only recently that I've come to question if it is truly in alignment with the Tao.

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Sexual energy is natural. It’s where it’s directed that’s important. Pushing against anything seems contrary to the Tao, as the Tao (as I interpret it) is about moving WITH the flow.

I only became aware of the semen retention practices after discovering these practices as a recommendation from a Taoist.

On 9/28/2018 at 2:36 PM, vonkrankenhaus said:

"Is semen retention aligned with the Tao"?

 

If the first semen was retained, who would be asking?

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

True.  The question is does this fit with a practice, after the procreative years, that is balanced.  It seems semen retention at its core is about pushing against the momentum of the expression of sexual energy.  So far I haven't found the ability to truly channel those energies in a way that feels balanced and sustainable. 

On 9/28/2018 at 2:11 PM, Fa Xin said:

I always thought The Daodejing suggested a balance of all things. 

It does seem to but the intense energy needed to push against release of sexual energy seems contrary to the Tao.  The teachings of Mantak Chia seem to point to a place where you can have your cake and eat it to.   

3 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Hi Interpaul!

 

What aspect of Taoism are you struggling with?

 

-Lost in Translation

Thanks for asking. I came to Taoism after experiencing a kundalini type awakening while practicing semen retention. Someone suggested books by Mantak Chia. I know there are a lot of folks here who feel his practices are dangerous. I’ve enjoyed becoming more aware of my chi. My biggest question at present relates to whether semen retention is in alignment with Taoist practices. After 3 weeks of semen retention I experienced intense energy in my body during meditation. I felt an ejaculation coming on and attempted some of the practices to direct the energy up to the crown as well as contracting the PC muscles but ejavulated anyway. It didn’t feel satisfying, I lost weeks of retention effort and wondered if the practice was ultimately contrary to the Tao and unhealthy 

1 hour ago, s1va said:

Welcome interpaul!  In my experience it is the struggles that invariably made me introspect and find the way ahead.  

 

Look forward to hearing more from you in the discussions!

Thanks.  I tell my friends my wife is a master teacher as thru our struggles I am learning a lot about myself

19 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Hi interpaul.  Welcome.

 

Yes, this is a good place to seek guidance.  But take care regarding presenting too much personal information.  There are people on this planet who will use the information against you.

 

 

Good advice, thanks!

20 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Hello, Interpaul, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome interpaul,

 

Hope you enjoy the forum. I think it’s a nice place to share and learn. 

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

Thank you!

8 hours ago, dosa said:

I think that’s the right correlation
We cannot pet anything much without doing it mischief. 

 

I'm confused by your response. Are you saying semen retention is correlated with spiritual growth? My question is about whether semen retention is an unnatural retaining of the vital energy.  I assume your second sentence refers to masturbation as the problem.  If you are in support of the practice of semen retention do you feel it aligns with the principles of Taoism?  

I've read a lot online about the practice of semen retention as a tool for enhancing spiritual growth. I wonder if this practice of retaining sexual energy is contrary to Taoist principles as it seems like an unnatural channeling of energy.  

I am new to Taoism.  I've always been interested in it but never looked deeply into until some marital struggles have forced me to look deeply into many aspects of my life.    Hoping this will be a good forum to share ideas and learn.